Didn't know this about magic and cleaves

DWags wrote:Magic kind of insulted cleaves.  Probably trying to recruit Taylor not dismiss cleaves.

http://db.lsj.com/blogswp/couchonfire/counting-down-msus-top-50-basketball-players-all-time-no-50-marcus-taylor/

Taylor is the most forgettable 1st team All B1G player ever. The whole damn world knew he wasn't ready for the NBA, but him and his dad believed the hype about being the next Magic. They insisted that we not recruit any other point guards, and then left early. He opts for the draft, and ends up in Sioux Falls, SD. He left MSU in a shitty situation too.

The perfect example that success takes a lot more than talent.

Was told by one casino regular that Mr. Taylor Sr. was also one.

Rodeo Burger wrote:

Taylor is the most forgettable 1st team All B1G player ever. The whole damn world knew he wasn't ready for the NBA, but him and his dad believed the hype about being the next Magic. They insisted that we not recruit any other point guards, and then left early. He opts for the draft, and ends up in Sioux Falls, SD. He left MSU in a shitty situation too.

The perfect example that success takes a lot more than talent.

It was deeper than that. Taylor was never going to be a NBA player! Good college player but not enough tools for the NBA.

Rodeo Burger wrote:

Taylor is the most forgettable 1st team All B1G player ever.  The whole damn world knew he wasn't ready for the NBA, but him and his dad believed the hype about being the next Magic.  They insisted that we not recruit any other point guards, and then left early.  He opts for the draft, and ends up in Sioux Falls, SD.  He left MSU in a shitty situation too.

The perfect example that success takes a lot more than talent.

For a league that so often drafts on potential, I wonder if Taylor falling to 52nd in the draft more a reflection of his potential or a reflection of teams not wanting to deal with his father. You really have to wonder how his career might have turned out if he ignored the hype and the parental advice and stayed at MSU for two more years.

Floyd Robertson wrote:

For a league that so often drafts on potential, I wonder if Taylor falling to 52nd in the draft more a reflection of his potential or a reflection of teams not wanting to deal with his father. You really have to wonder how his career might have turned out if he ignored the hype and the parental advice and stayed at MSU for two more years.

Never forget the role of Taylor's own ego.



....and disagree with bee. Dude was a lights out shooter. Think Gary Harris without the hops. Dude needed polish and could have made the league as a shooter with some defense and pg skills

I was at that game as a student and never thought of Magic's words as disparaging to Cleaves, but then again, I'm not Mateen. I'm glad it pissed him off, and if it motivated him even more, then I hope Magic does the same thing at some point this year. And I hope Trice and Tum Tum get real ornery from it.

I worked with a lot of the kids that went to school with Taylor and through high school he and his dad were very adamant that he was going to graduate from MSU.

from my estimation, Marcus is a good guy who made a very poor decision that cost him more than any of us can really appreciate. I don't see the need to celebrate it.

Blanch32 wrote:

Never forget the role of Taylor's own ego.



....and disagree with bee. Dude was a lights out shooter. Think Gary Harris without the hops. Dude needed polish and could have made the league as a shooter with some defense and pg skills

Taylor was a 39% FG shooter and 33% 3 pt shooter in his 2 years at MSU. Not a lights out shooter.
He was not going to make the league whether he stayed or not. He didn't have the skills to be a PG in the NBA nor a SG. If he did, he would have made the league at some point.

I was at the game and posted something about it just the other day. And then I think I was called an idiot.

The words I remember were something like "we all know who that is". It might have been at halftime with the teams in the locker room so Cleaves might not have even heard it and it was certainly not directed at him.
But that is how big of a deal Taylor was that he was seen as the savior, even my Magic Johnson, even when Mateen was already here. I dont think many Spartan fans had any idea of the run MSU was going to go on. Marcus Taylor, the next Magic, was going to take MSU back to the promised land.

Hmmm now that I actually read the article it says this happened just 3 months befor before the 2000 title. That means Marcus didn't decide until late.
But it also means Magic would have already been a huge Mateen fan and likely a good friend.

I went to about every game during the Mateen years and Mateen might be my favorite athlete ever. I would definitely remember if it was some kind of diss.

BTW, am I the only one that thinks this all-time ranking thing is lame.? I think Couch is usually a good writer and I cant say I have a problem with his list. But I really don't care what your opinion is if you never saw them play. I could go all the way back to Magic but I have no way of knowing if Johnny Green wawasd better than Kelser. And I think Couch is at least 10 years younger than me.

DWags wrote:

Thanks for being the only one who actually answered what the thread was about.   I assume that you are correct in that it was never a big thing otherwise.   If you can recall the words, do you think he was trying to "recruit" Taylor, and said things that Cleaves could interpret as being a slight?

I remember it as being 100% recruitment of Taylor. I know he talked about staying home like he did to win a championship. But like I said, no diss.
To be honest, I thought it was fucking awesome at the time. Everyone wanted what many considered to be one of the top, if not the top, recruits in the country.

Those were the goddamned days. Being able to sit 5 rows behind the spartan bench (back when you could be in the student section and not have to be in the izzone), and have Jason Richardson and Mo Pete dunk at your eye level. Yelling insults at Bobby Knight the previous year when we had seats behind the opposing teams bench. How freaking lucky we were.
   No, I'm not crying. I think a bug flew in my eye.

Spartan Punk wrote:
Taylor was a 39% FG shooter and 33% 3 pt shooter in his 2 years at MSU. Not a lights out shooter.
He was not going to make the league whether he stayed or not. He didn't have the skills to be a PG in the NBA nor a SG. If he did, he would have made the league at some point.

Nothing like facts to refute dumbass's views.

Sorry, but I am a HUGE Marcus Taylor fan. The kid was money. He made a bad decision and it is as though none of his accomplishments while a Spartan baller even happened!?!

Yeah I wish he would have stuck around, yes I believe his father was responsible for his leaving early, yes it was a bad decision, but the minute, if not the SECOND before any of this happened, we all knew we had a piece of gold on our team. That ended abruptly but doesn't discount what he meant to Sparta...

The clearest recollection of Taylor's last year at MSU was, that despite leading the league in assists, he seemed to never give up the ball on the break. No matter what the numbers 2-1, 3-1, MT was going to be the shooter.

duffy munn wrote:

Nothing like facts to refute dumbass's views.

You honestly don't think Taylor was a shooter??? Wow...m

Blanch32 wrote:

You honestly don't think Taylor was a shooter??? Wow...m

blanch's sports analysis:

Nothing says "lights out shooter" like a guy who misses 61% of his shots.

NigelUno wrote:

blanch's sports analysis:

Nothing says "lights out shooter" like a guy who misses 61% of his shots.

.....so know you All agrees with me that Chris hill was a better defender than soph Travis Walton??

I've forgotten most of the two years MT was at MSU, so I might have this all wrong: As I remember it, Taylor's game was decent/good for the first year-and-a-half and then he caught fire in the second half of his soph season. He added a lightning-fast drive to the basket that the team had been lacking, his shots started falling more often, and his scoring average increased.
Like I said, though; I could be wrong about that.

James Taylor was also an issue, and there was also talk of MT having slept with a teammate's girlfriend. I recall there was talk that if MT didn't leave, then the other player was going to transfer.

If I had to guess this is just Graham Couch being a dumbfuck.

tGreenWay wrote:I've forgotten most of the two years MT was at MSU, so I might have this all wrong:  As I remember it, Taylor's game was decent/good for the first year-and-a-half and then he caught fire in the second half of his soph season.  He added a lightning-fast drive to the basket that the team had been lacking, his shots started falling more often, and his scoring average increased.
Like I said, though; I could be wrong about that.

James Taylor was also an issue, and there was also talk of MT having slept with a teammate's girlfriend. I recall there was talk that if MT didn't leave, then the other player was going to transfer.

The Torbert Tragedy. I believe the story went along the lines that Kelvin was going to kick MT's ass for sleeping with his girl. MT decides to go to the draft, and ended up with playing in South Dakota. I remember Dick Vitale doing a State game the following year and ripping MT for leaving early.