So Ben Carson Believes That Poverty Is Just a Mindset..

X assumes equality = special benefits. He also finds the most out there people and then attaches their bahavior to the rest of us. There are plenty of successful blacks that also recognize racism and inequality. Why don't you espouse to their philosophies x? Is it because they don't reinforce your prejudices? Hmmm.

Rocinante wrote:X assumes equality = special benefits. He also finds the most out there people and then attaches their bahavior to the rest of us. There are plenty of successful blacks that also recognize racism and inequality. Why don't you espouse to their philosophies x? Is it because they don't reinforce your prejudices?  Hmmm.  

Because, in my opinion, they are weak human beings. Or have ulterior motives. Or both. And I do bring those people's philosophies up, I just argue against them. I'm obviously being facetious.

There is no such thing as 'equality'. Everyone I've met is either better than me or worse than me. We're all individuals with varying skills and experiences. I dunno, man... I just prefer the motivational philosophy of Carson/Sowell/Elder/etc, not the defeatist philosophy. Quit bitching, get a plan together, find some motivation/inspiration/whatever it is you need to do... and go and do it. No one is stopping you.
That's the message for everyone, though. I see white kids just out of college that have this attitude, too. "I need to find someone that will hire me and pay me to do assigned tasks for them and no one will hire meeeeee!!!". No, you don't have to do that. Think outside the box. There are unlimited opportunities that exist everywhere.

Of course I will grant you the drug war. And I would throw in the welfare state, too, even though we disagree. Those are the remaining vestiges of slavery... but those things effect everyone.

Get a plan together? What if the plan is to fight the racist system and ensure equal opportunity for all? Just like saying "black lives matter" doesn't mean other lives don't, just that there are literally centuries behind us when black lives mattered significantly less than white lives, equal opportunity for blacks doesn't mean white privilege makes white's lives without struggle. Being bitter because you weren't born with a silver spoon in your mouth while simultaneously belittling blacks (or allies) for pointing out historical and systematic racism in American society is BS. Nobody wants a handout. Just the same chance to rise. And it's complicated. You can't boil it down to a meme or a catchphrase. But it's real.

She lived below 7 and Mack till her sophomore year. That's Detroit. In 67 her dad was hosing down his business a dodging bullets during the riots. If that's an escape to the burbs it is. Assumptions are always made.

Rocinante wrote:Get a plan together?  What if the plan is to fight the racist system and ensure equal opportunity for all?  Just like saying "black lives matter" doesn't mean other lives don't, just that there are literally centuries behind us when black lives mattered significantly less than white lives, equal opportunity for blacks doesn't mean white privilege makes white's lives without struggle. Being bitter because you weren't born with a silver spoon in your mouth while simultaneously belittling blacks (or allies) for pointing out historical and systematic racism in American society is BS. Nobody wants a handout. Just the same chance to rise. And it's complicated. You can't boil it down to a meme or a catchphrase. But it's real.

Then you can fight ghosts your entire life if that's what you choose to do. No one is holding you back. If you can point the individual who is racist... I will be right there with you. You're pointing to nothing specific by saying "the system". You can't fight something you can't define. Show me a law and we'll sing in harmony about it.
Don't buy into Dwags passive aggression. I have nothing to be bitter about. GRR made an implication and I explained it to him (didn't matter, of course). The point was, everyone who grows up somewhere where they're different is going to deal with that shit. I would argue getting jumped like that happens less in the burbs than it does in the inner cities but who cares? Maybe teachers in the burbs call minority kids names like that, too. And they should be called out and fired. I was like 8 or 9 years old, I just figured that's how it was.
The problem is I don't see anyone pointing out anything specific unless they go back 60+ years. If there are laws on the books that are keeping black people or Mexican people or Chinese people from doing stuff that the law allows others to do... then name it and let's go get it changed. I have no problem with that.

I don't see that, though. I see people bitching about nothing in particular. What I see on here boils down to "white people suck... and so do black guys that don't share this 'woe is me' attitude."

DWags wrote:She lived below 7 and Mack till her sophomore year. That's Detroit. In 67 her dad was hosing down his business a dodging bullets during the riots.  If that's an escape to the burbs it is.  Assumptions are always made.  

Sounds like she did escape to the burbs after her sophomore year. I wonder why.

I know white people that lived in Detroit before/during white flight, too. At some point they were no longer welcome. And that's fine. I understand the concept of revenge. I just don't think it's useful if "equality" is the aim.

DWags wrote:

GRR Spartan wrote:Did X man get his ass kicked by black kids growing up?

.

I'd guess way more than just black guys. If this dude isn't X I'll eat one of my hats.

Are you sure your wife wasn't getting the train instead of being bussed?

You didn't watch 13th did you?

I haven't gotten around to watching it, Roc.

You won't like it.

It doesn't say what you want to hear. But hey, if you promise to watch it all the way through, I promise to watch something you recommend that will help me understand you.

Rocinante wrote:You won't like it.

I've seen a lot of documentaries on race. Is it more groundbreaking than anything else of the past 15 years?

xsanguine wrote:

Rocinante wrote:You won't like it.

I've seen a lot of documentaries on race.

Yeah I doubt it.

What is 13th?

Rocinante wrote:It doesn't say what you want to hear. But hey, if you promise to watch it all the way through, I promise to watch something you recommend that will help me understand you.

You don't need to watch anything of mine or feel obligated just because I watched something of yours. I prefer to explain my position (ad nauseum). I mean I have graphs and this and that but this particular thread is really about attitude.
I believe the same thing certain teachers/role models told me... attitude is 90% of your success. If you walk around thinking the world, the system is out to get you... you've already failed. I believe in a positive mindset. I believe the negative mindset hinders people.

That's it. The rest is just window dressing. If you believe continuously telling black kids that they have to work twice as hard to get half as far is productive... then have at it. We don't have to continue arguing about it.

I'm going to be pretty busy helping my father in law with the fiesta this weekend and I just had my crutches taken away from me this morning. This means I probably won't be around much after today because I got some projects I have to catch up on that have been neglected for 6 weeks.

Probably for the best. The board has certainly gotten a lot nastier, of which I share in the blame.

Au revoir!

"If you believe continuously telling black kids that they have to work twice as hard to get half as far is productive... then have at it."

This is why we can't talk.

Have a nice weekend.

xsanguine wrote:

DWags wrote:She lived below 7 and Mack till her sophomore year. That's Detroit. In 67 her dad was hosing down his business a dodging bullets during the riots.  If that's an escape to the burbs it is.  Assumptions are always made.  

Sounds like she did escape to the burbs after her sophomore year. I wonder why.

I know white people that lived in Detroit before/during white flight, too. At some point they were no longer welcome. And that's fine. I understand the concept of revenge. I just don't think it's useful if "equality" is the aim.

Dads job. Still did the 40 minute drive into Ft Street church to help out where they could. I love your assumptions. Blanchesque

I posted this in the other board; however he is flat out wrong. Sounds nice to say but it's not true, there is no "mindset". I've worked with poor people in the past as a social worker (MSW). So if Dr. Carson wants to point me to a peer reviewed evidence that I've missed then I'll happily change my mind.

The poor bust butt everyday and try to make it. Example that we seem to forget, many Veterans are very poor and often homeless. I doubt Ben Carson would say they have the wrong mindset, or wait do you know that per capita the Mulism population has more MD and PH.Ds. Maybe they have the "right " mindset.

Complex issue but in my experience I would say Ben is off base.

msugolfguy wrote:I posted this in the other board; however he is flat out wrong. Sounds nice to say but it's not true, there is no "mindset". I've worked with poor people in the past as a social worker (MSW). So if Dr. Carson wants to point me to a peer reviewed evidence that I've missed then I'll happily change my mind.

The poor bust butt everyday and try to make it. Example that we seem to forget, many Veterans are very poor and often homeless. I doubt Ben Carson would say they have the wrong mindset, or wait do you know that per capita the Mulism population has more MD and PH.Ds. Maybe they have the "right " mindset.

Complex issue but in my experience I would say Ben is off base.

yep - anyone who has ever worked with those who live in poverty or come from a disadvantaged background know that Carson is way off with his assessment.

of course, it makes republicans feel better about themselves which is why he says such things. Either that or he really is as tone deaf as he seems. Either way, he needs to leave his mansion periodically and witness how difficult life can be for some.

I'm wondering where the cries of "class warfare!" are. They would actually be appropriate, for once.