New Cars

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2023-03-22, 10:35

Are new car prices starting to get more reasonable after the crazy over inflated period? Or are they still super high?

I’ve noticed a few billboards recently advertising lease prices and it occurred to me that I haven’t seen one of those in a long time and maybe that means they’re coming down?

I don’t necessarily need a new car right now. But I will at some point in the next few years so I suppose I should keep an eye on these things

by **Turtleneck** 2023-03-22, 10:46

I don't think so, and it is a problem. We live in a country built around travel by private vehicle, public transit sucks in this country, and cars are simply not affordable. I am definitely moving in the #fuckcars direction. Except for Ford. I am sure I will overpay for a Ford with a shitty transmission because unexplainable brand loyalty.

by **Floyd Robertson** 2023-03-22, 11:04

Now is your time to get the last brand-new gas-powered Dodge Challenger. You can it with a parachute braking system and you might need it because is has like 1,024 HP and will 0-60 in under 2 seconds.

by **tGreenWay** 2023-03-22, 11:06

Despite a prediction that new and used car prices would drop (modestly) this year, both are still creeping up. And now, with higher interest rates, it’s even more fun.

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-03-22, 11:09

tGreenWay wrote:Despite a prediction that new and used car prices would drop (modestly) this year, both are still creeping up. And now, with higher interest rates, it’s even more fun.

That prediction probably assumes a recession.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2023-03-22, 11:10

Right now we have a jeep compass that is mostly for hauling children around (and is rapidly getting too small as the children grow I do not know how I will be able to do even a couple of day road trip with everyone in that vehicle), a Chevy Silverado that is exclusively for hauling trailers and does not get used otherwise, plus my wife’s sedan.

I’d like to combine the first two cars into a bigger suv that can also haul shit. That probably means a Tahoe or something, though I am not well versed in all of the different models out there that could handle that. With a new one costing around 65-70k I’ll probably just wait awhile

by **Nordic** 2023-03-22, 11:19

Dealers are starting to get more inventory, which is probably why you're seeing more advertising. New car inventory should steadily increase as I'm not seeing as many plant shutdowns and supply chain issues as in 2021. I never want to go through that again. I have no doubt it took years off my life.

Even with the improving supply chain, new vehicle costs are not going to come down. Labor, transportation and material are all up. I don't see that genie being put back in the bottle (especially labor). Which translates to higher overall sticker prices. And I don't think we've seen the peak on vehicle inflation yet. The supply chain has stabilized, but supplier price adjustments are still on going which means we will see vehicle sticker inflation through MY24. Then it should stabilize. Barring another major issue.

by **tGreenWay** 2023-03-22, 11:23

Trapper Gus wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:Despite a prediction that new and used car prices would drop (modestly) this year, both are still creeping up. And now, with higher interest rates, it’s even more fun.

That prediction probably assumes a recession.

That’s a fair observation.

by **tGreenWay** 2023-03-22, 11:28

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Right now we have a jeep compass that is mostly for hauling children around (and is rapidly getting too small as the children grow I do not know how I will be able to do even a couple of day road trip with everyone in that vehicle), a Chevy Silverado that is exclusively for hauling trailers and does not get used otherwise, plus my wife’s sedan.

I’d like to combine the first two cars into a bigger suv that can also haul shit. That probably means a Tahoe or something, though I am not well versed in all of the different models out there that could handle that. With a new one costing around 65-70k I’ll probably just wait awhile

Banasch will weld those two cars together and create more space than you’ll know what to do with.

https://lansingwelding.com/about-us

by **Turtleneck** 2023-03-22, 11:30

Travis, please weld them together. You will have the first Comperado.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2023-03-22, 11:30

Nordic wrote:Dealers are starting to get more inventory, which is probably why you're seeing more advertising. New car inventory should steadily increase as I'm not seeing as many plant shutdowns and supply chain issues as in 2021. I never want to go through that again. I have no doubt it took years off my life.

Even with the improving supply chain, new vehicle costs are not going to come down. Labor, transportation and material are all up. I don't see that genie being put back in the bottle (especially labor). Which translates to higher overall sticker prices. And I don't think we've seen the peak on vehicle inflation yet. The supply chain has stabilized, but supplier price adjustments are still on going which means we will see vehicle sticker inflation through MY24. Then it should stabilize. Barring another major issue.

Yeah I don’t think prices are ever going to come back down to what they were, that’s just #capitalism, but hopefully they can come down a bit in the future. What they’re asking for even after 2 trade ins doesn’t really seem like a very good idea until I’m absolutely pressed to do it by the children needing to fit a soccer goal, hockey equipment, and a goat for some reason in the car.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2023-03-22, 11:33

Turtleneck wrote:Travis, please weld them together. You will have the first Comperado.

Which sides do you think I weld together? Are they side by side or more of a car centipede? Are the front ends facing each other with 1 super double engine in the middle or two separate engines and I weld the trucks exhaust pipe to the jeeps engine?

by **tGreenWay** 2023-03-22, 11:38

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:Travis, please weld them together. You will have the first Comperado.

Which sides do you think I weld together? Are they side by side or more of a car centipede? Are the front ends facing each other with 1 super double engine in the middle or two separate engines and I weld the trucks exhaust pipe to the jeeps engine?

This guy did it right:

by **tGreenWay** 2023-03-22, 11:39

Travis seems like a minivan guy. That’s what he should get.

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-03-22, 11:41

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Nordic wrote:Dealers are starting to get more inventory, which is probably why you're seeing more advertising. New car inventory should steadily increase as I'm not seeing as many plant shutdowns and supply chain issues as in 2021. I never want to go through that again. I have no doubt it took years off my life.

Even with the improving supply chain, new vehicle costs are not going to come down. Labor, transportation and material are all up. I don't see that genie being put back in the bottle (especially labor). Which translates to higher overall sticker prices. And I don't think we've seen the peak on vehicle inflation yet. The supply chain has stabilized, but supplier price adjustments are still o

n going which means we will see vehicle sticker inflation through MY24. Then it should stabilize. Barring another major issue.

Yeah I don’t think prices are ever going to come back down to what they were, that’s just #capitalism, but hopefully they can come down a bit in the future. What they’re asking for even after 2 trade ins doesn’t really seem like a very good idea until I’m absolutely pressed to do it by the children needing to fit a soccer goal, hockey equipment, and a goat for some reason in the car.

Prices are driven by inventory so if car lots are full of cars, or Automotive News is reporting a bunch of vehicles with over 90 days of supply then there will be sales.

by **Motown Spartan** 2023-03-22, 11:46

Did the auto companies learn their lesson from Covid or are they going to repeat the same debacle they did with the semi-conductors when their inventory peaks and they cut production?

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-03-22, 12:03

Motown Spartan wrote:Did the auto companies learn their lesson from Covid or are they going to repeat the same debacle they did with the semi-conductors when their inventory peaks and they cut production?

I saw some articles about automotive purchasing departments adjusting their strategy regarding electronics, however, my working experience in this field suggests that will last until the next cost cutting binge, when they will again try to treat electronics like any other commodity they buy.

Among the large OEMs only Toyota, which tries to maintain a 12 month supply for electronics on hand, learned anything from the nuclear power plant meltdown in Japan which hit automotive electronic supply lines hard.

by MSU addict 2023-03-22, 12:10

I have been looking on and off for awhile. I really like my car but the reality is that it is old enough to legally drink now (2002 Lexus with 250K miles). I have not seen any price decreases - I think Nordic's post is spot on - I see more inventory (basically was 0 last year) but slightly higher prices.

If there was something I really liked, I would make the leap, but there is just nothing out there that I see myself driving. Maybe it is just what I am used to, but when I test drive something I always go back to not liking it any more than what I have. I almost pulled the trigger on a Volvo S90 awhile ago, but that is about it.

My Dad worked for Ford, so I have bit of loyalty there, but as I am not looking for a truck, they make nothing I would even consider. I do not live in Michigan so "buy American" is really irrelevant here.

by **DWags** 2023-03-22, 12:12

180K on my truck. Burning a bit of oil now, but haven't had a payment in 18 months. Best thing ever.

by **Floyd Robertson** 2023-03-22, 12:18

DWags wrote:180K on my truck. Burning a bit of oil now, but haven't had a payment in 18 months. Best thing ever.

Car payments suck. A month into the pandemic I had a lease due for turn in and I bought an off-lease 2017 vehicle with 24,000 miles on a 60-month loan. Now 36 months later with twice as many miles and I'm paying this sucker off next month. Not planning any more payments for about five years.

Of course by then with the way prices are going it'll be a $1,000 a month for 96 months.

by MSU addict 2023-03-22, 12:24

Trapper Gus wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Yeah I don’t think prices are ever going to come back down to what they were, that’s just #capitalism, but hopefully they can come down a bit in the future. What they’re asking for even after 2 trade ins doesn’t really seem like a very good idea until I’m absolutely pressed to do it by the children needing to fit a soccer goal, hockey equipment, and a goat for some reason in the car.

Prices are driven by inventory so if car lots are full of cars, or Automotive News is reporting a bunch of vehicles with over 90 days of supply then there will be sales.

As I posted earlier I have been looking off and on for awhile. Car buying seems to be changing. I can't speak from an industry perspective, but day of a dealership with a bunch of salesman waiting around of for their next "up" trying to sell you something off their lot seems to be gone. It is much oriented toward online sales. There are essentially zero dealer trades. Negotiating seems to be whether or not they will add a dealer premium.

The lack of people is sales departments is really weird, huge spaces with no people. It is like walking into my bank now, no bank tellers. Just weird.

by **Nordic** 2023-03-22, 12:27

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Nordic wrote:Dealers are starting to get more inventory, which is probably why you're seeing more advertising. New car inventory should steadily increase as I'm not seeing as many plant shutdowns and supply chain issues as in 2021. I never want to go through that again. I have no doubt it took years off my life.

Even with the improving supply chain, new vehicle costs are not going to come down. Labor, transportation and material are all up. I don't see that genie being put back in the bottle (especially labor). Which translates to higher overall sticker prices. And I don't think we've seen the peak on vehicle inflation yet. The supply chain has stabilized, but supplier price adjustments are still on going which means we will see vehicle sticker inflation through MY24. Then it should stabilize. Barring another major issue.

Yeah I don’t think prices are ever going to come back down to what they were, that’s just #capitalism, but hopefully they can come down a bit in the future. What they’re asking for even after 2 trade ins doesn’t really seem like a very good idea until I’m absolutely pressed to do it by the children needing to fit a soccer goal, hockey equipment, and a goat for some reason in the car.

And this doesn't factor in that vehicles are simply going to become more expensive as they are coming loaded with more technology (adaptive cruise, big screens, EVs, etc.) and manufacturer's are steering away from lower cost sedans for profitability reasons. This is more a long range outlook though.

The only way I see vehicle prices coming down short term is more new car dealer inventory, which will help reduce the used car market. I don't see it having much effect on new cars though. The days of dealer incentives on new cars may be gone forever as I doubt we'll ever see 60-90 new car inventory levels like we saw in the past. Interest rates are the wildcard in all of this. The housing market is starting to feel the effect. The car market might lag a bit behind as there is more pent up demand from the plant shutdowns.

Long story short, if you need a car, there is no future good time to buy.

by **Nordic** 2023-03-22, 12:33

tGreenWay wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Which sides do you think I weld together? Are they side by side or more of a car centipede? Are the front ends facing each other with 1 super double engine in the middle or two separate engines and I weld the trucks exhaust pipe to the jeeps engine?

This guy did it right:

lol

That is badass.

by **Trapper Gus** 2023-03-22, 12:35

The disruptive switch from ICE to EV is going to keep automotive markets unsettled for several years.

by **Nordic** 2023-03-22, 12:47

MSU addict wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Prices are driven by inventory so if car lots are full of cars, or Automotive News is reporting a bunch of vehicles with over 90 days of supply then there will be sales.
As I posted earlier I have been looking off and on for awhile. Car buying seems to be changing. I can't speak from an industry perspective, but day of a dealership with a bunch of salesman waiting around of for their next "up" trying to sell you something off their lot seems to be gone. It is much oriented toward online sales. There are essentially zero dealer trades. Negotiating seems to be whether or not they will add a dealer premium.

The lack of people is sales departments is really weird, huge spaces with no people. It is like walking into my bank now, no bank tellers. Just weird.

I haven't seen the lack of sales people at the dealer level yet. Was in a Ford dealer for a part install last week. When I walked in I saw a half dozen eyeballs look my way and bodies starting to move in my direction. I made zero eye contact and b-lined for the back garage. Same with a GM dealer I was just in. But it would make sense to cut sales staff.

But you are right, the buying process is different now. In the 90s I would pre-order my cars and wait several months for it to be built. In the 2000-2010s I would show up and walk out an hour later with a new ride. I'm going to sound like a broken record, but this is all because of dealer inventory. It didn't make sense to order something and wait when there were 5 nearly identical vehicles already sitting on the lot that the dealer wanted to move as quick as possible. Now we are basically back to ordering vehicles again and waiting 3 months (barring there are no part holds).

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2023-03-22, 12:51

tGreenWay wrote:Travis seems like a minivan guy. That’s what he should get.

Honestly was kicking it around until I realized that it would be nice to have a car that can replace the truck too

by AvgMSUJoe 2023-03-22, 12:51

Nordic wrote:
I haven't seen the lack of sales people at the dealer level yet. Was in a Ford dealer for a part install last week. When I walked in I saw a half dozen eyeballs look my way and bodies starting to move in my direction. I made zero eye contact and b-lined for the back garage. Same with a GM dealer I was just in. But it would make sense to cut sales staff.

by **Nordic** 2023-03-22, 12:53

Zero dealer trades has been mentioned a few times. I'm surprised by this. Used car market is hot (or was), I would think dealers would welcome trade ins. I traded in a Traverse last summer when we got my wife's new car. Dealer gave me over bluebook. And they took it sight unseen. We swapped keys and away we went. Watching the used car market, I probably could of sold it outright for a bit more, but it wasn't worth the hassle. Plus I was hiding shit for Travis in the spare tire compartment.

by **Nordic** 2023-03-22, 12:55

AvgMSUJoe wrote:
Nordic wrote:
I haven't seen the lack of sales people at the dealer level yet. Was in a Ford dealer for a part install last week. When I walked in I saw a half dozen eyeballs look my way and bodies starting to move in my direction. I made zero eye contact and b-lined for the back garage. Same with a GM dealer I was just in. But it would make sense to cut sales staff.

Lol. Having flashbacks. That is exactly what it looked like. It was 10am no customers in the lobby. When I walked through the main door I was fresh meat.

by MSU addict 2023-03-22, 12:57

Nordic wrote:Zero dealer trades has been mentioned a few times. I'm surprised by this. Used car market is hot (or was), I would think dealers would welcome trade ins. I traded in a Traverse last summer when we got my wife's new car. Dealer gave me over bluebook. And they took it sight unseen. We swapped keys and away we went. Watching the used car market, I probably could of sold it outright for a bit more, but it wasn't worth the hassle. Plus I was hiding shit for Travis in the spare tire compartment.

By dealer trades, I did not mean trade ins - they welcome those. What I meant is a dealer is not going to find a car one another lot that you want and trade something back to the other dealer. That is just dead - if you want something on another dealers lot - go to the other dealer even if it is in another state.

I will also point out again that I do not live in Michigan, so it may be different here.

by **Nordic** 2023-03-22, 13:05

MSU addict wrote:
Nordic wrote:Zero dealer trades has been mentioned a few times. I'm surprised by this. Used car market is hot (or was), I would think dealers would welcome trade ins. I traded in a Traverse last summer when we got my wife's new car. Dealer gave me over bluebook. And they took it sight unseen. We swapped keys and away we went. Watching the used car market, I probably could of sold it outright for a bit more, but it wasn't worth the hassle. Plus I was hiding shit for Travis in the spare tire compartment.
By dealer trades, I did not mean trade ins - they welcome those. What I meant is a dealer is not going to find a car one another lot that you want and trade something back to the other dealer. That is just dead - if you want something on another dealers lot - go to the other dealer even if it is in another state.

I will also point out again that I do not live in Michigan, so it may be different here.

Ahh yeah. I gotcha. Yeah that is impossible right now. Any dealer with a new car is going horde it.

by **Turtleneck** 2023-03-22, 13:17

All I am getting from this conversation is Nordic can get us all new cars. He knows his stuff and has connects. Nordic, I would like a two-door Bronco. Travis will take a Chevy Spark. Thanks.

by **Nordic** 2023-03-22, 13:44

Turtleneck wrote:All I am getting from this conversation is Nordic can get us all new cars. He knows his stuff and has connects. Nordic, I would like a two-door Bronco. Travis will take a Chevy Spark. Thanks.

No problem. I found you an orange Raptor. Ignore the scratched off VIN.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2023-03-22, 14:02

Nordic wrote:Zero dealer trades has been mentioned a few times. I'm surprised by this. Used car market is hot (or was), I would think dealers would welcome trade ins. I traded in a Traverse last summer when we got my wife's new car. Dealer gave me over bluebook. And they took it sight unseen. We swapped keys and away we went. Watching the used car market, I probably could of sold it outright for a bit more, but it wasn't worth the hassle. Plus I was hiding shit for Travis in the spare tire compartment.

Thank you again for that. The specimen were remarkably well preserved for how hot it was last summer. Your garage must remain pretty cool

by **Jake from State Farm** 2023-03-22, 14:17

Nordic wrote:Zero dealer trades has been mentioned a few times. I'm surprised by this. Used car market is hot (or was), I would think dealers would welcome trade ins. I traded in a Traverse last summer when we got my wife's new car. Dealer gave me over bluebook. And they took it sight unseen. We swapped keys and away we went. Watching the used car market, I probably could of sold it outright for a bit more, but it wasn't worth the hassle. Plus I was hiding shit for Travis in the spare tire compartment.

Same here. Traded mine in when I got my new truck. I figured it wasn't worth messing with scammers and people in general just for a couple thousand$, if even that. Dealer still has it sitting out in front six months later.

by **tGreenWay** 2023-03-22, 14:40

Nordic wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:

This guy did it right:

lol

That is badass.

Having seen it before, I went looking for that specific video. Turns out there are quite a few rednecks who’ve done that. lol

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2023-03-22, 14:41

by **tGreenWay** 2023-03-22, 14:46

MSU addict wrote:
Nordic wrote:Zero dealer trades has been mentioned a few times. I'm surprised by this. Used car market is hot (or was), I would think dealers would welcome trade ins. I traded in a Traverse last summer when we got my wife's new car. Dealer gave me over bluebook. And they took it sight unseen. We swapped keys and away we went. Watching the used car market, I probably could of sold it outright for a bit more, but it wasn't worth the hassle. Plus I was hiding shit for Travis in the spare tire compartment.
By dealer trades, I did not mean trade ins - they welcome those. What I meant is a dealer is not going to find a car one another lot that you want and trade something back to the other dealer. That is just dead - if you want something on another dealers lot - go to the other dealer even if it is in another state.

I will also point out again that I do not live in Michigan, so it may be different here.

If my dealer isn’t willing to trade for the color/specs I want, then fuck him. I’m stubborn enough to drive pretty much anywhere to get my prize.

by **tGreenWay** 2023-03-22, 14:49

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:Travis seems like a minivan guy. That’s what he should get.

Honestly was kicking it around until I realized that it would be nice to have a car that can replace the truck too

So what, a Yukon or Sequoia-type? Both are sharp looking vehicles that will haul a trailer full of used diapers (for when uncle Turtleneck travels with you).

by AvgMSUJoe 2023-03-22, 15:14

tGreenWay wrote:
MSU addict wrote:
By dealer trades, I did not mean trade ins - they welcome those. What I meant is a dealer is not going to find a car one another lot that you want and trade something back to the other dealer. That is just dead - if you want something on another dealers lot - go to the other dealer even if it is in another state.

I will also point out again that I do not live in Michigan, so it may be different here.

If my dealer isn’t willing to trade for the color/specs I want, then fuck him. I’m stubborn enough to drive pretty much anywhere to get my prize.

Fucking dealers don't realize they are a commodity. Anywhere in Michigan you are within 20 miles of like 4 dealers... My last car, the local dealer salesman was pushing taking one from the lot. Kept saying but would you take this and that... I had the exact specs printed off from the website "build your own tool" I wanted.
Ended up driving 20 min and getting it from a different dealer. All the asshole had to do was type it in the computer. Lost out on whatever commission they make by being a dbag.

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