Tell me about water heaters.

by **DWags** 2019-11-19, 07:22

I know some of you ballers have to have some of the latest and greatest. If you love your water heater and it won't cost me my first grandchild, let me know.

by **kingstonlake** 2019-11-19, 07:38

I believe they are the second biggest consistent expense behind heating your house. Buy a good one. I use to work for a company that repped A.O. Smith and they were expensive but recognized as the best. That was back in the 90’s though. Seems like I remember that Bradford White was a Michigan company. If it’s just you and your wife in the house 40-50 gallon heater would be enough. If you have a big soaker tub I’d go 50 gallon.

by **GRR Spartan** 2019-11-19, 07:51

Where’s it going, how long you planning on living there and how many people at peak times will be using it?

The on demand are wall mounted, might require some more than minor plumbing changes, can be pricey but some of my customers swear by them for their homes.

If it’s me I’d go with a 50 gallon higher efficiency standard.

Bradford White (based in Middleville MI) has been one of my customers for years. They make good products. The link to their residential stuff is below.

A O Smith is another known name.

https://www.bradfordwhite.com/residential-gas-water-heaters/

by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2019-11-19, 08:03

I'm not sure anyone really loves a water heater. The optimist crapped out on mine a few years back, got a replacement. It works fine. I couldn't even tell you what brand it is without going in the basement and checking. End of story.

by **steveschneider** 2019-11-19, 08:12

Ours crapped out this spring was a $2000 repair including heater and labor. Anyway to make those things last longer or have an indication of when they are going to go? Also, I guess we are a great candidate for geothermal heat which I would love to make the leap to if it works and is cost effective. Any thoughts on that?

by **Turtleneck** 2019-11-19, 09:03

They heat water.

by **GRR Spartan** 2019-11-19, 09:10

Have a relative who built a home and decided on geo-thermal 10-12 years ago. Long term it’s cost effective but initial costs are easier if rolled into the construction costs.

I’ve replaced hot water heaters for myself and relatives. With the right tools and knowing where your gas and water shut offs are the toughest part of the job is getting the hot water heater down to the basement.

by **steveschneider** 2019-11-19, 09:33

GRR Spartan wrote:Have a relative who built a home and decided on geo-thermal 10-12 years ago. Long term it’s cost effective but initial costs are easier if rolled into the construction costs.

I’ve replaced hot water heaters for myself and relatives. With the right tools and knowing where your gas and water shut offs are the toughest part of the job is getting the hot water heater down to the basement.

Ours would be roughly 20k they've improved the drill dramatically and it's much more cost effective. I think the amount we'd save in oil over time would pay for itself. That shit is expensive and the price can go up. Also, I think the equipments lasts longer and it doubles up as a heater/ac unit. Combine it with a solar unit and you are living off the grid (sort of).

by **GRR Spartan** 2019-11-19, 10:25

If you have oil heat, geo-thermal is a reasonable alternative.

When the relative built their home natural gas wasn’t an option so they were looking at propane or geo-thermal. Much like your heating oil vs geo-thermal choice. Propane made a huge jump about the time they moved in.

Geo-thermal on the cooling side has saved them a lot of money with our recent hot summers.

by **tGreenWay** 2019-11-19, 10:43

We have an AO Smith. I had no idea it was considered the best. Then again, Kingston is probably talking out of his ass again. ( Tell me about water heaters. 2809484752

)

I do want to explore a tankless water system in the next couple of years.

by **Jake from State Farm** 2019-11-19, 11:21

What I want is a hotwater heater. Seems like it would be really cheap to run.

by **I.B. Fine** 2019-11-19, 12:07

GRR Spartan wrote:If you have oil heat, geo-thermal is a reasonable alternative.

When the relative built their home natural gas wasn’t an option so they were looking at propane or geo-thermal. Much like your heating oil vs geo-thermal choice. Propane made a huge jump about the time they moved in.

Geo-thermal on the cooling side has saved them a lot of money with our recent hot summers.

This, if you don't have the option of natural gas, and you're looking to replace a furnace, geothermal is a no brainer. It is very efficient at heating, air cond, and you run your hot water supply off it.
Just make sure you have decent insulation/weather sealing because the fan will run more and may aggravate draftyness issues

As for basic HW, unless you have a space issue, going from a tank to tankless is probably not going to make sense financially. Again, what GRR said.

by **kingstonlake** 2019-11-19, 13:05

Jake from State Farm wrote:What I want is a hotwater heater. Seems like it would be really cheap to run.

I see what you did there.

by **kingstonlake** 2019-11-19, 13:07

tGreenWay wrote:We have an AO Smith. I had no idea it was considered the best. Then again, Kingston is probably talking out of his ass again. ()

I do want to explore a tankless water system in the next couple of years.

I’m pretty sure that AO Smith is a really good manufacturer of water heaters. I’m now conflicted knowing you own one. Tell me about water heaters. 1550444538

by **NigelUno** 2019-11-19, 14:35

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.*

*(Unless your wife wants a new one.)

by **The Pantry** 2019-11-19, 15:41

On-demand, tankless water heaters use to suck. Stayed at a campground that had them years ago whitewater rafting in WV. One morning the water was scalding and the next there was no hot water.

From what I've heard a lot has changed since then. I'll go tankless next time. No sense heating water you're not using all day.

Whether you go traditional tank or tankless, make sure to replace the dielectric unions.

by **Heat Miser** 2019-11-19, 16:30

The Miser's are gong tankless within the next few weeks.

by **kingstonlake** 2019-11-19, 16:35

Heat Miser wrote:The Miser's are gong tankless within the next few weeks.

by **tGreenWay** 2019-11-19, 16:37

kingstonlake wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:We have an AO Smith. I had no idea it was considered the best. Then again, Kingston is probably talking out of his ass again. ()

I do want to explore a tankless water system in the next couple of years.

I’m pretty sure that AO Smith is a really good manufacturer of water heaters. I’m now conflicted knowing you own one.

The only way to put your mind at ease is to do away with hot water altogether. Sure, cold showers and crunchy pasta will be damn near unbearable, but you will have won. And defeating me will make it all worthwhile.
Do it.

by Banks2Mason 2019-11-19, 16:47

tGreenWay wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

I’m pretty sure that AO Smith is a really good manufacturer of water heaters. I’m now conflicted knowing you own one.

The only way to put your mind at ease is to do away with hot water altogether. Sure, cold showers and crunchy pasta will be damn near unbearable, but you will have won. And defeating me will make it all worthwhile.
Do it.

- dante

by **Dendrobates** 2019-11-19, 17:41

I heard if you can swing it, tankless ones are awesome.

I’ve heard you never run out of hot water, and it saves you money since it’s not heating water all day long.

But this is all hearsay and I know nothing. Regular ones don’t last that long anymore. I think around 10 years? Mine is probably do to tank. I do pay for a hone warranty though, so if it dies, they cover the whole thing (unlike those consumer plans which only give you a small amount toward it).

by SawGreen 2019-11-19, 17:47

Is your current heater electric?

Step one at this point in my perception of your situation... replace the unit you have with the same type of unit: electric to electric / gas to gas.

I wouldn't go with the on-demand, nor remotely consider a geo unit unless you plan on being in your homestead for the next 20 years (and even then, I'm not sure you would want to switch).

by **steveschneider** 2019-11-19, 17:50

Dendrobates wrote:I heard if you can swing it, tankless ones are awesome.

I’ve heard you never run out of hot water, and it saves you money since it’s not heating water all day long.

But this is all hearsay and I know nothing. Regular ones don’t last that long anymore. I think around 10 years? Mine is probably do to tank. I do pay for a hone warranty though, so if it dies, they cover the whole thing (unlike those consumer plans which only give you a small amount toward it).

Here's the other thing when they fail it's a friggin mess - they flood the basement. There has to be a better way to improve on this system.

by **kingstonlake** 2019-11-19, 17:59

If going tankless definitely research the temperature rise you need vs what your ground water temp is. Also you made need to upgrade your electrical service in order to run an 8-9gpm requirement. I think the usually rise is rated at 6gpm. So if you have a 1.5gpm shower head you can run 4 showers simultaneously on a 30° temp rise and be fine.

by **Jake from State Farm** 2019-11-19, 18:46

The Pantry wrote:On-demand, tankless water heaters use to suck. Stayed at a campground that had them years ago whitewater rafting in WV. One morning the water was scalding and the next there was no hot water.

From what I've heard a lot has changed since then. I'll go tankless next time. No sense heating water you're not using all day.

Whether you go traditional tank or tankless, make sure to replace the dielectric unions.

Sounds like the one I bought several years ago. One minute you have a nice hot shower, the next minute you're dancing on ice.

by **The Pantry** 2019-11-19, 19:13

Another thought @Wags. Does your current water heater vent to a chimney up/out the roof (possibly shared with the furnace) or does it have a blo-wer (like Pylon referenced) that carries exhaust fumes out a side wall? Traditional water heaters venting up/out are fairly inexpensive and easy to replace. Direct vent (blo-wer) models are also pretty easy to replace but cost a lot more. They also have the drawback that they won't work if your power goes out where a traditionally vented natural gas water heater will still work fine.

by **tGreenWay** 2019-11-19, 19:25

Banks2Mason wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:

The only way to put your mind at ease is to do away with hot water altogether. Sure, cold showers and crunchy pasta will be damn near unbearable, but you will have won. And defeating me will make it all worthwhile.
Do it.

- dante

I don’t get it, but you do you, Goober.

by aualum06 2019-11-19, 20:05

They keep water hot

by **Nordic** 2019-11-19, 20:25

Replaced mine two years ago. Stick with the traditional tank for now Dwags. Tried and true. You don't want Mrs. Dwags complaining about water temp problems. Go bigger than you need. Hire someone to put it in. They are not that expensive.

by **DWags** 2019-11-19, 20:39

Thanks all very helpful

by **By-Tor** 2019-11-19, 21:06

My 15yo hot water heater was acting up over the summer and I figured out via the error code and YouTube that it was the thermocouple and ended up fixing the problem. Very proud of myself.

by **y2kMgrad** 2019-11-19, 21:20

Ours died a year ago. It was about 15 years old. Called up Lowes, told them what I needed and they brought one out and installed it. I had to pay a little extra for labor because I replaced a 40 gallon with a 50 gallon so they had to cut some more space for it behind the wall but the whole thing still only cost me about $1300. That's all I got.

by **The Pantry** 2019-11-19, 22:37

y2kMgrad wrote:Ours died a year ago. It was about 15 years old. Called up Lowes, told them what I needed and they brought one out and installed it. I had to pay a little extra for labor because I replaced a 40 gallon with a 50 gallon so they had to cut some more space for it behind the wall but the whole thing still only cost me about $1300. That's all I got.

$1300 sounds steep. Generally, if the heater doesn't fit they move it out away from the wall and rearrange the exhaust stack.

by **y2kMgrad** 2019-11-19, 22:49

The Pantry wrote:
y2kMgrad wrote:Ours died a year ago. It was about 15 years old. Called up Lowes, told them what I needed and they brought one out and installed it. I had to pay a little extra for labor because I replaced a 40 gallon with a 50 gallon so they had to cut some more space for it behind the wall but the whole thing still only cost me about $1300. That's all I got.
$1300 sounds steep. Generally, if the heater doesn't fit they move it out away from the wall and rearrange the exhaust stack.

Perhaps. I thought it was reasonable at the time. Whoever finished the basement at the house built the wall around the water heater in the bathroom and then installed an access panel. It was a very odd setup, but never was a problem for us until the water heater broke. He was pretty limited as to what he could do to make the new one fit. At any rate, I thought he did a decent job. We've since sold the house and moved into a new one. I'll probably have to install one here in a few years too smh. That one I'll do myself though.

by **steveschneider** 2019-11-20, 07:50

y2kMgrad wrote:
The Pantry wrote:$1300 sounds steep. Generally, if the heater doesn't fit they move it out away from the wall and rearrange the exhaust stack.

Perhaps. I thought it was reasonable at the time. Whoever finished the basement at the house built the wall around the water heater in the bathroom and then installed an access panel. It was a very odd setup, but never was a problem for us until the water heater broke. He was pretty limited as to what he could do to make the new one fit. At any rate, I thought he did a decent job. We've since sold the house and moved into a new one. I'll probably have to install one here in a few years too smh. That one I'll do myself though.

I paid about 2k I called a few plumbers too and the quotes were all around there. I went with the one that was able to get out to us the quickest. Plumbers must be more expensive out here. I wish it was 1300.

by **The Pantry** 2019-11-20, 22:19

steveschneider wrote:
y2kMgrad wrote:

Perhaps. I thought it was reasonable at the time. Whoever finished the basement at the house built the wall around the water heater in the bathroom and then installed an access panel. It was a very odd setup, but never was a problem for us until the water heater broke. He was pretty limited as to what he could do to make the new one fit. At any rate, I thought he did a decent job. We've since sold the house and moved into a new one. I'll probably have to install one here in a few years too smh. That one I'll do myself though.

I paid about 2k I called a few plumbers too and the quotes were all around there. I went with the one that was able to get out to us the quickest. Plumbers must be more expensive out here. I wish it was 1300.

Plumbers are not more expensive there. It's just that you live in a state of idiots. Do the math.

A basic natural gas 40 gallon water heater costs less than $500. A water heater swap should take no more than 3 hours. You paid a guy $500 an hour?

by **Jake from State Farm** 2021-11-30, 09:39

Anyone know anything about the heat pump water heaters? They're supposedly pretty economical to run and I'm considering one as a replacement for the propane one I'm running now.

by **steveschneider** 2021-11-30, 09:57

Jake from State Farm wrote:Anyone know anything about the heat pump water heaters? They're supposedly pretty economical to run and I'm considering one as a replacement for the propane one I'm running now.

I bet Trappergus could help.

by **tGreenWay** 2021-11-30, 10:36

Jake from State Farm wrote:Anyone know anything about the heat pump water heaters? They're supposedly pretty economical to run and I'm considering one as a replacement for the propane one I'm running now.

I know I’d need my plumber to handle it.

by TrapperGus 2021-11-30, 10:54

Jake from State Farm wrote:Anyone know anything about the heat pump water heaters? They're supposedly pretty economical to run and I'm considering one as a replacement for the propane one I'm running now.

Yes, I have geo-thermo preheating of the hot water.

Not a full geo-thermal system, the pre-heat probably gets the water to about 120 degrees or so. The pre heat tank feeds into an electric tank which is set at around 160 degrees.

Since this went in at the same time as a geo-thermal heating system I don't have any idea as to how economical it is, however, because of the efficiency of the heat pump, around 800% per watt of electricity, it surely must help.

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