When the Left Turns on Its Own

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/opinion/when-the-left-turns-on-its-own.html



Social Justice Warrior ideology is poisonous.

Summary Cameron. Summary. I'm not reading or watching that without context.

You'll get there. Always start out like you're presenting to the executive. They don't have time for your bullshit. Grab them with the key points then beat them down with details later.

What I'm getting at is no one is going to look at this. Maybe x will. But otherwise your message will go unheard. If no one watches this video or reads the whole link, then there was no point. You gotta grab them, bring them in for a reason, then prove your point.

For another analogy... you just bought a whore, then in the first 90 seconds jizzed in her face and you're expecting her to know what gets you off. That's ridiculous.

Bret Weinstein writing for the WSJ.

You can find the email here, along with some commentary and some youtube video.

Here is an op-ed that I largely agree with.

This is bigger than just protesting Milo Yiannopoulos and Ann Coulter. This shit is out of control.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Summary Cameron. Summary. I'm not reading or watching that without context.

You'll get there. Always start out like you're presenting to the executive. They don't have time for your bullshit. Grab them with the key points then beat them down with details later.

What I'm getting at is no one is going to look at this. Maybe x will. But otherwise your message will go unheard. If no one watches this video or reads the whole link, then there was no point. You gotta grab them, bring them in for a reason, then prove your point.

For another analogy... you just bought a whore, then in the first 90 seconds jizzed in her face and you're expecting her to know what gets you off. That's ridiculous.

Fine.

TL;DR - Liberal college institutes day in which white people are banned from campus. Professor objects, students get hysterical and engage in intimidation, while the administration orders campus police not to guarantee the safety of the professor.

And for the record, your last analogy was terrible. If I jizz in her face within 90 seconds, she clearly needs no instruction about what gets me off.

Cameron wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Summary Cameron. Summary. I'm not reading or watching that without context.

You'll get there. Always start out like you're presenting to the executive. They don't have time for your bullshit. Grab them with the key points then beat them down with details later.

What I'm getting at is no one is going to look at this. Maybe x will. But otherwise your message will go unheard. If no one watches this video or reads the whole link, then there was no point. You gotta grab them, bring them in for a reason, then prove your point.

For another analogy... you just bought a whore, then in the first 90 seconds jizzed in her face and you're expecting her to know what gets you off. That's ridiculous.

Fine.

TL;DR - Liberal college institutes day in which white people are banned from campus. Professor objects, students get hysterical and engage in intimidation, while the administration orders campus police not to guarantee the safety of the professor.

Oh okay, so I really don't give a shit. Cool. If this were all presented up front I never would have posted.

I will however take objection to your point about my last analogy. Dude, if you blew your load in her mouth in 90 seconds what does she know about you? Nothing. You like your dick in mouths. Yeah no shit everyone does. She doesn't know if you were thinking she's your step mom, or if she was a random drug addict off the street, or if you were imagining she was a dogs asshole. She knows nothing about you other than it only took 90 seconds. I guess she could surmise you really just like whores, but that's so boring.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Cameron wrote:

Fine.

TL;DR - Liberal college institutes day in which white people are banned from campus. Professor objects, students get hysterical and engage in intimidation, while the administration orders campus police not to guarantee the safety of the professor.

Oh okay, so I really don't give a shit. Cool. If this were all presented up front I never would have posted.

I will however take objection to your point about my last analogy. Dude, if you blew your load in her mouth in 90 seconds what does she know about you? Nothing. You like your dick in mouths. Yeah no shit everyone does. She doesn't know if you were thinking she's your step mom, or if she was a random drug addict off the street, or if you were imagining she was a dogs asshole. She knows nothing about you other than it only took 90 seconds. I guess she could surmise you really just like whores, but that's so boring.

You analogy is still terrible. If I jizz in 90 seconds, why does she need more information about "why" I jizzed? What point does that serve? If she can make me jizz in 90 seconds, she clearly already knows enough about what gets me off. To map that analogy onto this thread, that would be like if I posted and you didn't have to read or watch because you already knew what I was talking about and agreed with me.

Are you projecting right now? Can you only cum if the dude jerking you off knows that you're imagining that he's your father or something? No judgment here, Travis, just be real.

Also, it's nice to know that you don't give a shit about free speech. Good to know where everyone stands on that.

Cameron wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Oh okay, so I really don't give a shit. Cool. If this were all presented up front I never would have posted.

I will however take objection to your point about my last analogy. Dude, if you blew your load in her mouth in 90 seconds what does she know about you? Nothing. You like your dick in mouths. Yeah no shit everyone does. She doesn't know if you were thinking she's your step mom, or if she was a random drug addict off the street, or if you were imagining she was a dogs asshole. She knows nothing about you other than it only took 90 seconds. I guess she could surmise you really just like whores, but that's so boring.

You analogy is still terrible. If I jizz in 90 seconds, why does she need more information about "why" I jizzed? What point does that serve? If she can make me jizz in 90 seconds, she clearly already knows enough about what gets me off. To map that analogy onto this thread, that would be like if I posted and you didn't have to read or watch because you already knew what I was talking about and agreed with me.

Are you projecting right now? Can you only cum if the dude jerking you off knows that you're imagining that he's your father or something? No judgment here, Travis, just be real.

Ah ah ah. No sir. Why is always the critical component. The whore in my analogy needs to know why. It's important. Did Jared Kuschner meet with the Russians because he was basically a treasonous spy? Or was he just a dipshit? Why. It's key. Did Trump fire comey because he was trying to disrupt the investigation or did he just not like the cut of Comey's jib? Why. It's key. Did the whore make you cum because she has the best mouth ever or because you were dreaming she was your uncle from middle school? Why.

So you see... the whore knows nothing until she has all the details.

Cameron wrote:Also, it's nice to know that you don't give a shit about free speech. Good to know where everyone stands on that.

Oh yeah your whole crusade about what happens at colleges is pretty meaningless to me. You see, not every issue matters to every person. Another thing you'll learn in time.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Cameron wrote:Also, it's nice to know that you don't give a shit about free speech. Good to know where everyone stands on that.

Oh yeah your whole crusade about what happens at colleges is pretty meaningless to me. You see, not every issue matters to every person. Another thing you'll learn in time.

And your analogies are only getting worse. You really suck at this.

Cameron wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Oh yeah your whole crusade about what happens at colleges is pretty meaningless to me. You see, not every issue matters to every person. Another thing you'll learn in time.

And your analogies are only getting worse. You really suck at this.

You're a college kid aren't you? Or close to it? Those kids will grow. Whatever it is they are doing now, they won't do in the future, despite what you're trying to project. Again, I still haven't read the article. It isn't important. You'd be shocked by the crazy shit I believed in college. I experimented with conservativism. A lot. It got weird. But I'm glad I did. I know how stupid I was at that age. Same thing with a lot of the people I grew up with.

I'm not thaaaaat much older than you. But, I know enough now to know that that shit is just a waste of time. It'll be fine. Just give them the time I was allowed in the pre smart phone era.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Cameron wrote:



And your analogies are only getting worse. You really suck at this.

You're a college kid aren't you? Or close to it? Those kids will grow. Whatever it is they are doing now, they won't do in the future, despite what you're trying to project. Again, I still haven't read the article. It isn't important. You'd be shocked by the crazy shit I believed in college. I experimented with conservativism. A lot. It got weird. But I'm glad I did. I know how stupid I was at that age. Same thing with a lot of the people I grew up with.

I'm not thaaaaat much older than you. But, I know enough now to know that that shit is just a waste of time. It'll be fine. Just give them the time I was allowed in the pre smart phone era.

It says my age right below my username/avatar. Since yours is also there, I think it's safe to presume that you're aware of the feature.

And if it were only college students believing this shit, that would be one thing. But they are enabled by professors (nominal adults), and they are able to use social media to enact real world consequences for their asinine bullshit. I'm not interested in waiting for them to grow out of it, because the next generation is coming right on their heels and learning from their example. I'd rather they be confronted with reality now than at some undefined point in the future.

Nah. You're over reaching and projecting. Don't lose your mind over what some 19 year old does. It isn't the real world. It's a waste. And the adult that enabled them.... do you know any college professors Cameron? They're kind of an odd folk. They're smart no doubt. Definitely super smart. But there was something missing. Something that prevented them from moving on into the real world. They stayed. And that's fine. Being a professor was their use. But don't overstate their influence. It isn't as much as you're implying in the long haul.

I bolded something in there because I think it's important. Don't overstate the importance of college campuses. We're on a college message board so it's easy to do. But don't. It's pretty close to you telling me the opinion of kids in high school. I mean, they're barely out of it, right? Who cares. They'll change. They always do. Really, by attacking it, the only thing you do is further entrench them in their cause. (See, Clinton, Hillary Re: deplorables comment.)

So, pretty much you're being Hillary. Good job. Just chill out about it and give them the space to learn how the world works.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Nah. You're over reaching and projecting. Don't lose your mind over what some 19 year old does. It isn't the real world.  It's a waste. And the adult that enabled them.... do you know any college professors Cameron? They're kind of an odd folk. They're smart no doubt. Definitely super smart. But there was something missing. Something that prevented them from moving on into the real world. They stayed. And that's fine. Being a professor was their use. But don't overstate their influence. It isn't as much as you're implying in the long haul.

I bolded something in there because I think it's important. Don't overstate the importance of college campuses. We're on a college message board so it's easy to do. But don't. It's pretty close to you telling me the opinion of kids in high school. I mean, they're barely out of it, right? Who cares. They'll change. They always do. Really, by attacking it, the only thing you do is further entrench them in their cause. (See, Clinton, Hillary Re: deplorables comment.)

So, pretty much you're being Hillary. Good job. Just chill out about it and give them the space to learn how the world works.

Considering how consistently awful your analogies are, I'm starting to wonder if you even know what an analogy is.

And restating your previous point does not make it more forceful. College is not the "real world," in many senses, but what happens at our universities most definitely has real world consequences. The most obvious of which is destroying our universities from the inside and devaluing higher education, which I would hope you would agree is a bad thing, even if you disagree that that's actually happening.

But I don't even know why I'm arguing with you about this. You've admitted repeatedly that you didn't read or watch anything I posted, so you are really just trolling me right now.

Cameron wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Nah. You're over reaching and projecting. Don't lose your mind over what some 19 year old does. It isn't the real world.  It's a waste. And the adult that enabled them.... do you know any college professors Cameron? They're kind of an odd folk. They're smart no doubt. Definitely super smart. But there was something missing. Something that prevented them from moving on into the real world. They stayed. And that's fine. Being a professor was their use. But don't overstate their influence. It isn't as much as you're implying in the long haul.

I bolded something in there because I think it's important. Don't overstate the importance of college campuses. We're on a college message board so it's easy to do. But don't. It's pretty close to you telling me the opinion of kids in high school. I mean, they're barely out of it, right? Who cares. They'll change. They always do. Really, by attacking it, the only thing you do is further entrench them in their cause. (See, Clinton, Hillary Re: deplorables comment.)

So, pretty much you're being Hillary. Good job. Just chill out about it and give them the space to learn how the world works.

Considering how consistently awful your analogies are, I'm starting to wonder if you even know what an analogy is.

And restating your previous point does not make it more forceful. College is not the "real world," in many senses, but what happens at our universities most definitely has real world consequences. The most obvious of which is destroying our universities from the inside and devaluing higher education, which I would hope you would agree is a bad thing, even if you disagree that that's actually happening.

But I don't even know why I'm arguing with you about this. You've admitted repeatedly that you didn't read or watch anything I posted, so you are really just trolling me right now.

I'm really not "trolling" (sometimes I wonder that word even means.)

But your bolded point above.... no, it really doesn't. It has made up, fictional consequences, but really, does any of this stuff actually matter? Or is it a bunch of kids just in the process of learning how the world works? Which policy was enacted or which place was bombed because of college kids in the modern era? (I'm granting you Vietnam because, well, not everything since vietnam is Vietnam. It wasn't Vietnam when I was in school there, it wasn't Vietnam when you were in school there and it isn't Vietnam now.)

Cameron wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Nah. You're over reaching and projecting. Don't lose your mind over what some 19 year old does. It isn't the real world.  It's a waste. And the adult that enabled them.... do you know any college professors Cameron? They're kind of an odd folk. They're smart no doubt. Definitely super smart. But there was something missing. Something that prevented them from moving on into the real world. They stayed. And that's fine. Being a professor was their use. But don't overstate their influence. It isn't as much as you're implying in the long haul.

I bolded something in there because I think it's important. Don't overstate the importance of college campuses. We're on a college message board so it's easy to do. But don't. It's pretty close to you telling me the opinion of kids in high school. I mean, they're barely out of it, right? Who cares. They'll change. They always do. Really, by attacking it, the only thing you do is further entrench them in their cause. (See, Clinton, Hillary Re: deplorables comment.)

So, pretty much you're being Hillary. Good job. Just chill out about it and give them the space to learn how the world works.

Considering how consistently awful your analogies are, I'm starting to wonder if you even know what an analogy is.

And restating your previous point does not make it more forceful. College is not the "real world," in many senses, but what happens at our universities most definitely has real world consequences. The most obvious of which is destroying our universities from the inside and devaluing higher education, which I would hope you would agree is a bad thing, even if you disagree that that's actually happening.

But I don't even know why I'm arguing with you about this. You've admitted repeatedly that you didn't read or watch anything I posted, so you are really just trolling me right now.

Holy shit this is so full of hyperbolic crap I can't begin to bold shit in it.

Guys like Nick Saban would kick you guys in the nuts. He watched four students get shot and killed at lunch one day. That was more than 40 years ago. Since then our universities have produced some of the worlds greatest doctors engineers scientists chemists social scientists ethicists novelist inventors and researchers. We've watched research institutes create unbelievable technology and toys and all things in between. I'm leaving in a minute to go to meldrums. I'm using my GPS which is on my hand held I'm writing on right now. I wonder if anyone thought our campuses were crumbling so badly when a national guardsmen put a bullet in a girls head in front of Saban that any of our advances would be possible?

But most of all, you insult the doctors, lawyers, teachers, engineers, novelists, artists and , social workers who are leaving our campuses with degrees every three months by saying our universities are crumbling from the inside. Those degrees individuals are brilliant, energetic, inventive and eager. Many have been inspired by professors and the universities they attended.

There will always be far left noise and voices on campuses. It's in the nature of youth. In some instances they can help end unjust wars in others they seem to be just silly and in some they make sane people pissed off. But they will always be there. And I personally hope they will never leave. It's pure Americana. For every safe space needed after the election there was 99% of the kids going to their orgo Chem class the next day. But writing that story isn't as attention whoring as a guy like joe Rogan needs to fire up his sycophantic roganites.

College campuses kick ass. A melting pot of geniuses artists drug attics artists hot women undersexed men and stupid music you'll ever find.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Cameron wrote:

Considering how consistently awful your analogies are, I'm starting to wonder if you even know what an analogy is.

And restating your previous point does not make it more forceful. College is not the "real world," in many senses, but what happens at our universities most definitely has real world consequences. The most obvious of which is destroying our universities from the inside and devaluing higher education, which I would hope you would agree is a bad thing, even if you disagree that that's actually happening.

But I don't even know why I'm arguing with you about this. You've admitted repeatedly that you didn't read or watch anything I posted, so you are really just trolling me right now.

I'm really not "trolling" (sometimes I wonder that word even means.)

But your bolded point above.... no, it really doesn't. It has made up, fictional consequences, but really, does any of this stuff actually matter? Or is it a bunch of kids just in the process of learning how the world works? Which policy was enacted or which place was bombed because of college kids in the modern era? (I'm granting you Vietnam because, well, not everything since vietnam is Vietnam. It wasn't Vietnam when I was in school there, it wasn't Vietnam when you were in school there and it isn't Vietnam now.)

RE trolling: You said yourself that if I had given my summary in the OP, you wouldn't have posted. You also said yourself that you didn't read or watch anything I linked. Yet here you still are arguing with me. Maybe that's not precisely trolling by many definitions, but I also wouldn't exactly call it good faith discussion.

RE consequences and whether or not this stuff "matters": Dwags is right that I was being hyperbolic with my "destroying universities from the inside" bit, so allow me to try again. SJWs have definitely succeeded in the past in getting people fired, and they're presently calling for Weinstein to be fired, and some even for the president of the university to be removed. Those are real consequences. Riots, people getting hit with bike locks, property damage, those are all real consequences too. Just because they don't affect you personally doesn't mean they're not real.

One guy getting fired isn't gravely important in isolation, but it is corrosive. Assuming this Weinstein guy is actually a good professor (which seems like a definite possibility), if they succeed in getting him fired, that deprives future students of the benefit of being taught by him. Good professors are as valuable as bad ones are harmful, and running good ones out of the system worsens the system.

As something of an aside, I'd note that very little of what we discuss here "matters" in any true sense. In my view, very little that human beings do ever really "matters," in any great sense. In a million years (nothing in the grand scheme of things), it's very likely that everything humanity has done up to this point will be lost to history and almost entirely forgotten. But that doesn't mean there's not an interesting conversation to be had.

DWags wrote:

Cameron wrote:

Considering how consistently awful your analogies are, I'm starting to wonder if you even know what an analogy is.

And restating your previous point does not make it more forceful. College is not the "real world," in many senses, but what happens at our universities most definitely has real world consequences. The most obvious of which is destroying our universities from the inside and devaluing higher education, which I would hope you would agree is a bad thing, even if you disagree that that's actually happening.

But I don't even know why I'm arguing with you about this. You've admitted repeatedly that you didn't read or watch anything I posted, so you are really just trolling me right now.

Holy shit this is so full of hyperbolic crap I can't  begin to bold shit in it.  

Guys like Nick Saban  would kick you guys in the nuts. He watched four students get shot and killed at lunch one day. That was more than 40 years ago. Since then our universities have produced some of the worlds greatest doctors engineers scientists chemists social scientists ethicists novelist inventors and researchers. We've watched research institutes create unbelievable technology and toys and all things in between. I'm leaving in a minute to go to meldrums. I'm using my GPS which is on my hand held I'm writing on right now. I wonder if anyone thought our campuses were crumbling so badly when a national guardsmen put a bullet in a girls head in front of Saban that any of our advances would be possible?

But most of all, you insult the doctors, lawyers, teachers, engineers, novelists, artists and , social workers who are leaving our campuses with degrees every three months by saying our universities are crumbling from the inside.  Those degrees individuals are brilliant, energetic, inventive and eager. Many have been inspired by professors and the universities they attended.

There will always be far left noise and voices on campuses. It's in the nature of youth. In some instances they can help end unjust wars in others they seem to be just silly and in some they make sane people pissed off.  But they will always be there. And I personally hope they will never leave. It's pure Americana. For every safe space needed after the election there was 99% of the kids going to their orgo Chem class the next day. But writing that story isn't as attention whoring as a guy like joe Rogan  needs to fire up his sycophantic roganites.  

College campuses kick ass. A melting pot of geniuses artists drug attics artists hot women undersexed men and stupid music you'll ever find.

Hi Dwags, thanks for stopping by. Safe to assume that the second you saw a Joe Rogan video in the OP, you decided not to read anything I linked and just assumed I was wrong, no?

You talk about all the good that comes from universities (as if I disagree with any of that) and say I'm insulting them. Horse shit. I care about this because I value higher education rather more than the average person. I agree that all kinds of good comes out of universities. It is precisely because of that that I care when I see universities becoming lesser in any way. So shove your sanctimony up your ass, please.

Cameron wrote:

DWags wrote:


Holy shit this is so full of hyperbolic crap I can't begin to bold shit in it.

Guys like Nick Saban would kick you guys in the nuts. He watched four students get shot and killed at lunch one day. That was more than 40 years ago. Since then our universities have produced some of the worlds greatest doctors engineers scientists chemists social scientists ethicists novelist inventors and researchers. We've watched research institutes create unbelievable technology and toys and all things in between. I'm leaving in a minute to go to meldrums. I'm using my GPS which is on my hand held I'm writing on right now. I wonder if anyone thought our campuses were crumbling so badly when a national guardsmen put a bullet in a girls head in front of Saban that any of our advances would be possible?

But most of all, you insult the doctors, lawyers, teachers, engineers, novelists, artists and , social workers who are leaving our campuses with degrees every three months by saying our universities are crumbling from the inside. Those degrees individuals are brilliant, energetic, inventive and eager. Many have been inspired by professors and the universities they attended.

There will always be far left noise and voices on campuses. It's in the nature of youth. In some instances they can help end unjust wars in others they seem to be just silly and in some they make sane people pissed off. But they will always be there. And I personally hope they will never leave. It's pure Americana. For every safe space needed after the election there was 99% of the kids going to their orgo Chem class the next day. But writing that story isn't as attention whoring as a guy like joe Rogan needs to fire up his sycophantic roganites.

College campuses kick ass. A melting pot of geniuses artists drug attics artists hot women undersexed men and stupid music you'll ever find.

Hi Dwags, thanks for stopping by. Safe to assume that the second you saw a Joe Rogan video in the OP, you decided not to read anything I linked and just assumed I was wrong, no?

You talk about all the good that comes from universities (as if I disagree with any of that) and say I'm insulting them. Horse shit. I care about this because I value higher education rather more than the average person. I agree that all kinds of good comes out of universities. It is precisely because of that that I care when I see universities becoming lesser in any way. So shove your sanctimony up your ass, please.

Tell me how much worse our campuses are now than the riots or burning of buildings or occupying administration buildings to the point the national guard had to be called or just shut the fuck up. Seriously, the sky isn't falling so you can shove it up your over reacting panic stricken ass.

Kids will be kids. It won't change. by the way, i did read the professors piece. I agree it's bullshit to tell a group to leave rather than your group leaving, but if you think I'd ever watch a minute of joe rogan, that's when your being your silliest.

DWags wrote:
Tell me how much worse our campuses are now than the riots or burning of buildings or occupying administration buildings to the point the national guard had to be called or just shut the fuck up. Seriously, the shy isn't falling so you can shove it up your over reacting panic stricken ass.

Kids will be kids. It won't change. by the way, i did read the professors piece. I agree it's bullshit to tell a group to leave rather than your group leaving, but if you think I'd ever watch a minute of joe rogan, that's when your being your silliest.

What were those riots about, dwags? Why were those administration buildings occupied? Those are rhetorical questions, we both know the answers. Those students were opposing something legitimately awful (war). Students today are doing similar things (albeit on a lesser scale), but they're doing it about microaggressions and people with whom they disagree being allowed to speak in public.

And, for the record, I shared the Rogan clip because he is actually talking to Bret Weinstein himself, and Bret explains the situation from his point of view. I don't expect you to watch it, but it's really rather uncontroversial. But if you want to let your biases cloud your judgment, that's your business.

I have a question Cam. Why are you choosing to focus on this tiny little liberal college in Washington as some indicator of a larger failing in progressivism? For the record, I agree the students are being irrational.

Is it possible that the fear the students are demonstrating with their irrational behavior is legitimate? While this tiny liberal college in Washington argues about safe spaces for nonwhites, there are nationalist white groups marching in the streets. Look up the Proud Boys and the Alt Knights. The white power movement is back with a vengeance.

Cameron wrote:

DWags wrote:
Tell me how much worse our campuses are now than the riots or burning of buildings or occupying administration buildings to the point the national guard had to be called or just shut the fuck up. Seriously, the shy isn't falling so you can shove it up your over reacting panic stricken ass.

Kids will be kids. It won't change. by the way, i did read the professors piece. I agree it's bullshit to tell a group to leave rather than your group leaving, but if you think I'd ever watch a minute of joe rogan, that's when your being your silliest.

What were those riots about, dwags? Why were those administration buildings occupied? Those are rhetorical questions, we both know the answers. Those students were opposing something legitimately awful (war). Students today are doing similar things (albeit on a lesser scale), but they're doing it about microaggressions and people with whom they disagree being allowed to speak in public.

And, for the record, I shared the Rogan clip because he is actually talking to Bret Weinstein himself, and Bret explains the situation from his point of view. I don't expect you to watch it, but it's really rather uncontroversial. But if you want to let your biases cloud your judgment, that's your business.

Are you saying campuses are worse now? I didn't pick it up. As someone who grew up in the first era and has a kid on a campus presently, I'm chuckling at the thought. Campus unrest was not just about Vietnam. Seriously, with MSU's history in recruiting African Americans you believe it was all about Vietnam? Heck I think at ol Miss in the 60's a riot killed one and I believe it was about or against H.U.A.C. and their investigation into communism hearings. When you're my age there will be campus unrest. It won't stop. Neither will the production of brilliant people on those campuses.

But your rant amuses me. Just tell me what you want to happen on campuses? Kids to be quiet? Summer down? Only protest American foreign policy? Fuck that. Let the shit happen, hope there isn't as much damage to buildings and killings as there was 50 years ago, and understand that you might agree with some, disagree with others and not give a shit about most.

So, what do you want campuses to do?

Rocinante wrote:I have a question Cam. Why are you choosing to focus on this tiny little liberal college in Washington as some indicator of a larger failing in progressivism?  For the record, I agree the students are being irrational.

Evergreen is in the headlines right now, but I do view it as part of a larger trend. It gets back to the Berkeley stuff and is, at bottom, a free speech issue. As a self-described liberal, I would prefer that other liberals and liberal institutions acted in a way that was protective of free speech, not hostile to it. I don't want to let conservatives become the side of free speech, but we're certainly giving them small openings to be just that.

Rocinante wrote:Is it possible that the fear the students are demonstrating with their irrational behavior is legitimate?  While this tiny liberal college in Washington argues about safe spaces for nonwhites, there are nationalist white groups marching in the streets. Look up the Proud Boys and the Alt Knights.  The white power movement is back with a vengeance.

I'm sure much of the fear is legitimate, I don't think this is performative. But it is certainly being wrongly directed. Weinstein is far from a white supremacist. Spending energy persecuting people like him comes with the opportunity cost of not spending that same energy opposing real racism. More to the point, it's just wrongheaded and benefits no one (with the possible exception of the anti-education crowd, I'm sure they fucking love shit like this).

Bill Maher casually used the N word last night in his interview with Senator Ben Sasse.

Lot of outrage on twitter from the left and sparking some interesting debate.

How much latitude do comedians have to go into controversial material and where's the line?

And I've seen some debate about weaponized outrage destroying peoples careers. It takes little effort or time anymore to ruin someones career.

Last debate, I've seen some on the left talking about the theme of this thread. The right sticks up for their own, the left will slit another lefties throat if he ever makes a mistake.

DWags wrote:

Cameron wrote:

What were those riots about, dwags? Why were those administration buildings occupied? Those are rhetorical questions, we both know the answers. Those students were opposing something legitimately awful (war). Students today are doing similar things (albeit on a lesser scale), but they're doing it about microaggressions and people with whom they disagree being allowed to speak in public.

And, for the record, I shared the Rogan clip because he is actually talking to Bret Weinstein himself, and Bret explains the situation from his point of view. I don't expect you to watch it, but it's really rather uncontroversial. But if you want to let your biases cloud your judgment, that's your business.

Are you saying campuses are worse now?  I didn't pick it up. As someone who grew up in the first era and has a kid on a campus presently, I'm chuckling at the thought.  Campus unrest was not just about Vietnam.  Seriously, with MSU's history in recruiting African Americans you believe it was all about Vietnam?  Heck I think at ol Miss in the 60's a riot killed one and I believe it was about or against H.U.A.C.  and their investigation into communism hearings.  When you're my age there will be campus unrest. It won't stop.  Neither will the production of brilliant people on those campuses.

But your rant amuses me.  Just tell me what you want to happen on campuses? Kids to be quiet? Summer down? Only protest American foreign policy?  Fuck that.  Let the shit happen, hope there isn't as much damage to buildings and killings as there was 50 years ago, and understand that you might agree with some, disagree with others and not give a shit about most.

So, what do you want campuses to do?  

I'm not saying they're worse now. I'm also not saying they're better. Whether they are better or worse in relation to their past is irrelevant when discussing whether or not they are as good as they could be.

I had Kent State in my mind when I said war, and you put it there. But you're right, there was other stuff. But my point remains, all of the other stuff was also legitimately terrible. Real racism. That's not true at Evergreen, not in the least. That was the point I was trying to make.

"So, what do you want campuses to do?" I want them to stop being complicit. I want them to stop enabling. I want them to lead the students, not be led by them. And I want them not to tell campus police to stand down and allow threats and intimidation push a professor off campus.

Cameron wrote:

Rocinante wrote:I have a question Cam. Why are you choosing to focus on this tiny little liberal college in Washington as some indicator of a larger failing in progressivism?  For the record, I agree the students are being irrational.

Evergreen is in the headlines right now, but I do view it as part of a larger trend. It gets back to the Berkeley stuff and is, at bottom, a free speech issue. As a self-described liberal, I would prefer that other liberals and liberal institutions acted in a way that was protective of free speech, not hostile to it. I don't want to let conservatives become the side of free speech, but we're certainly giving them small openings to be just that.

Rocinante wrote:Is it possible that the fear the students are demonstrating with their irrational behavior is legitimate?  While this tiny liberal college in Washington argues about safe spaces for nonwhites, there are nationalist white groups marching in the streets. Look up the Proud Boys and the Alt Knights.  The white power movement is back with a vengeance.

I'm sure much of the fear is legitimate, I don't think this is performative. But it is certainly being wrongly directed. Weinstein is far from a white supremacist. Spending energy persecuting people like him comes with the opportunity cost of not spending that same energy opposing real racism. More to the point, it's just wrongheaded and benefits no one (with the possible exception of the anti-education crowd, I'm sure they fucking love shit like this).

I view it as an outlier. The only trend it may be a part of is the one begun by the election of a man who tacitly endorsed white supremacy through inaction, dog whistles, and winks and nods.