This is not going to go over well here
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This is not going to go over well here
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/21/opinion/coronavirus-meat-vegetarianism.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes
The End of Meat is Here: If you care about the working poor, about racial justice, and about climate change, you have to stop eating meat.
The End of Meat is Here: If you care about the working poor, about racial justice, and about climate change, you have to stop eating meat.
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
I don't preach, or judge but I've kind of been there for a while. Was at a friends cookout last weekend (he set it up so it was socially distanced and all that) he made us a burger and had these sausages and of course I ate it but I just don't buy it often or seek it out. Why? Some ethical reasons for sure but what makes it easy is I really just enjoy eating vegetables a lot.
steveschneider- Spartiate
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Yeah, good luck with that.
Motown Spartan- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Eat what you want.
crazy talk, I know.
crazy talk, I know.
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Robert J Sakimano wrote:Eat what you want.
crazy talk, I know.
Couldn't agree more.
steveschneider- Spartiate
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
we're old fashioned, I reckon.steveschneider wrote:Robert J Sakimano wrote:Eat what you want.
crazy talk, I know.
Couldn't agree more.
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Robert J Sakimano wrote:Eat what you want.
crazy talk, I know.
So if the meat industry as it exists now preys on the poor and is harmful to the climate, why do you support other measures that limit people's individual choices to prevent them from harming others? Same question to you, Steve. It doesn't seems consistent.
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Robert J Sakimano wrote:we're old fashioned, I reckon.steveschneider wrote:
Couldn't agree more.
I used to have friends that would argue about ethical eating with other people and it was always so cringe worthy. Just stfu and eat food.
Also, turtle I'm pretty sure I've seen a truck like that. Was at a hallal restaurant in Brooklyn and after the meal we were out front chatting a truck pulled up and lifted the back door. The friends we were chatting with had no clue what I was looking at and was right behind them. Two dudes grabbed a few lambs and brought them into the place.
Last edited by steveschneider on 2020-05-21, 10:39; edited 1 time in total
steveschneider- Spartiate
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Turtleneck wrote:Robert J Sakimano wrote:Eat what you want.
crazy talk, I know.
So if the meat industry as it exists now preys on the poor and is harmful to the climate, why do you support other measures that limit people's individual choices to prevent them from harming others? Same question to you, Steve. It doesn't seems consistent.
The best I can do is eat the way I eat. I belong to a CSA and I eat as many greens as I can.
steveschneider- Spartiate
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
you're right - it's not consistent at all.Turtleneck wrote:Robert J Sakimano wrote:Eat what you want.
crazy talk, I know.
So if the meat industry as it exists now preys on the poor and is harmful to the climate, why do you support other measures that limit people's individual choices to prevent them from harming others? Same question to you, Steve. It doesn't seems consistent.
Once we have an educational system, a healthcare system, a judicial system, a prison system, an electoral system, etc. that addresses a fair and equitable society, I'd be happy to discuss whether or not someone should be eating a cheeseburger.
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
I don't know, since the kids have been stuck with the wife and I since March, I think we're doing way less red meat, more veggies and fish. I'm never going to judge anyone here, but I probably did eat way too much meat during the week.
DWags- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Robert J Sakimano wrote:you're right - it's not consistent at all. I just believe that there are other aspects of society that need to be addressed first.Turtleneck wrote:
So if the meat industry as it exists now preys on the poor and is harmful to the climate, why do you support other measures that limit people's individual choices to prevent them from harming others? Same question to you, Steve. It doesn't seems consistent.
Once we have an educational system, a healthcare system, a judicial system, a prison system, an electoral system, etc. that addresses a fair and equitable society, I'd be happy to discuss whether or not someone should be eating a cheeseburger.
But what if the meat industry exacerbates the poverty and racial injustice you clearly - by way of your above post - care about and want to address? Many of the inequities you mention very much relate to poverty and race. Â Does it not become more than just "eating a cheeseburger?" Or are you suggesting that the link between meat and poverty and race is limited, or just not a very important action we can take to address poverty and race?
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
dude, I don't know. I'm an idiot who hovers right around a third grade reading level.Turtleneck wrote:Robert J Sakimano wrote:
you're right - it's not consistent at all. I just believe that there are other aspects of society that need to be addressed first.
Once we have an educational system, a healthcare system, a judicial system, a prison system, an electoral system, etc. that addresses a fair and equitable society, I'd be happy to discuss whether or not someone should be eating a cheeseburger.
But what if the meat industry exacerbates the poverty and racial injustice you clearly - by way of your above post - care about and want to address? Many of the inequities you mention very much relate to poverty and race. Â Does it not become more than just "eating a cheeseburger?" Or are you suggesting that the link between meat and poverty and race is limited, or just not a very important action we can take to address poverty and race?
I'm just saying that once white people stop murdering unarmed black kids.. once the educational system treats minorities and lower income, at risk people with equity, once death row stops murdering low income POC at a significantly higher rate than middle class white people, I'd be happy to entertain cheeseburger eating.
if it's your thing, dude, that's awesome. Seriously.
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Turtleneck wrote:
But what if the meat industry exacerbates the poverty and racial injustice you clearly - by way of your above post - care about and want to address?
Just so we can have an honest and interesting debate, please list as many industries as you can think of that don't exacerbate the poverty, and racial injustices in America.
That way, we can maybe decide, of all those which are left, who to correct first. Â As of now, I can't think of many industries which don't harm the poorest of those in society, but if I had a list of importance, I odn't quite know where I'd put the meat industry.
Last edited by DWags on 2020-05-21, 10:59; edited 1 time in total
DWags- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Turtleneck wrote:Robert J Sakimano wrote:Eat what you want.
crazy talk, I know.
So if the meat industry as it exists now preys on the poor and is harmful to the climate, why do you support other measures that limit people's individual choices to prevent them from harming others? Same question to you, Steve. It doesn't seems consistent.
Doesn't the fruit and vegetable industry also prey on the poor and harm the environment?
NigelUno- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
NigelUno wrote:Turtleneck wrote:
So if the meat industry as it exists now preys on the poor and is harmful to the climate, why do you support other measures that limit people's individual choices to prevent them from harming others? Same question to you, Steve. It doesn't seems consistent.
Doesn't the fruit and vegetable industry also prey on the poor and harm the environment?
You mean paying illegal immigrants below poverty wages with no health care?
DWags- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Robert J Sakimano wrote:dude, I don't know. I'm an idiot who hovers right around a third grade reading level.Turtleneck wrote:
But what if the meat industry exacerbates the poverty and racial injustice you clearly - by way of your above post - care about and want to address? Many of the inequities you mention very much relate to poverty and race. Â Does it not become more than just "eating a cheeseburger?" Or are you suggesting that the link between meat and poverty and race is limited, or just not a very important action we can take to address poverty and race?
I'm just saying that once white people stop murdering unarmed black kids.. once the educational system treats minorities and lower income, at risk people with equity, once death row stops murdering low income POC at a significantly higher rate than middle class white people, I'd be happy to entertain cheeseburger eating.
if it's your thing, dude, that's awesome. Seriously.
I was only asking because I would agree with the latter: that to address the issues you identify the consumption of meat is not where you start. The author simply tries to use serious issues to advance his ethical concerns about eating meat. I agree with him, but do not think a major decrease in the consumption of meat would mean the things you mention are magically addressed.
DWags wrote:Turtleneck wrote:
But what if the meat industry exacerbates the poverty and racial injustice you clearly - by way of your above post - care about and want to address?
Just so we can have an honest and interesting debate, please list as many industries as you can think of that don't exacerbate the poverty, and racial injustices in America.
That way, we can maybe decide, of all those which are left, who to correct first. Â As of now, I can't think of many industries which don't harm the poorest of those in society, but if I had a list of importance, I odn't quite know where I'd put the meat industry.
DWags wrote:Turtleneck wrote:
But what if the meat industry exacerbates the poverty and racial injustice you clearly - by way of your above post - care about and want to address?
Just so we can have an honest and interesting debate, please list as many industries as you can think of that don't exacerbate the poverty, and racial injustices in America.
That way, we can maybe decide, of all those which are left, who to correct first. Â As of now, I can't think of many industries which don't harm the poorest of those in society, but if I had a list of importance, I odn't quite know where I'd put the meat industry.
I think many of them do, but I think this is an interesting topic because it is a much easier choice we can make as individuals.
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
NigelUno wrote:Turtleneck wrote:
So if the meat industry as it exists now preys on the poor and is harmful to the climate, why do you support other measures that limit people's individual choices to prevent them from harming others? Same question to you, Steve. It doesn't seems consistent.
Doesn't the fruit and vegetable industry also prey on the poor and harm the environment?
Yes, especially the first one.
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Jesus Christ, if you want to eat meat just eat meat. There are a lot bigger fish to fry than trying to turn everyone vegetarian for the good of the planet. This title can fuck right off.
Watch Out Pylon!- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
I can tell ya that my wife shops at Whole Foods (I can't stand that place).. they assure her that all of the animals within their meat area die a happier death than others.Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Jesus Christ, if you want to eat meat just eat meat. There are a lot bigger fish to fry than trying to turn everyone vegetarian for the good of the planet. This title can fuck right off.
we don't eat a ton of meat.. but, according to Whole Foods, the meat we do eat died with a smile on their face.
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Turtleneck wrote:NigelUno wrote:
Doesn't the fruit and vegetable industry also prey on the poor and harm the environment?
Yes, especially the first one.
Eggs?
I mean...I'm running out of options here. Do I need to stick with soy?
NigelUno- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
I wonder who the rogue tofurkey industry disenfranchises?NigelUno wrote:Turtleneck wrote:
Yes, especially the first one.
Eggs?
I mean...I'm running out of options here. Do I need to stick with soy?
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Robert J Sakimano wrote:I can tell ya that my wife shops at Whole Foods (I can't stand that place).. they assure her that all of the animals within their meat area die a happier death than others.Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Jesus Christ, if you want to eat meat just eat meat. There are a lot bigger fish to fry than trying to turn everyone vegetarian for the good of the planet. This title can fuck right off.
we don't eat a ton of meat.. but, according to Whole Foods, the meat we do eat died with a smile on their face.
I got yelled at when I went to Whole Foods. Put the basket thing on the belt to check out. The cashier lost it. Salmon tasted good though. Not sure if it died happy.
NigelUno- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Liberals always tryna kill the economy.
Motown Spartan- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Jesus Christ, if you want to eat meat just eat meat. There are a lot bigger fish to fry than trying to turn everyone vegetarian for the good of the planet. This title can fuck right off.
Couldn't agree more. Enjoy it people.
steveschneider- Spartiate
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Jesus Christ, if you want to eat meat just eat meat. There are a lot bigger fish to fry than trying to turn everyone vegetarian for the good of the planet. This title can fuck right off.
Settle down pylon no one is going to take away your Slim Jim’s
Travis of the Cosmos- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Jesus Christ, if you want to eat meat just eat meat. There are a lot bigger fish to fry than trying to turn everyone vegetarian for the good of the planet. This title can fuck right off.
Settle down pylon no one is going to take away your Slim Jim’s
Is that actually meat?
DWags- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
not my scene. Too many white people with fancy cars.NigelUno wrote:Robert J Sakimano wrote: I can tell ya that my wife shops at Whole Foods (I can't stand that place).. they assure her that all of the animals within their meat area die a happier death than others.
we don't eat a ton of meat.. but, according to Whole Foods, the meat we do eat died with a smile on their face.
I got yelled at when I went to Whole Foods. Put the basket thing on the belt to check out. The cashier lost it. Salmon tasted good though. Not sure if it died happy.
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Join date : 2014-04-15
Re: This is not going to go over well here
Turtleneck wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/21/opinion/coronavirus-meat-vegetarianism.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes
The End of Meat is Here: If you care about the working poor, about racial justice, and about climate change, you have to stop eating meat.
We can argue this till the cows come home....
Food production, all food production, including broccoli, currently creates greenhouse gases. An all vegan agriculture produces a wide range issues as well soil degradation, pesticides, etc. There are ways to produce meat, dairy and veggies that is sustainable, replenish soil and limit/eliminate greenhouse gasses. We just don't do it. At least not on a mass scale. I would agree we need to do more to curb greenhouse gases. The rest is just spin from either side (meat industry or vegans).
T-neck you watch Game Changers on Netflix? It was pretty good, but still a lot of spin. Eat a well balanced diet of fruits, veggies, nuts, grains and protein. Push for agricultural change to save the environment. Have a beer. Call it a day.
Nordic- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Robert J Sakimano wrote:not my scene. Too many white people with fancy cars.NigelUno wrote:
I got yelled at when I went to Whole Foods. Put the basket thing on the belt to check out. The cashier lost it. Salmon tasted good though. Not sure if it died happy.
You're pretty white, Bob.
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Nordic wrote:
We can argue this till the cows come home....
DWags- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Jesus Christ, if you want to eat meat just eat meat. There are a lot bigger fish to fry than trying to turn everyone vegetarian for the good of the planet. This title can fuck right off.
I agree completely. Like you said, there are bigger fish to fry and if someone has a beef with this view, too bad. I'm not going to ham it up and run around like a chicken with its head cut off just because of some meat shortages.
MiamiSpartan- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
yeah but I don't like white people.. weird, isn't it?Turtleneck wrote:Robert J Sakimano wrote:not my scene. Too many white people with fancy cars.
You're pretty white, Bob.
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
also, they lose me with the silly picture included in the article.. if they want to have an intellectual debate, fine. Trying to make a statement by showing pictures of a bunch of cow carcasses doesn't exactly scream "I'm humble advocate for social justice".
hard to take an attempt at shock value seriously.
hard to take an attempt at shock value seriously.
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Factory farming is bad in pretty much every way other than the price of the meat it produces, and we would all be better off if CAFOs were banned.
However, in my experience, this is not a change you can guilt people into. I fucking love eating meat, and I always have. I was a vegetarian for about 6 years, and I was only able to stick with it for that long because I really believed in it and wanted it for myself.
I firmly believe that there is an ethical, sustainable way for people to eat meat. I also firmly believe that we're not particularly close on either count with the way we do things now.
I'm gonna go have a burger now.
However, in my experience, this is not a change you can guilt people into. I fucking love eating meat, and I always have. I was a vegetarian for about 6 years, and I was only able to stick with it for that long because I really believed in it and wanted it for myself.
I firmly believe that there is an ethical, sustainable way for people to eat meat. I also firmly believe that we're not particularly close on either count with the way we do things now.
I'm gonna go have a burger now.
Cameron- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Robert J Sakimano wrote:also, they lose me with the silly picture included in the article.. if they want to have an intellectual debate, fine. Trying to make a statement by showing pictures of a bunch of cow carcasses doesn't exactly scream "I'm humble advocate for social justice".
hard to take an attempt at shock value seriously.
Hey look, a white man telling people they need to be humble about their causes. Never seen that before.
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
Nordic wrote:Turtleneck wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/21/opinion/coronavirus-meat-vegetarianism.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes
The End of Meat is Here: If you care about the working poor, about racial justice, and about climate change, you have to stop eating meat.
We can argue this till the cows come home....
Food production, all food production, including broccoli, currently creates greenhouse gases. An all vegan agriculture produces a wide range issues as well soil degradation, pesticides, etc. There are ways to produce meat, dairy and veggies that is sustainable, replenish soil and limit/eliminate greenhouse gasses. We just don't do it. At least not on a mass scale. I would agree we need to do more to curb greenhouse gases. The rest is just spin from either side (meat industry or vegans).
T-neck you watch Game Changers on Netflix? It was pretty good, but still a lot of spin. Eat a well balanced diet of fruits, veggies, nuts, grains and protein. Push for agricultural change to save the environment. Have a beer. Call it a day.
I haven't watched it. I will check it out.
For the record, I have never said that I don't eat meat...or that I eat meat. What I do admit to knowing is that meat is murder and that meat (and raw milk) get people riled up around here.
Last edited by Turtleneck on 2020-05-21, 12:56; edited 1 time in total
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: This is not going to go over well here
fixed.Turtleneck wrote:Robert J Sakimano wrote:also, they lose me with the silly picture included in the article.. if they want to have an intellectual debate, fine. Trying to make a statement by showing pictures of a bunch of cow carcasses doesn't exactly scream "I'm humble advocate for social justice".
hard to take an attempt at shock value seriously.
Hey look, an **upper-middle class white man telling people they need to be humble about their causes. Never seen that before.
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
- Posts : 49816
Join date : 2014-04-15
Re: This is not going to go over well here
Turtleneck wrote:Nordic wrote:
We can argue this till the cows come home....
Food production, all food production, including broccoli, currently creates greenhouse gases. An all vegan agriculture produces a wide range issues as well soil degradation, pesticides, etc. There are ways to produce meat, dairy and veggies that is sustainable, replenish soil and limit/eliminate greenhouse gasses. We just don't do it. At least not on a mass scale. I would agree we need to do more to curb greenhouse gases. The rest is just spin from either side (meat industry or vegans).
T-neck you watch Game Changers on Netflix? It was pretty good, but still a lot of spin. Eat a well balanced diet of fruits, veggies, nuts, grains and protein. Push for agricultural change to save the environment. Have a beer. Call it a day.
I haven't watched it. I will check it out.
For the record, I have never said that I don't eat meat...or that I eat meat. What I do admit to knowing is that meat is murder and that meat (and raw milk) get people riled up around here.
It's adorable how cagey you get about insignificant personal details.
Cameron- Geronte
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