Prayer before town meetings upheld by SCOTUS

http://www.npr.org/2014/05/05/309840515/a-narrow-high-court-win-for-prayer-before-government-meetings?ft=1&f=1003

The SCOTUS decided that prayer before public meetings does not violate the 1st Amendment. Agree?

Turtleneck wrote:http://www.npr.org/2014/05/05/309840515/a-narrow-high-court-win-for-prayer-before-government-meetings?ft=1&f=1003

The SCOTUS decided that prayer before public meetings does not violate the 1st Amendment. Agree?

Disagree with the ruling 100%.

The hypocritical interpretation of the constitution by the members of the right continues.

Radical atheist here, and I couldn't give a shit.

Cym Jim wrote:Radical atheist here, and I couldn't give a shit.

Would you be alright with prayer at school?

Turtleneck wrote:

Would you be alright with prayer at school?

Public school I presume? I had to do that in England in elementary school - most state schools were designated as "Church of England" schools. Not so much any more, as we're now a post-Christian nation. I thought it was all a little silly myself, even when I was 8.

I'm not particularly scared of exposing kids to prayer, it's all a little overly dramatic. I'd rather not have it in schools though, especially if it advocates for one religion over another. Having kids say the pledge is strange enough to me - it cracks me up that you try to make kids do that.

Cym Jim wrote:

Public school I presume? I had to do that in England in elementary school - most state schools were designated as "Church of England" schools. Not so much any more, as we're now a post-Christian nation. I thought it was all a little silly myself, even when I was 8.

I'm not particularly scared of exposing kids to prayer, it's all a little overly dramatic. I'd rather not have it in schools though, especially if it advocates for one religion over another. Having kids say the pledge is strange enough to me - it cracks me up that you try to make kids do that.

Yes, public school.

If you would rather not have it in public schools, why is it alright at public meetings?

p.s. Did your school have a giant painting of Henry VIII?

Turtleneck wrote:

If you would rather not have it in public schools, why is it alright at public meetings?

Because I don't go to public meetings, nor does anybody I know or care about, and I'm sure those who do are quite grown up enough to deal with a small bunch of jesus freaks acting like idiots  .

At the same time, the "if you don't like it don't go" logic does not hold up as well (for me). I know you did not say that, but it is implied. Why should religion - even when seemingly harmless - sit between the people and participation in the political process? By no means am I anti-religion, but just asking some general questions.

I voted that I'm indifferent.

Ironically, I wasn't indifferent when I heard that the Satanic church is erecting a 7 foot tall statue at the Oklahoma State Capitol. I thought that was funny. It's in response to a monument of the 10 Commandments that a former legislator donated a couple years ago that is on the capitol grounds.

So, if people want prayer before a public meeting, fine, just be quick about it. But if some Satanists or Rastafarians also want to do some of their rituals, you better be ready to grant them their time too.

I'd link the story, but I'm a newb, you'll have to Google it.

Cym Jim wrote:

Public school I presume? I had to do that in England in elementary school - most state schools were designated as "Church of England" schools. Not so much any more, as we're now a post-Christian nation. I thought it was all a little silly myself, even when I was 8.

I'm not particularly scared of exposing kids to prayer, it's all a little overly dramatic. I'd rather not have it in schools though, especially if it advocates for one religion over another. Having kids say the pledge is strange enough to me - it cracks me up that you try to make kids do that.

Conservatives like to whine about liberal "brainwashing", but they sure do love forcing other people's kids to acknowledge a supernatural being every morning. It's not a major issue for me, but I'm always on the side of people who are willing to go to court for the separation of church and state.

Turtleneck wrote:Why should religion - even when seemingly harmless - sit between the people and participation in the political process?

It shouldn't, but it's clear this country isn't ready to deal with such things properly yet. Unlike more developed nations, religious crazies are still massively powerful in this country, so I'm not really that arsed about picking fights about what should and shouldn't happen when a bunch of douchebags get together to argue about largely meaningless shit. If you're still doing this in 50 years, then I'll worry.

Pervis Muldoon wrote:

Conservatives like to whine about liberal "brainwashing", but they sure do love forcing other people's kids to acknowledge a supernatural being every morning.  It's not a major issue for me, but I'm always on the side of people who are willing to go to court for the separation of church and state.

I"m completely on their side too. I dunno, maybe it's because I'm not from here, but I find the constitutional argument as tiresome here as I do with the gun shit.

Cym Jim wrote:

I"m completely on their side too. I dunno, maybe it's because I'm not from here, but I find the constitutional argument as tiresome here as I do with the gun shit.

I get a kick out of topics like this, because even politicians who know church and state should be separate will still jump all over themselves to lead a prayer or hold up a Bible. There is far more fake religion than sincere religion in American politics. Fake religion is the one thing both parties can get behind.

Is Islamic prayer allowed? Satanic prayer? Or how about praying to the god of the Orcs?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2014/05/06/clarence-thomass-curious-probably-what-would-the-founders-say/?wprss=rss_opinions

"If centuries of attempting to interpret the Constitution and the Founders’ Intent have taught us anything, it is that there is a great deal of disagreement about what the Founders actually meant at any given time. No one seems quite sure, except for Antonin Scalia, on whose shoulder the ghost of Thomas Jefferson perches and into whose ear John Adams’s restive spirit frequently whispers sweet nothings.
This is especially true when it comes to the establishment clause, which the Supreme Court cited Monday in the case of Town of Greece v. Galloway, about whether it is acceptable to begin the meeting of legislative bodies with prayer. Their answer, by a 5 to 4 margin: Sure, probably?"

I'm all for public prayer.. it tells me which people are completely insane and to watch my kid around.

Cym Jim wrote:
Because I don't go to public meetings, nor does anybody I know or care about, and I'm sure those who do are quite grown up enough to deal with a small bunch of jesus freaks acting like idiots  .

I attend the sessions of the local township government. They say the Pledge of Allegiance before each meeting, no prayers. They should say a pledge of allegiance to the tax payers...

MasonGuy wrote:

I attend the sessions of the local township government.  They say the Pledge of Allegiance before each meeting, no prayers.  They should say a pledge of allegiance to the tax payers...

What happens if you leave out the "Under God" part? You know, like they did before the crazies got the law passed in 1954?

Rocinante wrote:

What happens if you leave out the "Under God" part?  You know, like they did before the crazies got the law passed in 1954?

Then you're going straight to hell.

Pervis Muldoon wrote:

I get a kick out of topics like this, because even politicians who know church and state should be separate will still jump all over themselves to lead a prayer or hold up a Bible.  There is far more fake religion than sincere religion in American politics.  Fake religion is the one thing both parties can get behind.

I was going to like this, but now I can't like this.