Should we do away with the Bridges?

They are costly to maintain. I say we go back to ferries.













































(You thought I meant Myles?!? SHAME ON YOU!)

After riding around in MI. You guys have the worst roads. What the hell happened?

InTenSity wrote:After riding around in MI. You guys have the worst roads. What the hell happened?

We got Granholm'd.

TheReal_LWS wrote:

InTenSity wrote:After riding around in MI. You guys have the worst roads. What the hell happened?

We got Granholm'd.

That's flat out bullshit. Michigan roads went to shit when then-Gov. John Engler raised the weight limit on semis. Michigan allowed the highest amount of weight per truck in the country, and nobody wanted to point the finger at fat boy for fucking everything up.

tGreenWay wrote:

TheReal_LWS wrote:

We got Granholm'd.

That's flat out bullshit. Michigan roads went to shit when then-Gov. John Engler raised the weight limit on semis. Michigan allowed the highest amount of weight per truck in the country, and nobody wanted to point the finger at fat boy for fucking everything up.

LOL You are rich my friend.

P.S. Bolded text is either said out of ignorance, a lie, or both:

http://www.trucking.org/ATA%20Docs/What%20We%20Do/Trucking%20Issues/Documents/Highway%20Infrastructure%20and%20Funding/Report%20to%20Congress%20on%20the%20Compilation%20of%20Size%20and%20Weight%20Laws.pdf

Our weight limits are in line with many other states that do not have 3rd world level highways.

I thought it was because of the harsh winters? Or is it easier to pick one political scapegoat and just run with that?

TheReal_LWS wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:

That's flat out bullshit. Michigan roads went to shit when then-Gov. John Engler raised the weight limit on semis. Michigan allowed the highest amount of weight per truck in the country, and nobody wanted to point the finger at fat boy for fucking everything up.

LOL You are rich my friend.

P.S. Bolded text is either said out of ignorance, a lie, or both:

http://www.trucking.org/ATA%20Docs/What%20We%20Do/Trucking%20Issues/Documents/Highway%20Infrastructure%20and%20Funding/Report%20to%20Congress%20on%20the%20Compilation%20of%20Size%20and%20Weight%20Laws.pdf

Our weight limits are in line with many other states that do not have 3rd world level highways.

Roughly four or five other states come closest. Engler allowed the gross weight and number of axles to increase following a study by a highway group and MDOT that indicated it was gross weight, not weight per axle, that caused more damage to pavement. The federal law was changed to 80,000 lbs/five axles back in '82. Michigan was grandfathered in to allow for more axles and total weight, but if it ever reverts back--it's stuck at 80k pounds/5 axles. As it is now, MI allows as many as 11 axles and more than 160,000 pounds, but weight on axles has to be evenly distributed, except for the steering axle, which must be lighter.
As I stated correctly before, all those changes happened by order of then governor John Engler. If there are five other states out of 49 that followed suit, I am truly deeply sorry for leading you astray. But the overwhelming majority of states have stuck with 80k/5axle, and there must be a reason for that. I don't need that study to tell me Michigan roads are better off because the state allows more evenly distributed weight. I know Michigan roads are some of the worst in the country because I drive them regularly. That study seems to be full of shit, just like fat boy Engler.

tGreenWay wrote:

TheReal_LWS wrote:

LOL You are rich my friend.

P.S. Bolded text is either said out of ignorance, a lie, or both:

http://www.trucking.org/ATA%20Docs/What%20We%20Do/Trucking%20Issues/Documents/Highway%20Infrastructure%20and%20Funding/Report%20to%20Congress%20on%20the%20Compilation%20of%20Size%20and%20Weight%20Laws.pdf

Our weight limits are in line with many other states that do not have 3rd world level highways.

Roughly four or five other states come closest. Engler allowed the gross weight and number of axles to increase following a study by a highway group and MDOT that indicated it was gross weight, not weight per axle, that caused more damage to pavement. The federal law was changed to 80,000 lbs/five axles back in '82. Michigan was grandfathered in to allow for more axles and total weight, but if it ever reverts back--it's stuck at 80k pounds/5 axles. As it is now, MI allows as many as 11 axles and more than 160,000 pounds, but weight on axles has to be evenly distributed, except for the steering axle, which must be lighter.
As I stated correctly before, all those changes happened by order of then governor John Engler. If there are five other states out of 49 that followed suit, I am truly deeply sorry for leading you astray. But the overwhelming majority of states have stuck with 80k/5axle, and there must be a reason for that. I don't need that study to tell me Michigan roads are better off because the state allows more evenly distributed weight. I know Michigan roads are some of the worst in the country because I drive them regularly. That study seems to be full of shit, just like fat boy Engler.

The 160,000 /11 axle is a GRANDFATHER CLAUSE. Very few haulers fit this description anymore.

But I guess a study that doesn't agree with your original premise, is full of crap. Or you are. I've decided on the latter.

P.S. Always a pleasure debating with you Gway. You manage to always keep it above board and do not sling mud or throw mean names around....................

There are a lot of places to point your fingers

MI didn't have a dedicated fuel tax going specifically to roads and bridges.
All monies collected at the pump went into the dreaded General Fund along with sales tax, income tax etc. That took away any incentive to keep funds separate as legislators have always liked to rob from Peter to pay Paul. Roads have been playing the part of Peter many times

Our neighbors in the states that don't have toll roads like Wisconsin and Minnesota never put moneis collected for roads into their general fund.

John Engler was the governor who signed legislation to increase weight per axle.

Multiple times, especially with Engler and at least one with Granholm the MDOT ended up having to lobby the budget office because proposed highway funding was below minimum requirements to receive Federal highway funds.

Blame away but the condition of Michigan's roads has been a group effort almost 40 years in the making.

InTenSity wrote:After riding around in MI. You guys have the worst roads. What the hell happened?

I drove down US23 about a month ago. Holy shit that road is a disgrace.

I think he is a good player and MSU should keep him.

Turtleneck wrote:I think he is a good player and MSU should keep him.

I'd like to attempt a trade to Alabama.  Two freshman  offensive linemen and one corner for Bridges, straight up.  Right now.  It woiudl shake the college world and be the first trade of it's kind ever.  He's a one and done player, we have three other stud freshmen on the bball team. We're bringing in more studs, lets just play in the NIT get a higher round draft choice for sucking and make this deal. 

Hollis needs to make this happen.

DWags wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:I think he is a good player and MSU should keep him.

I'd like to attempt a trade to Alabama.  Two freshman  offensive linemen and one corner for Bridges, straight up.  Right now.  It woiudl shake the college world and be the first trade of it's kind ever.  He's a one and done player, we have three other stud freshmen on the bball team. We're bringing in more studs, lets just play in the NIT get a higher round draft choice for sucking and make this deal. 

Hollis needs to make this happen.

Instead of Bridges, we'll trade you and Vlad.

Swill Bin.

DWags wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:I think he is a good player and MSU should keep him.

I'd like to attempt a trade to Alabama.  Two freshman  offensive linemen and one corner for Bridges, straight up.  Right now.  It woiudl shake the college world and be the first trade of it's kind ever.  He's a one and done player, we have three other stud freshmen on the bball team. We're bringing in more studs, lets just play in the NIT get a higher round draft choice for sucking and make this deal. 

Hollis needs to make this happen.

I am fully behind that deal.