Re: Student Loans

by **Cameron** 2024-04-24, 09:53

I don't feel that I have been wronged by this guy getting his loan forgiven. Doesn't seem to have cost me anything, and has resulted in a net increase in the amount of happiness in the world. Uniformly positive development, in my estimation.

by **Cameron** 2024-04-24, 09:53

TravelinMan wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
I think one of the differences between me and republicans/libertarians is that, if that given the choice of providing relief to Wall Street or regular folks, I'll choose regular folks 100% of the time.

I know nothing you say here should be taken seriously, but this is a perfect example of your misunderstanding of libertarian view points.

Democrats would give the money to our music boy in the article.

Republicans would give the money to Wall Street

Libertarians wouldn't give the money to anyone.

Nobody was given any money.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-04-24, 09:56

TravelinMan wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
I think one of the differences between me and republicans/libertarians is that, if that given the choice of providing relief to Wall Street or regular folks, I'll choose regular folks 100% of the time.

I know nothing you say here should be taken seriously, but this is a perfect example of your misunderstanding of libertarian view points.

Democrats would give the money to our music boy in the article.

Republicans would give the money to Wall Street

Libertarians wouldn't give the money to anyone.

which is why I'll never be confused with a republican/libertarian.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-04-24, 09:57

Cameron wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

I know nothing you say here should be taken seriously, but this is a perfect example of your misunderstanding of libertarian view points.

Democrats would give the money to our music boy in the article.

Republicans would give the money to Wall Street

Libertarians wouldn't give the money to anyone.

Nobody was given any money.

you're not gonna argue with a republican/libertarian, are you?

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-04-24, 09:59

Cameron wrote:I don't feel that I have been wronged by this guy getting his loan forgiven. Doesn't seem to have cost me anything, and has resulted in a net increase in the amount of happiness in the world. Uniformly positive development, in my estimation.

it's weird that the same people who choose guns over children are also upset when something genuinely good happens to someone.

they are an odd bunch.. and reminds me why I don't need to include folks like that in my life. So I'm thankful for that.

by TravelinMan 2024-04-24, 10:06

Cameron wrote:I don't feel that I have been wronged by this guy getting his loan forgiven. Doesn't seem to have cost me anything, and has resulted in a net increase in the amount of happiness in the world. Uniformly positive development, in my estimation.

It didn't cost you anything? Oh you sweet summer child.

by TravelinMan 2024-04-24, 10:06

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Cameron wrote:I don't feel that I have been wronged by this guy getting his loan forgiven. Doesn't seem to have cost me anything, and has resulted in a net increase in the amount of happiness in the world. Uniformly positive development, in my estimation.
it's weird that the same people who choose guns over children are also upset when something genuinely good happens to someone.

they are an odd bunch.. and reminds me why I don't need to include folks like that in my life. So I'm thankful for that.

To be fair, I'd choose a kick in the shins over children. Not a fan.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-04-24, 10:24

TravelinMan wrote:
Cameron wrote:I don't feel that I have been wronged by this guy getting his loan forgiven. Doesn't seem to have cost me anything, and has resulted in a net increase in the amount of happiness in the world. Uniformly positive development, in my estimation.

It didn't cost you anything? Oh you sweet summer child.

Oh, come on now. I thought all your Libertarian types were all in on revenue reductions (tax cuts) don't cause federal deficits.

by TravelinMan 2024-04-24, 10:25

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

It didn't cost you anything? Oh you sweet summer child.

Oh, come on now. I thought all your Libertarian types were all in on revenue reductions (tax cuts) don't cause federal deficits.

Never heard of that. I'd ask you to cite a source, but that didn't work out so well last time, so I'm just gonna glide on this one.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-04-24, 10:25

TravelinMan wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote: it's weird that the same people who choose guns over children are also upset when something genuinely good happens to someone.

they are an odd bunch.. and reminds me why I don't need to include folks like that in my life. So I'm thankful for that.

To be fair, I'd choose a kick in the shins over children. Not a fan.

The are sort of important to your lifestyle, regardless of if they are yours, your neighbors, or we import them from south of the boarder.

by TravelinMan 2024-04-24, 10:26

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

To be fair, I'd choose a kick in the shins over children. Not a fan.

The are sort of important to your lifestyle, regardless of if they are yours, your neighbors, or we import them from south of the boarder.

If "Important" = "a nuisance?" Then yes, I agree with you.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-04-24, 10:28

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Oh, come on now. I thought all your Libertarian types were all in on revenue reductions (tax cuts) don't cause federal deficits.

Never heard of that. I'd ask you to cite a source, but that didn't work out so well last time, so I'm just gonna glide on this one.

Since I am at home I'll give you one.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/gop-tax-cuts-federal-deficits/

BTW you have a terrible memory when it comes to these economic type discussions.

edit - For those of us, not you of course, who live in the real world, yes revenue cuts, such as tax cuts or loan forgiveness for PPA loans or student loans do add to the deficit. The additional money, if it is given the right part of the population, may offset the cuts with higher tax revenues, but that is not a sure thing, because, as we have seen, the corporations at the top of the food chain become greedy and cause greedflation, reducing the effect of money in the hands of the 99%.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2024-04-24, 10:28

The world needs music experts too. It really does. Would we prefer to live in a world that where everyone is a doctor lawyer engineer or banker and all art is lost? Assuming not, the people that choose to live that life knowing they’ll never be showered with riches for it shouldn’t be stricken penniless either.

by TravelinMan 2024-04-24, 10:33

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Never heard of that. I'd ask you to cite a source, but that didn't work out so well last time, so I'm just gonna glide on this one.

Since I am at home I'll give you one.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/gop-tax-cuts-federal-deficits/

BTW you have a terrible memory when it comes to these economic type discussions.

I didn't see the word "libertarian" in that entire article. Lots of blame for the GOP, which is warranted. And a fond remembrance for when Democrats actually cared about the deficit. But what that all has to do with libertarians is beyond me.

by TravelinMan 2024-04-24, 10:33

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:The world needs music experts too. It really does. Would we prefer to live in a world that where everyone is a doctor lawyer engineer or banker and all art is lost? Assuming not, the people that choose to live that life knowing they’ll never be showered with riches for it shouldn’t be stricken penniless either.

Couldn't we find some cheaper ones?

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-04-24, 10:40

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Since I am at home I'll give you one.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/gop-tax-cuts-federal-deficits/

BTW you have a terrible memory when it comes to these economic type discussions.

I didn't see the word "libertarian" in that entire article. Lots of blame for the GOP, which is warranted. And a fond remembrance for when Democrats actually cared about the deficit. But what that all has to do with libertarians is beyond me.

I'm with Bob on this one, plus with Thom Hartman.

Anyone who professes to be a supporter of the Libertarians today is most likely a Republican running away from Trump. (Bob)

In addition, the US Libertarian Party was created as a grifting scam by Milton Friedman to create support for tax actions that the real estate brokers wanted to occur (Thom Hartman)

If you want to go back to the origan of Libertarianism, 18th century France, that is a different thing, however those Liberations believed in government ownership of all capital. Somehow, I don't think you are there.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2024-04-24, 10:42

TravelinMan wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:The world needs music experts too. It really does. Would we prefer to live in a world that where everyone is a doctor lawyer engineer or banker and all art is lost? Assuming not, the people that choose to live that life knowing they’ll never be showered with riches for it shouldn’t be stricken penniless either.

Couldn't we find some cheaper ones?

Lolololol that’s so funny but no actually that’s how much getting a PhD is going to cost so we have to fix that too

by **DWags** 2024-04-24, 10:44

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:The world needs music experts too. It really does. Would we prefer to live in a world that where everyone is a doctor lawyer engineer or banker and all art is lost? Assuming not, the people that choose to live that life knowing they’ll never be showered with riches for it shouldn’t be stricken penniless either.

I think the proof we need, is in the fact that the monkees Are still not inducted into the rock ‘n’ roll Hall of Fame. We definitely need more music experts in the world

by **Floyd Robertson** 2024-04-24, 10:47

DWags wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:The world needs music experts too. It really does. Would we prefer to live in a world that where everyone is a doctor lawyer engineer or banker and all art is lost? Assuming not, the people that choose to live that life knowing they’ll never be showered with riches for it shouldn’t be stricken penniless either.

I think the proof we need, is in the fact that the monkees Are still not inducted into the rock ‘n’ roll Hall of Fame. We definitely need more music experts in the world

I'm a believer.

by TravelinMan 2024-04-24, 10:47

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Couldn't we find some cheaper ones?

Lolololol that’s so funny but no actually that’s how much getting a PhD is going to cost so we have to fix that too

If it costs $250K for a PhD, then we should attack the root cause, not pay off nerd's debts.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-04-24, 10:49

TravelinMan wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote: it's weird that the same people who choose guns over children are also upset when something genuinely good happens to someone.

they are an odd bunch.. and reminds me why I don't need to include folks like that in my life. So I'm thankful for that.

To be fair, I'd choose a kick in the shins over children. Not a fan.

well you're in the right political party.

by **Jake from State Farm** 2024-04-24, 10:49

TravelinMan wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Lolololol that’s so funny but no actually that’s how much getting a PhD is going to cost so we have to fix that too

If it costs $250K for a PhD, then we should attack the root cause, not pay off nerd's debts.

While we're at it, can we also attack the root cause of why medical treatments in this country are so out of control?

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-04-24, 10:52

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

I didn't see the word "libertarian" in that entire article. Lots of blame for the GOP, which is warranted. And a fond remembrance for when Democrats actually cared about the deficit. But what that all has to do with libertarians is beyond me.

I'm with Bob on this one, plus with Thom Hartman.

Anyone who professes to be a supporter of the Libertarians today is most likely a Republican running away from Trump. (Bob)

and they're only "running away" from the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator and convicted rapist in public.. we all know who they support on the ballot.

at least with the MAGA patriots, they proclaim their stupidity, racism, bigotry and misogyny proudly. Libertarians pretend to be intellectually nuanced and enlightened but anyone with a 4th grade reading level can see right through it.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-04-24, 10:52

TravelinMan wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:The world needs music experts too. It really does. Would we prefer to live in a world that where everyone is a doctor lawyer engineer or banker and all art is lost? Assuming not, the people that choose to live that life knowing they’ll never be showered with riches for it shouldn’t be stricken penniless either.

Couldn't we find some cheaper ones?

A top-level musician, or the education of those trying to be that, is as much a professional athlete as a top major league pitcher, or a top NFL QB. It requires as much muscle memory and control. To create one is expensive. The top ones, just like sports, are a combination of innate ability (talent) and intense training.

It probably doesn't get cheaper.

by TravelinMan 2024-04-24, 10:53

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

I didn't see the word "libertarian" in that entire article. Lots of blame for the GOP, which is warranted. And a fond remembrance for when Democrats actually cared about the deficit. But what that all has to do with libertarians is beyond me.

I'm with Bob on this one, plus with Thom Hartman.

Anyone who professes to be a supporter of the Libertarians today is most likely a Republican running away from Trump. (Bob)

In addition, the US Libertarian Party was created as a grifting scam by Milton Friedman to create support for tax actions that the real estate brokers wanted to occur (Thom Hartman)

If you want to go back to the origan of Libertarianism, 18th century France, that is a different thing, however those Liberations believed in government ownership of all capital. Somehow, I don't think you are there.

Well that's just ignorant. Congrats on being on Bob's level of credibility.

But if you really believe that in the late 80's I had foreseen the rise of Trump and decided to label myself a libertarian to temporarily distance myself from Republicans, then.... thank you? I think?

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2024-04-24, 10:54

TravelinMan wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Lolololol that’s so funny but no actually that’s how much getting a PhD is going to cost so we have to fix that too

If it costs $250K for a PhD, then we should attack the root cause, not pay off nerd's debts.

Student Loans - Page 16 200.gif?cid=ddb306a5gohaz9g1k1hlh1f2otbnct8tugm4qzt2k4deatk0&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200

by TravelinMan 2024-04-24, 10:54

Jake from State Farm wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

If it costs $250K for a PhD, then we should attack the root cause, not pay off nerd's debts.

While we're at it, can we also attack the root cause of why medical treatments in this country are so out of control?

Well, we were gonna do that, but we decided this week to give slumlords solar panels, instead. Enjoy your co-pay.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-04-24, 10:55

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

I'm with Bob on this one, plus with Thom Hartman.

Anyone who professes to be a supporter of the Libertarians today is most likely a Republican running away from Trump. (Bob)
and they're only "running away" from the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator and convicted rapist in public.. we all know who they support on the ballot.

at least with the MAGA patriots, they proclaim their stupidity, racism, bigotry and misogyny proudly. Libertarians pretend to be intellectually nuanced and enlightened but anyone with a 4th grade reading level can see right through it.

Just like anyone with conformation bias, me included, they tend to look past the logical contradictions in their philosophical beliefs.

by TravelinMan 2024-04-24, 10:56

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Couldn't we find some cheaper ones?

A top-level musician, or the education of those trying to be that, is as much a professional athlete as a top major league pitcher, or a top NFL QB. It requires as much muscle memory and control. To create one is expensive. The top ones, just like sports, are a combination of innate ability (talent) and intense training.

It probably doesn't get cheaper.

I wonder how much Bruce Springsteen's loans were? Maybe Bob knows.

by TravelinMan 2024-04-24, 10:58

Trapper Gus wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote: and they're only "running away" from the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator and convicted rapist in public.. we all know who they support on the ballot.

at least with the MAGA patriots, they proclaim their stupidity, racism, bigotry and misogyny proudly. Libertarians pretend to be intellectually nuanced and enlightened but anyone with a 4th grade reading level can see right through it.

Just like anyone with conformation bias, me included, they tend to look past the logical contradictions in their philosophical beliefs.

We all pick and choose from platforms that appeal to us, and ignore the points that don't. Politics, religion, or girls at the bar - it's all the same thought process at work.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-04-24, 10:59

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

I'm with Bob on this one, plus with Thom Hartman.

Anyone who professes to be a supporter of the Libertarians today is most likely a Republican running away from Trump. (Bob)

In addition, the US Libertarian Party was created as a grifting scam by Milton Friedman to create support for tax actions that the real estate brokers wanted to occur (Thom Hartman)

If you want to go back to the origan of Libertarianism, 18th century France, that is a different thing, however those Liberations believed in government ownership of all capital. Somehow, I don't think you are there.

Well that's just ignorant. Congrats on being on Bob's level of credibility.

But if you really believe that in the late 80's I had foreseen the rise of Trump and decided to label myself a libertarian to temporarily distance myself from Republicans, then.... thank you? I think?

I always hate it when you guys can't read the fine print, "most likely" means that some are not, doofus.

You might be a "true believer" but the Libertarian ideals you believe in are unworkable and contain their own logical contradictions.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-04-24, 11:00

Trapper Gus wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote: and they're only "running away" from the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator and convicted rapist in public.. we all know who they support on the ballot.

at least with the MAGA patriots, they proclaim their stupidity, racism, bigotry and misogyny proudly. Libertarians pretend to be intellectually nuanced and enlightened but anyone with a 4th grade reading level can see right through it.

Just like anyone with conformation bias, me included, they tend to look past the logical contradictions in their philosophical beliefs.

the republican/libertarian folks are fun to toy with.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-04-24, 11:02

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Just like anyone with conformation bias, me included, they tend to look past the logical contradictions in their philosophical beliefs.

We all pick and choose from platforms that appeal to us, and ignore the points that don't. Politics, religion, or girls at the bar - it's all the same thought process at work.

I don't.

I was trained to always search out what is true.

It took me about 45 years to discover a method of logic which supports that search with only one known flaw in the mapping of the logic system to reality.

by **GRR Spartan** 2024-04-24, 11:12

If you are fortunate enough to graduate from Kalamazoo Public Schools you can got to any public community college or state university in MI tuition free.

It’s a big chunk out of your undergrad bill. Still got room & board that’s now upwards of $40K and around $50K at a place like MSU or umaa.

That’s a long way from $18K tuition over 4 years and you could land a job paying $45K+.

Wages and salaries have hardly kept pace but look at tax breaks for corporations that fund stock buybacks. Those guys NEED the cuts their tax breaks that reduce Federal revenues.

PS
They already fucked over veterans changing VA college benefits.

by TravelinMan 2024-04-24, 11:13

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Well that's just ignorant. Congrats on being on Bob's level of credibility.

But if you really believe that in the late 80's I had foreseen the rise of Trump and decided to label myself a libertarian to temporarily distance myself from Republicans, then.... thank you? I think?

I always hate it when you guys can't read the fine print, "most likely" means that some are not, doofus.

You might be a "true believer" but the Libertarian ideals you believe in are unworkable and contain their own logical contradictions.

Yeah, that wasn't targeted at me, you just happened to say that in response to a post I made. It's clearly my fault for taking it that way.

You lose more credibility each day, Trap.

by **GRR Spartan** 2024-04-24, 11:15

What is the cheese with your Wednesday whine Travelin?

Nothing and no one is keeping you here.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-04-24, 11:20

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

I always hate it when you guys can't read the fine print, "most likely" means that some are not, doofus.

You might be a "true believer" but the Libertarian ideals you believe in are unworkable and contain their own logical contradictions.

Yeah, that wasn't targeted at me, you just happened to say that in response to a post I made. It's clearly my fault for taking it that way.

You lose more credibility each day, Trap.

It was targeted both at people who call themselves Libertarians in general, and at you in particular, but, logically, it has a "back door" that you can walk out of, if it doesn't apply.

I would say it is somewhat telling about who you really are that you chose not to use that back door in your reply, but you could just feel that your belief system, which you picked up as a kid, has some flaws and are reacting defensively. (BTW, I liked that belief system too, when I was 25, until smarter people than myself began pointing out all the practical flaws within it. Once I saw that it didn't work, I abandoned it, as any mature person seeking "The Truth" would do.)

by **Motown Spartan** 2024-04-24, 11:30

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Oh, come on now. I thought all your Libertarian types were all in on revenue reductions (tax cuts) don't cause federal deficits.

Never heard of that. I'd ask you to cite a source, but that didn't work out so well last time, so I'm just gonna glide on this one.

Fake libertarian.

by TravelinMan 2024-04-24, 11:32

Motown Spartan wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Never heard of that. I'd ask you to cite a source, but that didn't work out so well last time, so I'm just gonna glide on this one.

Fake libertarian.

Since 1988! Yay Fake Libertarians!

by TravelinMan 2024-04-24, 11:32

GRR Spartan wrote:What is the cheese with your Wednesday whine Travelin?

Nothing and no one is keeping you here.

Uh oh. I must be on target today. Grramps wants to run me off. Student Loans - Page 16 502811600

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