SCOTUS will hear religious liberty case next term
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msugolfguy
Turtleneck
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SCOTUS will hear religious liberty case next term
The Supreme Court on Monday said it will consider next term whether a Denver baker unlawfully discriminated against a gay couple by refusing to sell them a wedding cake.
Lower courts had ruled that Jack Phillips, the owner of Masterpiece Cakeshop, had violated Colorado’s public accommodations law, which prohibits refusing service to customers based on factors such as race, sex, marital status or sexual orientation.
There are similar lawsuits from florists, calligraphers and others who say their religious beliefs won’t allow them to provide services for same-sex weddings. But they have found little success in the courts, which have ruled that public businesses must comply with state anti-discrimination laws.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-to-take-case-on-baker-who-refused-to-sell-wedding-cake-to-gay-couple/2017/06/26/0c2f8606-0cde-11e7-9d5a-a83e627dc120_story.html?utm_term=.bb99ed509842
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: SCOTUS will hear religious liberty case next term
No problem with them not baking a cake, just put a sign on your door saying gays not welcome. Own it.
msugolfguy- Spartiate
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Re: SCOTUS will hear religious liberty case next term
msugolfguy wrote:No problem with them not baking a cake, just put a sign on your door saying gays not welcome. Own it.
I think the police should also say, "We'll only protect the business from heterosexual criminals" Or the public works who put a sidewalk in front should only allow heterosexuals to walk on that portion of the sidewalk. The tax dollars paid to police and road commisions shoudl be somehow divided and have the gay peoples money put somewhere else.
Also, we shoudl allow businesses to then not serve black people. Just own it. Or better yet, maybe we could have seperate drinking fountains and maybe make them eat in the back of the restaurant.
Seems we're on a slippery slope in America. I have no doubt a conservative court will allow things based on religion.
DWags- Geronte
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Re: SCOTUS will hear religious liberty case next term
Colored only bathrooms and drinking fountains
No Jews allowed in hotels
No Japanese should own land
Catholics need not apply
MAGA
No Jews allowed in hotels
No Japanese should own land
Catholics need not apply
MAGA
GRR Spartan- Geronte
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Re: SCOTUS will hear religious liberty case next term
msugolfguy wrote:No problem with them not baking a cake, just put a sign on your door saying gays not welcome. Own it.
In the broader context, as others have pointed out above, does this represent a form of discrimination that the courts have ruled against in the past?
What I do find fascinating is that this case, possibly unlike other issues of discrimination, puts civil liberties and civil rights into conflict. If you say people can refuse service based on religion, you are strengthening the right to be free of government interference in religious practice at the expense of the expectation that we are free from arbitrary discrimination. If you say the opposite, you are protecting people from arbitrary discrimination at the expense of being free of government interference in religious practice.
However, if the government can prevent you from discrimination of this kind, does it really interfere with religious practice? Is that business owner actually being prevented from free exercising their religious beliefs?
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: SCOTUS will hear religious liberty case next term
Since Sexual orientation is not an explicitly protected class, I suspect this SC, now dominated by literalists, will rule in favor of religious liberty.
Rocinante- Geronte
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Re: SCOTUS will hear religious liberty case next term
Rocinante wrote:Since Sexual orientation is not an explicitly protected class, I suspect this SC, now dominated by literalists, will rule in favor of religious liberty.
Absolutely, and it will spread to restaurants hotels and many more businesses. It's what many who went to the polls want America to be and act like. It's a bit frightening. Lord forbid any of us be homosexual or have a child that is. It's just so disappointing
DWags- Geronte
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Re: SCOTUS will hear religious liberty case next term
DWags wrote:Rocinante wrote:Since Sexual orientation is not an explicitly protected class, I suspect this SC, now dominated by literalists, will rule in favor of religious liberty.
Absolutely, and it will spread to restaurants hotels and many more businesses. It's what many who went to the polls want America to be and act like. It's a bit frightening. Lord forbid any of us be homosexual or have a child that is. It's just so disappointing
The only saving grace there is that for the most part they aren't going to know who is gay and who isn't.
The frustrating part of all of this for me has always been that these people who get super upset about this kinda thing have a God who really wouldn't care if they made a cake for gay people as long as they didn't trip on their way to the ceremony and accidentally suck a dick. In fact, He'd probably prefer that they just be nice to people. But they're using religion instead to justify being assholes.
Travis of the Cosmos- Geronte
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Re: SCOTUS will hear religious liberty case next term
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:DWags wrote:
Absolutely, and it will spread to restaurants hotels and many more businesses. It's what many who went to the polls want America to be and act like. It's a bit frightening. Lord forbid any of us be homosexual or have a child that is. It's just so disappointing
The only saving grace there is that for the most part they aren't going to know who is gay and who isn't.
The frustrating part of all of this for me has always been that these people who get super upset about this kinda thing have a God who really wouldn't care if they made a cake for gay people as long as they didn't trip on their way to the ceremony and accidentally suck a dick. In fact, He'd probably prefer that they just be nice to people. But they're using religion instead to justify being assholes.
Bullseye. And being bullies, and being smug, and being intolerant, and being hostile, and being just fucks.
DWags- Geronte
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Re: SCOTUS will hear religious liberty case next term
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
The only saving grace there is that for the most part they aren't going to know who is gay and who isn't.
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/emmbcg/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-putting-north-carolina-s-anti-lgbt-law-to-the-test
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: SCOTUS will hear religious liberty case next term
DWags wrote:msugolfguy wrote:No problem with them not baking a cake, just put a sign on your door saying gays not welcome. Own it.
I think the police should also say, "We'll only protect the business from heterosexual criminals" Or the public works who put a sidewalk in front should only allow heterosexuals to walk on that portion of the sidewalk. The tax dollars paid to police and road commisions shoudl be somehow divided and have the gay peoples money put somewhere else.
Also, we shoudl allow businesses to then not serve black people. Just own it. Or better yet, maybe we could have seperate drinking fountains and maybe make them eat in the back of the restaurant.
Seems we're on a slippery slope in America. I have no doubt a conservative court will allow things based on religion.
So you consider private businesses to be on the same footing as publicly owned and paid services.
Interesting.
Guest- Guest
Re: SCOTUS will hear religious liberty case next term
DWags wrote:Rocinante wrote:Since Sexual orientation is not an explicitly protected class, I suspect this SC, now dominated by literalists, will rule in favor of religious liberty.
Absolutely, and it will spread to restaurants hotels and many more businesses. It's what many who went to the polls want America to be and act like. It's a bit frightening. Lord forbid any of us be homosexual or have a child that is. It's just so disappointing
I like how they always test these laws in muslim owned establishments.
Guest- Guest
Re: SCOTUS will hear religious liberty case next term
LooseGoose wrote:DWags wrote:
I think the police should also say, "We'll only protect the business from heterosexual criminals" Or the public works who put a sidewalk in front should only allow heterosexuals to walk on that portion of the sidewalk. The tax dollars paid to police and road commisions shoudl be somehow divided and have the gay peoples money put somewhere else.
Also, we shoudl allow businesses to then not serve black people. Just own it. Or better yet, maybe we could have seperate drinking fountains and maybe make them eat in the back of the restaurant.
Seems we're on a slippery slope in America. I have no doubt a conservative court will allow things based on religion.
So you consider private businesses to be on the same footing as publicly owned and paid services.
Interesting.
Broadly speaking, DWags is referencing the ban on discrimination in public accommodations established in the Civil Rights Act of 1964. While the Act is designed to deal with civil rights violations in the areas of "race, color, religion, sex, or national origin," its logic is certainly applicable here as well.
More specifically, DWags post points to Heart of Atlanta Motel v. U.S. (1964). In that case, the Court used the federal government's constitutional power to regulate interstate commerce to uphold the Civil Rights Act's ban on discrimination in public accommodations.
What becomes vital is how the Court understands this case. If we are talking about small businesses with no substantial connection to interstate commerce - a bake shop - Heart of Atlanta is likely not applicable. However, if the Court reads into religious liberty laws more generally, and envisions such laws allowing private businesses more substantially connected to interstate commerce - such as hotels and motels - to discriminate, Heart of Atlanta might very well apply.
In the Heart of Atlanta decision, the Court was clear that private businesses substantially related to interstate commerce can be subjected to federal legislation banning discrimination in public accommodations. The Court found such regulation to be within the purview of the commerce clause. If we are just talking about a bake shop, maybe the Court does not invoke the rationale used in Heart of Atlanta. Maybe we are not talking about interstate commerce. At the same time, the Court has at times been very broad in how they interpret the commerce clause and what constitutes interstate commerce. A broad interpretation would allows the federal government to strike down religious liberty laws that allow for discrimination in public services.
Good post, DWags! It definitely pointed back to an interesting conversation not without precedent.
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: SCOTUS will hear religious liberty case next term
Texas....
Texas Supreme Court Rules Against Benefits For Same-Sex Couples
http://www.npr.org/2017/06/30/535021154/texas-supreme-court-rules-against-benefits-for-same-sex-couples
Texas Supreme Court Rules Against Benefits For Same-Sex Couples
http://www.npr.org/2017/06/30/535021154/texas-supreme-court-rules-against-benefits-for-same-sex-couples
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: SCOTUS will hear religious liberty case next term
How wrong was the Texas Supreme Court about equality for married gay couples?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/07/02/how-wrong-was-the-texas-supreme-court-about-equality-for-married-gay-couples/?utm_term=.8718bc73ee4c
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: SCOTUS will hear religious liberty case next term
Nigel, what are you doing about this?
http://politics.blog.myajc.com/2017/08/08/another-georgia-republican-group-demands-religious-liberty-pledge/
The Georgia GOP might have backed down on a “religious liberty” pledge for gubernatorial candidates, but another Republican outfit is taking it on as a cause.
The Georgia Republican Assembly, a more conservative shadow organization of the state GOP, is asking gubernatorial candidates who will attend its Saturday meeting to sign the exact same “religious liberty” vow rejected by the state GOP executive committee on Saturday.
The group’s president, DeKalb activist Alex Johnson, wrote to candidates and their top aides Monday that the state party’s move was “unacceptable both to Republican voters and to voters at large.”
http://politics.blog.myajc.com/2017/08/08/another-georgia-republican-group-demands-religious-liberty-pledge/
Turtleneck- Geronte
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