New Tax Bills

Nothing in tBin on the new tax bills, eh?  My business partner found a Face-ta-gram post that had him all so I looked into it today. Shocker that the post was filled with half-truths.

Anyway, I found this one that sums things up pretty good. Thought some of you might be interested.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonynitti/2017/11/02/breaking-down-the-house-tax-bill-whats-in-and-whats-out/#32e8459a63c9

I think there have been a couple of posts about it already.

It's a giant handout to corporations and the mega-rich that will expand the annual deficit and total national debt. No surprise there.

I haven't sat down with our Accounting firm that taks care of our payroll and taxes because they always charge us for hours. But over the phone, it seems to me that the lady who is assigned to our account isn't quite sure how our business will be affected. My personal accountant tells my wife, who he's friends with that he thinks it wont' be a major difference, either way.

I really don't know, but I'm guessing in 13 months there will be some clarity on all of this. I trust the accounting firm and my personal accountant to set us straight, and I have no issue with them not being able to specifically tell us exactly how it will effect us. I will if they can't next March, but it's too early to get crazy about anything it seems.

Brian Riedl

@Brian_Riedl
TPC conference report:

Bottom 80% currently pays 33% of all federal income taxes, but gets 35% of the tax cuts.

Top 1% currently pays 27% of all federal taxes, but gets 21% of the tax cuts.

So the share of all federal taxes paid by wealthy will rise.http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/distributional-analysis-conference-agreement-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act …

Lol I can play with percentages too to make them sound friendly. Hell at times it’s literally my job. Come on man.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:Brian Riedl

@Brian_Riedl
TPC conference report:

Bottom 80% currently pays 33% of all federal income taxes, but gets 35% of the tax cuts.

Top 1% currently pays 27% of all federal taxes, but gets 21% of the tax cuts.

So the share of all federal taxes paid by wealthy will rise.http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/distributional-analysis-conference-agreement-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act …

you're more trusting of the government than I am.

Except he’s from the Manhattan institute think tank. Neo-cons. I wouldn’t trust one number or sentence out of it.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Lol I can play with percentages too to make them sound friendly. Hell at times it’s literally my job. Come on man.

If I am looking at the right report, I am not sure that statement is entirely consistent with the data presented.

Turtleneck wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Lol I can play with percentages too to make them sound friendly. Hell at times it’s literally my job. Come on man.

If I am looking at the right report, I am not sure that statement is entirely consistent with the data presented.

Well I’m sure it isn’t. But even if we actually used true numbers I’m sure I could mash them together to make them sound somehow relatively pleasant for people that don’t make a couple million a year. They would actually be ridiculous, but they’d sound nice.

But whatever. It’ll pass and that’s fine. It’s the only thing congressional republicans have ever actually wanted. (Note, as I regularly try to note for goose, they never gave a fuck about the issues you vote on. And secretly you might even know that.) it makes no sense whatsoever to on one hand brag about how great corporations are doing in the current environment, something president big boy did again this morning, then give a massive corporate tax cut. But whatever. They’ll get it, it’ll be the only thing they accomplish, then as usual the grown ups will show up in a year or two to fix their mess. The trick is to make sure that Americans realize that voting for this nonsense needs to stop.

LooseGoose wrote:Brian Riedl

@Brian_Riedl
TPC conference report:

Bottom 80% currently pays 33% of all federal income taxes, but gets 35% of the tax cuts.

Top 1% currently pays 27% of all federal taxes, but gets 21% of the tax cuts.

So the share of all federal taxes paid by wealthy will rise.http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/distributional-analysis-conference-agreement-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act …

That's what happens with a progressive tax system.
Its as predictable as The War on Christmas myth for the folks who think we need to cut taxes when things are great and we need to cut them more when things are bad.

Those at the bottom are expected to take the money they don't pay in taxes then spend it on goods and services like food, housing, vehicles to get to work.

There are those who live in make believe world who want to think the approximately 900,000 at at the top who pay the highest rate create as much economic activity as the the 90M workers who don't pay taxes.

Building a $5M home doesn't create as many jobs as building twenty $200K homes.

Well, it's almost official as the Senate passed the bill.  House has to vote on it again because of some rules I don't get, but it doesn't matter as it's a done deal.

We've sat down and try to figure out if this thing helps us.  Turns out we get some more money back, which is better than a kick in the ass I guess.  What gets me is that supposedly there's 13 million people that won't have health insurance.  Also I was told that there's also a  health insurance program for dependents not covered by their parents' insurance plan that could get cut.

If those are the 2 insurance programs for people that really need coverage that are being cut just so I can have a few more bucks in my pocket when we're doing more than fine as it is, then I'd have no problem saying keep it.  They need it more than me.  The added amount won't change my life one iota.

I remember Reagan's tax cuts in the 80's.  Made more sense then - interest rates were through the roof, unemployment was much higher, tax brackets were much higher and we were in a recession.  Now the economy is great, we have full employment, and it just doesn't seem to make as much sense to do this if it means cutting some valuable programs for those that need it.

Also, I would be in favor of simplifying the tax code, even if it meant losing deductions. Apparently, this bill comes WAY short in simplifying anything. I heard some Dems saying they'd be for tax reform if it were revenue neutral. My first reaction is to say bullshit, because they'd be against ANY tax bill that the Repubs proposed (and vice versa) because we've never been so politically polarized in my lifetime. My second reaction is that they'll have their chance to change this in 3 more years when they'll control the WH, Senate and House again and they can ramrod their tax reform bills through budget reconciliation.

GOP is going to look at cuts or cost shifts of MedicarePartB to make it more expensive and this will impact a growing number of bomers who voted to drain the swamp.

Long term, if not changed, it’s a good bill to promote the coalescing of wealth to a relatively few. What we were taught was what this country’s early settlers and immigrants left Europe to escape.

Watch: Ted Cruz Gives Democrats One Of The Best Verbal Beat Downs Of The Year Over Their “No” Vote For Tax Cuts

“Why?” he asked. “Because they are so united in their rage at President Trump that they are willing to tell middle class voters in their states “we don’t care.””

Cruz went into the some of the things Democrats are voting no on, such as doubling the child tax credit.

For all the left’s ranting and railing about the plight of single mothers and their children, they suddenly feel it good to turn their backs on them because they don’t want the tax cuts. Cruz gave an example of a single mom with three kids having her tax credits doubled from $1,000 to $2,000, adding up to $6,000 in tax credits, adding that this is what the Democrats are saying no to.

“And every single Democrat in this body is going to say to the single mom “tough luck. We aren’t cutting your taxes,”” said Cruz.

As Cruz points out, this is sometimes parents with kids who have disabilities, and that’s who the Dems are saying no to.

“Let me tell you what’s most striking,” said Cruz. “A provision the Democrats are arguing to strike provides that parents with a child with disabilities can pay for educational therapy from a 5-29 plan that is from their own savings, that they put together, and the Democrats are saying to the parents of kids with disabilities “no you can’t.””

“Let me ask my friends on the Democratic side of the aisle,” said Cruz,” are you prepared to look in the eyes of a kid with disabilities and explain why you said “you are cut out?”

LooseGoose wrote:Watch: Ted Cruz Gives Democrats One Of The Best Verbal Beat Downs Of The Year Over Their “No” Vote For Tax Cuts

“Why?” he asked. “Because they are so united in their rage at President Trump that they are willing to tell middle class voters in their states “we don’t care.””

Cruz went into the some of the things Democrats are voting no on, such as doubling the child tax credit.

For all the left’s ranting and railing about the plight of single mothers and their children, they suddenly feel it good to turn their backs on them because they don’t want the tax cuts. Cruz gave an example of a single mom with three kids having her tax credits doubled from $1,000 to $2,000, adding up to $6,000 in tax credits, adding that this is what the Democrats are saying no to.

“And every single Democrat in this body is going to say to the single mom “tough luck. We aren’t cutting your taxes,”” said Cruz.

As Cruz points out, this is sometimes parents with kids who have disabilities, and that’s who the Dems are saying no to.

“Let me tell you what’s most striking,” said Cruz. “A provision the Democrats are arguing to strike provides that parents with a child with disabilities can pay for educational therapy from a 5-29 plan that is from their own savings, that they put together, and the Democrats are saying to the parents of kids with disabilities “no you can’t.””

“Let me ask my friends on the Democratic side of the aisle,” said Cruz,” are you prepared to look in the eyes of a kid with disabilities and explain why you said “you are cut out?”

First the messenger: Ted Cruz is the worst kind of coward. He has no values and no convictions. DT implicated his father in the Kennedy assassination and said his wife was ugly. This guy has absolutely no credibility. I hope he runs again just so we can rehash all the ways he sucks.

Now the message: People are not this dumb (well obviously some are). We see the big picture and furthermore the R's are not even trying to hide it. This is scraps from the master's table and even this little bread and circuses from the ultra-rich will come with a hefty pricetag in the form of entitlement "reform". They're coming for social security, medicare and medicaid.

I see how the R's think they have a winning message here, but let's not forget the stimulus to bring us out of the recession also gave a tax break to most Americans, and it never became something that people liked. We'll see.

Here's the talking points that the Republicans are going to go hard with over the up until the next election.  They are playing long game here, trying to minimize damage by holding on to the base and hoping that they can convince the center that chicken shit is chicken salad.

From the Washington Post

1) “Removes and eliminates many loopholes so special interests start paying their fair share.” LIE 2) “Levels the playing field for American businesses to better compete against foreign competition.” SPECULATION 3) “It’s estimated that more than one million jobs would be created over the next 10 years with higher wages for workers.” WILD SPECULATION 4) “Simplifies and reduces taxes for most Americans by doubling the standard deduction.”

Did Ted Cruz say anything about how the bill lets the Estate Tax ride off into the sunset?

Did Ted say anything about the millions of college students who will be dropped off their parent's policies and have to spend more for health coverage?

Any mention about the thousands of new HS and college grads going into the workforce where benefits aren't offered or those that are a the pre ACA jokes that cost money and cover nothing.

Did Ted hit the "new, better paying jobs" talking point based on the tried and true GOP myth that the tax cut for the top 10% will magically trickle down to better wages and benefits.

Did Ted say anything about the One Trillion dollar plus defict all these cuts will cost or commit to a spending freeze on say, defense for the next decade?

Probably not.

Lol what an epic beat down

Watching CNBC and they just had a clip of Nancy Pelosi holding a press conference on renewing CHIP - the Children's Health Insurance Program.

We can have a tax cut that doesn't have to be remotely paid for, but anything like a good program for uninsured children has to be funded.  If my tax cut means programs like this are cut, then I'm literally going to find a family that's affected by this bullshit and they can have my excess tax cut. I'll literally write them a check to help cover the costs of providing basic coverage for their children. This is bullshit.

Frank Ricard wrote:Watching CNBC and they just had a clip of Nancy Pelosi holding a press conference on renewing CHIP - the Children's Health Insurance Program.

We can have a tax cut that doesn't have to be remotely paid for, but anything like a good program for uninsured children has to be funded.  If my tax cut means programs like this are cut, then I'm literally going to find a family that's affected by this bullshit and they can have my excess tax cut. I'll literally write them a check to help cover the costs of providing basic coverage for their children. This is bullshit.

There's going to be a huge deficit and more programs will be cut. Medicare, social security, and who knows what else.

Last I checked students taking loans won't be able to write off the interest they paid any more. That sucks.

Frank Ricard wrote:Watching CNBC and they just had a clip of Nancy Pelosi holding a press conference on renewing CHIP - the Children's Health Insurance Program.

We can have a tax cut that doesn't have to be remotely paid for, but anything like a good program for uninsured children has to be funded.  If my tax cut means programs like this are cut, then I'm literally going to find a family that's affected by this bullshit and they can have my excess tax cut. I'll literally write them a check to help cover the costs of providing basic coverage for their children. This is bullshit.

I get the sentiment but I wonder if that money would be better spent trying to elect someone who cares about those children.

So what's the deal here, it seems based on a chart I was looking at earlier that I'm gonna get a tax break for the next few years and then that shit is going to reverse course somewhat severely?

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:So what's the deal here, it seems based on a chart I was looking at earlier that I'm gonna get a tax break for the next few years and then that shit is going to reverse course somewhat severely?

Pretty much. It really all depends where you are at, but any break you are in for isn't permanent at this point and your taxes could go up.

Also, even if we do save some money they are going to cut so many programs we could pay in other ways. I bet infrastructure rots as a result.

1. It is not at all surprising that Republican opposition to enlarging the deficit has vanished under a Republican president.

2. Per the report cited by LooseGoose, we will see sweeping tax cuts. The largest gains will go to the wealthiest, but most Americans should see an increase in after tax income (with those increases diminishing annually until the expiration of the cuts).



3. In combination with low unemployment, these sweeping tax cuts have potential to trigger a sharp rise in inflation. With more disposable income we can assume considerably more consumer spending. The subsequent inflation that results from spending will hurt low and middle income workers the most. When interest rates are raised to address inflation, borrowing becomes more expensive and creates potential for a range of problems. My guess is the safeguard is skewing the greatest gains of the tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans so that it does not result in consumer spending and inflation.

4. Overall, this seems reckless. In the short term it works, but what about the long term damage? I like how Republicans were claiming that no matter who won in 2016, the U.S. was headed toward another recession. Then the Trump economy maintained the growth that began under Obama, and the recession talk disappeared. Long term, these policies are good ingredients for a recession. If that happens, you will again hear how a recession was inevitable. The reality is that a recession is actually avoidable.

Turtleneck wrote:

2. Per the report cited by LooseGoose, we will see sweeping tax cuts. The largest gains will go to the wealthiest, but most Americans should see an increase in after tax income (with those increases diminishing annually until the expiration of the cuts).

This part is the cynic in me. The Republicans know that the tax cuts are unpopular, but people are going to get more $$. They set the cuts to expire in what 3-4 years? Which means that taxes are going to go back up right around the next election, which they are probably figuring dems are going to take back quite a bit in 2018. Now they have their fucking boogeyman, that they created, again. They can blame the dems for the increases to try to retain and gain seats back in 2020. They know their base is stupid enough to believe it all as well. American's have a short memory.

I don’t think that’s being a cynic intensity

Much has been made of the GOP’s willingness to expand the deficit in the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017. But that’s not the only once-cherished Republican tenet abandoned in the tax proposal and other recent GOP initiatives.

Here is another: The closer government is to the people, the better. Republicans have often praised the American system of federalism, which allows subnational units such as cities and states to give their residents the public policies they want — with results that vary throughout the nation. Traditional conservatives have praised this because state and local governments are “closer” to the citizens they serve.

This tax bill goes in the opposite direction. It is likely to make it harder for state and local governments to raise their own revenue.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/12/21/the-republican-tax-bill-will-make-it-harder-for-states-and-cities-to-pay-their-bills/?utm_term=.b2058b69f38a

Looks like they've been able to keep the CHIP program going till Feb. Of all the flaws in this plan, the thing that bothers me most is the 13 million losing their health insurance.

On a plus side, it looks like there's a few corporations giving a bonus to their employees. Tough not being a total cynic, but it's hard to say that's not a good thing.

Frank Ricard wrote:Looks like they've been able to keep the CHIP program going till Feb. Of all the flaws in this plan, the thing that bothers me most is the 13 million losing their health insurance.

On a plus side, it looks like there's a few corporations giving a bonus to their employees. Tough not being a total cynic, but it's hard to say that's not a good thing.

These corporations handing out bonuses had billions in profits this year, and the taxes they benefit from don't go into effect until the next tax year.

They were either going to give out these bonuses anyway, or are doing it as a publicity stunt, possibly both. Corporations lobby for tax breaks, get the tax breaks and then reward the politicians with a publicity stunt to rally support for the tax breaks. Pretty fucking obvious to anyone paying attention.

AnomanderRake wrote:

Frank Ricard wrote:Looks like they've been able to keep the CHIP program going till Feb. Of all the flaws in this plan, the thing that bothers me most is the 13 million losing their health insurance.

On a plus side, it looks like there's a few corporations giving a bonus to their employees. Tough not being a total cynic, but it's hard to say that's not a good thing.

These corporations handing out bonuses had billions in profits this year, and the taxes they benefit from don't go into effect until the next tax year.

They were either going to give out these bonuses anyway, or are doing it as a publicity stunt, possibly both. Corporations lobby for tax breaks, get the tax breaks and then reward the politicians with a publicity stunt to rally support for the tax breaks. Pretty fucking obvious to anyone paying attention.

Publicity stunt. They are kissing ass because they want something from trump.

AT&T wants the merger to go through
Boeing wants more contracts from the government.

I was watching the finance segment on the news, a lot of companies in the S&P are already sitting on a sum of a trillion dollars. They aren’t strapped for cash and they havent raised wages or given bigger bonuses in the past.

Also, my job the BOD is a bunch of Trump fans. My bonus shrunk this year, they’ve reduced staff and I’m due for a raise. Let’s see how much of an increase I get now that the tax cuts go through.

Taking the fight to the elites every day.

President Trump reportedly told friends at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida just hours after he signed the GOP tax bill that they all just got wealthier.

"You all just got a lot richer," Trump said Friday at a dinner at Mar-a-Lago, two friends at a table near the president told CBS News.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/366348-trump-told-friends-at-mar-a-lago-you-all-just-got-a-lot-richer-after?amp&__twitter_impression=true

Frank Ricard wrote:Looks like they've been able to keep the CHIP program going till Feb. Of all the flaws in this plan, the thing that bothers me most is the 13 million losing their health insurance.

On a plus side, it looks like there's a few corporations giving a bonus to their employees. Tough not being a total cynic, but it's hard to say that's not a good thing.

And of course ChiP could have been funded for much longer had 8 Dems been willing to vote yes on giving 91% of Americans (scraps from the table?) a tax cut.

So now Dems can run on that. They voted against letting people keep more of their own $$ and against health insurance for Children. Sounds like a good platform.

LooseGoose wrote:

Frank Ricard wrote:Looks like they've been able to keep the CHIP program going till Feb.  Of all the flaws in this plan, the thing that bothers me most is the 13 million losing their health insurance.

On a plus side, it looks like there's a few corporations giving a bonus to their employees.  Tough not being a total cynic, but it's hard to say that's not a good thing.

And of course ChiP could have been funded for much longer had 8 Dems been willing to vote yes on giving 91% of Americans (scraps from the table?) a tax cut.

So now Dems can run on that.   They voted against letting people keep more of their own $$ and against health insurance for Children.   Sounds like a good platform.

Recycled GOP talking points from LooseGoose.

Who saw that coming?

LooseGoose wrote:

Frank Ricard wrote:Looks like they've been able to keep the CHIP program going till Feb.  Of all the flaws in this plan, the thing that bothers me most is the 13 million losing their health insurance.

On a plus side, it looks like there's a few corporations giving a bonus to their employees.  Tough not being a total cynic, but it's hard to say that's not a good thing.

And of course ChiP could have been funded for much longer had 8 Dems been willing to vote yes on giving 91% of Americans (scraps from the table?) a tax cut.

So now Dems can run on that.   They voted against letting people keep more of their own $$ and against health insurance for Children.   Sounds like a good platform.

he’s learning folks. He’s learning how shit works. I mean, he questions it. But he’s starting to learn. Slowly.

Rocinante wrote: but let's not forget the stimulus to bring us out of the recession .

Gosh not a word about the stimulus adding to the deficit.   Of course when doubling the debt the country owed is your legacy it is a subject to be avoided.

LooseGoose wrote:

Rocinante wrote: but let's not forget the stimulus to bring us out of the recession .

Gosh not a word about the stimulus adding to the deficit.   Of course when doubling the debt the country owed is your legacy it is a subject to be avoided.

Gosh not a word from Goose about this tax plan's potential impact on the deficit. I guess stuff like a budget deficit and the national debt only matter when a Democrat sits in the Oval Office.

Lol maybe not sorry for the false alarm