1984

Probably going to have to dust off this classic pretty soon. I've read it twice and I think it's one of those works of art that I gain something from it each time. Curious to see what I gain from it during the age of Trump.

There's so much from it that applies to these days. 2 + 2 =5, how the people are lead to believe they've always been at war with Eurasia but this guy remembers clearly five years ago they were at war with East Asia. How they live in a perpetual spy state and how at the end of the book he's forced to say he loves Big Brother.

There's something about Trump ripping on masks, leading his followers to hate masks, to see morons like Aubrey Huff get all macho about his freedumb to not wear one and then on a moments notice all of a sudden it's 'patriotic to wear a mask' because Trump says so.

What a fucked up time to be alive.

Have you read Brave New World? Recently read it for the first time (that I remember) and it was great. One of the best books I've read, I reckon.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Have you read Brave New World? Recently read it for the first time (that I remember) and it was great. One of the best books I've read, I reckon.

Yes, I loved it but don't remember it well. Read it back in the 90's. I read another one of his books called 'Island' that I remember liking as well. Also, I stayed at a retreat in Ojai California that he spent some time at. That's a great hippy town in a valley.

Bless You Boys

Welcome to 2016 steve.

Rocinante wrote:Welcome to 2016 steve.

It would be interesting to hear his thoughts on the last four years. He warned about so many things we see happening these days.

Just got through chapter 1 and the book holds up. It had me at the first sentence 'It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen'.

The whole thing written in 1949 seems like the playbook for suppressing the masses and keeping people obedient in corporate culture.

The thought police, the two minute hate (a rally where the crowd expresses their disgust with the underground leader of the resistance', the party slogan 'War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength'. Also, powerful the first act of rebelion Winston Smith decided to keep a journal of his thoughts and in it takes a guess at what year it is. There are no historical records in Oceania, no dates or sense of time but Winston guesses that it is Aprli 1984.

America is a stupid country.

Please post your summaries of each chapter steve.

Rocinante wrote:Please post your summaries of each chapter steve.

I detect some condescension in that post. Can’t some one just enjoy a book these days without someone coming along and belittling them?

Steve, you’re not going to agree with me and I guess on some level that’s the whole point.... but when you get to the bits about the dangers of blind loyalty to leaders and group think I think it might be a good idea to think about it with some introspection instead of thinking that the only way this book applies to today only has to do with them over there on the other side in Eurasia or in trumpland or Eastasia or wherever but definitely not you because your leaders are good and trustworthy and would never harm you and you love them.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Steve, you’re not going to agree with me and I guess on some level that’s the whole point.... but when you get to the bits about the dangers of blind loyalty to leaders and group think I think it might be a good idea to think about it with some introspection instead of thinking that the only way this book applies to today only has to do with them over there on the other side in Eurasia or in trumpland or Eastasia or wherever but definitely not you because your leaders are good and trustworthy and would never harm you and you love them.

Not so fast, I think your message is spot on. For one the whole spy state theme in the book is chilling and if you think about our own spy state well it was strengthened by Obama and a lot of the liberals in silicon valley.

I'm highly critical of our government in general, corporate power, the wealthy, the police, the greedy lawyers, the media and I think at the core the whole system is fucked.

Well 1984 certainly speaks to government over reach and a totalitarian government. that's not disputed. We certainly have government over reach by both sides of the isle. I think the one difference is, if you really are going to have a totalitarian type of government, you need the army on your side. I never thought the army would be on the side of a left liberal government, but in the end, who ever is in power could certainly convince the army that they need to put down riots, and calm our streets etc.

We're all fucked gentlemen. Go ahead and make fun of my age. at least I have less than two decades of this shit.

DWags wrote:Well 1984 certainly speaks to government over reach and a totalitarian government.   that's not disputed.  We certainly have government over reach by both sides of the isle.  I think the one difference is, if you really are going to have a totalitarian  type of government, you need the army on your side.  I never thought the army would be on the side of a left liberal government, but in the end, who ever is in power could certainly convince the army that they need to put down riots, and calm our streets etc.  

We're all fucked gentlemen.  Go ahead and make fun of my age.   at least I have less than two decades of this shit.  

Agreed. I'm in the early part of the book, but a huge part of the control in 1984 as well besides the military is the thought police and the fear of getting ratted out. In the first chapter Winston has a moment of disbelief where he can't believe what's going on during that moment he makes eye contact with O'brien and he's like wow O'brien feels the same way and then he gets terrified that people will know what he's thinking so he averts his eyes.

We already have a ministry of truth up and running.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:We already have a ministry of truth up and running.

Can you expand upon that? Genuinely interested.

steveschneider wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:We already have a ministry of truth up and running.

Can you expand upon that? Genuinely interested.

The ministry of truth is the propoganda arm of the government. Much like trump's twitter feed, Fox News, OAN, Breitbart, all the Russian twitter bots, so on and so forth.

In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by their philosophy.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by their philosophy.

It's a staggering work of genius. I read Down and Out in Paris and London as well. Both are great books.

"Winston, now free, sits at the Chestnut Tree Café, where dismissed Party members go to drink. He enjoys a glass of Victory Gin and watches the telescreen. He accepts everything the Party says and does. Without acknowledging it to himself, he can still smell the rats. On the table, Winston traces “2 + 2 = 5” in the dust. He remembers seeing Julia on a bitter-cold day that March. She had thickened and stiffened, and he now found the thought of sex with her repulsive. "