Israel war

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

sεяεηιτλ wrote:

Just a stunning lack of morality on display here especially when you consider the fact that artillery shells are not at all a good weapon for the war they are fighting (basically an urban war).  They are horribly indiscriminate in this situation.  Using them you're basically saying I don't care what gets destroyed, just kill everything in the area

Rly mks u wonder what war they’re actually fighting don’t it

Cameron wrote:

sεяεηιτλ wrote:

Just a stunning lack of morality on display here especially when you consider the fact that artillery shells are not at all a good weapon for the war they are fighting (basically an urban war).  They are horribly indiscriminate in this situation.  Using them you're basically saying I don't care what gets destroyed, just kill everything in the area

Almost as if Israel is committing war crimes by indiscriminately bombing civilians...

sεяεηιτλ wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Rly mks u wonder what war they’re actually fighting don’t it

Not really, just because I disagree with the indiscriminate use of artillery in urban warfare doesn't mean it's not justified based on past experience and active threats.  I'm not privy to all the info and I don't live under constant genocidal threats from all my neighbors all around me.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

sεяεηιτλ wrote:

Not really, just because I disagree with the indiscriminate use of artillery in urban warfare doesn't mean it's not justified based on past experience and active threats.  I'm not privy to all the info and I don't live under constant genocidal threats from all my neighbors all around me.

So you’re fine with slaughtering civilians if you shut your little ears and eyes tight enough got it

sεяεηιτλ wrote:

Cameron wrote:

Almost as if Israel is committing war crimes by indiscriminately bombing civilians...

Maybe, but maybe not.  Hamas has a proud history of hiding amongst civilians and using human shields.  I am of the opinion that they should be using more ground forces separating Hamas from innocent by hand if necessary but there may be some legitimate reasons that can't be done that I'm not aware of.  Hamas seem to be experts at drawing their enemies into so called war crimes by making it impossible to tell them apart from Innocents, that doesn't get them off the hook and innocent gazans need to do more to disassociate from them.

sεяεηιτλ wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
So you’re fine with slaughtering civilians if you shut your little ears and eyes tight enough got it

Nope, not fine with it.  This isn't hard.  The key is to not instantly take the side of terrorists and show some empathy for both sides situation, not just the one side.

Cameron wrote:

sεяεηιτλ wrote:

Nope, not fine with it.  This isn't hard.  The key is to not instantly take the side of terrorists and show some empathy for both sides situation, not just the one side.

 You have not shown empathy to both sides.

I actually have and do regularly. You're just too psychotic to see as your mind is clouded with hard left fundamentalist gobledyguck. In your fucked up mind the fact that i can sympathize with Israel at all means i can't possibly empathize with the Palestinians but those two things are not mutually exclusive like you psychotically treat them.

Cameron wrote:

sεяεηιτλ wrote:

Maybe, but maybe not.  Hamas has a proud history of hiding amongst civilians and using human shields.  I am of the opinion that they should be using more ground forces separating Hamas from innocent by hand if necessary but there may be some legitimate reasons that can't be done that I'm not aware of.  Hamas seem to be experts at drawing their enemies into so called war crimes by making it impossible to tell them apart from Innocents, that doesn't get them off the hook and innocent gazans need to do more to disassociate from them.

Innocent Palestinians in Gaza don't really have a lot of options these days. Nowhere to go that is safe from Hamas or Israel.

They have the option to out the terrorists. They always have that option. The terrorists hide amongst them purposefully and the collateral damage in targeting them is what enrages you so dearly. But the innocents most definitely know in a lot of cases who is and who is not a Hamas terrorist.

Cameron wrote:man you are a psychotic piece of shit

Holy shit do you suck at the quote function.

"Outing Hamas members to the IDF to avoid being killed" is certainly a human rights standard to uphold. Not a good or humane or reasonable standard, but a standard nonetheless.

You are a massive piece of shit.

The psychopath thinks his opinion matters.  Lol

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

sεяεηιτλ wrote:

Not really, just because I disagree with the indiscriminate use of artillery in urban warfare doesn't mean it's not justified based on past experience and active threats.  I'm not privy to all the info and I don't live under constant genocidal threats from all my neighbors all around me.

So you’re fine with slaughtering civilians if you shut your little ears and eyes tight enough got it

Zurn wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
So you’re fine with slaughtering civilians if you shut your little ears and eyes tight enough got it

War remains Hell.

Nobody is "fine" with "slaughtering" civilians.   But urban warfare in one of the most densely populated places on earth is going to be Hell for all involved.  

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Zurn wrote:

War remains Hell.

Nobody is "fine" with "slaughtering" civilians.   But urban warfare in one of the most densely populated places on earth is going to be Hell for all involved.  

You sound fine with it

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Zurn wrote:

War remains Hell.

Nobody is "fine" with "slaughtering" civilians.   But urban warfare in one of the most densely populated places on earth is going to be Hell for all involved.  

You sound fine with it

JERUSALEM (AP) — The proportion of Palestinian women and children being killed in the Israel-Hamas war appears to have declined sharply, an Associated Press analysis of Gaza Health Ministry data has found, a trend that both coincides with Israel’s changing battlefield tactics and contradicts the ministry’s own public statements.

Trapper Gus wrote:So AP has this report, I guess it is better news than a higher percentage of women & children being killed, but it feels like a slap in the face after what has gone before.

JERUSALEM (AP) — The proportion of Palestinian women and children being killed in the Israel-Hamas war appears to have declined sharply, an Associated Press analysis of Gaza Health Ministry data has found, a trend that both coincides with Israel’s changing battlefield tactics and contradicts the ministry’s own public statements.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-casualties-toll-65e18f3362674245356c539e4bc0b67a

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:So AP has this report, I guess it is better news than a higher percentage of women & children being killed, but it feels like a slap in the face after what has gone before.



https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-casualties-toll-65e18f3362674245356c539e4bc0b67a

Running out of them?

Trapper Gus wrote:There has been some discussion on if Israel is inflicting genocide on Gaza on this board. Here is an article detailing what the inventor of the term would have said. Without reading it the answer is Yes, and Israel has been inflicting genocide on the Palestinians long before their attacks on Gaza.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/06/israel-palestine-gaza-genocide-war-crimes-icj-south-africa-raphael-lemkin/?utm_source=mj-newsletters&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-newsletter-06-04-2024

Trapper Gus wrote:Looks like Biden is winning on the political side, but Trump loving  Netenyahu isn't budging.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/11/middleeast/israel-gaza-un-security-council-ceasefire-intl-hnk/index.html

Cameron wrote:Curious what belowAvgJoe and Serenity have to say.

I sympathize with both sides.  Imagine if the state of Michigan was constantly under terrorists attack by Canada, Ohio, Indiana Illinois, Wisconsin and Minnesota and they just attacked you with a load of missiles while raiding and killing your citizens for hostages.  After you go to war and counter attack viciously, You'd be pretty mad and probably be pretty darn insensitive to the plight of those that attacked you when they complain and spread propaganda about how rough you are being with them.

I also feel for the Innocents. Surely there's a lot of innocent collateral damage. Hamas should have thought of that. And in fact just today the Hamas leader was recorded saying that they are necessary sacrifices. Necessary for what exactly? Your hopeless and unnecessary war against a far greater power?

Zurn wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:There has been some discussion on if Israel is inflicting genocide on Gaza on this board. Here is an article detailing what the inventor of the term would have said. Without reading it the answer is Yes, and Israel has been inflicting genocide on the Palestinians long before their attacks on Gaza.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/06/israel-palestine-gaza-genocide-war-crimes-icj-south-africa-raphael-lemkin/?utm_source=mj-newsletters&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-newsletter-06-04-2024

I always look to Mother Jones when looking for an unbiased opinion about the meaning of genocide.

Cameron wrote:So yes it is a genocide or no it is not?

Still not genocide, it's war. A nasty one because palestine is very dense, they are not well armed, and the terrorist targets are purposely sacrificing innocents so they can keep fighting. So says hamas, anyways

Cameron wrote:So yes it is a genocide or no it is not?

Still not genocide, it's war. A nasty one because palestine is very dense, they are not well armed, and the terrorist targets are purposely sacrificing innocents so they can keep fighting. So says hamas, anyways

Trapper Gus wrote:

Zurn wrote:

I always look to Mother Jones when looking for an unbiased opinion about the meaning of genocide.  

When the are quoting the person who invented the term that is a wise way to go.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Dr Amos Goldberg, professor of Holocaust Studies at Hebrew University- “it’s a genocide, most perpetrators of genocide claim they are doing it out of self defense.”

Serenity, internet poster- “not a genocide. They are just defending themselves”

Whose to say who is right it’s an impossible call

sεяεηιτλ wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Dr Amos Goldberg, professor of Holocaust Studies at Hebrew University- “it’s a genocide, most perpetrators of genocide claim they are doing it out of self defense.”

Serenity, internet poster- “not a genocide. They are just defending themselves”

Whose to say who is right it’s an impossible call

certainly i can't be right.  I haven't been here long enough to get enough swill cred.  Move along...

You think it's a slam dunk, but it's not.  Not even close.  That's why it's being debated. You only see biased extremists calling this a genocide for the most part.  You're right that people claim self defense often when they are engaging in genocide.  How else are you going to defend against the impure blood infiltrating your population?  But this is very clearly self defense.  Your argument goes out the window when you simply examine what exactly happened on October 7, 2023.  Clearly that was horrific and they are completely justified in hitting back.  Hamas doesn't even give a shit that innocent Palestinians are dying, must be genocide on their own people right.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

sεяεηιτλ wrote:

certainly i can't be right.  I haven't been here long enough to get enough swill cred.  Move along...

You think it's a slam dunk, but it's not.  Not even close.  That's why it's being debated. You only see biased extremists calling this a genocide for the most part.  You're right that people claim self defense often when they are engaging in genocide.  How else are you going to defend against the impure blood infiltrating your population?  But this is very clearly self defense.  Your argument goes out the window when you simply examine what exactly happened on October 7, 2023.  Clearly that was horrific and they are completely justified in hitting back.  Hamas doesn't even give a shit that innocent Palestinians are dying, must be genocide on their own people right.

No, they aren’t “clearly justified in doing whatever the hell they want.” That is false. You are wrong.

Cameron wrote:Certainly Israel is justified in killing thousands of children, more than four years worth of world conflict, Hamas exists. Obvious grey area.

They drew first blood on the children and innocents. Here's a free lesson for you as well as to what actually occurred as you seem to have blocked the day from your memory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel

GRR Spartan wrote:There are people with influence in the Netanyahu government who want to expand Israeli borders regardless of old treaties because they believe its their divine right to restore their homeland from 2000 years ago before the Roman occupation.

There is another faction who sees Gaza as a major opportunity for a land grab much like early WW2 Los Angeles real estate power brokers saw Japan's bombing of Pearl Harbor as a reason to seize the property Japanese American's homes and businesses owners and ship the previous owners to internment camps.

Still maintain Netanyahu is holding off for the US 2024 election and if Trump wins The White House the US will back his government.