I'm confused

by **Tim Wakefield** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 12:49

Seems to me that liberals want background checks/strict gun laws, but no voter ID. Conservatives wants strict voter ID laws but lenient gun laws. Fuckin why?

I personally think we should have strict background checks on guns and voter ID laws. Im told that my opinion makes me a racist. Stupidest thing I've ever heard

by TheReal_LWS Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 12:56

We already have strict background checks on gun purchases. Go try to buy a gun and you'll find you have to fill out 4 pages of paperwork, then sit there while the FBI digs into your paper-trail-anus.

However, all I have to do is know your name and address and I can show up at the polling station before you and vote in your name. And liberals love that. That way the same law-breaking dem can vote multiple times in each election.

And according to Billary, the fact that you are white makes you a racist. Apparently thinking photo ID is necessary to vote also makes you racist because apparently black folks don't got those.

by **Floyd Robertson** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 13:16

TheReal_LWS wrote:We already have strict background checks on gun purchases. Go try to buy a gun and you'll find you have to fill out 4 pages of paperwork, then sit there while the FBI digs into your paper-trail-anus.

However, all I have to do is know your name and address and I can show up at the polling station before you and vote in your name. And liberals love that. That way the same law-breaking dem can vote multiple times in each election.

And according to Billary, the fact that you are white makes you a racist. Apparently thinking photo ID is necessary to vote also makes you racist because apparently black folks don't got those.

I think we might have gotten past the "vote multiple times" issue. Without ID, thought, there's no proof of who's voting. The Dems only complaint about that is their voting bloc is less likely to have access to government-issued IDs, to which I say, don't care. No ID, no vote.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 13:19

I don't want black people to vote because they tend to vote for people who keep giving them things so they can keep being lazy.

and I keep guns so I can pertekt myself from these sorts of black people..

if you have a problem with it, take it up with jesus.

by **Tim Wakefield** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 13:34

Predictable replies from LWS and Bob. Anyone else got any thoughts?

by TheReal_LWS Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 13:42

Tim Wakefield wrote:Predictable replies from LWS and Bob. Anyone else got any thoughts?

Predictable? I told you the truth. Ok, so how do we make background checks any stricter?

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 13:44

The voting thing is purely about republicans trying to limit democratic voters and democrats saying there isn't really a problem with voter fraud (because there isn't and because they don't want to limit their own voters.) it isn't about anything beyond that and various republicans have even admitted as such, to their credit.

Given that that's what that's about, its less comparable to guns and more comparable to gerrymandering (though not really. But if I were to draw an analogy that would be more comparable.)

by **Robert J Sakimano** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 13:45

Tim Wakefield wrote:Predictable replies from LWS and Bob. Anyone else got any thoughts?

you can call my fear of black people "predictable" all you want... but being predictable is what pertekts my family from them.

by **Tim Wakefield** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 13:54

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:The voting thing is purely about republicans trying to limit democratic voters and democrats saying there isn't really a problem with voter fraud (because there isn't and because they don't want to limit their own voters.) it isn't about anything beyond that and various republicans have even admitted as such, to their credit.

Given that that's what that's about, its less comparable to guns and more comparable to gerrymandering (though not really. But if I were to draw an analogy that would be more comparable.)

Source? The voter ID thing isn't something I know a lot about.

I just figured you would need an ID to vote, because duh, and was surprised to find out that I'm apparently a racist for thinking that.

by **Turtleneck** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 14:05

The data suggests - and I know how you guys really hate data and any legitimate research since it gets in the way of spectacular points - that one political party benefits from low voter turnout relative to the other. So, when it comes to voter ID laws, just saying...

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 14:09

You're not really a racist for thinking that. That's just grandstanding by one side to say why the other is wrong. Like tn said though, the issue isn't about racism or voter fraud or anything like that. One side benefits in terms of votes by having an id law and one doesn't. Shockingly their beliefs line up exactly with what their side benefits by the most. That's all it is.

by **Turtleneck** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 14:16

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:You're not really a racist for thinking that. That's just grandstanding by one side to say why the other is wrong. Like tn said though, the issue isn't about racism or voter fraud or anything like that. One side benefits in terms of votes by having an id law and one doesn't. Shockingly their beliefs line up exactly with what their side benefits by the most. That's all it is.

I think it is important to remember - at least when posting at tSwill - the Democratic party is the only party that manipulates electoral law to win elections. The Republican Party is clean as a whistle. We could say, that since it is a two-party system and both parties are fighting for a legislative majority, they will both manipulate the law to win seats. However, saying that seems unreasonable and it is best to stick with the "only Democrats do it" narrative. Also, Donald Trump is not corrupt.

by **Tim Wakefield** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 14:18

So democrats just can't get their hands on an ID, that's the problem? What actual percentage of people, that would like to vote, aren't able to get an ID?

Also ftr I'm pretty conservative but definitely not republican (I know, everyone says that. It's true though).. Fuck trump. I'm voting for Izzo

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 14:23

Actually, with the republicans new found base I kind of wonder if their plan here could backfire on them...

But, in general, yeah a poorer person is more likely to not have an id (though, were not talking a large percentage here) than a more affluent person. And people's opinions on this issue lands right where they think will help them win an election more.

by TheReal_LWS Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 14:30

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Actually, with the republicans new found base I kind of wonder if their plan here could backfire on them...

But, in general, yeah a poorer person is more likely to not have an id (though, were not talking a large percentage here) than a more affluent person. And people's opinions on this issue lands right where they think will help them win an election more.

Travis, if they don't have a government issued ID what is the chance that they are registered to vote?

by **Floyd Robertson** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 14:30

Turtleneck wrote:The data suggests - and I know how you guys really hate data and any legitimate research since it gets in the way of spectacular points - that one political party benefits from low voter turnout relative to the other. So, when it comes to voter ID laws, just saying...

Maybe the party that who opposes voter ID laws on the grounds that it minimizes it's voting bloc should, I don't know, enact laws that make state ID cards free of charge?

I mean, in Michigan, they're only free if you're 65 or older. Otherwise, $10.

by **Tim Wakefield** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 14:34

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Actually, with the republicans new found base I kind of wonder if their plan here could backfire on them...

But, in general, yeah a poorer person is more likely to not have an id (though, were not talking a large percentage here) than a more affluent person. And people's opinions on this issue lands right where they think will help them win an election more.

I don't give a shit about the politics of it to be honest. I think it's more common sense (why the hell wouldn't you need an ID to vote?). I don't want Trump to win the election, but he probably agrees with me on the ID thing.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 14:34

Again, the answer to your question Floyd is because none of this is about having Id or worrying about voter fraud. They don't want to do that because that would be all the more reason to allow the other side to get their way.

It's another one of those times where politicians are wasting time talking about a nonissue purely for the purpose of winning an election. Anyone that is sick of "the establishment" or "politics as usual" should completely reject this as a non issue. But they don't.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 14:35

Wake, if you don't give a shit about the politics then you shouldn't give a shit about the issue because that's ALL it is. It's a solution without a problem.

by **Tim Wakefield** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 14:37

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Wake, if you don't give a shit about the politics then you shouldn't give a shit about the issue because that's ALL it is. It's a solution without a problem.

I realize that its effect on the election is statistically insignificant. It's just the concept of it that blows my mind..I just don't understand! Why even have voter registration if you don't need to show ID to exercise your right to vote?

by **Turtleneck** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 14:37

Floyd Robertson wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:The data suggests - and I know how you guys really hate data and any legitimate research since it gets in the way of spectacular points - that one political party benefits from low voter turnout relative to the other. So, when it comes to voter ID laws, just saying...

Maybe the party that who opposes voter ID laws on the grounds that it minimizes it's voting bloc should, I don't know, enact laws that make state ID cards free of charge?

I mean, in Michigan, they're only free if you're 65 or older. Otherwise, $10.

Why should the burden fall on anybody other than those advocating for the change?

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 14:41

becsuse it isn't causing a problem with voter fraud to not have Id laws? That's pretty much it. Why fix a nonexistent problem? If it proves to start being a problem then go ahead and revisit it. Again, your opinion on that only exists because people made a big issue of it because it serves their political interests. That's my point wake.... if it wasn't in their favor to have an id law, then they never would have said a word and you never would have thought about it because it's a nonissue.

by TheReal_LWS Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 14:56

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:becsuse it isn't causing a problem with voter fraud to not have Id laws? That's pretty much it. Why fix a nonexistent problem? If it proves to start being a problem then go ahead and revisit it. Again, your opinion on that only exists because people made a big issue of it because it serves their political interests. That's my point wake.... if it wasn't in their favor to have an id law, then they never would have said a word and you never would have thought about it because it's a nonissue.

Of course there is no way to quantify the problem, so the fact that there is no ID requirement is the problem.

by **Turtleneck** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 14:59

TheReal_LWS wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:becsuse it isn't causing a problem with voter fraud to not have Id laws? That's pretty much it. Why fix a nonexistent problem? If it proves to start being a problem then go ahead and revisit it. Again, your opinion on that only exists because people made a big issue of it because it serves their political interests. That's my point wake.... if it wasn't in their favor to have an id law, then they never would have said a word and you never would have thought about it because it's a nonissue.

Of course there is no way to quantify the problem, so the fact that there is no ID requirement is the problem.

I am not even sure that makes sense.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 15:03

If I told you this rock prevents bear attacks would you buy it from me for $100 just to make sure you don't get attacked by bears?

That's a simpsons joke.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 15:04

I'm all for voter restriction.. because voter fraud is running absolutely rampant in society... people are just voting at an alarming rate.

However, gun restriction? I see no way in which gun violence is impacting society at all.

by **Rocinante** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 17:34

It shouldn't be that confusing Wake. People who are really poor may not have a state issued ID or a way to easily get one. Yet they are still citizens of the US and have the right to vote. Either: State issued IDs are free, and easy to obtain, OR Voter ID laws affect poor people much more. There's nothing wrong with a provisional ballot.

by SomeFanName Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 17:45

Why can't we just have both? Needing to verify who are in order to participate have your voice count is logical, the issue surrounding accessibility to government issued ID is a completely separate issue (fix that first, then move on to voter ID).

Having more extensive background checks for somebody purchasing a weapon that's sole design is to cause damage is also logical.

by **Death Roe** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 18:05

TheReal_LWS wrote:We already have strict background checks on gun purchases. Go try to buy a gun and you'll find you have to fill out 4 pages of paperwork, then sit there while the FBI digs into your paper-trail-anus.

The background check does not go that far into your history. They need more direct questions.

by **Rocinante** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 18:26

SomeFanName wrote:Why can't we just have both? Needing to verify who are in order to participate have your voice count is logical, the issue surrounding accessibility to government issued ID is a completely separate issue (fix that first, then move on to voter ID).

Having more extensive background checks for somebody purchasing a weapon that's sole design is to cause damage is also logical.

I agree! If we can assure that every citizen gets a FREE, easy to get (meaning within walking distance of their home) ID, I'm fine with voter ID laws. That is a monumental task though. And one that bypasses republican calls for ID laws, which really are not about everyone who has a right to vote voting, but actually about keeping some people with a right to vote FROM voting.

by Guest Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 20:23

Turtleneck wrote:The data suggests - and I know how you guys really hate data and any legitimate research since it gets in the way of spectacular points - that one political party benefits from low voter turnout relative to the other. So, when it comes to voter ID laws, just saying...

Yes it's true the R's benefit when illegal voters are weeded out. What a shocker that they would support that. About as much of a shocker as D's supporting the illegal votes since they benefit from them.

by **Turtleneck** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 20:38

LooseGoose wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:The data suggests - and I know how you guys really hate data and any legitimate research since it gets in the way of spectacular points - that one political party benefits from low voter turnout relative to the other. So, when it comes to voter ID laws, just saying...

Yes it's true the R's benefit when illegal voters are weeded out. What a shocker that they would support that. About as much of a shocker as D's supporting the illegal votes since they benefit from them.

I do not think you fully grasp the point being made. While raw milk might enhance immune systems, it seems to do nothing for brain activity.

by **The_Dude** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 22:15

Turtleneck wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

Yes it's true the R's benefit when illegal voters are weeded out. What a shocker that they would support that. About as much of a shocker as D's supporting the illegal votes since they benefit from them.

I do not think you fully grasp the point being made. While raw milk might enhance immune systems, it seems to do nothing for brain activity.

I don't think you do.

by **Turtleneck** Thu 6 Oct 2016 - 22:49

The_Dude wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:

I do not think you fully grasp the point being made. While raw milk might enhance immune systems, it seems to do nothing for brain activity.

I don't think you do.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Fri 7 Oct 2016 - 8:02

as long as lazy colored people can't vote, I'm okay with it.

#Trump2106
#MakeAmericaWhiteAgain

by AnomanderRake Fri 7 Oct 2016 - 9:26

I haven't seen anyone in this thread explain the circumstances of why some voters do not have an ID or cannot get an ID.

1) Poor urban folks that cannot afford a car and have no reason to get a driver's license, primarily walk/bike/use public transportation.
2) Elderly that have invalid birth certificates or discrepancies between birth certificate, social security card etc make it very difficult if not impossible to get a government issued ID.
3) People that work during SOS/Department of Motor office hours and are unable to miss work to go wait in line for an hour or two to get an ID.
4) People that have recently lost their ID and have not had a chance to get a new one yet.
5) People with ancient IDs that are no longer valid or possibly illegible.
6) Rural folks that would have to travel far to get an ID.

There are actually a few million Americans that do not have a photo ID, which is surprising to many but consider how many people are impacted by the circumstances above. There are definitely not a few million fraudulent votes in every election so the Voter ID laws, if enacted nation wide, have a disproportionate impact on Americans that should be able to vote.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Fri 7 Oct 2016 - 9:32

AnomanderRake wrote:I haven't seen anyone in this thread explain the circumstances of why some voters do not have an ID or cannot get an ID.

1) Poor urban folks that cannot afford a car and have no reason to get a driver's license, primarily walk/bike/use public transportation.
2) Elderly that have invalid birth certificates or discrepancies between birth certificate, social security card etc make it very difficult if not impossible to get a government issued ID.
3) People that work during SOS/Department of Motor office hours and are unable to miss work to go wait in line for an hour or two to get an ID.
4) People that have recently lost their ID and have not had a chance to get a new one yet.
5) People with ancient IDs that are no longer valid or possibly illegible.
6) Rural folks that would have to travel far to get an ID.

There are actually a few million Americans that do not have a photo ID, which is surprising to many but consider how many people are impacted by the circumstances above. There are definitely not a few million fraudulent votes in every election so the Voter ID laws, if enacted nation wide, have a disproportionate impact on Americans that should be able to vote.

you have to show an ID to get on an airplane.. and, as we all know, poor black people fly all the time..

so I don't wanna hear this whiny "I don't have an ID" excuse....

by **Turtleneck** Fri 7 Oct 2016 - 10:22

AnomanderRake wrote:I haven't seen anyone in this thread explain the circumstances of why some voters do not have an ID or cannot get an ID.

1) Poor urban folks that cannot afford a car and have no reason to get a driver's license, primarily walk/bike/use public transportation.
2) Elderly that have invalid birth certificates or discrepancies between birth certificate, social security card etc make it very difficult if not impossible to get a government issued ID.
3) People that work during SOS/Department of Motor office hours and are unable to miss work to go wait in line for an hour or two to get an ID.
4) People that have recently lost their ID and have not had a chance to get a new one yet.
5) People with ancient IDs that are no longer valid or possibly illegible.
6) Rural folks that would have to travel far to get an ID.

There are actually a few million Americans that do not have a photo ID, which is surprising to many but consider how many people are impacted by the circumstances above. There are definitely not a few million fraudulent votes in every election so the Voter ID laws, if enacted nation wide, have a disproportionate impact on Americans that should be able to vote.

Those seem like good points. Not sure you want to post good points here. Stick to discussing how Obama used NASA to strengthen Hurricane Matthew in hopes of destroying some of Trump's
Florida properties.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Fri 7 Oct 2016 - 10:25

Turtleneck wrote:
AnomanderRake wrote:I haven't seen anyone in this thread explain the circumstances of why some voters do not have an ID or cannot get an ID.

1) Poor urban folks that cannot afford a car and have no reason to get a driver's license, primarily walk/bike/use public transportation.
2) Elderly that have invalid birth certificates or discrepancies between birth certificate, social security card etc make it very difficult if not impossible to get a government issued ID.
3) People that work during SOS/Department of Motor office hours and are unable to miss work to go wait in line for an hour or two to get an ID.
4) People that have recently lost their ID and have not had a chance to get a new one yet.
5) People with ancient IDs that are no longer valid or possibly illegible.
6) Rural folks that would have to travel far to get an ID.

There are actually a few million Americans that do not have a photo ID, which is surprising to many but consider how many people are impacted by the circumstances above. There are definitely not a few million fraudulent votes in every election so the Voter ID laws, if enacted nation wide, have a disproportionate impact on Americans that should be able to vote.

Those seem like good points. Not sure you want to post good points here. Stick to discussing how Obama used NASA to strengthen Hurricane Matthew in hopes of destroying some of Trump's
Florida properties.

exactly.

by SomeFanName Fri 7 Oct 2016 - 12:18

I have black friends

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