I’m the Democratic Party

In 2016 I asked for the change that was promised. I got the anointing of Hillary Clinton. In 2020 I asked for the change that was promised. I got Joe Biden. In 2024 I asked for the change that was promised. I got the anointing of Kamala Harris and no change to priorities or platform. If you’re surprised at this outcome you haven’t really been paying attention. The energy on the left is not where the party has been for a decade or more. We want real progressive policies not an ever rightward drifting center. Americans wanted change and only one candidate offered that. He won. Fuck the DNC and Democratic leadership. Retire you old fucks.

I was just trying to figure out who the leader of the party was. I don’t think we have one

DWags wrote:I was just trying to figure out who the leader of the party was. I don’t think we have one

As of right now, I think it's still Nancy Pelosi.

Rocinante wrote:In 2016 I asked for the change that was promised. I got the anointing of Hillary Clinton. In 2020 I asked for the change that was promised. I got Joe Biden. In 2024 I asked for the change that was promised. I got the anointing of Kamala Harris and no change to priorities or platform. If you’re surprised at this outcome you haven’t really been paying attention. The energy on the left is not where the party has been for a decade or more. We want real progressive policies not an ever rightward drifting center. Americans wanted change and only one candidate offered that. He won. Fuck the DNC and Democratic leadership. Retire you old fucks.

When you can figure out how to get a Progressive to win the nomination, you can have the party. Your turn, AOC.

Heat Miser wrote:

DWags wrote:I was just trying to figure out who the leader of the party was. I don’t think we have one

As of right now, I think it's still Nancy Pelosi.

That’s as good of a guess as any I’ve heard or read today. The fact that it’s hard to name the leader might speak volumes as to why we lose elections

DWags wrote:

Heat Miser wrote:

DWags wrote:I was just trying to figure out who the leader of the party was. I don’t think we have one

As of right now, I think it's still Nancy Pelosi.

That’s as good of a guess as any I’ve heard or read today. The fact that it’s hard to name the leader might speak volumes as to why we lose elections

We lose elections because Dems are terrible at countering Republican messaging. Always have been.

In 2009 when Obama took office, Pennsylvania was 51% registered Democrats, and 36% registered Republicans. This year that margin has narrowed to 44%-40% in favor of Dems. Democrats are losing people. That should be a major concern.

Heat Miser wrote:

DWags wrote:

That’s as good of a guess as any I’ve heard or read today. The fact that it’s hard to name the leader might speak volumes as to why we lose elections

We lose elections because Dems are terrible at countering Republican messaging. Always have been.

Learning to lie on a grander scale with conviction would help.

The GOP lies, their voters don't care.  Trump's treats women poorly and they don't care.  He gets convicted of crimes and they don't care.  He refused to allow State Department translators in the room when he met with Putin and they don't care.

Trump is 2-1 and the two wins were against women the Democrats nominated.  To me it means there is a significant number of women voters who don't vote for what some see as their self-interest.

I've come to the conclusion that billionaires like Putin, Xi, Musk, Bezos, Zuckerberg, Johnson (of Johnson&Johnson), DeVos and at least 100 others see Trump as a useful idiot who will appoint judges they've already approved, appoint cabinet secretaries who will roll back regulations and willingly sign favorable tax bills their funded legislators pass in the US House and Senate.

They have gotten the government they paid for.

Rocinante wrote:In 2016 I asked for the change that was promised. I got the anointing of Hillary Clinton. In 2020 I asked for the change that was promised. I got Joe Biden. In 2024 I asked for the change that was promised. I got the anointing of Kamala Harris and no change to priorities or platform. If you’re surprised at this outcome you haven’t really been paying attention. The energy on the left is not where the party has been for a decade or more. We want real progressive policies not an ever rightward drifting center. Americans wanted change and only one candidate offered that. He won. Fuck the DNC and Democratic leadership. Retire you old fucks.

I dunno, that sounds like Monday morning quarterbacking. Nobody could have seen this coming, and we can't possibly know what we should do about it. We are helpless and stupid. We are Democrats.

Cameron wrote:

Rocinante wrote:In 2016 I asked for the change that was promised. I got the anointing of Hillary Clinton. In 2020 I asked for the change that was promised. I got Joe Biden. In 2024 I asked for the change that was promised. I got the anointing of Kamala Harris and no change to priorities or platform. If you’re surprised at this outcome you haven’t really been paying attention. The energy on the left is not where the party has been for a decade or more. We want real progressive policies not an ever rightward drifting center. Americans wanted change and only one candidate offered that. He won. Fuck the DNC and Democratic leadership. Retire you old fucks.

I dunno, that sounds like Monday morning quarterbacking. Nobody could have seen this coming, and we can't possibly know what we should do about it. We are helpless and stupid. We are Democrats.

Harris would have lost all the Jewish vote if she had gone any stronger at Israel's actions on Gaza. That war was a gift from Netanyahu to the Repubmicans.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Cameron wrote:

Rocinante wrote:In 2016 I asked for the change that was promised. I got the anointing of Hillary Clinton. In 2020 I asked for the change that was promised. I got Joe Biden. In 2024 I asked for the change that was promised. I got the anointing of Kamala Harris and no change to priorities or platform. If you’re surprised at this outcome you haven’t really been paying attention. The energy on the left is not where the party has been for a decade or more. We want real progressive policies not an ever rightward drifting center. Americans wanted change and only one candidate offered that. He won. Fuck the DNC and Democratic leadership. Retire you old fucks.

I dunno, that sounds like Monday morning quarterbacking. Nobody could have seen this coming, and we can't possibly know what we should do about it. We are helpless and stupid. We are Democrats.

Harris would have lost all the Jewish vote if she had gone any stronger at Israel's actions on Gaza. That war was a gift from Netanyahu to the Repubmicans.

This is patently false. First, most Jews are not in swing states. More importantly, when polled, Jews ranked Israel/Gaza 9th out of their top 10 issues. Conversely, committing to halting arms/aid to Israel until a cease fire & withdrawal from Gaza was achieved polls very well and would've separated her from Biden.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Cameron wrote:

I dunno, that sounds like Monday morning quarterbacking. Nobody could have seen this coming, and we can't possibly know what we should do about it. We are helpless and stupid. We are Democrats.

Harris would have lost all the Jewish vote if she had gone any stronger at Israel's actions on Gaza. That war was a gift from Netanyahu to the Repubmicans.

Believe it or not, Mr. Blue Wave, but many Jewish Americans oppose what Israel is doing in Gaza, so she most certainly would not have lost all the Jewish vote. But we all know what your opinion on electoral politics is worth: absolutely fucking nothing.

Cameron wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Harris would have lost all the Jewish vote if she had gone any stronger at Israel's actions on Gaza. That war was a gift from Netanyahu to the Repubmicans.

Believe it or not, Mr. Blue Wave, but many Jewish Americans oppose what Israel is doing in Gaza, so she most certainly would not have lost all the Jewish vote. But we all know what your opinion on electoral politics is worth: absolutely fucking nothing.

So the two progressive members of Congress who lost primaries due to AIPAC aren't on you guys radar.

PennSpartan wrote:In 2009 when Obama took office, Pennsylvania was 51% registered Democrats, and 36% registered Republicans.  This year that margin has narrowed to 44%-40% in favor of Dems.  Democrats are losing people.  That should be a major concern.

I blame you, the former Democrat canvasser that lives in Pennsylvania.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Cameron wrote:

Believe it or not, Mr. Blue Wave, but many Jewish Americans oppose what Israel is doing in Gaza, so she most certainly would not have lost all the Jewish vote. But we all know what your opinion on electoral politics is worth: absolutely fucking nothing.

So the two progressive members of Congress who lost primaries due to AIPAC aren't on you guys radar.

AIPAC =/= Jewish voters

I would dare say it is actually antisemitism to conflate the two. But that word has become virtually meaningless over the last year or so.

Heat Miser wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Harris would have lost all the Jewish vote if she had gone any stronger at Israel's actions on Gaza. That war was a gift from Netanyahu to the Repubmicans.

This is patently false. First, most Jews are not in swing states. More importantly, when polled, Jews ranked Israel/Gaza 9th out of their top 10 issues. Conversely, committing to halting arms/aid to Israel until a cease fire & withdrawal from Gaza was achieved polls very well and would've separated her from Biden.

Where did her big donors come from? (I honestly don’t know, but wonder if that was a reason).

Cameron wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

So the two progressive members of Congress who lost primaries due to AIPAC aren't on you guys radar.

AIPAC =/= Jewish voters

I would dare say it is actually antisemitism to conflate the two. But that word has become virtually meaningless over the last year or so.

Why is it you get to make baseless claims while I have to back mine up?  One of the major mysteries of the internet.

Okay, sure, and the NRA doesn't influence how gun owners vote.

Regardless of AIPAC's influnance on Jewish voters, which I believe that you underestimate, since they're have over 3 million members, they feed the lifeblood of politics, money, only to those politicians who support Israel.

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/how-much-money-and-influence-does-aipac-wield/

Cameron wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Harris would have lost all the Jewish vote if she had gone any stronger at Israel's actions on Gaza. That war was a gift from Netanyahu to the Repubmicans.

Believe it or not, Mr. Blue Wave, but many Jewish Americans oppose what Israel is doing in Gaza, so she most certainly would not have lost all the Jewish vote. But we all know what your opinion on electoral politics is worth: absolutely fucking nothing.

Interesting

Amid a sometimes raucous public debate around U.S. support for Israel, 85% of American Jewish adults believe it is important for the U.S. to support Israel in the aftermath of October 7 and 57% of American Jews report feeling more connected to Israel or their Jewish identity after October 7 than before. When asked what they have done to feel connected, 17% said they have attended synagogue or synagogue events since Hamas’ attack.

“Despite rising antisemitism making Jews feel less safe, American Jews are defiantly proud about who they are and even more connected to Israel,” said AJC CEO Ted Deutch.


Since Oct 7 many American Jews feel deeply connected to Israel.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Cameron wrote:

AIPAC =/= Jewish voters

I would dare say it is actually antisemitism to conflate the two. But that word has become virtually meaningless over the last year or so.

Why is it you get to make baseless claims while I have to back mine up?  One of the major mysteries of the internet.

Okay, sure, and the NRA doesn't influence how gun owners vote.

Regardless of AIPAC's influnance on Jewish voters, which I believe that you underestimate, since they're have over 3 million members, they feed the lifeblood of politics, money, only to those politicians who support Israel.

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/how-much-money-and-influence-does-aipac-wield/

I know what AIPAC is and what they do. They advance the interests of the state of Israel. The interests of the state of Israel are not the same as the interests of the Jewish people writ large.

DWags wrote:

Cameron wrote:

Believe it or not, Mr. Blue Wave, but many Jewish Americans oppose what Israel is doing in Gaza, so she most certainly would not have lost all the Jewish vote. But we all know what your opinion on electoral politics is worth: absolutely fucking nothing.

Interesting

Amid a sometimes raucous public debate around U.S. support for Israel, 85% of American Jewish adults believe it is important for the U.S. to support Israel in the aftermath of October 7 and 57% of American Jews report feeling more connected to Israel or their Jewish identity after October 7 than before. When asked what they have done to feel connected, 17% said they have attended synagogue or synagogue events since Hamas’ attack.

“Despite rising antisemitism making Jews feel less safe, American Jews are defiantly proud about who they are and even more connected to Israel,” said AJC CEO Ted Deutch.


Since Oct 7 many American Jews feel deeply connected to Israel.

"Support for Israel" is a nebulous phrase that means different things to different people. Regardless, 85% is not 100%. Trapper said "Harris would have lost all the Jewish vote." (emphasis mine) That is false.

But what percent of the Muslim and Arab American vote did she lose by doing what she did? Somehow, you turds don't seem too concerned about that.

Losers who love losing.

PennSpartan wrote:

Rocinante wrote:In 2016 I asked for the change that was promised. I got the anointing of Hillary Clinton. In 2020 I asked for the change that was promised. I got Joe Biden. In 2024 I asked for the change that was promised. I got the anointing of Kamala Harris and no change to priorities or platform. If you’re surprised at this outcome you haven’t really been paying attention. The energy on the left is not where the party has been for a decade or more. We want real progressive policies not an ever rightward drifting center. Americans wanted change and only one candidate offered that. He won. Fuck the DNC and Democratic leadership. Retire you old fucks.

When you can figure out how to get a Progressive to win the nomination, you can have the party.  Your turn, AOC.

Listen close. Many Trumpers were Bernie supporters. Why? Populism. Progressive populism isn’t that far from authoritarian populism.  It’s the leadership in the party preventing us from moving where the rank and file want to go.

Cameron wrote:

DWags wrote:



Interesting

Amid a sometimes raucous public debate around U.S. support for Israel, 85% of American Jewish adults believe it is important for the U.S. to support Israel in the aftermath of October 7 and 57% of American Jews report feeling more connected to Israel or their Jewish identity after October 7 than before. When asked what they have done to feel connected, 17% said they have attended synagogue or synagogue events since Hamas’ attack.

“Despite rising antisemitism making Jews feel less safe, American Jews are defiantly proud about who they are and even more connected to Israel,” said AJC CEO Ted Deutch.


Since Oct 7 many American Jews feel deeply connected to Israel.

"Support for Israel" is a nebulous phrase that means different things to different people. Regardless, 85% is not 100%. Trapper said "Harris would have lost all the Jewish vote." (emphasis mine) That is false.

But what percent of the Muslim and Arab American vote did she lose by doing what she did? Somehow, you turds don't seem too concerned about that.

Losers who love losing.

Only 85%.  Well excuse me.

As for the Arab vote, I expect most of them, except the unaware, will regret Trump's victory.

Netanyahu put Biden & the Democratic Party between a rock and a hard place. Their only choice was which votes did they lose.

Rocinante wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
When you can figure out how to get a Progressive to win the nomination, you can have the party.  Your turn, AOC.

Listen close. Many Trumpers were Bernie supporters. Why? Populism. Progressive populism isn’t that far from authoritarian populism.  It’s the leadership in the party preventing us from moving where the rank and file want to go.

Nonsense. Bernie and his horseshit haven’t accomplished anything. He’s like a preacher who keeps say “believe!”. I’ll believe you and your progressive buddies when you actually win the Democratic nomination.

PennSpartan wrote:

Rocinante wrote:

Listen close. Many Trumpers were Bernie supporters. Why? Populism. Progressive populism isn’t that far from authoritarian populism.  It’s the leadership in the party preventing us from moving where the rank and file want to go.

Nonsense. Bernie and his horseshit haven’t accomplished anything. He’s like a preacher who keeps say “believe!”. I’ll believe you and your progressive buddies when you actually win the Democratic nomination.

Good for you. You’re not my audience.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Cameron wrote:

"Support for Israel" is a nebulous phrase that means different things to different people. Regardless, 85% is not 100%. Trapper said "Harris would have lost all the Jewish vote." (emphasis mine) That is false.

But what percent of the Muslim and Arab American vote did she lose by doing what she did? Somehow, you turds don't seem too concerned about that.

Losers who love losing.

Only 85%.  Well excuse me.

As for the Arab vote, I expect most of them, except the unaware, will regret Trump's victory.

Netanyahu put Biden & the Democratic Party between a rock and a hard place. Their only choice was which votes did they lose.

Then it was very smart for the Biden administration to continuously reiterate their ironclad support for Bibi's regime no matter what atrocities they were committing. Definitely the smartest possible strategy they could have pursued.

PennSpartan wrote:

Rocinante wrote:

Listen close. Many Trumpers were Bernie supporters. Why? Populism. Progressive populism isn’t that far from authoritarian populism.  It’s the leadership in the party preventing us from moving where the rank and file want to go.

Nonsense. Bernie and his horseshit haven’t accomplished anything. He’s like a preacher who keeps say “believe!”. I’ll believe you and your progressive buddies when you actually win the Democratic nomination.

There is a skisum in the American psychic, we all want to be strong independent people but we sometimes want goverment help. We seem unable to square that circle with our political choices.

Cameron wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Only 85%.  Well excuse me.

As for the Arab vote, I expect most of them, except the unaware, will regret Trump's victory.

Netanyahu put Biden & the Democratic Party between a rock and a hard place.  Their only choice was which votes did they lose.

Then it was very smart for the Biden administration to continuously reiterate their ironclad support for Bibi's regime no matter what atrocities they were committing. Definitely the smartest possible strategy they could have pursued.

Cam, we have been over this ground.  Let me just say the as President Biden is obligated, or at least he should be unless you want him to act like Trump, to act on the interests of The United States above his own political interests.

Cameron wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Only 85%.  Well excuse me.

As for the Arab vote, I expect most of them, except the unaware, will regret Trump's victory.

Netanyahu put Biden & the Democratic Party between a rock and a hard place. Their only choice was which votes did they lose.

Then it was very smart for the Biden administration to continuously reiterate their ironclad support for Bibi's regime no matter what atrocities they were committing. Definitely the smartest possible strategy they could have pursued.

You still on this Palestine shit? Do you have cousins there or something? Trump is going to wipe Gaza off the face of the earth. Get ready.

PennSpartan wrote:

Cameron wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Only 85%.  Well excuse me.

As for the Arab vote, I expect most of them, except the unaware, will regret Trump's victory.

Netanyahu put Biden & the Democratic Party between a rock and a hard place. Their only choice was which votes did they lose.

Then it was very smart for the Biden administration to continuously reiterate their ironclad support for Bibi's regime no matter what atrocities they were committing. Definitely the smartest possible strategy they could have pursued.

You still on this Palestine shit? Do you have cousins there or something? Trump is going to wipe Gaza off the face of the earth. Get ready.

The crusade against brown people at home and abroad starts in earnest on 1/20/2025.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Cameron wrote:

Then it was very smart for the Biden administration to continuously reiterate their ironclad support for Bibi's regime no matter what atrocities they were committing. Definitely the smartest possible strategy they could have pursued.

Cam, we have been over this ground.  Let me just say the as President Biden is obligated, or at least he should be unless you want him to act like Trump, to act on the interests of The United States above his own political interests.

His Israel policy has served American interests very poorly. And it is at least partly to thank for a second term of Trump, which is extremely deleterious to the interests of the US.

But thanks, as always, for the expert analysis, Mr. Blue Wave.

PennSpartan wrote:

Cameron wrote:

Then it was very smart for the Biden administration to continuously reiterate their ironclad support for Bibi's regime no matter what atrocities they were committing. Definitely the smartest possible strategy they could have pursued.

You still on this Palestine shit? Do you have cousins there or something? Trump is going to wipe Gaza off the face of the earth. Get ready.

Nope, I don't know anyone of Palestinian descent personally, as far as I'm aware. But I don't appreciate my tax dollars funding a genocide. I don't like it when Biden is doing it, and I will probably like it even less when Trump does it more, harder, faster, and dumber. That's why I voted for Kamala, but alas...

Cameron wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
You still on this Palestine shit? Do you have cousins there or something? Trump is going to wipe Gaza off the face of the earth. Get ready.

Nope, I don't know anyone of Palestinian descent personally, as far as I'm aware. But I don't appreciate my tax dollars funding a genocide. I don't like it when Biden is doing it, and I will probably like it even less when Trump does it more, harder, faster, and dumber. That's why I voted for Kamala, but alas...

The U.S. has been supporting Israel for decades militarily. Nothing has changed. I have no use for Israel myself, but I wasn’t willing to fuck up the election to support Palestine. They are both like flies on my dinner. Where’s the swatter?

Cameron wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Cam, we have been over this ground.  Let me just say the as President Biden is obligated, or at least he should be unless you want him to act like Trump, to act on the interests of The United States above his own political interests.

His Israel policy has served American interests very poorly. And it is at least partly to thank for a second term of Trump, which is extremely deleterious to the interests of the US.

But thanks, as always, for the expert analysis, Mr. Blue Wave.

That might be a better argument if you explained how the America interests were poorly served.

Trump getting elected is both not necessarily against the interests of the United States, and over 50% of the voters think it isn't, nor is it an argument that Biden could use to define his actions.

The United States is involved in a complex situation with Russia, China, Iran, North Korea and many others. It is in the interests of the United States that Iran and its proxy armies be reduced or destroyed. Israel is working to get some of that done. It is also in the interests of the United States that we suffer as little PR damage as possible for the collateral damage done in this effort. The ongoing attempts to broker a cease fire provide for some of that plausible deniability. I not saying for sure this is Biden and the United States plan, I am just putting it on here as a plausible idea and to point out the complexity of the situation and how it may not be what we think it is.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Cameron wrote:

His Israel policy has served American interests very poorly. And it is at least partly to thank for a second term of Trump, which is extremely deleterious to the interests of the US.

But thanks, as always, for the expert analysis, Mr. Blue Wave.

That might be a better argument if you explained how the America interests were poorly served.

Trump getting elected is both not necessarily against the interests of the United States, and over 50% of the voters think it isn't, nor is it an argument that Biden could use to define his actions.

The United States is involved in a complex situation with Russia, China, Iran, North Korea and many others. It is in the interests of the United States that Iran and its proxy armies be reduced or destroyed. Israel is working to get some of that done. It is also in the interests of the United States that we suffer as little PR damage as possible for the collateral damage done in this effort. The ongoing attempts to broker a cease fire provide for some of that plausible deniability. I not saying for sure this is Biden and the United States plan, I am just putting it on here as a plausible idea and to point out the complexity of the situation and how it may not be what we think it is.

We have spent billions upon billions of dollars helping to kill innocent civilians, lowering our standing in the eyes of the world, and helping to get Trump back in office. You may not be comfortable saying that a Trump presidency is against the interests of America, but I am extremely comfortable taking that position. And what have we gained? Is there peace in the middle east? Has respect for international law and order increased? Do you feel safer today than you did 13 months ago? Are Jewish people safer? Is antisemitism decreasing?

Literally nothing good has come from our Israel policy over the last year. Not one fucking thing.

Cameron wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

That might be a better argument if you explained how the America interests were poorly served.

Trump getting elected is both not necessarily against the interests of the United States, and over 50% of the voters think it isn't, nor is it an argument that Biden could use to define his actions.

The United States is involved in a complex situation with Russia, China, Iran, North Korea and many others.  It is in the interests of the United States that Iran and its proxy armies be reduced or destroyed.  Israel is working to get some of that done.  It is also in the interests of the United States that we suffer as little PR damage as possible for the collateral damage done in this effort.  The ongoing attempts to broker a cease fire provide for some of that plausible deniability.  I not saying for sure this is Biden and the United States plan, I am just putting it on here as a plausible idea and to point out the complexity of the situation and how it may not be what we think it is.

We have spent billions upon billions of dollars helping to kill innocent civilians, lowering our standing in the eyes of the world, and helping to get Trump back in office. You may not be comfortable saying that a Trump presidency is against the interests of America, but I am extremely comfortable taking that position. And what have we gained? Is there peace in the middle east? Has respect for international law and order increased? Do you feel safer today than you did 13 months ago? Are Jewish people safer? Is antisemitism decreasing?

Literally nothing good has come from our Israel policy over the last year. Not one fucking thing.

The middle east is in a war that started at during World War One and has been ongoing in some degree of hot or cold ever since, and you are faulting the United Ststes for not fixing it in a day or two.

Look I know you have said you play an ah on here but you could at least apply a teaspoon of logic to your posts.

I have thought, and now said, that Biden may be privately okaying what Netanyahu is doing in support of some longer term goal. If that is the case he is also working to minimize, and not eliminate, since that isn't possible, diplomatic or PR damage to the United States

Trapper Gus wrote:

Cameron wrote:

We have spent billions upon billions of dollars helping to kill innocent civilians, lowering our standing in the eyes of the world, and helping to get Trump back in office. You may not be comfortable saying that a Trump presidency is against the interests of America, but I am extremely comfortable taking that position. And what have we gained? Is there peace in the middle east? Has respect for international law and order increased? Do you feel safer today than you did 13 months ago? Are Jewish people safer? Is antisemitism decreasing?

Literally nothing good has come from our Israel policy over the last year. Not one fucking thing.

The middle east is in a war that started at during World War One and has been ongoing in some degree of hot or cold ever since, and you are faulting the United Ststes for not fixing it in a day or two.

Look I know you have said you play an ah on here but you could at least apply a teaspoon of logic to your posts.

Nowhere did I ever say I expected it to get fixed in a day or two. There is a vast gulf between arming and funding a genocide and instantly solving peace in the middle east. For a nuance worshipper such as yourself, this should be much easier to grasp.

Cameron,
Fact is the GOP voters will cheer Trump when Netanyahu (who has now fired his Defense Minister) amps up military action to wipe out anyone who doesn’t leave Gaza and probably portions of southern Lebanon.

The Spanish speaking GOP voters (some of whom voted for Trump) will cheer as their green card carrying neighbors and some US citizens get caught up in immigration sweeps. (Look up Operation Wet Back)

The GOP voters will cheer if Trump’s tariffs are implemented and blame Democrats for ensuing inflation.

Just the way it is.

I agree with all of that.

I'm not sure what your point is.

Can someone explain to me what position Harris could have taken on Israel that would have won her the election? I’m kidding I know there isn’t one.