Democrats and Republicans: Sell an Independent your side

I'm a young, white male who is about to graduate. I've considered myself more of an independent because I truly feel that the bi-partisan style America has adopted will ultimately be her downfall. When any attempt from either side to reach out across the isle to the other is meet with staunch objections from your base, and is used against you in your next primary we no longer have two sides working towards the betterment of the American public, but rather two sides jockeying for more power, an us vs. you mentality instead of an us and you.

With that said, I'm a smart individual and realize that no third party candidate will ever have a chance while the baby boomers and those before are still stuck in their ways. Until those generations have a smaller voting power compared to younger generations we're going to be stuck with a "Douchebag and Turd Sandwich". With the very important midterms coming up this fall, my vote is entirely up in the air and could be swayed either way.

Why not listen to the candidates, see what makes the most sense, maybe read a little, and go with your gut? Just spitballing here.

Let me preface my remarks by saying that I don't vote.

It is my feeling that, at this point in history, democrats are bad and republicans are worse.

There are two things you have to be able to do: steer clear of emotional arguments; when your emotions are manipulated, people can sell you anything. And think further ahead than just one step.

Both sides will try to sell you a tax policy based on fairness. Instead of worrying about which policy is the fairest, concern yourself with the real effects that the policies have. Republican policies tend to move more of the burden from the wealthy to the middle-class and the poor, while Democratic policies tend to do the opposite.

The Republican position sounds good, as long as you don't think about it: cut taxes for corporations and business owners and they will create more jobs. Whether you work for someone else or run your own business, you'll eventually discover that it doesn't work that way. Employers are more likely to hire when demand is too great for their workforce.

Poor and middle-class people tend to spend higher percentages of their income than the wealthy. So every tax advantage they get will increase demand. That's better for employment, and better for business owners. While Democrats haven't been great at keeping the tax burden off of the spenders, they're much better at it than the Republicans.

The views on social programs follow the same lines. Republicans don't like those programs, and Democrats do. Both sides use emotional arguments - "we have to feed the poor" vs. "not with my money" - and you can dismiss those appeals. Look instead at the impact. Programs that free up more money for the spenders to spend will have a positive effect on the economy.

Just weed out the bullshit, give issues some real thought, and you should make the right decisions.

Cameron wrote:Let me preface my remarks by saying that I don't vote.

It is my feeling that, at this point in history, democrats are bad and republicans are worse.

This.

Anytime there is a system of power... somewhere will figure out how to manipulate it and "spoil" it, regardless of how benevolent the intentions were behind its' creation.

Voting is not going to change this. The system needs to be changed... completely revamped.

It has not worked for several generations... and I'd personally argue it hasn't ever worked but we have suffered from a "glory days" syndrome about a time none of us have actually experienced but assume worked just great. It hasn't.

Voting on anything outside of the most local of elections is a completely waste of time... and even then it's pretty much a waste of time.

TLS,

Stay independent. Always. Don't shill for parties like so many n00bs do on this board, and in general society. Vote for people and not parties.

Personally, I'm probably done voting for a while. It's useless. It's all staged and backed with massive amounts of money lobbying and broken promises. (Example: Obama's former cronie, Tom Wheeler, is the chairman of the F.C.C. -- which is in the midst of destroying net neutrality in America. Think about that.)

Politics in America is monotonous. The lies are even more prevalent.

Pervis Muldoon wrote:There are two things you have to be able to do:  steer clear of emotional arguments; when your emotions are manipulated, people can sell you anything.  And think further ahead than just one step.

Both sides will try to sell you a tax policy based on fairness.  Instead of worrying about which policy is the fairest, concern yourself with the real effects that the policies have.  Republican policies tend to move more of the burden from the wealthy to the middle-class and the poor, while Democratic policies tend to do the opposite.

The Republican position sounds good, as long as you don't think about it: cut taxes for corporations and business owners and they will create more jobs.  Whether you work for someone else or run your own business, you'll eventually discover that it doesn't work that way.  Employers are more likely to hire when demand is too great for their workforce.

Poor and middle-class people tend to spend higher percentages of their income than the wealthy.  So every tax advantage they get will increase demand.  That's better for employment, and better for business owners.  While Democrats haven't been great at keeping the tax burden off of the spenders, they're much better at it than the Republicans.

The views on social programs follow the same lines.  Republicans don't like those programs, and Democrats do.  Both sides use emotional arguments - "we have to feed the poor" vs. "not with my money" - and you can dismiss those appeals.  Look instead at the impact.  Programs that free up more money for the spenders to spend will have a positive effect on the economy.

Just weed out the bullshit, give issues some real thought, and you should make the right decisions.

I wholeheartedly agree that supply-side economics is BS. However, the tax issue could be solved in a lot of ways by reducing the size of government and government spending in general. If we were to do that, taxes could be reduced for all individuals and businesses. There is so much waste in government, it's sickening. Part of the problem is that the department tasked with overseeing other departments and investigating waste (OIG) is utterly toothless. When a department wastes millions of dollars because of ineptitude, this is what happens: OIG investigates for a few years, ridiculous amounts of wasteful spending are discovered, and then the OIG issues a report that basically says "Other department shouldn't have done what they did, so going forward they should look into doing this." So, in the end, all that occurs is more waste (paying for the OIG inquiry) only to have all the same incompetent individuals who oversaw the initial waste continue in their respective positions. No one gets fired, no one has to pay any money back (because the gov't messed up and would lose any potential lawsuit), and the public is generally unaware of all of it because it is rarely publicized.

Both parties are mutually exclusive to the other. Republicans stand for anything not Democratic, Democrats support anything not Republican. Nothing more difficult than that. Figure out your own compass and support who makes sense and who appears to have some integrity. If you put the integrity filter out there first, there will be few candidates to listen to regarding who makes sense.

The last alternative you should do is to not vote. Unless none of the candidates anywhere on the entire freaking ballot are any good. Please vote, if for no other reason but to honor those who fought and gave their lives so you could.

I would also add that if you have contempt for America, it's values and what makes it a great country, you should vote Republican.

If you're British (which I highly doubt or you would be intelligent enough to figure this out on your own), here's a simple little test:

http://games.usvsth3m.com/how-leftie-are-you/

Cym Jim wrote:If you're British (which I highly doubt or you would be intelligent enough to figure this out on your own), here's a simple little test:

http://games.usvsth3m.com/how-leftie-are-you/

How did you vote in the AV referendum?

Turtleneck wrote:

How did you vote in the AV referendum?

I don't vote over there, been here 17 years. Largely indifferent on it, but not a fan of all the backroom deals that happen when election results aren't clear. AV (and PR) would lead to tons of that.

AV seems straight forward and it forces a majority vote. You guys blew it.

Saying there are two real parties is being generous, as they support many of the same things while using a few differences to divide the public. Individually, I have a mix of liberal and libertarian viewpoints. Neither party represents my viewpoints. The Democrats pretend to "liberal" while still largely supporting an interventionist foreign policy and an expansion of the Patriot Act. The Republicans act like they're "fiscally responsible" while running deficits and spending a shit ton of $$$$ and worse, have a large portion of the party consisting of the socially conservative/religious right douchebags that what to impose their moral code on the rest of society. As long as the Republicans continue to accept those socially conservative viewpoints, I cannot support them, despite those issues largely being beyond the power of the executive branch. I agree with some posters above that the Democrats are slightly better, but I wouldn't be proud of voting for any recent Democrat.

When voting for national office (and state pretty much), pick the candidate that comes closest to your beliefs that you think will be best at resisting the party machine, these are few and far between. Either party is all about themselves first, their big donors second and their job/constituents/country a very distant third.