The 2024 US House & Senate (& Presidential Election) and the Michigan Legislature - Who do you Think Wins?

Jake from State Farm wrote:

Just doing my part for the good of the country.

if done at a large scale, this is in fact the best way to slowly turn our parties less extreme.  That means in red states, all the democrats vote for the least deplorable conservative in the primary and all the republicans in blue states vote for most tolerable democrat.  There's enough democrats and republicans in each party dominated state to have some wins for the centrists every cycle. The primary votes are usually split enough where a coordinated 20 or 30% vote coming in on one centrist candidate will put them on top. Then that guarantees the general will have a middle person.  To be honest, this left right divide crap needs to go in all the one party states, there's no reason not to do this. All you have to do is swallow a little bit of barf in your mouth when you vote and receive all the election mail.

Cameron wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

At first blush I'm not a fan.  Why?  An assumed degree in Economics from the University of Chicago, which is well known for its adherence to a hard right wing economic interpretations.  We don't need a discipline of Milton Friedman as President.  He might undo all the economic policy gains that Biden has made.

If I thought he would be some trickle-down doofus, I wouldn't want any part of him. I have no preconceived notions about what they may or may not teach at the University of Chicago as it relates to economics, and I really don't care. Virtually everything I've ever heard about him has been neutral to positive. I'm sure I'd find nits to pick if I looked more closely, but that's true of literally everyone, politician or no. I would be deeply unconcerned about President Ro Khanna undoing any of the good things the Biden administration has achieved.

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Cameron wrote:

Cameron wrote:

If I thought he would be some trickle-down doofus, I wouldn't want any part of him. I have no preconceived notions about what they may or may not teach at the University of Chicago as it relates to economics, and I really don't care. Virtually everything I've ever heard about him has been neutral to positive. I'm sure I'd find nits to pick if I looked more closely, but that's true of literally everyone, politician or no. I would be deeply unconcerned about President Ro Khanna undoing any of the good things the Biden administration has achieved.

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That is a very hopeful sign, I guess I need to know more.

Pretty much sums up the false DoJ reporting on Joe's capabilities...

Really, really sad that people on this board fall for this stuff.

Did you learn nothing form "her e-mails"?

Trapper Gus wrote:

Pretty much sums up the false DoJ reporting on Joe's capabilities...

Really, really sad that people on this board fall for this stuff.

Did you learn nothing form "her e-mails"?

Has it not occurred to you that it really truly does not matter if his brain is broken? (Though, again, he is 81 and the suggestion that he either isn’t up to snuff or won’t be by 85 is simply not an absurd one no matter how much it hurts you to hear that) just like it really didn’t matter if her emails were in Ukraine or whatever the fuck? It doesn’t matter if it’s true or not even a little bit. 

If enough people believe it’s true then it is. No amount of articles from whatever source makes you happy will change that. The only thing that could maybe change that is if he stops naming dead foreign leaders when he means the alive ones, but that’s purely on him. You can’t excuse it away every other day when he messes up. I mean, you can, but no one cares. At a certain point he needs to not mess up or people will draw conclusions.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Pretty much sums up the false DoJ reporting on Joe's capabilities...

Really, really sad that people on this board fall for this stuff.

Did you learn nothing form "her e-mails"?

Has it not occurred to you that it really truly does not matter if his brain is broken? (Though, again, he is 81 and the suggestion that he either isn’t up to snuff or won’t be by 85 is simply not an absurd one no matter how much it hurts you to hear that) just like it really didn’t matter if her emails were in Ukraine or whatever the fuck? It doesn’t matter if it’s true or not even a little bit. 

If enough people believe it’s true then it is. No amount of articles from whatever source makes you happy will change that. The only thing that could maybe change that is if he stops naming dead foreign leaders when he means the alive ones, but that’s purely on him. You can’t excuse it away every other day when he messes up. I mean, you can, but no one cares. At a certain point he needs to not mess up or people will draw conclusions.

Yes, it matters that people believe the lie that his brain is broken.

Why do you think I keep pushing back against the people on this board who buy into that "he is too old" stuff?  (I typically try to stay on the positive stories about people I support)

While his body is showing his age, the actions he has been taking show that right now his is functioning well as President.  

Plus, all the people who deal with his face to face, including the Republicans, agree he is one sharp old dude, which the "he is too old people" don't even let past their mental barriers.

Anyone can have a mental breakdown.  I have known several 20- to 30-year-olds who have developed bi-polar disorder.

If anything, the fact that Biden has been ticking along for 81 years is, for his mental health, a positive.

BTW I thought this cartoon was a pretty funny one, sort of showing how stupid people who fall for the "he is too old" stuff are.

edit - adding this in here because this topic is over the hill.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/2/13/2223296/-My-Thoughts-on-Biden-As-Someone-With-Actual-Cognitive-Dysfunction?pm_campaign=front_page&pm_source=latest_community&pm_medium=web

The Senate finally passed a $95 billion foreign aid package for Ukraine, Israel and the Indo-Pacific early on Tuesday morning.

Why it matters: The tortured proceedings have put on display a divided Republican party, with a growing faction embracing isolationist views at odds with the GOP establishment.

https://www.axios.com/2024/02/13/senate-foreign-aid-ukraine-vote-israel

The orange blob is 77 and exhibiting multiple signs of being on the edge of senility yet no one seems to give a crap about that. Strange group of voters in this country.

Democrats flip a House seat in a special election.

looking forward to the mainstream media and political pundits saying this is bad news for Biden and a "warning" to Democrats in November.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:Democrats flip a House seat in a special election.

looking forward to the mainstream media and political pundits saying this is bad news for Biden and a "warning" to Democrats in November.

The Democratics have been killing it in special elections since the court overturned roe. One of the reasons I'm sticking with my Biden prediction.

DWags wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

The Democratics have been killing it in special elections since the court overturned roe. One of the reasons I'm sticking with my Biden prediction.

Me too. By the way, my landline was called last week doing a political survey. My freaking landline. I haven’t used it. I listen to the messages in a year. But it rang and I was home because I have nowhere to go so I answered it

I portrayed myself as the biggest right wing asshole in the world couldn’t get more to the right than I was

I hope that screwed up their survey numbers, and I think that many people, like me do the same thing

Was it a relatively honest survey or was it a push survey asking if you would vote for the baby killer Biden or the angel Trump?

Some of these surveys are done to try to identify protentional voters on one side so they can be sure to get you to the polls during the election.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Arrests for illegal crossings on the U.S. border with Mexico fell by half in January from record highs in December to the third lowest month of Joe Biden’s presidency, authorities said Tuesday.

https://apnews.com/article/immigration-border-security-migrants-homeland-security-1c6e9f612dff721191c0254f980947a5

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cc: turtleneck- That’s why I’m saying generic democrat vs trump is better for democrats than biden vs trump. Biden comes with the baggage of their nonstop gaze for 5 years which puts his candidacy at risk. Generic democrat doesn’t have that, and is more popular than generic Republican or trump. They wouldn’t need to even really do a lot to win, just not implode by pulling an edwards/Cunningham/Tucker. Seems easier said than done but still.

Conversely I think generic Republican vs biden is also probably a win for generic Republican. Either party would win if they just didn’t follow the ancient leader leading them. Neither will.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:Democrats flip a House seat in a special election.

looking forward to the mainstream media and political pundits saying this is bad news for Biden and a "warning" to Democrats in November.

the weather!

It snowed heavily in the tri-state area for the first time in years Tuesday, which made travel tricky, closed schools and otherwise disrupted the normal flow of an election day. Good thing then for Democrats that, unlike many Republicans in thrall to Trump, they very much embrace the idea of early voting.  

same article..

There stood Suozzi, all smiles, as he prepared to begin his victory speech, when he was interrupted by protesters accusing him of aiding and abetting a “genocide” by Israel in Gaza.

Then it happened again. And again.  Though little will be made of a brief demonstration before a speech, the anger among progressive grassroots – young voters even more so – is real, and it is not going away. It might not add up to more votes for Republicans in the fall, but as things stand, it seems sure to eat away at Democratic support.

And in an era of fine political margins, that’s a problem.

same article..

Don’t take away too much

This race was always going to take on national significance, both because of the stakes in the House and the makeup of the electorate, which is largely similar to suburban swing districts in presidential battleground states.  

now, I have a nap to take, so I can't sit and review these sad mainstream media pieces or listen to the pointy-headed political pundit know-it-alls.. but clearly they are minimizing a Democrat flipping a GOP seat leading up to November. As a random idiot like me predicted.  

Caution: Mainstream Media Link

Trapper Gus wrote:Michigan U.S. Senate race

Republican field includes

1 - U.S. Reps. Mike Rogers
2 - U.S. Reps. Peter Meijer
4 - U.S. Rep. Justin Amash
5 - State Board of Education member Nikki Snyder
6 - Sandy Pensler
7 - Michael Hoover
8 - Sherry O'Donnell
9 - Alexandria Taylor
10 - J.D. Wilson
12 - Sharon Savage
13 - Bensson Samual
14 - Glen Wilson

3 - Detroit police chief James Craig


Democratic field features

1 - U.S. Rep. Elissa Slotkin
2 - Hill Harper
3 - Nasser Beydoun

4 - Zack Burns
5 - Leslie Love
6 - Pamela Pugh

https://apnews.com/article/michigan-senate-republican-detroit-police-chief-ec5c3f5516472b78599a77c4fc95ad81

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/whos-running-us-senate-michigan-james-craig-ends-campaign

Latest MSM meme:

Yes, Suozzi’s race was atypical. Above all, voter turnout in special elections is much lower than in presidential elections, and low turnout now benefits Democrats, as my colleague Nate Cohn has emphasized.

Funny, when Republicans win with low turnout it is a sign of voter enthusiasm.

Gotta love the MSM, they will never change, and what about her e-mails.

Age should not preclude either Joe Biden or Donald Trump from serving another four years as president, a group of aging experts said Thursday at a webinar organized by the American Federation for Aging Research.

If Biden, 81, and Trump, 77, are the candidates on Election Day, as appears likely right now, they would break their own record — set four years ago — as the oldest candidates in U.S. history.

But despite recent intense media coverage and significant skepticism from voters about both men, the presumptive nominees of both major parties appear up to the task of governing, the panel members agreed.

People age at different rates, and the ill effects of advanced age don’t appear to be having an impact on Biden or Trump, said S. Jay Olshansky, a professor of public health at the University of Illinois at Chicago and research associate at the Center on Aging at the University of Chicago.

“Both in Biden and Trump’s case, we’ve got evidence to suggest … they’re doing exceptionally well,” Olshanksy said. “Don’t believe what you see in the media about loss of cognitive functioning and the like.”

https://michiganadvance.com/2024/02/16/worried-biden-and-trump-are-too-old-to-be-president-calm-down-experts-on-aging-say/

S. Jay Olshansky sounds like a clown.

Cameron wrote:S. Jay Olshansky sounds like a clown.

Don't know what to say to you, your reality filters are filtering out reality and there is no amount of presenting reality to you which will change that.

Travis has a reasonable argument that the MSM has convinced people that Biden is too old. You are just emoting without reason.

Basically, posting like a left wing Zurn.

Nah, you've found one doofus with credentials to confirm your bias. That's really all that's happening here. Everyone else sees things clearly for what they are, including a majority of democrats, 73% of whom say he is too old, according to recent polling.

Cameron wrote:Nah, you've found one doofus with credentials to confirm your bias. That's really all that's happening here. Everyone else sees things clearly for what they are, including a majority of democrats, 73% of whom say he is too old, according to recent polling.

No, he is just saying that using only age as a measure of complicacy doesn't work, you must look at each person you might be stereotyping into an age-related measurement.

He is also saying that genetics & health maintenance matter.

As far as I can tell from your posts you just don't want to actually think about these factors, maybe in your case the age-related mental issues have set in at a much younger age?

edit - and BTW, before you get all pissed off about my teasing dig at you, you are the one turning this place into Wells, and I can be much nastier than that gentle insult.

I'm considering more than just the actual number of his age. When he speaks in public, he looks and sounds old as fuck.

Springsteen at 73 years old.

Cameron wrote:I'm considering more than just the actual number of his age. When he speaks in public, he looks and sounds old as fuck.

Or when he does his shuffle away from the podium. I am not voting just for Biden, I am voting for his team. No one person can take care of all the responsibilities of being president without MAJOR help, and the team around Biden is doing great. The other major candidate thinks he can do it himself, but those around him when he was in charge sometimes worked to undercut him. And trump is dumb enough to say he alone can fix it. It is not a choice.

Cameron wrote:I'm considering more than just the actual number of his age. When he speaks in public, he looks and sounds old as fuck.

He is physically old for a few reasons.  (Posted this in the last few pages)

He has spinal arthritis, and the nerves in his feet are losing some feeling and a broken foot in November of 2020 which have all affected his ability to walk, though he still rides a bike.

As for his voice, he has suffered from allergies all his life, which over time causes the softer voice that he has, sort of like Tom Izzo's

Neither of those has an effect on his mental capacity, which, as noted by many, included by many Republicans in private, are still sharp.

Time for an update:

Manchin not running on No-Labels

TP wrote:Listing the possibles in order with strikeouts for ones not in the running & bold for those declared.

Democratic:
1 - Joe Biden

NB - Dean Phillips

1 - Vice President Kamala Harris
2 - California Governor Gavin Newsom
3 - Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer
4 - Senator Bernie Sanders
5 - Senator Elizabeth Warren
6 - Senator Raphael Warnock
7 - Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg
8 - Beto O’Rourke
9 - Stacey Abrams
10 - Senator Cory Booker
11 - Senator Amy Klobuchar
12 - Maryland Governor Wes Moore
13 - Senator Mark Kelly
14 - Senator Tammy Baldwin
15 - Colorado Governor Jared Polis
16 - North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper
17 - Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro
18 - New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy
19 - Illinois Governor JB Pritzker
20 - Rep. Tim Ryan
21 - Ex - Montana Governor Steve Bullock
22 - Senator John Fetterman
24 - US House Representative Ro Khanna
23 - Ex - Judge Cheri Beasley
25 - Gina Raimondo
26 - Marianne Williamson
27 - Robert F Kennedy Jr


Republican:
1 - Donald Trump

3 - Ex Governor Nikki Haley

16 - Ex US Representative Liz Cheney

1a - Florida Governor Ron DeSantis
2 - Ex-VP Mike Pence
4 - Georgia Governor Brian Kemp
5 - Virginia Governor Glenn Youngkin
6 - New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu
7 - South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem
8 - Ex Maryland Governor Larry Hogan
9 - Ex Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson
10 - Mike Pompeo
11 - Senator Ted Cruz
13 - Senator Tim Scott
12 - Senator Marco Rubio
14 - Ex New Jersey Governor Chris Christie
15 - John Bolton
17 - Larry Elder
18 - Vivek Ramaswamy
ND - Miami Mayor Francis Suarez
ND - Ex US Representative Will Hurd
ND - North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum

No-Lable Party:

2 - Joe Lieberman?
1 - Joe Manchin
3 - Liz Cheney?
4 - Mitt Romney?
5 - former Governor of Utah Jon Huntsman

Green Party:
1 - Jill Stein

2 - Cornel West

Independent:
1 - Cornel West

Libertarian?
1 - Robert F Kennedy Jr

https://apnews.com/article/joe-manchin-2024-presidential-run-8377c2c336b14c660807941fe943b3b7

gomersbro wrote:

Cameron wrote:I'm considering more than just the actual number of his age. When he speaks in public, he looks and sounds old as fuck.

Or when he does his shuffle away from the podium. I am not voting just for Biden, I am voting for his team. No one person can take care of all the responsibilities of being president without MAJOR help, and the team around Biden is doing great. The other major candidate thinks he can do it himself, but those around him when he was in charge sometimes worked to undercut him. And trump is dumb enough to say he alone can fix it. It is not a choice.

I get it, and I agree that the choice between Biden and Trump is obvious. Having said that, what you are saying is essentially that you are voting for the Democrat because he is surrounded and supported by other Democrats. For me, personally, I blame the Democrats for us having this choice. The GOP tried to do some primaries, but it's clear that their base only wants Trump. The DNC has done everything in its power to shield Biden from any semblance of competition. They seem to be operating under the assumption that all right thinking people will be obligated to vote for Biden. But the Democrats and the Democratic candidate are not entitled to my vote, they have to earn it, and they are not doing that right now.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I don't want Trump to win, but I do want Biden to lose. I continue to hold out hope that one or both of Trump and Biden will be out of the race by the election, whatever the reason may be. As things stand now, my intention is to vote for a write in for President and pretty much straight D down ballot (even though they don't deserve it). If it looks like RFK is gonna get any significant support in the general, I'd consider voting for him just to send a message to the two major parties that I hate them both, even though I find RFK and many of his positions to be somewhat odious and rather dumb.

Cameron wrote:

gomersbro wrote:

Or when he does his shuffle away from the podium. I am not voting just for Biden, I am voting for his team. No one person can take care of all the responsibilities of being president without MAJOR help, and the team around Biden is doing great. The other major candidate thinks he can do it himself, but those around him when he was in charge sometimes worked to undercut him. And trump is dumb enough to say he alone can fix it. It is not a choice.

I get it, and I agree that the choice between Biden and Trump is obvious. Having said that, what you are saying is essentially that you are voting for the Democrat because he is surrounded and supported by other Democrats. For me, personally, I blame the Democrats for us having this choice. The GOP tried to do some primaries, but it's clear that their base only wants Trump. The DNC has done everything in its power to shield Biden from any semblance of competition. They seem to be operating under the assumption that all right thinking people will be obligated to vote for Biden. But the Democrats and the Democratic candidate are not entitled to my vote, they have to earn it, and they are not doing that right now.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I don't want Trump to win, but I do want Biden to lose. I continue to hold out hope that one or both of Trump and Biden will be out of the race by the election, whatever the reason may be. As things stand now, my intention is to vote for a write in for President and pretty much straight D down ballot (even though they don't deserve it). If it looks like RFK is gonna get any significant support in the general, I'd consider voting for him just to send a message to the two major parties that I hate them both, even though I find RFK and many of his positions to be somewhat odious and rather dumb.

Why the fuck do you hold the Democratics to this impossible standard and excuse the fucking Republicians for putting a fucking idiot up as their candidate?

Are you fucking out of your fucking mind?

Trapper Gus wrote:

Cameron wrote:


I get it, and I agree that the choice between Biden and Trump is obvious. Having said that, what you are saying is essentially that you are voting for the Democrat because he is surrounded and supported by other Democrats. For me, personally, I blame the Democrats for us having this choice. The GOP tried to do some primaries, but it's clear that their base only wants Trump. The DNC has done everything in its power to shield Biden from any semblance of competition. They seem to be operating under the assumption that all right thinking people will be obligated to vote for Biden. But the Democrats and the Democratic candidate are not entitled to my vote, they have to earn it, and they are not doing that right now.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I don't want Trump to win, but I do want Biden to lose. I continue to hold out hope that one or both of Trump and Biden will be out of the race by the election, whatever the reason may be. As things stand now, my intention is to vote for a write in for President and pretty much straight D down ballot (even though they don't deserve it). If it looks like RFK is gonna get any significant support in the general, I'd consider voting for him just to send a message to the two major parties that I hate them both, even though I find RFK and many of his positions to be somewhat odious and rather dumb.

Why the fuck do you hold the Democratics to this impossible standard and excuse the fucking Republicians for putting a fucking idiot up as their candidate?  

Are you fucking out of your fucking mind?

No, dipshit. I've never voted for a Republican in my life, and I'm not going to any time soon. But I know you are absolutely butthurt that I'm being mean to your precious "Democratics," because most of your ego seems to be tied up in how everyone feels about Joe Biden.

Cameron wrote:

gomersbro wrote:

Or when he does his shuffle away from the podium. I am not voting just for Biden, I am voting for his team. No one person can take care of all the responsibilities of being president without MAJOR help, and the team around Biden is doing great. The other major candidate thinks he can do it himself, but those around him when he was in charge sometimes worked to undercut him. And trump is dumb enough to say he alone can fix it. It is not a choice.

I get it, and I agree that the choice between Biden and Trump is obvious. Having said that, what you are saying is essentially that you are voting for the Democrat because he is surrounded and supported by other Democrats. For me, personally, I blame the Democrats for us having this choice. The GOP tried to do some primaries, but it's clear that their base only wants Trump. The DNC has done everything in its power to shield Biden from any semblance of competition. They seem to be operating under the assumption that all right thinking people will be obligated to vote for Biden. But the Democrats and the Democratic candidate are not entitled to my vote, they have to earn it, and they are not doing that right now.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I don't want Trump to win, but I do want Biden to lose. I continue to hold out hope that one or both of Trump and Biden will be out of the race by the election, whatever the reason may be. As things stand now, my intention is to vote for a write in for President and pretty much straight D down ballot (even though they don't deserve it). If it looks like RFK is gonna get any significant support in the general, I'd consider voting for him just to send a message to the two major parties that I hate them both, even though I find RFK and many of his positions to be somewhat odious and rather dumb.

Your last sentence scares me. I understand protest votes, but this election, and probably the next one, are about maintaining democracy in the United States. Voting for someone like RFK Jr. (Please don't forget the Junior, he isn't his father), is basically still a vote for the breakdown of democracy as MAGA wants. You seem to want more political parties that two. That's cool, it is what Germany has, but it can be a shitshow too (looking at you FDP). I have often thought that myself as I don't agree with everything the Democrats are promoting.

if Donald J. Trump would have sulked away to Herpes-a-lago, then I don't believe Biden would be running for a second term. The necessary support structure to win a national election is just mind-blowing, and those people stayed with Biden because they understand the threat. They weren't going to splinter and goto Harris or Warren or Newsom or Whitmer when there is this existential threat. And no these people aren't the Deep State. These are the James Carvilles who have the organizational skills and the political connections to coordinate a large campaign. Many times a sitting president that is primaried end up wounded for the general (Ford, Carter, HW). No candidate wanted to be the one to damage Biden for the general. So we are back down to Biden stepping away voluntary. And he didn't because his team is staying together. While it might not be liberal enough for you, it is better than the alternative.

Bernie bros gunna bernie bro...

gomersbro wrote:

Cameron wrote:


I get it, and I agree that the choice between Biden and Trump is obvious. Having said that, what you are saying is essentially that you are voting for the Democrat because he is surrounded and supported by other Democrats. For me, personally, I blame the Democrats for us having this choice. The GOP tried to do some primaries, but it's clear that their base only wants Trump. The DNC has done everything in its power to shield Biden from any semblance of competition. They seem to be operating under the assumption that all right thinking people will be obligated to vote for Biden. But the Democrats and the Democratic candidate are not entitled to my vote, they have to earn it, and they are not doing that right now.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I don't want Trump to win, but I do want Biden to lose. I continue to hold out hope that one or both of Trump and Biden will be out of the race by the election, whatever the reason may be. As things stand now, my intention is to vote for a write in for President and pretty much straight D down ballot (even though they don't deserve it). If it looks like RFK is gonna get any significant support in the general, I'd consider voting for him just to send a message to the two major parties that I hate them both, even though I find RFK and many of his positions to be somewhat odious and rather dumb.

Your last sentence scares me. I understand protest votes, but this election, and probably the next one, are about maintaining democracy in the United States. Voting for someone like RFK Jr. (Please don't forget the Junior, he isn't his father), is basically still a vote for the breakdown of democracy as MAGA wants. You seem to want more political parties that two. That's cool, it is what Germany has, but it can be a shitshow too (looking at you FDP). I have often thought that myself as I don't agree with everything the Democrats are promoting.

if Donald J. Trump would have sulked away to Herpes-a-lago, then I don't believe Biden would be running for a second term. The necessary support structure to win a national election is just mind-blowing, and those people stayed with Biden because they understand the threat. They weren't going to splinter and goto Harris or Warren or Newsom or Whitmer when there is this existential threat. And no these people aren't the Deep State. These are the James Carvilles who have the organizational skills and the political connections to coordinate a large campaign. Many times a sitting president that is primaried end up wounded for the general (Ford, Carter, HW). No candidate wanted to be the one to damage Biden for the general. So we are back down to Biden stepping away voluntary. And he didn't because his team is staying together. While it might not be liberal enough for you, it is better than the alternative.

You’re under estimating his ego, which is why he didn’t step away voluntarily and let a better candidate emerge and take his team, not because he is actually the best person to beat trump.

I think Democrats are leaning heavily into the anti Trump vote and not the Pro Biden vote. That’s always risky. And frankly an admission your candidate is weak.

Almost all elections are decided between the 40 yard lines. Not really worried about the 5 yard liners. Again, if you’re blaming the 5 yard liners your candidate is weak an unappealing.

Cameron wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Why the fuck do you hold the Democratics to this impossible standard and excuse the fucking Republicians for putting a fucking idiot up as their candidate?  

Are you fucking out of your fucking mind?

No, dipshit. I've never voted for a Republican in my life, and I'm not going to any time soon. But I know you are absolutely butthurt that I'm being mean to your precious "Democratics," because most of your ego seems to be tied up in how everyone feels about Joe Biden.

Given my last post that is fair. I still think you rag on Biben while ignoring Trump and that you go after Biden for events in other countries which he has limited control over. I disagree \that they are equally bad, of course, but if that is what you really think I guess I can't blame you for not voting. I would never not vote but that is me being me.

kingstonlake wrote:I think Democrats are leaning heavily into the anti Trump vote and not the Pro Biden vote. That’s always risky. And frankly an admission your candidate is weak.

Almost all elections are decided between the 40 yard lines. Not really worried about the 5 yard liners. Again, if you’re blaming the 5 yard liners your candidate is weak an unappealing.

The Democratics are doing more than "Biden isn't Trump". They are also going with "Democratics get things done, Republicans don't."

The problem they have with their second messaging is greedflation hurt people's pocketbooks, that there are wars which they have limited control to do anything about and that Trump, while being wrong on the issues, is right on the political strategy of blocking the Congress for acting for the common good.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

gomersbro wrote:

Your last sentence scares me. I understand protest votes, but this election, and probably the next one, are about maintaining democracy in the United States. Voting for someone like RFK Jr. (Please don't forget the Junior, he isn't his father), is basically still a vote for the breakdown of democracy as MAGA wants. You seem to want more political parties that two. That's cool, it is what Germany has, but it can be a shitshow too (looking at you FDP). I have often thought that myself as I don't agree with everything the Democrats are promoting.

if Donald J. Trump would have sulked away to Herpes-a-lago, then I don't believe Biden would be running for a second term. The necessary support structure to win a national election is just mind-blowing, and those people stayed with Biden because they understand the threat. They weren't going to splinter and goto Harris or Warren or Newsom or Whitmer when there is this existential threat. And no these people aren't the Deep State. These are the James Carvilles who have the organizational skills and the political connections to coordinate a large campaign. Many times a sitting president that is primaried end up wounded for the general (Ford, Carter, HW). No candidate wanted to be the one to damage Biden for the general. So we are back down to Biden stepping away voluntary. And he didn't because his team is staying together. While it might not be liberal enough for you, it is better than the alternative.

You’re under estimating his ego, which is why he didn’t step away voluntarily and let a better candidate emerge and take his team, not because he is actually the best person to beat trump.

I don't know about Biden's ego. I know he didn't run in 2016 because of Beau's death. Would someone with a big ego do that? That would have been a brutal campaign against Clinton and then Trump. Yikes!

You are assuming his team would move on to one candidate. I am certain that would not have happened. The next layer beyond Biden is divided, hence the several names in my post and I am sure there are more. It is illogical to think it would simply transfer to the next in line. He and team might believe they are the best chance to beat Trump, even if others don't seem to think so. If you want to call that ego, ok. But it is based on having done it before whereas Hillary and many Republicans have failed. We really only have one chance here. LET US NOT FUCK IT UP!