Line Play

by **NigelUno** 2016-10-18, 14:54

The Staggering Decline of Michigan State's Line Play

Geezuz. We lost a lot of guys.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2016-10-18, 15:06

It's a good article, thanks for sharing. But I think what the article states has also become pretty obvious to anyone with half of a brain. I bite my tongue when my buddy at tailgate is lamenting TOC's play and saying that Lewerke will energize the entire team and the defense will get off the field. Or blaming Dave Warner for the lack of a running game.

There are other points to be made about each of those other areas (and countless others, as well), but if you want to nail THE problem with the 2016 season, it's in the article and it's a no brainer.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2016-10-18, 15:09

For the x and o guys... Has Warner tried to adjust to this? At all? Whether it's play calling or scheme or whatever ???

by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2016-10-18, 15:11

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:For the x and o guys... Has Warner tried to adjust to this? At all? Whether it's play calling or scheme or whatever ???

Remember the JLS bubble screens? Good times. Probably won't work this time either, but it would take pressure off of the OL.

by **NigelUno** 2016-10-18, 15:13

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:For the x and o guys... Has Warner tried to adjust to this? At all? Whether it's play calling or scheme or whatever ???

We'll find out in a couple of weeks.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2016-10-18, 15:13

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:For the x and o guys... Has Warner tried to adjust to this? At all? Whether it's play calling or scheme or whatever ???

Remember the JLS bubble screens? Good times. Probably won't work this time either, but it would take pressure off of the OL.

Like Terry love and agim shabaj baby!

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2016-10-18, 15:15

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:For the x and o guys... Has Warner tried to adjust to this? At all? Whether it's play calling or scheme or whatever ???

Not a ton. Slightly. But that's kind of an existential philosophical discussion, too. Same thing Coach D spent all spring and summer second guessing himself on. Do you do what you do because it's what you know and you do it well? Or do you evolve and try new things? I think this year may cause a shift in philosophy that we may see play out over the next few weeks.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2016-10-18, 15:15

NigelUno wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:For the x and o guys... Has Warner tried to adjust to this? At all? Whether it's play calling or scheme or whatever ???

We'll find out in a couple of weeks.

I think we already know. 2-4.

by **The_Dude** 2016-10-18, 15:23

NigelUno wrote:The Staggering Decline of Michigan State's Line Play

Geezuz. We lost a lot of guys.

No. 12 and 13 crootin classes complete busts. Beedle, Kieler, McGowan blow. You always have turnover.

by **The_Dude** 2016-10-18, 15:24

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:For the x and o guys... Has Warner tried to adjust to this? At all? Whether it's play calling or scheme or whatever ???

No. We should be running shotgun spread, roll outs, ton of jet sweeps, screens. Zero ability to adapt.

by **SeeRockCity** 2016-10-18, 15:26

Imagine where we'd been without Conklin...

Finley's injury was a fucking travesty. Weird thing is though, OLine is a funny thing. Seems like there's so much physical development going on between seasons every year that it's a bit of a ugly duckling thing. I wouldn't be surprised at all if next spring there are rumblings about this being a very good O'Line or "one of Dantonio's best" out of the blue. Shit just changes in college.

Seems to happen frequently for various players/position groups.

by **NigelUno** 2016-10-18, 15:51

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

We'll find out in a couple of weeks.

I think we already know. 2-4.

I meant they might tweak some things. I didn't (and don't) expect MSU to run the spread. And the 2-4 record isn't solely the fault of the offense.

by Herbie Green 2016-10-18, 17:01

Say what you want but JLS was putting up points with less talent.

I would take Dave Baldwin back in a heartbeat

by **The_Dude** 2016-10-18, 17:28

Herbie Green wrote:Say what you want but JLS was putting up points with less talent.

I would take Dave Baldwin back in a heartbeat

Dantonio needs to get rid of a power pro style. He doesn't get the OL to run that style. And without Duzzi, he can't rely on D to win games.

by **Blanch32** 2016-10-18, 17:30

Herbie Green wrote:Say what you want but JLS was putting up points with less talent.

I would take Dave Baldwin back in a heartbeat

This just no 3 and 5 quick runs in the redzone

by **Blanch32** 2016-10-18, 17:31

The_Dude wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:Say what you want but JLS was putting up points with less talent.

I would take Dave Baldwin back in a heartbeat

Dantonio needs to get rid of a power pro style. He doesn't get the OL to run that style. And without Duzzi, he can't rely on D to win games.

This. fucked up by not keeping JLS olive coach, who eventually ended up at bama for a bit.

too bad dantonio doesn't believe in zone blocking

by **NigelUno** 2016-10-18, 17:32

Herbie Green wrote:Say what you want but JLS was putting up points with less talent.

by **The_Dude** 2016-10-18, 17:36

Blanch32 wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

Dantonio needs to get rid of a power pro style. He doesn't get the OL to run that style. And without Duzzi, he can't rely on D to win games.

This. fucked up by not keeping JLS olive coach, who eventually ended up at bama for a bit.

too bad dantonio doesn't believe in zone blocking

The funny thing is that 2007 was MSUs best rushing offense under Dantonio when we ranked 22nd nationally. Lol

by **Blanch32** 2016-10-18, 17:47

The_Dude wrote:
Blanch32 wrote:

This. fucked up by not keeping JLS olive coach, who eventually ended up at bama for a bit.

too bad dantonio doesn't believe in zone blocking

The funny thing is that 2007 was MSUs best rushing offense under Dantonio when we ranked 22nd nationally. Lol

Yup. and none of those dudes went pro either. I'm sorry but Staten has been a complete failure out of the gate, and I'm just hoping a 2 win season get his ass canned. hell, I'm ok with keeping everyone else if it means we can upgrade just that position

by **NigelUno** 2016-10-18, 17:51

The_Dude wrote:
Blanch32 wrote:

This. fucked up by not keeping JLS olive coach, who eventually ended up at bama for a bit.

too bad dantonio doesn't believe in zone blocking

The funny thing is that 2007 was MSUs best rushing offense under Dantonio when we ranked 22nd nationally. Lol

Except that's not true.

2007 = 2576 yards, 198.2/game
2014 = 3057 yards, 235.2/game

So, how is it funny?

http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2007-2008/teamcume.html
http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2014-2015/teamcume.html

by Herbie Green 2016-10-18, 18:00

The_Dude wrote:
Blanch32 wrote:

This. fucked up by not keeping JLS olive coach, who eventually ended up at bama for a bit.

too bad dantonio doesn't believe in zone blocking

The funny thing is that 2007 was MSUs best rushing offense under Dantonio when we ranked 22nd nationally. Lol

Good point. I was thinking it was just the spread scheme, but JLS's Oline coach was Jeff Stoutland, who is now the Oline coach for the Eagles.
Other JLS offensive staff -
Jim Mcelwain - Current head coach of Florida
Dave Baldwin - served as OC for Oregon State, Colorado State and head coach of San Jose State
Doug Nussmeir - Current OC at Florida after stints at Washington, Alabama and Michigan
Ben Sirmans - Current running back coach for the Packers

by **NigelUno** 2016-10-18, 18:06

Herbie Green wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

The funny thing is that 2007 was MSUs best rushing offense under Dantonio when we ranked 22nd nationally. Lol

Good point. I was thinking it was just the spread scheme, but JLS's Oline coach was Jeff Stoutland, who is now the Oline coach for the Eagles.
Other JLS offensive staff -
Jim Mcelwain - Current head coach of Florida
Dave Baldwin - served as OC for Oregon State, Colorado State and head coach of San Jose State
Doug Nussmeir - Current OC at Florida after stints at Washington, Alabama and Michigan
Ben Sirmans - Current running back coach for the Packers

It might be a good point...if it wasn't wrong.

And 2007 with Dantonio has what to do with JLS?

by **Blanch32** 2016-10-18, 18:17

NigelUno wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:

Good point. I was thinking it was just the spread scheme, but JLS's Oline coach was Jeff Stoutland, who is now the Oline coach for the Eagles.
Other JLS offensive staff -
Jim Mcelwain - Current head coach of Florida
Dave Baldwin - served as OC for Oregon State, Colorado State and head coach of San Jose State
Doug Nussmeir - Current OC at Florida after stints at Washington, Alabama and Michigan
Ben Sirmans - Current running back coach for the Packers

It might be a good point...if it wasn't wrong.

And 2007 with Dantonio has what to do with JLS?

Dantonio D plus JLS O = natty

by Herbie Green 2016-10-18, 18:17

NigelUno wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:

Good point. I was thinking it was just the spread scheme, but JLS's Oline coach was Jeff Stoutland, who is now the Oline coach for the Eagles.
Other JLS offensive staff -
Jim Mcelwain - Current head coach of Florida
Dave Baldwin - served as OC for Oregon State, Colorado State and head coach of San Jose State
Doug Nussmeir - Current OC at Florida after stints at Washington, Alabama and Michigan
Ben Sirmans - Current running back coach for the Packers

It might be a good point...if it wasn't wrong.

And 2007 with Dantonio has what to do with JLS?

It is still a very good point even though it is barely wrong by one other outlier season. I don't think MSU's rushing offense ranked in the top 50 in any of Dantonio's 8 other seasons. MSU is running football team that isn't good at running the football, unless you think being in the top 50 running offenses 2 out of every 10 years is impressive.

2007 is interesting because that is Dantonio's first year, so maybe he inherited an Oline that was already developed primarily by Stoutland. I don't know if that is true or not but it is a possible theory - kind of like the MSU defense's regression since the loss of Narduzzi.

by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2016-10-18, 18:19

This thread turned into a schtick fest.

by **The_Dude** 2016-10-18, 18:23

NigelUno wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:

Good point. I was thinking it was just the spread scheme, but JLS's Oline coach was Jeff Stoutland, who is now the Oline coach for the Eagles.
Other JLS offensive staff -
Jim Mcelwain - Current head coach of Florida
Dave Baldwin - served as OC for Oregon State, Colorado State and head coach of San Jose State
Doug Nussmeir - Current OC at Florida after stints at Washington, Alabama and Michigan
Ben Sirmans - Current running back coach for the Packers

It might be a good point...if it wasn't wrong.

And 2007 with Dantonio has what to do with JLS?

My bad. MSU was 21st nationally in 2014. 21, 22...sane thing.

The point is, MSU has struggled to run the ball effectively most of Dantonios tenure.

by **The_Dude** 2016-10-18, 18:28

Herbie Green wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

It might be a good point...if it wasn't wrong.

And 2007 with Dantonio has what to do with JLS?

It is still a very good point even though it is barely wrong by one other outlier season. I don't think MSU's rushing offense ranked in the top 50 in any of Dantonio's 8 other seasons. MSU is running football team that isn't good at running the football, unless you think being in the top 50 running offenses 2 out of every 10 years is impressive.

2007 is interesting because that is Dantonio's first year, so maybe he inherited an Oline that was already developed primarily by Stoutland. I don't know if that is true or not but it is a possible theory - kind of like the MSU defense's regression since the loss of Narduzzi.

Yeah, in 2011 with Bell and Baker MSU ranked 78th nationally in rush O! Was bad in 2010, 59th in 2013, and bad in 2015 too.

Only one year of MDs top 5 teams was MSU a good rushing team. And MSU were kind of frauds in 2010 and 2015. Lost bowl games 49-7 and 38-0. Can't really spin that.

by **NigelUno** 2016-10-18, 18:29

The_Dude wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

It might be a good point...if it wasn't wrong.

And 2007 with Dantonio has what to do with JLS?

My bad. MSU was 21st nationally in 2014. 21, 22...sane thing.

The point is, MSU has struggled to run the ball effectively most of Dantonios tenure.

Now you're comparing apples and oranges. You're using total yards for 2007 (#22 in nation) vs. Average yards in 2014 (#21). So, it's not "21, 22...same thing". And...you were wrong...by over 35 yards/game. So...what was funny again?

by **InTenSity** 2016-10-18, 18:31

The_Dude wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:

It is still a very good point even though it is barely wrong by one other outlier season. I don't think MSU's rushing offense ranked in the top 50 in any of Dantonio's 8 other seasons. MSU is running football team that isn't good at running the football, unless you think being in the top 50 running offenses 2 out of every 10 years is impressive.

2007 is interesting because that is Dantonio's first year, so maybe he inherited an Oline that was already developed primarily by Stoutland. I don't know if that is true or not but it is a possible theory - kind of like the MSU defense's regression since the loss of Narduzzi.

Yeah, in 2011 with Bell and Baker MSU ranked 78th nationally in rush O! Was bad in 2010, 59th in 2013, and bad in 2015 too.

Only one year of MDs top 5 teams was MSU a good rushing team. And MSU were kind of frauds in 2010 and 2015. Lost bowl games 49-7 and 38-0. Can't really spin that.

Add you go about spinning it lol.

by **The_Dude** 2016-10-18, 18:32

NigelUno wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

My bad. MSU was 21st nationally in 2014. 21, 22...sane thing.

The point is, MSU has struggled to run the ball effectively most of Dantonios tenure.

Now you're comparing apples and oranges. You're using total yards for 2007 (#22 in nation) vs. Average yards in 2014 (#21). So, it's not "21, 22...same thing". And...you were wrong...by over 35 yards/game. So...what was funny again?

The point still stands. I'm not going to spend hours researching a topic that won't change the overall point.

Dantonio teams blow at running the ball outside of two years. One of those years weren't his players.

He needs to adapt his offensive style or recruit better OL.

by Herbie Green 2016-10-18, 18:43

NigelUno wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

My bad. MSU was 21st nationally in 2014. 21, 22...sane thing.

The point is, MSU has struggled to run the ball effectively most of Dantonios tenure.

Now you're comparing apples and oranges. You're using total yards for 2007 (#22 in nation) vs. Average yards in 2014 (#21). So, it's not "21, 22...same thing". And...you were wrong...by over 35 yards/game. So...what was funny again?

Line Play Url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjHlO-ftuXPAhUDOT4KHalgBUQQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fquotesgram

by **NigelUno** 2016-10-18, 18:44

The_Dude wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

Now you're comparing apples and oranges. You're using total yards for 2007 (#22 in nation) vs. Average yards in 2014 (#21). So, it's not "21, 22...same thing". And...you were wrong...by over 35 yards/game. So...what was funny again?

The point still stands. I'm not going to spend hours researching a topic that won't change the overall point.

Dantonio teams blow at running the ball outside of two years. One of those years weren't his players.

He needs to adapt his offensive style or recruit better OL.

Not his players.

Line Play 502811600

Dantonio 2007 rushing/game = 198.2
JLS 2006 rushing/game = 129.2

Whose players were they in 2006?

Here's what is funny:

A. You are discounting WINNING to spin (Because you're a Michigan fan pretending to be a Michigan State fan).
B. You give zero credit to the OL for protecting the QB (thus allowing for more passing yards).
C. You're an idiot.
D. C isn't funny per se.

P.S. Like you said a few weeks ago...stats are for losers. That you're using them to discount WINNING only indicates that you are...a loser.

by **NigelUno** 2016-10-18, 18:45

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:This thread turned into a schtick fest.

The Fake, blanch52, Herbie...all it needs is Vlad and Tanfan and the circle will be complete.

by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2016-10-18, 18:46

The_Dude wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

Now you're comparing apples and oranges. You're using total yards for 2007 (#22 in nation) vs. Average yards in 2014 (#21). So, it's not "21, 22...same thing". And...you were wrong...by over 35 yards/game. So...what was funny again?

The point still stands. I'm not going to spend hours researching a topic that won't change the overall point.

Dantonio teams blow at running the ball outside of two years. One of those years weren't his players.

He needs to adapt his offensive style or recruit better OL.

Why do you love being wrong so much? It's weird.

by **NigelUno** 2016-10-18, 18:49

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

The point still stands. I'm not going to spend hours researching a topic that won't change the overall point.

Dantonio teams blow at running the ball outside of two years. One of those years weren't his players.

He needs to adapt his offensive style or recruit better OL.

Why do you love being wrong so much? It's weird.

It's a lot of work to be a Michigan fan pretending to be a Michigan State fan. Who cares about facts?

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2016-10-18, 18:49

Lebowski you talk about "spinning" and then go onto try to spin 11+ win seasons. Fuck off with that.

by **The_Dude** 2016-10-18, 19:09

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Lebowski you talk about "spinning" and then go onto try to spin 11+ win seasons. Fuck off with that.

Now you are shifting subjects.

We are specifically talking about the offense and run game. Not overall wins.

The D has been in a free fall. The run game was never good. When you can't rely on D to win you better have offense. We've never had offense for the most part which is why without good defense it needs to change.

It's really not hard to follow.

by **NigelUno** 2016-10-18, 19:17

The_Dude wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Lebowski you talk about "spinning" and then go onto try to spin 11+ win seasons. Fuck off with that.

Now you are shifting subjects.

We are specifically talking about the offense and run game. Not overall wins.

The D has been in a free fall. The run game was never good. When you can't rely on D to win you better have offense. We've never had offense for the most part which is why without good defense it needs to change.

It's really not hard to follow.

Uhh...no. You were the one that shifted subjects.

What's not hard to follow is that you're a Michigan fan pretending to be a Michigan State fan.

Only a Michigan fan would call MSU's team in 2015 a fraud.

by **NigelUno** 2016-10-18, 19:17

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Lebowski you talk about "spinning" and then go onto try to spin 11+ win seasons. Fuck off with that.

He's just talking football, deputy.

by **Nordic** 2016-10-18, 20:19

Blanch32 wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

It might be a good point...if it wasn't wrong.

And 2007 with Dantonio has what to do with JLS?

Dantonio D plus JLS O = natty

Who doesn't love trick plays? I'm sure Dave Baldwin could be had for cheap, he's currently the I/S WRs coach at Oregon State (demoted from OC last year).

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