Paul Ryan is the point man on the new tax plan

All those developers, GC's and contractors voted for Trump and now the new budget allegedly puts caps on home mortgage and property tax deductions.

Of course the richest among us will do some financial engineering to have one of their businesses own and take deductions and pay a lease to themselves.

Don’t underestimate Paul Ryan on this one. Getting more money for rich people is literally the only thing he’s ever cared about.

From what I understand , this hurts the middle class more (I know, typical republican policies). Middle class losses child exemption, state and local tax deduction, and mortgage interest. While corporations get 15% deduction and the top tier 5% deduction.

Im fucked.

Dendrobates wrote:From what I understand , this hurts the middle class more (I know, typical republican policies). Middle class losses child exemption, state and local tax deduction, and mortgage interest. While corporations get 15% deduction and the top tier 5% deduction.

Im fucked.

Don’t forget the student loan interest deduction as well!

I think the mortgage interest deduction would still exist up to a cap but I haven’t really read up too much just yet.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Dendrobates wrote:From what I understand , this hurts the middle class more (I know, typical republican policies). Middle class losses child exemption, state and local tax deduction, and mortgage interest. While corporations get 15% deduction and the top tier 5% deduction.

Im fucked.

Don’t forget the student loan interest deduction as well!

I think the mortgage interest deduction would still exist up to a cap but I haven’t really read up too much just yet.

That hurts me too. While I pay about $15k in interest a year, $2500 max deduction was better than nothing. This one seems minimal to the overall population, so it doesn't make much sense.

I get we need tax cuts. But trickle down doesn't work. They keep most of the money themselves. And it won't be bringing jobs back to the US.

Dendrobates wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Don’t forget the student loan interest deduction as well!

I think the mortgage interest deduction would still exist up to a cap but I haven’t really read up too much just yet.

That hurts me too. While I pay about $15k in interest a year, $2500 max deduction was better than nothing. This one seems minimal to the overall population, so it doesn't make much sense.

I get we need tax cuts. But trickle down doesn't work. They keep most of the money themselves. And it won't be bringing jobs back to the US.

We don't need tax cuts. They need to cut military spending. I'm also not sure if I'll be able to afford the house we're in without the tax breaks. I mean we can, but won't be able to afford much else. So fuck us helping the economy.

Nothing to worry about if you are in Red state.

The proposed tax plan a a direct kick in the groin to MA, NY, IL and CA.

If Trump says anything is the biggest or best you know he's just slipping into huckster mode like all his building projects are the biggest and best until construction starts.

Trump's plan eliminates the estate tax which applies to individuals after the first $5.45M or couples $10.9M
Connies, save your small business and farmer stories. Unless they have their heads up their asses an accountant can make damned sure the bulk of estates for those even close will have living trusts in place to avoid the estate tax.

Trump's plan eliminates the Alternative minimum tax which Congress, even those with GOP majorities have not touched for decades because its a cash cow. The AMT was started in 1968 to eliminate high income Americans from using deductions to avoid taxes but no one ever wanted it adjusted for inflation so a lot of folks who weren't the target in 1968 are paying it in 2016 and earlier.

Trumps plan doubles the individual deduction.

But here is deductions tax payers lose in this plan. Student loan interest, deduction of student grants for minor college age children, Medical expense deductions, state and local tax (like individuals lost the credit card/personal loan deduction in 1986) and limits mortgage deduction

This is a big gift to Trump and his fellow billionaires

First off, I'm not Goose.  I fucking can't stand Trump.  Hope he gets thrown out of office.

Now, having said that, I'm willing to wait to see what comes out of the Senate before I totally trash, as others have already, this tax plan.

The goal is not only lower taxes for many, it's also to simplify it also.  The caveat that I'm willing to wait before judging is that the Standard Deduction is now doubled.  I'm at the stage in life where  the only write off, beyond the Standard Deduction, is the contributions to my wife's 401(k), which is where we get our tax bill to essentially break even (a small refund) by maxing out our contributions.

The Repubs threw up a trail balloon about limiting the deductions on retirement plans and at first I was about explode.  Then I realized that doubling the SD might offset losing the retirement contributions deductions and then some.  Plus we'd still be able to sock away the money as we have been, then take it tax-free later on when we need it, like a Roth.  That's a trade off I might very well take or at least not just throw up my arms and bitch to the moon about.

I am one of those people that would have to file a postcard for our tax returns.  And our tax return would be at worse the same as it is now, maybe even better in the long run because I'd have a source of income later that would be exempt from taxes..

Now I know everybody's situation is different than mine, but in exchange for all these deductions you get a much larger SD is not entirely a bad idea if for no other reason to simplify your returns.  I don't even care if it's 'revenue neutral' and I don't even get a tax cut.  If it makes tax time a 5 minute job to fill out a postcard without worrying about whether something is deductible or not is at least an idea that's worth looking at.

The other thing that pisses me off about this tax debate is I've heard a number of Dems (in particular Steny Hoyer from MD) bitching about how this a tax break for only the richest of Corporations.

But when these Dems were asked if they agreed that Corporations are taxed too much, they agreed and said we should lower Corporate taxes. but then don't answer on what they should be taxed at.  Jesus Fucking Christ, if you're going to bitch, then FUCKING HAVE A SOLUTION.  I don't hear any.  All I hear is that 'it's a tax break for the billionaires' repeated over and over and over and over again.

GRR Spartan wrote:Nothing to worry about if you are in Red state.

The proposed tax plan a a direct kick in the groin to MA, NY, IL and CA.

If Trump says anything is the biggest or best you know he's just slipping into huckster mode like all his building projects are the biggest and best until construction starts.

Trump's plan eliminates the estate tax which applies to individuals after the first $5.45M or couples $10.9M
Connies, save your small business and farmer stories. Unless they have their heads up their asses an accountant can make damned sure the bulk of estates for those even close will have living trusts in place to avoid the estate tax.

Trump's plan eliminates the Alternative minimum tax which Congress, even those with GOP majorities have not touched for decades because its a cash cow. The AMT was started in 1968 to eliminate high income Americans from using deductions to avoid taxes but no one ever wanted it adjusted for inflation so a lot of folks who weren't the target in 1968 are paying it in 2016 and earlier.

Trumps plan doubles the individual deduction.

But here is deductions tax payers lose in this plan. Student loan interest, deduction of student grants for minor college age children, Medical expense deductions, state and local tax (like individuals lost the credit card/personal loan deduction in 1986) and limits mortgage deduction

This is a big gift to Trump and his fellow billionaires

Other than eliminating the estate tax (which affects so few people so I don't give a shit about it one way or the other - it's a red herring), why is this a big gift to Trump's billionaires buddies?

I don't think simplifying tax returns is such a bad idea. Could it use some tweaking? Sure, every idea needs to be questioned and scrutinized. But everyone posting on here just seems to dismiss it out of hand before we even know the final outcome. This attempt at simplification of the tax codes, at least in concept, is something I'm willing to at least listen to before dismissing out of hand.

There are so many entities that have a vested interest in the current system, you get bitching no matter what anyone proposes. On top of that these politicians on both sides just posture themselves to look good to their base and are FAR more interested in being re-elected than they are in solving problems or simplifying anything regarding the Government. Fuck 'em.

Frank Ricard wrote:The other thing that pisses me off about this tax debate is I've heard a number of Dems (in particular Steny Hoyer from MD) bitching about how this a tax break for only the richest of Corporations.

But when these Dems were asked if they agreed that Corporations are taxed too much, they agreed and said we should lower Corporate taxes. but then don't answer on what they should be taxed at.  Jesus Fucking Christ, if you're going to bitch, then FUCKING HAVE A SOLUTION.  I don't hear any.  All I hear is that 'it's a tax break for the billionaires' repeated over and over and over and over again.

Lol frank if the republicans taught you anything in the last 8 years it’s that repeating the same thing over and over again without actually having a solution is quite effective.

But I think you need to tune in with the fact that the money does indeed have to come from somewhere. Comments like “the estate tax but it effects so few people that I don’t care” well you should. This is coating $1.5 trillion and that’s all part of it.

Anyway. I saw something yesterday that said that this tax plan would create 1 million jobs. Sounds great until you think about it. $1.5 trillion would pay two million people $75k a year for 10 years to do literally nothing. So 1 million jobs is a gigantic joke.

Also I don’t really give a shit about simplifying tax returns. I definitely don’t give a shit about it for $1.5 trillion. How many accountant fees would that pay for?

Anyway. In all of those posts you didn’t mention how much all of this is costing. So let me reiterate. $1.5 trillion.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Frank Ricard wrote:The other thing that pisses me off about this tax debate is I've heard a number of Dems (in particular Steny Hoyer from MD) bitching about how this a tax break for only the richest of Corporations.

But when these Dems were asked if they agreed that Corporations are taxed too much, they agreed and said we should lower Corporate taxes. but then don't answer on what they should be taxed at.  Jesus Fucking Christ, if you're going to bitch, then FUCKING HAVE A SOLUTION.  I don't hear any.  All I hear is that 'it's a tax break for the billionaires' repeated over and over and over and over again.

Lol frank if the republicans taught you anything in the last 8 years it’s that repeating the same thing over and over again without actually having a solution is quite effective.

But I think you need to tune in with the fact that the money does indeed have to come from somewhere. Comments like “the estate tax but it effects so few people that I don’t care” well you should. This is coating $1.5 trillion and that’s all part of it.

Anyway. I saw something yesterday that said that this tax plan would create 1 million jobs. Sounds great until you think about it. $1.5 trillion would pay two million people $75k a year for 10 years to do literally nothing. So 1 million jobs is a gigantic joke.

Also I don’t really give a shit about simplifying tax returns. I definitely don’t give a shit about it for $1.5 trillion. How many accountant fees would that pay for?

Anyway. In all of those posts you didn’t mention how much all of this is costing. So let me reiterate. $1.5 trillion.

You're absolutely right.  I didn't mention the 1.5 trillion specifically, except you missed the part where I did say I don't care if it's "revenue neutral" i.e. I don't care if they cut taxes - just simplifying the system is a step in the right direction imo.

The Senate is going to have to make changes to this bill and that means getting this plan some more revenues in.  To what extent, we'll see.  From what I've heard on the news, the 'pubs don't have the votes to pass this as is in the Senate because of the concerns of the deficit.

It also seems to me that watching these politicians over the years, the deficit only matters when your party isn't the one in power.

The 'pubs bitched and bitched over spending when Clinton was in office, then when Bush was elected, all of a sudden there was spending for everything, including starting wars, so it was the Dems bitching about deficit spending. Then when Obama was elected, the Tea Party deficit hawks took a prominent role in the Republican party and won many seats.  Now that bozo the clown is in office, the Tea Party wing still bitched about spending more than the revenues brought in, but eventually it caved and it's the 'dems turn to bitch about deficit spending again.

You might not care if the tax codes are simplified.  That's fine.  You and me might not agree on that.  I think it's an idea to look at and it might actually help bring in more tax dollars because everyone and every corporation won't be scouring the books looking for every tax loophole.  At least for the Individual side of tax returns a higher SD in exchange for not having as many write offs MIGHT be an idea worth pursuing.

On the Corporate side of things, even Dems have come out in favoring of lowering the rates in exchange of closing loopholes and therefore simplifying the tax codes.  Sounds good to me.

EDIT:  Your comment on learning from 'pubs about their repeating the same thing over and over the past 8 years is spot on.  They're assholes.  Problem is, I don't like the Dems either, but I'll probably vote for them next time to counter the bozo we have in the oval office in case he doesn't get impeached.