And another Republican Senator taking on Trump

Flake not running for re-election...and letting Trump have it.

Where were these brave senators in the summer of 2016?

Sen. Flake, in a bombshell Senate-floor speech, 'Mr. President, I rise today to say: Enough.'

Full text of speech there.

like I say, this is all fine and dandy.. but we need to remember that for the past 18 months or so they have unabashedly defended and supported a racist, bigoted, admitted sexual predator.

so let's not start celebrating them too much..

Damn.

Eviscerated.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

like I say, this is all fine and dandy.. but we need to remember that for the past 18 months or so they have unabashedly defended and supported a racist, bigoted, admitted sexual predator.

so let's not start celebrating them too much..

I'm not sure Flake defended him.

NigelUno wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

like I say, this is all fine and dandy.. but we need to remember that for the past 18 months or so they have unabashedly defended and supported a racist, bigoted, admitted sexual predator.

so let's not start celebrating them too much..

I'm not sure Flake defended him.  

I don't have the data, but anecdotally I feel certain he not only voted for him back in November but also voted for/supported a lot of the sexual predator's agenda (attack on the ACA, etc).

Flake did not vote for Trump.

It's great to say all this, but when you're talking about standing up to Trump and not taking it any more and not kowtowing to him, all the while in a speech to announce that you're not seeking re-election, it rights kind of hollow. I know he's not leaving office for another 15 months, but it seems like this speech would be better served if he was saying that he was going to stay in office and fight against the President's bullshit.

Sounds like it may have been his first campaign speech of an independent presidential bid.

MiamiSpartan wrote:It's great to say all this, but when you're talking about standing up to Trump and not taking it any more and not kowtowing to him, all the while in a speech to announce that you're not seeking re-election, it rights kind of hollow. I know he's not leaving office for another 15 months, but it seems like this speech would be better served if he was saying that he was going to stay in office and fight against the President's bullshit.

Sounds like it may have been his first campaign speech of an independent presidential bid.

I agree. Flake leaving office is really just a win a for Trump and Bannon.

Corker and Flake (and McCain) will be around for awhile...impacting legislation, and (probably) still calling Trump a liar. It's a start. Whether any other Republicans speak up? We'll see.

NigelUno wrote:Flake did not vote for Trump.

okay, cool. He's a great American for that.

Voting to strip affordable healthcare away from millions of people, not so much.

MiamiSpartan wrote:It's great to say all this, but when you're talking about standing up to Trump and not taking it any more and not kowtowing to him, all the while in a speech to announce that you're not seeking re-election, it rights kind of hollow. I know he's not leaving office for another 15 months, but it seems like this speech would be better served if he was saying that he was going to stay in office and fight against the President's bullshit.

Sounds like it may have been his first campaign speech of an independent presidential bid.

yep. They're still afraid of the sexual predator and the mainstream media.

steveschneider wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:It's great to say all this, but when you're talking about standing up to Trump and not taking it any more and not kowtowing to him, all the while in a speech to announce that you're not seeking re-election, it rights kind of hollow. I know he's not leaving office for another 15 months, but it seems like this speech would be better served if he was saying that he was going to stay in office and fight against the President's bullshit.

Sounds like it may have been his first campaign speech of an independent presidential bid.

I agree. Flake leaving office is really just a win a for Trump and Bannon.

Makes you wonder if he is leaving because A) he knows he is going to be challenged in the R primary, and B) figures he stands a good chance of losing in the R primary.

Turtleneck wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

I agree. Flake leaving office is really just a win a for Trump and Bannon.

Makes you wonder if he is leaving because A) he knows he is going to be challenged in the R primary, and B) figures he stands a good chance of losing in the R primary.

I mean he basically said as much Turtleneck so I’m not so sure that it “makes you wonder.”

Tighten up.

NigelUno wrote:Corker and Flake (and McCain) will be around for awhile...impacting legislation, and (probably) still calling Trump a liar. It's a start. Whether any other Republicans speak up? We'll see.

But the fact that he's leaving doesn't help inspire other Republicans to speak up. They're probably thinking, "Yeah, Flake, it's easy for you to say that we should stand on principle and risk our careers, when you're giving up your seat either way."

But hopefully this makes things more difficult to get passed for the next year until the midterms. The midterms will should be a referendum on Trump, so we'll see how that plays out. I'm always in favor of Congress being controlled by the opposite party to the President, but more so with Trump in office than ever before.

#VoteGridlock

MiamiSpartan wrote:

NigelUno wrote:Corker and Flake (and McCain) will be around for awhile...impacting legislation, and (probably) still calling Trump a liar. It's a start. Whether any other Republicans speak up? We'll see.

But the fact that he's leaving doesn't help inspire other Republicans to speak up. They're probably thinking, "Yeah, Flake, it's easy for you to say that we should stand on principle and risk our careers, when you're giving up your seat either way."

But hopefully this makes things more difficult to get passed for the next year until the midterms. The midterms will should be a referendum on Trump, so we'll see how that plays out. I'm always in favor of Congress being controlled by the opposite party to the President, but more so with Trump in office than ever before.

#VoteGridlock

Man I pushed that hashtag pretty hard a year ago.

Actually to be honest I probably just assumed like everyone else that Hillary was going to win and didn’t push it hard enough. Every single person that said “I hate them both” needed to be shown that the smartest choice they could make was vote Hillary then. I think they more than not went to Trump. Lesson noted.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:

Makes you wonder if he is leaving because A) he knows he is going to be challenged in the R primary, and B) figures he stands a good chance of losing in the R primary.

I mean he basically said as much Turtleneck so I’m not so sure that it “makes you wonder.”

Tighten up.

Imagine dragons syndrome Travis. Imagine Dragons.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

NigelUno wrote:Corker and Flake (and McCain) will be around for awhile...impacting legislation, and (probably) still calling Trump a liar. It's a start. Whether any other Republicans speak up? We'll see.

But the fact that he's leaving doesn't help inspire other Republicans to speak up. They're probably thinking, "Yeah, Flake, it's easy for you to say that we should stand on principle and risk our careers, when you're giving up your seat either way."

But hopefully this makes things more difficult to get passed for the next year until the midterms. The midterms will should be a referendum on Trump, so we'll see how that plays out. I'm always in favor of Congress being controlled by the opposite party to the President, but more so with Trump in office than ever before.

#VoteGridlock

I think McCain and Corker emboldened Flake. If Trump can't get legislation passed, some more Republicans might abandon him in an effort to save themselves. Whether that results in more Dems getting elected, or hurts Trump's bid in 2020 remains to be seen.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:

Makes you wonder if he is leaving because A) he knows he is going to be challenged in the R primary, and B) figures he stands a good chance of losing in the R primary.

I mean he basically said as much Turtleneck so I’m not so sure that it “makes you wonder.”

Tighten up.

Where exactly does he say that, Travis?

Edit: You're probably refering to this passage, right?

Let me begin by noting a somewhat obvious point that these offices that we hold are not ours to hold indefinitely.  We are not here simply to mark time. Sustained incumbency is certainly not the point of seeking office. And there are times when we must risk our careers in favor of our principles.

If Flake really wanted to risk his career, he would fight Trump while taking his chances in the primary. Can he really impact Trump out of the Senate like he could from within the Senate? You can certainly make the case that being in the Senate gives him greater, or at least more meaningful, opportunities to resist Trump. I do not think he is telling us that he is quitting because he cannot stomach the idea of losing in the primary, which is the point I was making.

kingstonlake wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

I mean he basically said as much Turtleneck so I’m not so sure that it “makes you wonder.”

Tighten up.

Imagine dragons syndrome Travis. Imagine Dragons.

Says the guy in a Nascar fantasy league. Are you friends with PRob? He is really into the cars going in circles, too.

The Chairman of the Senate's Committee on Foreign Relations (a Republican) just basically (and publicly) called The President of the US (a Republican) a liar.

I think when they close the doors and have meetings, that carries some weight.

Turtleneck wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

I mean he basically said as much Turtleneck so I’m not so sure that it “makes you wonder.”

Tighten up.

Where exactly does he say that, Travis?

Edit: You're probably refering to this passage, right?

Let me begin by noting a somewhat obvious point that these offices that we hold are not ours to hold indefinitely.  We are not here simply to mark time. Sustained incumbency is certainly not the point of seeking office. And there are times when we must risk our careers in favor of our principles.

If Flake really wanted to risk his career, he would fight Trump while taking his chances in the primary. Can he really impact Trump out of the Senate like he could from within the Senate? You can certainly make the case that being in the Senate gives him greater, or at least more meaningful, opportunities to resist Trump. I do not think he is telling us that he is quitting because he cannot stomach the idea of losing in the primary, which is the point I was making.

In your defense I’m not sure if it was in the speech or a separate interview. But I saw somewhere where he said “I can’t win running the kind of campaign I’d be proud of.... I’d have to 100% unequivocally support the president and I don’t want to do that.”

I’m not going to make a judgment on what flake does regarding Trump just yet. We’ll see. He also said he’d be against the healthcare bill until he twisted himself into being for it. I’ll pass judgment on him in 12 months (if any of us even remember this shit by then lol we won’t.)

Seems like the majority of Americans agree.

Majorities in new poll see Trump as reckless, not honest

Floyd Robertson wrote:Seems like the majority of Americans agree.

Majorities in new poll see Trump as reckless, not honest

they misspelled "liar" in their headline but that's the mainstream media for you.

NigelUno wrote:Flake not running for re-election...and letting Trump have it.

Sherrif Joe is considering running in Arizona and Steve Bannon is backing his potential bid.

steveschneider wrote:

NigelUno wrote:Flake not running for re-election...and letting Trump have it.

Sherrif Joe is considering running in Arizona and Steve Bannon is backing his potential bid.

republicans supporting a racist and convicted felon?

I don't believe it..

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Sherrif Joe is considering running in Arizona and Steve Bannon is backing his potential bid.

republicans supporting a racist and convicted felon?

I don't believe it..

I think this was part of Flake's point...the Republican party is getting further and further away from the center. While he might not be the guy to (essentially) lead the charge against it (or succeed in winning in his state), he's contributing to the initial dialogue that this is a problem (for his party...and for AMERICA!!! Cue the music...).

NigelUno wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote: republicans supporting a racist and convicted felon?

I don't believe it..

I think this was part of Flake's point...the Republican party is getting further and further away from the center. While he might not be the guy to (essentially) lead the charge against it (or succeed in winning in his state), he's contributing to the initial dialogue that this is a problem (for his party...and for AMERICA!!! Cue the music...).

it'll be fun to watch the knuckle-draggers try to out mouth-breathe each other in support for one of their own.

Republicans don't care about the country. I'd like one to come here and defend what they think they are saving, but to me it is all just about fucking over 'liberals'.

Edit - Here is the real issue. Republicans were told that Obama was the worst President ever. They were told over and over again that liberal policies don't work, and are only theories made up by liberal professors at liberal Universities. They were told that their (republican) policies don't work and are bad for the country. Meanwhile, they were probably losing their jobs and what they were getting back weren't the high paying jobs with great benefits that they might have had before. For this they blamed unions. The base has become angry, because they saw that they were losing power, but didn't want to change anything, they just want everything to go back to how it was before. Along comes Trump and tells the base everything they want to hear, the others don't respect the flag, they don't respect hard work, they don't respect you as a person, but I do. I respect what you've done, I'm rich and the only way to be rich is because you worked hard at it. IMO, the republican party is the empire now.
I'm rambling and losing my point and the guy two cubicles over is trying to sing softly, but I still hear him singing and its annoying as fuck.

This seems like a win for Trump to me. Flake is one of Trump's biggest opponents in the Senate. Now he's quitting and opening the door for a Trump slappy to take his place. The GOP is taking a turn for the much worse.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:This seems like a win for Trump to me. Flake is one of Trump's biggest opponents in the Senate. Now he's quitting and opening the door for a Trump slappy to take his place. The GOP is taking a turn for the much worse.

Bannon is definitely trying to turn the crazy up. The messaging is going more towards Trump/Clark/Ingraham/Bannon/Miller and less McConnel/Ryan/Flake. Bannon isn’t even worried about the left he’s just trying to unseat the less enthusiastic memebers of his party.

InTenSity wrote:Republicans don't care about the country. I'd like one to come here and defend what they think they are saving, but to me it is all just about fucking over 'liberals'.

Edit - Here is the real issue. Republicans were told that Obama was the worst President ever. They were told over and over again that liberal policies don't work, and are only theories made up by liberal professors at liberal Universities. They were told that their (republican) policies don't work and are bad for the country. Meanwhile, they were probably losing their jobs and what they were getting back weren't the high paying jobs with great benefits that they might have had before. For this they blamed unions. The base has become angry, because they saw that they were losing power, but didn't want to change anything, they just want everything to go back to how it was before. Along comes Trump and tells the base everything they want to hear, the others don't respect the flag, they don't respect hard work, they don't respect you as a person, but I do. I respect what you've done, I'm rich and the only way to be rich is because you worked hard at it. IMO, the republican party is the empire now.
I'm rambling and losing my point and the guy two cubicles over is trying to sing softly, but I still hear him singing and its annoying as fuck.

I have an extra pair of ear buds if you would like them

InTenSity wrote:Republicans don't care about the country. I'd like one to come here and defend what they think they are saving, but to me it is all just about fucking over 'liberals'.

Edit - Here is the real issue. Republicans were told that Obama was the worst President ever. They were told over and over again that liberal policies don't work, and are only theories made up by liberal professors at liberal Universities. They were told that their (republican) policies don't work and are bad for the country. Meanwhile, they were probably losing their jobs and what they were getting back weren't the high paying jobs with great benefits that they might have had before. For this they blamed unions. The base has become angry, because they saw that they were losing power, but didn't want to change anything, they just want everything to go back to how it was before. Along comes Trump and tells the base everything they want to hear, the others don't respect the flag, they don't respect hard work, they don't respect you as a person, but I do. I respect what you've done, I'm rich and the only way to be rich is because you worked hard at it. IMO, the republican party is the empire now.
I'm rambling and losing my point and the guy two cubicles over is trying to sing softly, but I still hear him singing and its annoying as fuck.

yep - nobody has ever accused the average republican for being overly bright and informed.

Jeff Flake asked us to fight for our country. Then he quit.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/10/25/jeff-flake-asked-americans-to-fight-for-their-country-then-he-quit/?utm_term=.1320067b70b4

Yes, Flake was one of the few Republican senators who declined to endorse Trump’s candidacy. And yes, his words were powerful and needed to be spoken by a member of the president’s own party. That’s why some were quick to suggest, quite optimistically, that the speech could represent “a notable marker in the decline of the GOP” that will “end up in the history books.” But in declaring, “I will not be complicit or silent,” on the way to announcing that he will not seek reelection, Flake confused abdication with absolution. Cincinnatus returning to the farm, Flake is not. In the end, he’s a profile in cowardice.

Accurate though Flake’s political diagnosis might be, it can hardly be taken seriously as a form of public service when paired with his abandonment of the very power to do something about it. That merely makes him part of a growing problem: politicians who want us to believe that they are powerless, being pulled by forces beyond their control. Sadly, it’s one thing Flake and Trump actually have in common.

Turtleneck wrote:Jeff Flake asked us to fight for our country. Then he quit.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/10/25/jeff-flake-asked-americans-to-fight-for-their-country-then-he-quit/?utm_term=.1320067b70b4

Yes, Flake was one of the few Republican senators who declined to endorse Trump’s candidacy. And yes, his words were powerful and needed to be spoken by a member of the president’s own party. That’s why some were quick to suggest, quite optimistically, that the speech could represent “a notable marker in the decline of the GOP” that will “end up in the history books.” But in declaring, “I will not be complicit or silent,” on the way to announcing that he will not seek reelection, Flake confused abdication with absolution. Cincinnatus returning to the farm, Flake is not. In the end, he’s a profile in cowardice.

Accurate though Flake’s political diagnosis might be, it can hardly be taken seriously as a form of public service when paired with his abandonment of the very power to do something about it. That merely makes him part of a growing problem: politicians who want us to believe that they are powerless, being pulled by forces beyond their control. Sadly, it’s one thing Flake and Trump actually have in common.

Did he quit effective immediately? Or is he going to hang around and use his power?

NigelUno wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:Jeff Flake asked us to fight for our country. Then he quit.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/10/25/jeff-flake-asked-americans-to-fight-for-their-country-then-he-quit/?utm_term=.1320067b70b4

Did he quit effective immediately? Or is he going to hang around and use his power?

He is going to hang around and not use his senatorial powers.