Bernie Sanders bread line forming in Ypsi

xsanguine wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:She could study the social sciences or humanities. This election,
and most of the way the general public seems to go about understanding politics, society and economics, is a pretty good example of the failure of the liberal arts education in this country.

That is oddly arousing.

I'm about to have a daughter, guys. I'm starting to rethink many decisions over the past few years. I've always felt the best approach is to let them explore the ideas themselves and to bounce those ideas against opposing viewpoints explained by people that actually believe those opposing viewpoints...

But now you guys are making me think I need to re-evaluate and go all Kim Jung Il or whatever his name is and shut down all media. Maybe raise her in a cabin with no electricity (it'd have running water, I'm not a fucking savage) and provide her with an encyclopedia britannica from whatever year I can determine this indoctrination started.

And yes, TN, I realize what you would see as the irony.

Turtleneck wrote:This election,and most of the way the general public seems to go about understanding politics, society and economics, is a pretty good example of the failure of the liberal arts education in this country.

You mean like Bernie? We should be teaching economics starting in grade school, too many clueless people that truly believe you can get something for nothing.

Margaret Thatcher wrote:“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”

xsanguine wrote:I'm about to have a daughter, guys. I'm starting to rethink many decisions over the past few years. I've always felt the best approach is to let them explore the ideas themselves and to bounce those ideas against opposing viewpoints explained by people that actually believe those opposing viewpoints...

But now you guys are making me think I need to re-evaluate and go all Kim Jung Il or whatever his name is and shut down all media. Maybe raise her in a cabin with no electricity (it'd have running water, I'm not a fucking savage) and provide her with an encyclopedia britannica from whatever year I can determine this indoctrination started.

And yes, TN, I realize what you would see as the irony.

Congratulations! Who is the father? Kidding. Congrats, bro.

The whole cabin thing is a good idea. Capitalism makes us weak and does not teach us to be self-sufficient. It makes us dependent on what other's produce. Teach her key life skills and how to survive on her own and then send her out into the world. I would not do it to shield her from ideas, but would make sure she could kill a bear with nothing more than a spear she made by hand.

Let's just allow trickle down economics to take place.

Turtleneck wrote:

xsanguine wrote:I'm about to have a daughter, guys. I'm starting to rethink many decisions over the past few years. I've always felt the best approach is to let them explore the ideas themselves and to bounce those ideas against opposing viewpoints explained by people that actually believe those opposing viewpoints...

But now you guys are making me think I need to re-evaluate and go all Kim Jung Il or whatever his name is and shut down all media. Maybe raise her in a cabin with no electricity (it'd have running water, I'm not a fucking savage) and provide her with an encyclopedia britannica from whatever year I can determine this indoctrination started.

And yes, TN, I realize what you would see as the irony.

Congratulations!  Who is the father? Kidding. Congrats, bro.

The whole cabin thing is a good idea. Capitalism makes us weak and does not teach us to be self-sufficient. It makes us dependent on what other's produce. Teach her key life skills and how to survive on her own and then send her out into the world. I would not do it to shield her from ideas, but would make sure she could kill a bear with nothing more than a spear she made by hand.

I just envision it more like this:

...now go make your own clothes.

I.B. Fine wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:

Congratulations!  Who is the father? Kidding. Congrats, bro.

The whole cabin thing is a good idea. Capitalism makes us weak and does not teach us to be self-sufficient. It makes us dependent on what other's produce. Teach her key life skills and how to survive on her own and then send her out into the world. I would not do it to shield her from ideas, but would make sure she could kill a bear with nothing more than a spear she made by hand.

I just envision it more like this:

beat me to it

I.B. Fine wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:This election,and most of the way the general public seems to go about understanding politics, society and economics, is a pretty good example of the failure of the liberal arts education in this country.

You mean like Bernie? We should be teaching economics starting in grade school, too many clueless people that truly believe you can get something for nothing.

Margaret Thatcher wrote:“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”

The point is not to indoctrinate people as you suggest. The point is not to tell people what to believe, or tell people what is worthwhile and what is worthless. The point is to teach people about competing ideas. The point is to give people the education they need to think critically - to be able to question and deconstruct opposing ideas as well as their own - and become informed and active citizens. The kind of citizens are framers thought we could never be. It is probably too late.

Turtleneck wrote:

xsanguine wrote:I'm about to have a daughter, guys. I'm starting to rethink many decisions over the past few years. I've always felt the best approach is to let them explore the ideas themselves and to bounce those ideas against opposing viewpoints explained by people that actually believe those opposing viewpoints...

But now you guys are making me think I need to re-evaluate and go all Kim Jung Il or whatever his name is and shut down all media. Maybe raise her in a cabin with no electricity (it'd have running water, I'm not a fucking savage) and provide her with an encyclopedia britannica from whatever year I can determine this indoctrination started.

And yes, TN, I realize what you would see as the irony.

Congratulations!  Who is the father? Kidding. Congrats, bro.

The whole cabin thing is a good idea. Capitalism makes us weak and does not teach us to be self-sufficient. It makes us dependent on what other's produce. Teach her key life skills and how to survive on her own and then send her out into the world. I would not do it to shield her from ideas, but would make sure she could kill a bear with nothing more than a spear she made by hand.

Meh, what's the point. She'll end up being thieved from like the rest of us.

Unless there's an apocalypse, then your plan sounds legit.

Therefore.....

I feel the BERN!!! Get this guy in there yesterday.

Edit: And thank you very much.

xsanguine wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:

Congratulations!  Who is the father? Kidding. Congrats, bro.

The whole cabin thing is a good idea. Capitalism makes us weak and does not teach us to be self-sufficient. It makes us dependent on what other's produce. Teach her key life skills and how to survive on her own and then send her out into the world. I would not do it to shield her from ideas, but would make sure she could kill a bear with nothing more than a spear she made by hand.

Meh, what's the point. She'll end up being thieved from like the rest of us.

Unless there's an apocalypse, then your plan sounds legit.

Therefore.....

I feel the BERN!!! Get this guy in there yesterday.

Edit: And thank you very much.

By government? By greedy corporations that will exploit her? By Nickleback? By all three? Because all three steal from us.

Turtleneck wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

Meh, what's the point. She'll end up being thieved from like the rest of us.

Unless there's an apocalypse, then your plan sounds legit.

Therefore.....

I feel the BERN!!! Get this guy in there yesterday.

Edit: And thank you very much.

By government? By greedy corporations that will exploit her? By Nickleback? By all three? Because all three steal from us.

Yes, by all. I was going to qualify that statement but after thinking through and down the lines I realized it's true as is.

Turtleneck wrote:

I.B. Fine wrote:
You mean like Bernie? We should be teaching economics starting in grade school, too many clueless people that truly believe you can get something for nothing.

The point is not to indoctrinate people as you suggest. The point is not to tell people what to believe, or tell people what is worthwhile and what is worthless. The point is to teach people about competing ideas. The point is to give people the education they need to think critically - to be able to question and deconstruct opposing ideas as well as their own - and become informed and active citizens. The kind of citizens are framers thought we could never be. It is probably too late.

I guess I don't see teaching economics as indoctrination anymore than teaching math or science is. Basic economics is very predictable, yet so many people I see are oblivious to it.
But I suppose that is what you are saying about critical thinking, you hope a kid will figure it out, I feel like it used to be taught more in high school, but now you hope that light comes on in college, but it doesn't happen near as often as you'd hope.

What are you going to name her? Misty Lynn?

I.B. Fine wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:

The point is not to indoctrinate people as you suggest. The point is not to tell people what to believe, or tell people what is worthwhile and what is worthless. The point is to teach people about competing ideas. The point is to give people the education they need to think critically - to be able to question and deconstruct opposing ideas as well as their own - and become informed and active citizens. The kind of citizens are framers thought we could never be. It is probably too late.

I guess I don't see teaching economics as indoctrination anymore than teaching math or science is. Basic economics is very predictable, yet so many people I see are oblivious to it.
But I suppose that is what you are saying about critical thinking, you hope a kid will figure it out, I feel like it used to be taught more in high school, but now you hope that light comes on in college, but it doesn't happen near as often as you'd hope.

I did not say teaching economics is indoctrination. Unless you infuse it with personal values and leave out competing ideas. The idea is to introduce people to a broad range of ideas and, as you said, let them figure it out.

Turtleneck wrote:What are you going to name her? Misty Lynn?

heh.

I don't put a lot of emotional stock into names but we settled on Giulianna or Julianna, which is similar to a relative of mine... not sure the spelling yet but I think it's the G version.

Those are good names. If I had a daughter, I would name her Soul Crusher or maybe Carrot Juicer.

Turtleneck wrote:

I did not say teaching economics is indoctrination. Unless you infuse it with personal values and leave out competing ideas. The idea is to introduce people to a broad range of ideas and, as you said, let them figure it out.

It's hard to figure things out correctly if the required information is being withheld, I think we agree on that.
I see lot's of examples of 'experts' (politicians?), that don't have a clue how little they really know, offering solutions to all our problems.

xsanguine wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:What are you going to name her? Misty Lynn?

heh.

I don't put a lot of emotional stock into names but we settled on Giulianna or Julianna, which is similar to a relative of mine... not sure the spelling yet but I think it's the G version.

So you're related to Rudy G.?

Turtleneck wrote:Those are good names. If I had a daughter, I would name her Soul Crusher or maybe Carrot Juicer.

If I have another I'll name her Abella Anderson... that'll keep her off the pole.

Abella Anderson

I.B. Fine wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

heh.

I don't put a lot of emotional stock into names but we settled on Giulianna or Julianna, which is similar to a relative of mine... not sure the spelling yet but I think it's the G version.

So you're related to Rudy G.?

Hah, I wish! I'd be an Italian.

Turtleneck wrote:

Abella Anderson

Lotta inspiration for that name. You usually want to name your children after your inspirations, right?

Henrietta. Now that my daughter refused to use it I'll release it to you.

xsanguine wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:

Lotta inspiration for that name. You usually want to name your children after your inspirations, right?

LooseGoose wrote:Henrietta. Now that my daughter refused to use it I'll release it to you.

Interesting story...

http://rebeccaskloot.com/the-immortal-life/