Re: tSwill Official World Cup Thread

[kingstonlake]

Lol you don't have to like something to be honest about it. I don't like professional basketball. But I can see that it's wildly popular, has great ratings, and kids love playing it. I'm glad you like soccer OTPT. I'll get you a trophy for it. What would you like engraved on it?

But since you don't like it and know little about it, you've missed the mark on much of what you call being honest.

I know that it's not popular here, we're not good at it on a global scale (Men). We are fantastic at in globally (Women) and still no one cares. I've said it's a rich kids sport. That's a problem growth wise. There's no corporate interest because there's no money to be made because no one cares or watches. It's about money. You can market the next the next MJ or Tom Brady from age 15 for Christ sakes. Because sponsors, shoe companies, and Ford can make money off if it. So can the NCAA. So can CBS. So can ESPN. So can Jiffy peanut butter if the next MJ signs on the dotted line.

Nobody gives a crap about the next Renaldo. Maybe once there's five of them and they're done learning how to play......overseas and the US wins consistently then you might have a chance.

The fact that I don't like or watch soccer doesn't matter. The fact that most people don't, does.

[MiamiSpartan]

I still think it’s marketing first. I say it again, why doesn’t a channel surfer old man like me know more about our professional league?

Then once you get a more athletic pool use the various techniques of training etc. but make kids want to play past high school. We really don’t.

Our athletes for soccer are on par with what the best soccer countries in the world have playing. It's not an athletic issue. And kids aren't going to dream of playing in what amounts to the minor leagues. They'll dream of playing in Spain, England, Italy, and Germany. Play past high school? Ideally, our best players should be playing in Europe before they finish high school, and even before they start high school. And many do. I know that's a big ask of parents, and not always realistic. That's why I said "ideally".

I think there's an interesting underlying point in what you're saying, and that's that you're looking at other American sports and how to make soccer like them.

But soccer is not solely or predominantly an American sport. There's actual competition out there. Let's look at the other four major sports:

Football (American) - No one else plays, of course we'll dominate.

Basketball - Some other countries play a little, because like soccer, it is a cheap easy sport to play. But still, they play in far less numbers than we play soccer, so of course we'll dominate. But also you're talking just a handful of countries that really put any effort into it.

Baseball - If the only countries that played soccer were Cuba, Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Japan, and somewhat Mexico, we'd be one of the best in the world in soccer, too. Same pay-to-play problems in the US as there is for soccer, but because of relatively little competition worldwide, we still feel like a power. But when you see how strongly those other countries are represented in America's Pasttime, we are clearly well short of where we should be.

Hockey - Similar to baseball. Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland, Norway, somewhat Germany and a couple of Eastern European countries, but little competition, so we'll always be one of the Top few teams. Pay-to-play is also a problem for youth development.

So you can't really compare soccer to other sports in this country, as there is a whole different level of worldwide competition. To compete, we shouldn't look at emulating other sports in this country, but rather emulate how soccer is done in other countries.

Also, it should be pointed out that we are not as "bad" as people think. Over the last 25 years, we are legitimately a Top 20 soccer nation in the world. We are a very long way from legitimately Top 10, though. We shit the bed in qualifying. But that was qualifying in the same region that we won the tournament in (the Gold Cup) just a year ago. TBF, Mexico sent a B team to do that, but then worst case we were legitimately second, but we are not the 5th best team in North/Central America. Nations that also shit the bed in qualifying include Italy, Holland, and Chile (who were just coming off back to back South American Championships). Germany went out in the group stages. It's sports, it happens. But the reaction to the US missing the World Cup is a good thing, as it's forcing the powers that be not rely on the status quo and look for how we can change things.

[MiamiSpartan]

But since you don't like it and know little about it, you've missed the mark on much of what you call being honest.

I know that it's not popular here, we're not good at it on a global scale (Men). We are fantastic at in globally (Women) and still no one cares. I've said it's a rich kids sport. That's a problem growth wise. There's no corporate interest because there's no money to be made because no one cares or watches. It's about money. You can market the next the next MJ or Tom Brady from age 15 for Christ sakes. Because sponsors, shoe companies, and Ford can make money off if it. So can the NCAA. So can CBS. So can ESPN. So can Jiffy peanut butter if the next MJ signs on the dotted line.

Nobody gives a crap about the next Renaldo. Maybe once there's five of them and they're done learning how to play......overseas and the US wins consistently then you might have a chance.

The fact that I don't like or watch soccer doesn't matter. The fact that most people don't, does.

It does matter in this discussion that you don't like soccer, because if you followed soccer you wouldn't have such misinformed opinions. There's no corporate interest? Tell me why NBC paid a billion dollars over 4 or 5 years for rights to the English Premier League?

Yes, it is kind of a rich players' game, due to the pay to play structure. That is a problem. Most people know this. It's also a problem with hockey and baseball. But there is also more than your suburban Michigan neighborhood out there. Michigan is not traditionally a strong soccer-producing state (and when it has, they end up becoming pompous douchebags commentating on Fox). It's a little different in Florida, Texas, and California.

[kingstonlake]

I know that it's not popular here, we're not good at it on a global scale (Men). We are fantastic at in globally (Women) and still no one cares. I've said it's a rich kids sport. That's a problem growth wise. There's no corporate interest because there's no money to be made because no one cares or watches. It's about money. You can market the next the next MJ or Tom Brady from age 15 for Christ sakes. Because sponsors, shoe companies, and Ford can make money off if it. So can the NCAA. So can CBS. So can ESPN. So can Jiffy peanut butter if the next MJ signs on the dotted line.

Nobody gives a crap about the next Renaldo. Maybe once there's five of them and they're done learning how to play......overseas and the US wins consistently then you might have a chance.

The fact that I don't like or watch soccer doesn't matter. The fact that most people don't, does.

It does matter in this discussion that you don't like soccer, because if you followed soccer you wouldn't have such misinformed opinions. There's no corporate interest? Tell me why NBC paid a billion dollars over 4 or 5 years for rights to the English Premier League?

Yes, it is kind of a rich players' game, due to the pay to play structure. That is a problem. Most people know this. It's also a problem with hockey and baseball. But there is also more than your suburban Michigan neighborhood out there. Michigan is not traditionally a strong soccer-producing state (and when it has, they end up becoming pompous douchebags commentating on Fox). It's a little different in Florida, Texas, and California.

So it's regional on an even smaller scale then hockey.....

I have no idea why NBC spend a billion dollars to broadcast soccer games where fewer people watch than a regional televised Yankees game....

I know, I know, I'm misinformed supposedly. If thats your retort to the raw numbers, that's fine. Doesn't bother me in the least. I've no skin in the game. I'm just one of a vast majority that don't care about the sport. But kudos to those who do.

[MiamiSpartan]

It does matter in this discussion that you don't like soccer, because if you followed soccer you wouldn't have such misinformed opinions. There's no corporate interest? Tell me why NBC paid a billion dollars over 4 or 5 years for rights to the English Premier League?

Yes, it is kind of a rich players' game, due to the pay to play structure. That is a problem. Most people know this. It's also a problem with hockey and baseball. But there is also more than your suburban Michigan neighborhood out there. Michigan is not traditionally a strong soccer-producing state (and when it has, they end up becoming pompous douchebags commentating on Fox). It's a little different in Florida, Texas, and California.

So it's regional on an even smaller scale then hockey.....

I have no idea why NBC spend a billion dollars to broadcast soccer games where fewer people watch than a regional televised Yankees game....

I know, I know, I'm misinformed supposedly. If thats your retort to the raw numbers, that's fine. Doesn't bother me in the least. I've no skin in the game. I'm just one of a vast majority that don't care about the sport. But kudos to those who do.

Yes, because those three states are the only states where soccer is played. Just being obtuse because you realize that you're basing your entire impression of youth soccer in this country on a 5 mile radius around your house?

Regardless of whether you personally think that NBC should or shouldn't have spent a billion dollars on the rights, the fact is that they did. And that disproves your point that there's no corporate interest, as does the numerous sponsors for the MLS, the Copa America 2 years ago, and the international and club friendlies that take place around the country. This is why your opinions are misinformed. I have no interest in trying to get you to like or appreciate soccer, just trying to inform you of some of the facts.

That wasn't a retort to "raw numbers" because you haven't presented any raw numbers that I recall (though TBF, I only skimmed through some of your DSF with Travis yesterday).

But what's really your point here? That we aren't one of the Top 5 soccer nations in the world? Ok, that's hardly a revelation. So what's the big deal?

[kingstonlake]

My point is it's hard to get better when nobody cares about getting better. I don't care if NBC spent $50 or 50 billion dollars. Less than 600,000 people watch regular season games. Actually the money being spent kinda proves our point. Force feeding the public a soccer match doesn't make it interesting. Don't care how much you spent. NBC could spend a billion on team ping pong matches. Doesn't mean anyone cares outside of ping pong fans. US soccer is Canadian football. Those who are good don't play there. Sure there's a niche fanbase. But honestly nobody really cares if you look big picture. So hence no desire to really excel or grow something domestically. The few good ones will come here to play.

[steveschneider]

My point is it's hard to get better when nobody cares about getting better. I don't care if NBC spent $50 or 50 billion dollars. Less than 600,000 people watch regular season games. Actually the money being spent kinda proves our point. Force feeding the public a soccer match doesn't make it interesting. Don't care how much you spent. NBC could spend a billion on team ping pong matches. Doesn't mean anyone cares outside of ping pong fans. US soccer is Canadian football. Those who are good don't play there. Sure there's a niche fanbase. But honestly nobody really cares if you look big picture. So hence no desire to really excel or grow something domestically. The few good ones will come here to play.

I enjoy the World Cup, in the past my interest always peters out after the tournament. If I'm really honest with myself I do really enjoy a good match but I prefer baseball, a good Spartan football game and basketball. I'm going to give the PL a shot and follow Arsenal. Who knows maybe I'll grow to love it.

[MiamiSpartan]

My point is it's hard to get better when nobody cares about getting better. I don't care if NBC spent $50 or 50 billion dollars. Less than 600,000 people watch regular season games. Actually the money being spent kinda proves our point. Force feeding the public a soccer match doesn't make it interesting. Don't care how much you spent. NBC could spend a billion on team ping pong matches. Doesn't mean anyone cares outside of ping pong fans. US soccer is Canadian football. Those who are good don't play there. Sure there's a niche fanbase. But honestly nobody really cares if you look big picture. So hence no desire to really excel or grow something domestically. The few good ones will come here to play.

Look up how many people watch regular season NHL games on NBC. And those are in primetime, as opposed to mornings when half the country is still asleep. Then you also have the Spanish, Italian, and German leagues, plus the MLS.

You don't need 300 million to care in order to grow. You don't need 3 million people to care in order to grow (and a lot more than that do care). To grow and improve isn't about getting NFL-type ratings. I've discussed in this thread what the US can do to improve. Maybe we will get better as a national team, maybe we won't. That's not a huge concern of mine. Why do you care so much, is what I can't figure out?

[Other Teams Pursuing That]

Americans have this weird inferiority complex with sports or things we aren’t good at. If the country isn’t good at it, we just don’t care about it. Probably because all of the bullshit America is the best fuck yeah that is jammed down our throat in schools.

[steveschneider]

Americans have this weird inferiority complex with sports or things we aren’t good at. If the country isn’t good at it, we just don’t care about it. Probably because all of the bullshit America is the best fuck yeah that is jammed down our throat in schools.

Possible. I just think we have four really good options here. It's hard to add another sport when you are already consumed with college football, pro and college basketball, the NFL and baseball. There's year round shit to follow in the offseason as well. Some of us just might be at maximum capacity for sports entertainment.

[Senior Dickfist]

Americans have this weird inferiority complex with sports or things we aren’t good at. If the country isn’t good at it, we just don’t care about it. Probably because all of the bullshit America is the best fuck yeah that is jammed down our throat in schools.

https://youtu.be/U1mlCPMYtPk

[MiamiSpartan]

Americans have this weird inferiority complex with sports or things we aren’t good at. If the country isn’t good at it, we just don’t care about it. Probably because all of the bullshit America is the best fuck yeah that is jammed down our throat in schools.

Possible. I just think we have four really good options here. It's hard to add another sport when you are already consumed with college football, pro and college basketball, the NFL and baseball. There's year round shit to follow in the offseason as well. Some of us just might be at maximum capacity for sports entertainment.

I totally get that, and feel it myself. There are only so many hours. Because I'm a big soccer fan, that ranks high up with me. I never watch the NBA, and am only a casual NFL and Tigers fan. MSU football/basketball and Manchester United soccer are my biggest obsessions. The Red Wings are kind of right there, but it's difficult to watch them much without the NHL package, which isn't worth it to me.

But I think to OTPT's point, there is kind of this feeling of "What? We're not the best in the world? Why not? What are we doing wrong?" We do have the best athletes (generally speaking), the most resources, etc., so I get that feeling. But soccer different. The biggest and strongest don't always equal the best.

[kingstonlake]

My point is it's hard to get better when nobody cares about getting better. I don't care if NBC spent $50 or 50 billion dollars. Less than 600,000 people watch regular season games. Actually the money being spent kinda proves our point. Force feeding the public a soccer match doesn't make it interesting. Don't care how much you spent. NBC could spend a billion on team ping pong matches. Doesn't mean anyone cares outside of ping pong fans. US soccer is Canadian football. Those who are good don't play there. Sure there's a niche fanbase. But honestly nobody really cares if you look big picture. So hence no desire to really excel or grow something domestically. The few good ones will come here to play.

Look up how many people watch regular season NHL games on NBC. And those are in primetime, as opposed to mornings when half the country is still asleep. Then you also have the Spanish, Italian, and German leagues, plus the MLS.

You don't need 300 million to care in order to grow. You don't need 3 million people to care in order to grow (and a lot more than that do care). To grow and improve isn't about getting NFL-type ratings. I've discussed in this thread what the US can do to improve. Maybe we will get better as a national team, maybe we won't. That's not a huge concern of mine. Why do you care so much, is what I can't figure out?

I don't care much for soccer outside the world cup. That's the point I'm trying to make. And that seems to be pretty much the same for most. It's kinda like the olympic sports. Most care every four years about soccer and half pipe snowboard freestyle. Maybe someday it'll be more popular. I just don't see the US getting better the way it's structured now.

[Other Teams Pursuing That]

Kingston doesn’t care about soccer I’m thankful that it took us 5 pages to get that out there

[Floyd Robertson]

I still think it’s marketing first. I say it again, why doesn’t a channel surfer old man like me know more about our professional league?

Then once you get a more athletic pool use the various techniques of training etc. but make kids want to play past high school. We really don’t.

Does soccer have cheerleaders? That could help with the marketing to old dudes.

[kingstonlake]

Kingston doesn’t care about soccer I’m thankful that it took us 5 pages to get that out there

Your participation trophy will be ready on Friday. I took the liberty of engraving it myself.

[Other Teams Pursuing That]

How original and relevant to the thread.

[kingstonlake]

You have participated well OTPT. You deserve a trophy. Is this your first one for being butt hurt that people don't like soccer as much as you and understand that until people do like it, it isn't going to grown or get better?

[steveschneider]

Pretty crazy, didn’t realize until today that the people that ran out on the field were Pussy Riot.

[DWags]

Which one of you guys is this.

[Rocinante]

Clearly it's none of us, Wags, it's some Pedo state dude.

...man... that doesn't have the sting it used to.... sad. It was a good burn.

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