Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates

Graham, a South Carolina Republican, requested the hearing. He pointed out several times the automotive industry’s importance to the state. South Carolina is a national leader in vehicle assembly and the top tire exporter in the country, according to the state’s Department of Commerce.

Graham said the future of vehicle manufacturing is in electric vehicles and urged policies to remain competitive in the global automobile market.

His position was out of step from many in his party.

Republicans have voiced opposition to increased electric vehicle manufacturing and many oppose President Joe Biden’s goal of having 50% of vehicle sales be electric by 2030. Former President Donald Trump opposes Biden’s support of electric vehicles and said it would ruin the economies of automaker states.

But Graham, a Trump ally and a staunchly conservative lawmaker, embraced the idea of U.S. electric vehicle manufacturing and looked to strengthen U.S. infrastructure.

“So the bottom line is: This is coming, whether we like it or not,” Graham said. “And I think there’s an upside to it, to be honest with you.”

According to Goldman Sachs (via Yahoo Finance), the estimated battery cost for last year is a bit higher at $151/kWh, but what’s important here is that the same estimates show a further 40% decline in battery prices between 2023 and 2025, opening the door for much more affordable EVs that will finally undercut their gasoline counterparts and, at the same time, turn a profit for their makers. A study from the International Council On Clean Transportation previously showed that EVs will cost the same as ICE vehicles by 2029 thanks to an oversupply of lithium.

Trapper Gus wrote:Here is another "rah rah" article about inexpensive Chinese EVs.

Price is $10k to $12k

Elon claims they have every bit as much quality as US cars...

Given the quality of Teslas (poor) I'm not seeing that as a ringing endorsement.

As a 35 year veteran of the US automotive supply base I have been part of the US OEMs raising their form, fit & functional quality, forced to by Japanese vehicle quality in the most competitive market on the globe.

Also have experience with how the Chinese think about quality and their buyer beware markets.

Even at the almost throw away price these cars will brand the Chinese products as not worth owning in the US markets unless they have a sudden come to Jesus moment on form, fit & function quality.

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/chinese-electric-car-byd-seagull-us/

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:Here is another "rah rah" article about inexpensive Chinese EVs.

Price is $10k to $12k

Elon claims they have every bit as much quality as US cars...

Given the quality of Teslas (poor) I'm not seeing that as a ringing endorsement.

As a 35 year veteran of the US automotive supply base I have been part of the US OEMs raising their form, fit & functional quality, forced to by Japanese vehicle quality in the most competitive market on the globe.

Also have experience with how the Chinese think about quality and their buyer beware markets.

Even at the almost throw away price these cars will brand the Chinese products as not worth owning in the US markets unless they have a sudden come to Jesus moment on form, fit & function quality.

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/chinese-electric-car-byd-seagull-us/

Well, given the quality of Elon’s cars, that’s not saying much.

EVgo, one of the nation's largest charging networks, is rolling out efforts to diagnose equipment issues in real time as part of a broader plan to replace outdated chargers and improve customer service, the company tells Axios exclusively.

Why it matters: While the number of public chargers continues to grow, many networks still aren't reliable enough to ease the public's charging anxiety — a leading concern about EVs.

Michigan is an EV adoption laggard

Only two Michigan counties topped 1% EV ownership: Washtenaw, with 1.74%, and Oakland, with 1.5%.

Oakland County by far has the most EVs: 15,871, but also far more residents than Washtenaw (1.2 million), while Wayne County has nearly 7,300 EVs among its 1.7 million residents.

Those figures underscore Michigan’s slowpoke adoption of EVs even while the state’s automakers rush to produce them.

Nationally, 1.3% of drivers own an EV and 9% of new-car buyers are choosing one. Michigan is below average on both metrics, with an EV ownership rate of 0.63% and a 3.2% share of the new car market.

Compare that to California, the nation’s EV adoption leader, where EVs make up nearly a quarter of all new vehicle purchases and 5% of cars on the road.

Trapper Gus wrote:The new car from Arizona carmaker Lucid has an EPA-rated range of 511 miles on a single charge, meaning that we’re now well into the territory where “range anxiety” will become a thing of the past. And as battery “energy density” continues to increase while prices fall, 400-700 mile ranges for electric vehicles will probably be commonplace within a few years.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:The new car from Arizona carmaker Lucid has an EPA-rated range of 511 miles on a single charge, meaning that we’re now well into the territory where “range anxiety” will become a thing of the past. And as battery “energy density” continues to increase while prices fall, 400-700 mile ranges for electric vehicles will probably be commonplace within a few years.

In order to get that 512 mile range (not 511 - don't sell your self short here) you need to pony up for the Lucid Air Grand Touring model, the cheapest of which I could find on their website is an eye watering $122K.

So yay!  Progress???

Trapper Gus wrote:

A few years ago, you couldn't find that sort of driving range at any price, so from infinite dollars to $122k is an almost infinite drop in price.

Rick Saunders wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

A few years ago, you couldn't find that sort of driving range at any price, so from infinite dollars to $122k is an almost infinite drop in price.

Sorry to correct your arithmetic but infinity - 122,000 = infinity

DWags wrote:I doubt I’ll ever buy an electric car. However I’ve got about 5-10 years of cycle riding left in me.  Check this self balancing motorcycle out.   Perfect for my trips from Detroit to Manistee or to East Lansing or when I go to  games in various ares by myself.  Could carry my luggage.   I doubt it though. Maybe you young guys for trips on your own.


Self balancing electric motorcycle

Believe it or not, electric bikes offer more exercise than pedal bikes on average. That fact might sound strange (and has been known to let the steam out of some fitness riders’ lycra outfits), but the science is clear. Now let’s talk about the “how” and “why”.

Study after study have shown that people who ride e-bikes get more exercise than those who ride pedal bikes.

That finding grinds the gears of traditional cyclists who seem to hold an “us vs them” attitude in cycling, but it’s a result that has been repeatedly demonstrated across many different countries and cultures.

GRR Spartan wrote:Based on what I've seen around my place in the hinterlands, e-bikes should offer cardio benefits because the people are riding w/o helmets @ 15-20 mph on 2 lane pave country roads with no bike lanes and signfifcant large road construction/harvest truck traffic.

Hell, my BP jumps 15-20 points when I see the oblivious retiree MF'ers riding down the middle road with a line of traffic behind them.

GRR Spartan wrote:Based on what I've seen around my place in the hinterlands, e-bikes should offer cardio benefits because the people are riding w/o helmets @ 15-20 mph on 2 lane pave country roads with no bike lanes and signfifcant large road construction/harvest truck traffic.

Hell, my BP jumps 15-20 points when I see the oblivious retiree MF'ers riding down the middle road with a line of traffic behind them.

Jake from State Farm wrote:

GRR Spartan wrote:Based on what I've seen around my place in the hinterlands, e-bikes should offer cardio benefits because the people are riding w/o helmets @ 15-20 mph on 2 lane pave country roads with no bike lanes and signfifcant large road construction/harvest truck traffic.

Hell, my BP jumps 15-20 points when I see the oblivious retiree MF'ers riding down the middle road with a line of traffic behind them.

I don't ride mine unless I throw it in the back of my pickup and take it somewhere with no traffic. Roads around me are all 55mph and a lot of drivers just use that as a suggestion.

U.S. auto plants producing battery electric vehicles have required a larger workforce than traditional internal combustion engine plants -- a finding that runs counter to early predictions about how EVs would impact the industry.

Researchers at the University of Michigan (U-M) have shown that plants in the ramp-up stages of transitioning to full-scale EV production saw that 10 times more workers are needed to assemble every vehicle. And at one plant studied, now with over a decade of EV production, the total number of workers needed to make each vehicle has remained three times higher.

The Pantry wrote:

U.S. auto plants producing battery electric vehicles have required a larger workforce than traditional internal combustion engine plants -- a finding that runs counter to early predictions about how EVs would impact the industry.

Researchers at the University of Michigan (U-M) have shown that plants in the ramp-up stages of transitioning to full-scale EV production saw that 10 times more workers are needed to assemble every vehicle. And at one plant studied, now with over a decade of EV production, the total number of workers needed to make each vehicle has remained three times higher.

U. Michigan says auto plants grew their workforces after transitioning to EV production

1)  Investment in the development of new manufacturing technologies, which often requires more labor to improve.

2)  Higher vehicle complexity. Companies beginning to manufacture EVs usually start out making premium vehicles with the most advanced features and technologies.

3)  Some manufacturers have consolidated workers in a single, central location to lower costs from outsourcing, a practice known as vertical integration.

"The plant has been operating for ten years now, and they've obviously been able to improve labor efficiency," he said. "But the pace of improvement indicates that it can take up to 15 years for a plant to reach parity with its ICE predecessor.

TravelinMan wrote:

The Pantry wrote:

U. Michigan says auto plants grew their workforces after transitioning to EV production

That was a very interesting article.  Thanks for posting.

So per the article, the reasons for a larger workforce than anticipated include:

1)  Investment in the development of new manufacturing technologies, which often requires more labor to improve.

2)  Higher vehicle complexity. Companies beginning to manufacture EVs usually start out making premium vehicles with the most advanced features and technologies.

3)  Some manufacturers have consolidated workers in a single, central location to lower costs from outsourcing, a practice known as vertical integration.

Also from the article...

"The plant has been operating for ten years now, and they've obviously been able to improve labor efficiency," he said. "But the pace of improvement indicates that it can take up to 15 years for a plant to reach parity with its ICE predecessor.

So it sounds like Trapper has been right.  Give it 5-10 years and EV manufacturing will finally start ruining auto worker jobs just like the fear mongers promised.

The Pantry wrote:Auto makers jumped the gun on EV. Threw tons of capital at it too soon. Infrastructure nowhere near close to supporting it yet.

That said, I don't drive long distances anymore. Next vehicle might be EV. I could deal with plugging into 120v at home overnight. If for nothing else, would be interesting to see how my monthly electric bill would change.

The Pantry wrote:Auto makers jumped the gun on EV. Threw tons of capital at it too soon. Infrastructure nowhere near close to supporting it yet.

That said, I don't drive long distances anymore. Next vehicle might be EV. I could deal with plugging into 120v at home overnight. If for nothing else, would be interesting to see how my monthly electric bill would change.

TravelinMan wrote:

The Pantry wrote:Auto makers jumped the gun on EV.  Threw tons of capital at it too soon.  Infrastructure nowhere near close to supporting it yet.

That said, I don't drive long distances anymore.  Next vehicle might be EV.  I could deal with plugging into 120v at home overnight.  If for nothing else, would be interesting to see how my monthly electric bill would change.  

Since I've retired I'd way rather drive a long distance than fly.  Flying just sucks.  Of course, per my username, I got my fair share of traveling done during my working career, so it's not like I'm missing the "experience" of flying.  I've had plenty, thank you.  Give me a comfy car and the open road any day.  I'll knock out 12-18+ hours driving a day if I have to.