Joe Biden is crushing it.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:Someone has pissed off Joe Biden, this will not be pretty...



https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/7/16/2254871/-Biden-Has-Had-It-With-the-Naysayers-That-is?pm_campaign=front_page&pm_source=trending&pm_medium=web

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/joe-biden-new-supreme-court-plan-backed-by-republicans/ar-BB1q6NYM?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=8c0b35002d0c4b82a420c2699902b3d6&ei=12

So long as it's before 8:00 pm.

Biden gets more done in 12 hours than Trump does in 4 years.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

Someone on this board is gonna have the biggest laugh come November 6.  Should be good fun watching reagrdless.

No one that is trying to tell this dude that Biden doesn’t give the democrats the best chance of beating Trump will be laughing when Trump wins. It’ll mostly be anger. And shaming.

When Biden creates a blue wave to victory in November you all will be kissing my feet...

If that doesn't happen you will be blaming Biden & I will be blaming you and your ilk who created the brewhaha in the Democratic Party over Biden's age.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
No one that is trying to tell this dude that Biden doesn’t give the democrats the best chance of beating Trump will be laughing when Trump wins. It’ll mostly be anger. And shaming.

When Biden creates a blue wave to victory in November you all will be kissing my feet...

If that doesn't happen you will be blaming Biden & I will be blaming you and your ilk who created the brewhaha in the Democratic Party over Biden's age.

And I will tell you to go fuck yourself because me and my ilk all voted for your octogenarian hero glad we could get this out of the way

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

When Biden creates a blue wave to victory in November you all will be kissing my feet...

If that doesn't happen you will be blaming Biden & I will be blaming you and your ilk who created the brewhaha in the Democratic Party over Biden's age.

And I will tell you to go fuck yourself because me and my ilk all voted for your octogenarian hero glad we could get this out of the way

You take yourself far to seriously, sometimes.

Plus you tend to ignore what I am saying and instead make up what you want me to say.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
And I will tell you to go fuck yourself because me and my ilk all voted for your octogenarian hero glad we could get this out of the way

You take yourself far to seriously, sometimes.

Plus you tend to ignore what I am saying and instead make up what you want me to say.

I read what you said, it was stupid, it always is when you insist on only criticizing the Democratic Party going down the chain instead of up it.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

You take yourself far to seriously, sometimes.

Plus you tend to ignore what I am saying and instead make up what you want me to say.

I read what you said, it was stupid, it always is when you insist on only criticizing the Democratic Party going down the chain instead of up it.

Not exactly what I have been saying...

A Party that starts eating it's own prior to an election, as the Democratics did in 2016 with Clinton v Sanders and is doing now regarding Biden typically loses the election.

If they wanted a different candidate the time to make that happen was years ago, now that ship has sailed. If you want to win this election.  It is clear to the clear thinking that Biden may not win, but by dumping Biden the Democratics will lose the election, and this conversation is not moving the Party forward to victory.

You can ignore history on this type of donnybrook but that is only being very stupid, unless you don't want to win.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
I read what you said, it was stupid, it always is when you insist on only criticizing the Democratic Party going down the chain instead of up it.

Not exactly what I have been saying...

A Party that starts eating it's own prior to an election, as the Democratics did in 2016 with Clinton v Sanders and is doing now regarding Biden typically loses the election.

If they wanted a different candidate the time to make that happen was years ago, now that ship has sailed. If you want to win this election.  It is clear to the clear thinking that Biden may not win, but by dumping Biden the Democratics will lose the election, and this conversation is not moving the Party forward to victory.

You can ignore history on this type of donnybrook but that is only being very stupid, unless you don't want to win.

A functional party should not be anointing candidates for the presidency that its members don't want anointed and then complain about voter dissatisfaction when they anoint said candidate two years ahead of the general election. Anointing sounds like monarchy even if its only for roughly half the people.

Notice I never mentioned a specific party or candidate. It's just a general principle. Could be any party. But not all party members respond the same way when this happens, apparently.

Rick Saunders wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Not exactly what I have been saying...

A Party that starts eating it's own prior to an election, as the Democratics did in 2016 with Clinton v Sanders and is doing now regarding Biden typically loses the election.

If they wanted a different candidate the time to make that happen was years ago, now that ship has sailed. If you want to win this election.  It is clear to the clear thinking that Biden may not win, but by dumping Biden the Democratics will lose the election, and this conversation is not moving the Party forward to victory.

You can ignore history on this type of donnybrook but that is only being very stupid, unless you don't want to win.

A functional party should not be anointing candidates for the presidency that its members don't want anointed and then complain about voter dissatisfaction when they anoint said candidate two years ahead of the general election. Anointing sounds like monarchy even if its only for roughly half the people.

Notice I never mentioned a specific party or candidate.  It's just a general principle.  Could be any party.  But not all party members respond the same way when this happens, apparently.

Somehow, I just think this whole "annointing" meme is incorrect.

You guys talk as though there is some star chamber that is chosing these candidates and forcing them upon you.

That's not how it works.

If you think it does then you are nuts.

You may not like the candidates, which IMO is more you guys listening to the media, both MSM & the internets, and not studying who the candidates really are and what they want to do, but none of them have been "anointed".

They reach the position of favorite to be nominated by years & years & years of hard work, of building connections within the Party, and by gaining the votes in primaries.  In the case of an incumbent President, unless they have really screwed up the Party will most likely nominate them for a second term, and based on past history opposition to this is limited, because no one wants to destroy the Party's chance at the Presidency, al la Reagan in 1976, Kennedy in 1980, Buchanan in 1992.

For some reason, beyond understanding, the Democratic Party is trying to self destruct this year.

I just think you guys are ignorant, politically, crybabies about who is running and your attitudes are unhelpful to get the people in your parties elected.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/president-joe-biden-tests-positive-221548982.html

Joe has become a walking disaster. SMH

PennSpartan wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/news/president-joe-biden-tests-positive-221548982.html

Joe has become a walking disaster. SMH

I had covid last week.. still have a lingering cough.

I'm a beautiful disaster, dude.

PennSpartan wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/news/president-joe-biden-tests-positive-221548982.html

Joe has become a walking disaster. SMH

He just can't catch a break. Terrible debate, Trump sympathy points, bad Lester Holt interview, and now this. It's like some higher power is trying to tell him something...

TravelinMan wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/news/president-joe-biden-tests-positive-221548982.html

Joe has become a walking disaster. SMH

He just can't catch a break.  Terrible debate, Trump sympathy points, bad Lester Holt interview, and now this.  It's like some higher power is trying to tell him something...

I kinda love the fact that y'all suddenly believe that COVID is real.

took about 4 years, but congrats..  

(I'm sure you'll keep President Biden in your thoughts and prayers).

TravelinMan wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/news/president-joe-biden-tests-positive-221548982.html

Joe has become a walking disaster. SMH

He just can't catch a break. Terrible debate, Trump sympathy points, bad Lester Holt interview, and now this. It's like some higher power is trying to tell him something...

Got more and bigger Acts of Congress done than anyone since FDR.

Please sir, can I have another ( 4 years)

You guys are brutal. You would have bitched after Wilt score 100 points that he didn't score 200.

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

He just can't catch a break. Terrible debate, Trump sympathy points, bad Lester Holt interview, and now this. It's like some higher power is trying to tell him something...

Got more and bigger Acts of Congress done than anyone since FDR.

Please sir, can I have another ( 4 years)

You guys are brutal. You would have bitched after Wilt score 100 points that he didn't score 200.

Somehow you still don’t get it. Several people here have tried to explain it to you. This has nothing to do with Biden’s record. He’s done an admirable job. This has to do with his ability to beat Trump. Many Democrats in Congress are calling for him to quit the race. I’ve never seen that before this late in the race. That should concern you, but for some odd reason you turn a blind eye to it.

PennSpartan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Got more and bigger Acts of Congress done than anyone since FDR.

Please sir, can I have another ( 4 years)

You guys are brutal. You would have bitched after Wilt score 100 points that he didn't score 200.

Somehow you still don’t get it. Several people here have tried to explain it to you. This has nothing to do with Biden’s record. He’s done an admirable job. This has to do with his ability to beat Trump. Many Democrats in Congress are calling for him to quit the race. I’ve never seen that before this late in the race. That should concern you, but for some odd reason you turn a blind eye to it.

There's definitely some smoke. And politicians can be front runners, and not want to back (potentially) losing candidates.

Polling must be awful.

I still think there's a chance he exits the race.

PennSpartan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Got more and bigger Acts of Congress done than anyone since FDR.

Please sir, can I have another ( 4 years)

You guys are brutal. You would have bitched after Wilt score 100 points that he didn't score 200.

Somehow you still don’t get it. Several people here have tried to explain it to you. This has nothing to do with Biden’s record. He’s done an admirable job. This has to do with his ability to beat Trump. Many Democrats in Congress are calling for him to quit the race. I’ve never seen that before this late in the race. That should concern you, but for some odd reason you turn a blind eye to it.

Really, I don't understand why so many Democratic Politicians want to hand the Presidency to Trump on a platter.

So, I have some theories, which have nothing but hot air to back them up.

Theory number one is that the big money donors don't like Biden's tax plans and are cutting support for all Democratic candidates.

Theory number two is that this is an internal battle between the "moderates" and the "progressives", with Joe proposing policies the "progressives" like and the "moderates having a hissy fit.

Theory number three is that this is a way for the Democratics to suck some media oxygen away from the 247 Trump-Trump-Trump

What I do know is that every time since 1968 that a political party has had a schism like this before the general election they have lost the general election, so I don't care if Biden is on death's door as long as he can shuffle onto a stage and read a teleprompter. It is stupid to change candidates at this point.

Trapper Gus wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
Somehow you still don’t get it. Several people here have tried to explain it to you. This has nothing to do with Biden’s record. He’s done an admirable job. This has to do with his ability to beat Trump. Many Democrats in Congress are calling for him to quit the race. I’ve never seen that before this late in the race. That should concern you, but for some odd reason you turn a blind eye to it.

Really, I don't understand why so many Democratic Politicians want to hand the Presidency to Trump on a platter.

So, I have some theories, which have nothing but hot air to back them up.

Theory number one is that the big money donors don't like Biden's tax plans and are cutting support for all Democratic candidates.

Theory number two is that this is an internal battle between the "moderates" and the "progressives", with Joe proposing policies the "progressives" like and the "moderates having a hissy fit.

Theory number three is that this is a way for the Democratics to suck some media oxygen away from the 247 Trump-Trump-Trump

What I do know is that every time since 1968 that a political party has had a schism like this before the general election they have lost the general election, so I don't care if Biden is on death's door as long as he can shuffle onto a stage and read a teleprompter. It is stupid to change candidates at this point.

As I said, somehow you don’t get it.

PennSpartan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Really, I don't understand why so many Democratic Politicians want to hand the Presidency to Trump on a platter.

So, I have some theories, which have nothing but hot air to back them up.

Theory number one is that the big money donors don't like Biden's tax plans and are cutting support for all Democratic candidates.

Theory number two is that this is an internal battle between the "moderates" and the "progressives", with Joe proposing policies the "progressives" like and the "moderates having a hissy fit.

Theory number three is that this is a way for the Democratics to suck some media oxygen away from the 247 Trump-Trump-Trump

What I do know is that every time since 1968 that a political party has had a schism like this before the general election they have lost the general election, so I don't care if Biden is on death's door as long as he can shuffle onto a stage and read a teleprompter. It is stupid to change candidates at this point.

As I said, somehow you don’t get it.

Oh, that is so helpful in helping me understand...

I see a bunch of Democratic Politicians signing onto this madness...

I don't have a "why"...

(And don't say "the polls" because politicians are generally smarter than that)

Trapper Gus wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
Somehow you still don’t get it.  Several people here have tried to explain it to you.  This has nothing to do with Biden’s record.  He’s done an admirable job.  This has to do with his ability to beat Trump.  Many Democrats in Congress are calling for him to quit the race.  I’ve never seen that before this late in the race.  That should concern you, but for some odd reason you turn a blind eye to it.  

Really, I don't understand why so many Democratic Politicians want to hand the Presidency to Trump on a platter.

So, I have some theories, which have nothing but hot air to back them up.

Theory number one is that the big money donors don't like Biden's tax plans and are cutting support for all Democratic candidates.

Theory number two is that this is an internal battle between the "moderates" and the "progressives", with Joe proposing policies the "progressives" like and the "moderates having a hissy fit.

Theory number three is that this is a way for the Democratics to suck some media oxygen away from the 247 Trump-Trump-Trump

What I do know is that every time since 1968 that a political party has had a schism like this before the general election they have lost the general election, so I don't care if Biden is on death's door as long as he can shuffle onto a stage and read a teleprompter.  It is stupid to change candidates at this point.

Biden losing to Trump would be bad.  

Changing candidates (and still losing) would be worse.   I could be wrong.

Trapper Gus wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
As I said, somehow you don’t get it.

Oh, that is so helpful in helping me understand...

I see a bunch of Democratic Politicians signing onto this madness...

I don't have a "why"...

(And don't say "the polls" because politicians are generally smarter than that)

I think they have internal (not public) polling, which must be really bad.

NigelUno wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Oh, that is so helpful in helping me understand...

I see a bunch of Democratic Politicians signing onto this madness...

I don't have a "why"...

(And don't say "the polls" because politicians are generally smarter than that)

I think they have internal (not public) polling, which must be really bad.

Sorry, but not buying into the idea that voters are going to vote Republican or not show up because of Biden.

Slightly more willing to accept that they might not vote for Biden when they vote, meaning third party or leaving blank.

Most of the (very dodgy methodically) polling is about who they like, not who they will vote for, and that is a huge difference.

Any politician citing polling is using that as an excuse for something else.

Nancy Pelosi is many things. I've never really cared for her. But she is the definition of a smart politician. If she's telling Puddling Brains he has to go, then it's probably time for him to go.

TravelinMan wrote:Nancy Pelosi is many things.  I've never really cared for her.  But she is the definition of a smart politician.  If she's telling Puddling Brains he has to go, then it's probably time for him to go.

Do you having anything other than hot air to support a definitive belief that she is doing so?

Last I heard she was supporting whatever Biden wants to do, which is known as keeping your powder dry, something she is outstanding at.  To me this really suggests my Theory Number One is the most likely, big money donors' pressure, probably because of taxes.

NigelUno wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Really, I don't understand why so many Democratic Politicians want to hand the Presidency to Trump on a platter.

So, I have some theories, which have nothing but hot air to back them up.

Theory number one is that the big money donors don't like Biden's tax plans and are cutting support for all Democratic candidates.

Theory number two is that this is an internal battle between the "moderates" and the "progressives", with Joe proposing policies the "progressives" like and the "moderates having a hissy fit.

Theory number three is that this is a way for the Democratics to suck some media oxygen away from the 247 Trump-Trump-Trump

What I do know is that every time since 1968 that a political party has had a schism like this before the general election they have lost the general election, so I don't care if Biden is on death's door as long as he can shuffle onto a stage and read a teleprompter.  It is stupid to change candidates at this point.

Biden losing to Trump would be bad.  

Changing candidates (and still losing) would be worse.   I could be wrong.

Look at it this way. Instead of getting better, what if Biden gets worse? He has Covid. He might be weak for a long time. What if he bombs the next interview or speech? What if the next debate is as bad or worse than the last one? What if he loses to Trump and we lose the House and Senate? Do you think a lot of Dems will be asking “Why didn’t you change candidates back in July?”

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:Nancy Pelosi is many things.  I've never really cared for her.  But she is the definition of a smart politician.  If she's telling Puddling Brains he has to go, then it's probably time for him to go.

Do you having anything other than hot air to support a definitive belief that she is doing so?

Last I heard she was supporting whatever Biden wants to do, which is known as keeping your powder dry, something she is outstanding at.  To me this really suggests my Theory Number One is the most likely, big money donors' pressure, probably because of taxes.

You hate MSM so how would you know what she said? It’s being widely reported that she, Schiff, and Schumer asked him to step down.

I get a kick out of the folks still beating the "Biden needs to step down" drum.. y'all are like Tommy Lee rockin' it out. Kudos.

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:Nancy Pelosi is many things.  I've never really cared for her.  But she is the definition of a smart politician.  If she's telling Puddling Brains he has to go, then it's probably time for him to go.

Do you having anything other than hot air to support a definitive belief that she is doing so?

Last I heard she was supporting whatever Biden wants to do, which is known as keeping your powder dry, something she is outstanding at.  To me this really suggests my Theory Number One is the most likely, big money donors' pressure, probably because of taxes.

It's the lead headline on CNN right now, dude.

I know, I know..... main stream media.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Do you having anything other than hot air to support a definitive belief that she is doing so?

Last I heard she was supporting whatever Biden wants to do, which is known as keeping your powder dry, something she is outstanding at.  To me this really suggests my Theory Number One is the most likely, big money donors' pressure, probably because of taxes.

It's the lead headline on CNN right now, dude.

I know, I know..... main stream media.

no way... the mainstream media is running down Biden in an effort to get y'all's christian hero elected?

never seen that before.

PennSpartan wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

Biden losing to Trump would be bad.  

Changing candidates (and still losing) would be worse.   I could be wrong.

Look at it this way. Instead of getting better, what if Biden gets worse? He has Covid. He might be weak for a long time. What if he bombs the next interview or speech? What if the next debate is as bad or worse than the last one? What if he loses to Trump and we lose the House and Senate? Do you think a lot of Dems will be asking “Why didn’t you change candidates back in July?”

The typical outcome with a schism of this kind is that the Party gets taken to the cleaners, all the professionals know this.

It is already too late, as you have noted.

I just don't get why.

As I said in my last post, big Democratic donor's backing out is my best guess, and my best guess as to why is their taxes going up under Biden's proposals.

Anyway, I also know that the better choice is the lose with Biden by a little rather than being taken to the woodshed, which is the most likely happening without Biden.

All the "lets switch" people have this strange idea that this is like a RR train decoupling one car and coupling on another.

That is not what will happen, if they dump Biden.

There will be 2 to 5 different groups all shouting for their candidate to be the "car coupled to the train". A real donnybrook, causing the voters to go; WTF, regarding the Party as a whole, not vote for them.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Do you having anything other than hot air to support a definitive belief that she is doing so?

Last I heard she was supporting whatever Biden wants to do, which is known as keeping your powder dry, something she is outstanding at.  To me this really suggests my Theory Number One is the most likely, big money donors' pressure, probably because of taxes.

It's the lead headline on CNN right now, dude.

I know, I know..... main stream media.

Trapper and Bob still don’t know JFK was shot because they don’t follow mainstream media. Or maybe they think it was staged.

PennSpartan wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

It's the lead headline on CNN right now, dude.

I know, I know..... main stream media.

Trapper and Bob still don’t know JFK was shot because they don’t follow mainstream media. Or maybe they think it was staged.

don't worry, dude - your collection of mainstream media outlets will make sure your christian hero gets elected.

PennSpartan wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

It's the lead headline on CNN right now, dude.

I know, I know..... main stream media.

Trapper and Bob still don’t know JFK was shot because they don’t follow mainstream media. Or maybe they think it was staged.

Peen, do you not know that the MSM is a coherent mob that all say the same thing once a story shows it gets "clicks"

They are in the business of selling ads, not informing you. They are entertainment.

You should know that.

Bob does.

Trapper Gus wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
Look at it this way. Instead of getting better, what if Biden gets worse? He has Covid. He might be weak for a long time. What if he bombs the next interview or speech? What if the next debate is as bad or worse than the last one? What if he loses to Trump and we lose the House and Senate? Do you think a lot of Dems will be asking “Why didn’t you change candidates back in July?”

The typical outcome with a schism of this kind is that the Party gets taken to the cleaners, all the professionals know this.

It is already too late, as you have noted.

I just don't get why.

As I said in my last post, big Democratic donor's backing out is my best guess, and my best guess as to why is their taxes going up under Biden's proposals.

Anyway, I also know that the better choice is the lose with Biden by a little rather than being taken to the woodshed, which is the most likely happening without Biden.

All the "lets switch" people have this strange idea that this is like a RR train decoupling one car and coupling on another.

That is not what will happen, if they dump Biden.

There will be 2 to 5 different groups all shouting for their candidate to be the "car coupled to the train". A real donnybrook, causing the voters to go; WTF, regarding the Party as a whole, not vote for them.

Please point out a “schism” like this that happened in the past. I don’t recall one in my lifetime.

Let’s be honest. The same number of people who will vote for Biden will vote for Harris, Whitmer, Pete, etc.

It’s about bringing people on board who won’t vote for Biden. The race is that close. But hey, let’s be stubborn and stick with the guy who has a glaring weakness, gives the GOP a talking point to hammer for 4 months, and is one horrible public performance away from putting a nail in his own election coffin.

Yeah, let’s gamble. The stakes aren’t really that high.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
Trapper and Bob still don’t know JFK was shot because they don’t follow mainstream media. Or maybe they think it was staged.

don't worry, dude - your collection of mainstream media outlets will make sure your christian hero gets elected.

Sure.

As the President of CBS said in 2016. Trump isn't qualified to wipe his own ass, but he is making a ton of money for us so we will ride the train.

Trapper Gus wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
Trapper and Bob still don’t know JFK was shot because they don’t follow mainstream media. Or maybe they think it was staged.

Peen, do you not know that the MSM is a coherent mob that all say the same thing once a story shows it gets "clicks"

They are in the business of selling ads, not informing you. They are entertainment.

You should know that.

Bob does.

when you can separate yourself from things like political ideology, religion, popular opinion rooted in and promoted by the intellectually vulnerable, etc., it's pretty easy to step back and observe the obvious.

Trapper Gus wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
Trapper and Bob still don’t know JFK was shot because they don’t follow mainstream media. Or maybe they think it was staged.

Peen, do you not know that the MSM is a coherent mob that all say the same thing once a story shows it gets "clicks"

They are in the business of selling ads, not informing you. They are entertainment.

You should know that.

Bob does.

No, that’s nonsense. I get my weather from MSM. Same with sports. And the news. It’s where I learned of Covid, for example. You and Bob just make shit up.

kingstonlake wrote:Let’s be honest. The same number of people who will vote for Biden will vote for Harris, Whitmer, Pete, etc.

It’s about bringing people on board who won’t vote for Biden. The race is that close. But hey, let’s be stubborn and stick with the guy who has a glaring weakness, gives the GOP a talking point to hammer for 4 months, and is one horrible public performance away from putting a nail in his own election coffin.

Yeah, let’s gamble. The stakes aren’t really that high.

I agree with you - but if you think the republicans/libertarians and the mainstream media are creating a circus with the "Biden is old" mantra, just wait until when/if he steps aside.

it'll make their current efforts look like a trip to Disney World.

PennSpartan wrote:
Trapper and Bob still don’t know JFK was shot because they don’t follow mainstream media. Or maybe they think it was staged.

And what about the moon landings? Trapper was around then, wonder if he watched Walter Cronkite. Bob probably thinks they were staged.

kingstonlake wrote:Let’s be honest. The same number of people who will vote for Biden will vote for Harris, Whitmer, Pete, etc.

It’s about bringing people on board who won’t vote for Biden. The race is that close. But hey, let’s be stubborn and stick with the guy who has a glaring weakness, gives the GOP a talking point to hammer for 4 months, and is one horrible public performance away from putting a nail in his own election coffin.

Yeah, let’s gamble. The stakes aren’t really that high.

Thank you. Well said.