Bob Duffy? WTF?

Probably didn't help that they went on lockdown the day after this board meeting. Something the kid said he fears coming over the PA every time there was an announcement.

https://eastlansinginfo.news/east-lansing-police-first-heard-about-high-school-lockdown-from-a-parent-who-called-911/

Nordic wrote:Probably didn't help that they went on lockdown the day after this board meeting. Something the kid said he fears coming over the PA every time there was an announcement.

https://eastlansinginfo.news/east-lansing-police-first-heard-about-high-school-lockdown-from-a-parent-who-called-911/

Sounding more and more like complete failure on behalf of the school. I mean, a parent has to call the cops? Jesus.

I used to tell my superintendent “if you need 5 names per class that need intervention and we keep them out of the general population until satisfactory completion, the school becomes 75% better. 20 total kids. He of course told me that’s not possible. And I knew it. We have set rules. Follow them. And boy do they handcuff you.

duffy munn wrote:

Nordic wrote:Probably didn't help that they went on lockdown the day after this board meeting. Something the kid said he fears coming over the PA every time there was an announcement.

https://eastlansinginfo.news/east-lansing-police-first-heard-about-high-school-lockdown-from-a-parent-who-called-911/

Sounding more and more like complete failure on behalf of the school. I mean, a parent has to call the cops? Jesus.

Yeah. Sounds like there is a big transparency/communication issue.

Also how is the school not locked down during school hours? In our distrct, there is one secured entrance and you need to be buzzed in. Other doors are alarmed. Of course that didn't stop Ethan Crumbley.

I've got 3+ more months of public school systems.

Not so fun fact: One of the first, if not •the• first, school shootings happened in early 1978 at Everett HS in Lansing. Loner kid who’d been picked on for a year because he always wore a swastika pin pulled a Ruger and opened fire as the final bell rang about 2 pm. His first shot injured one student and his next shots killed another. He then gave up.
Absolutely fascinating story follows, something that probably wouldn’t happen today. Because the shooter was 15, he was tried as a juvenile and sent to detention until he turned 19, then he was a free man.
While at the Maxey Boys Juvy School near ann arbor, the kid got his HS diploma, and because he exhibited great proficiency in math, he was allowed to take classes — with supervision— at umaa. He got his bachelors and masters pretty quickly, then his Ph.D by the time he reached age 30. He taught at City College of New York, but according to the article below, he’s seemingly fallen off the map.

This article appeared at the end of 2021 after the Oxford School shooting.
https://www.bridgemi.com/talent-education/1978-teen-opened-fire-lansing-everett-it-has-lessons-oxford

Nordic wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Dori Leyko's statement (she's the superintendent) was heartfelt. She was very upset, struggled through tears and really acknowledged some failures and pledged to rectify them.

Lots of students spoke but two adults that, to me, had the most impact (maybe 'cause I now them both) are at 39:00 and 54:00 of the video. Kevin Mayes is a longtime teacher, basketball coach. To see him shaken was hard for me to watch.

The mom from the 39 minute mark has had (I believe) 4 kids go through EL schools and her daughter is now a teacher there, along with swim/water polo coach. She was in the parking lot - one of the first adults to get there - when the big fight broke out involving the gun.

If you (anyone) haven't, it's worth watching these two statements.

Link

Watched a good chunk of this, including your suggestions above. Then listened to the board. Most were a shocked and said they would process their comments. Then the ELPS board president got on with a bunch of 'buts' and a resume' recapping. The Superintendent took a swipe at her "thick skin" comment and others.

Appreciate you watching it and I agree with your assessment.

duffy munn wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote: I hear ya, man..

and, as I mentioned earlier, it's tough to put toothpaste back in the tube, but someone needs to take the reins and make the tough decisions, stand up and say 'enough'. By texting friends (granted, all of our kids have moved on), talking with our daughter, etc., I get the feeling that the EL community is starving for that.

it might sound obnoxious, but as Kevin Mayes (the teacher/coach you referred to) said, East Lansing is better than this. We, as a community, are thirsty for intervention and taking a hard line.

As I mentioned in a previous post, accountability and discipline is one of the highest forms of love. It's time to show some love.

Kevin is a good dude. He coached some friends kids at EL and did a really nice job stepping in when Finamore resigned under fire.

he's  a great guy and I am very outspoken about my support for Finamore, too. Steve and I go way back, back to his days, even, as a manager under Izzo at MSU.  I'm a ride or die with the folks I'm loyal to.

(Side note, just spent 3 hours at the PB with Brad, PJ, Dick, Tommy, Heieny, etc).

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

duffy munn wrote:

Kevin is a good dude. He coached some friends kids at EL and did a really nice job stepping in when Finamore resigned under fire.

he's  a great guy and I am very outspoken about my support for Finamore, too. Steve and I go way back, back to his days, even, as a manager under Izzo at MSU.  I'm a ride or die with the folks I'm loyal to.

(Side note, just spent 3 hours at the PB with Brad, PJ, Dick, Tommy, Heieny, etc).

Sounds like bitter hour ran a little long tonight. Hopefully choir practice was productive and some of the worlds problems were solved.

Nordic wrote:

duffy munn wrote:

Sounding more and more like complete failure on behalf of the school. I mean, a parent has to call the cops? Jesus.

Yeah. Sounds like there is a big transparency/communication issue.

Also how is the school not locked down during school hours? In our distrct, there is one secured entrance and you need to be buzzed in. Other doors are alarmed. Of course that didn't stop Ethan Crumbley.

I've got 3+ more months of public school systems.

It’s a great idea. Locked and then alarmed doors.

But think about that: that’s where we’re at with our public schools

DWags wrote:

Nordic wrote:

Yeah. Sounds like there is a big transparency/communication issue.

Also how is the school not locked down during school hours? In our distrct, there is one secured entrance and you need to be buzzed in. Other doors are alarmed. Of course that didn't stop Ethan Crumbley.

I've got 3+ more months of public school systems.

It’s a great idea. Locked and then alarmed doors.

But think about that: that’s where we’re at with our public schools

True and sad. About 10 years ago I was at a funeral in the church right next to my high school. I was early and decided to take a walk through the old stomping grounds. I went through the main entrance and starting walking down the halls. I got about 20 feet when people came running out of the office to confront me. They forgot to lock the door and were freaking out. Here I was an old guy alumnus in suit and tie. But sadly I got it.

DWags wrote:

Nordic wrote:

Yeah. Sounds like there is a big transparency/communication issue.

Also how is the school not locked down during school hours? In our distrct, there is one secured entrance and you need to be buzzed in. Other doors are alarmed. Of course that didn't stop Ethan Crumbley.

I've got 3+ more months of public school systems.

It’s a great idea. Locked and then alarmed doors.

But think about that: that’s where we’re at with our public schools

Yep. Kid still wants to be a teacher (elementary). I'm hoping she finds something else.

Nordic wrote:

DWags wrote:

It’s a great idea. Locked and then alarmed doors.

But think about that: that’s where we’re at with our public schools

Yep. Kid still wants to be a teacher (elementary). I'm hoping she finds something else.

Teaching is a tough road, financially, and has gotten more difficult over the years, as more states have been able to break down the teacher's unions.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Nordic wrote:

Yep. Kid still wants to be a teacher (elementary). I'm hoping she finds something else.

Teaching is a tough road, financially, and has gotten more difficult over the years, as more states have been able to break down the teacher's unions.

I’m telling you, I’ve always said if the nation had a weeks long public school teacher walkout, just one week, shit would change fast.

Teachers, by their nature, and because of their nurture, could never do something like that to their students and the families of those students. And buying large most of America knows that, and that’s why they fuck with them all the time.

another 'shelter in place' at ELHS this morning.

per WLNS

Robert J Sakimano wrote:another 'shelter in place' at ELHS this morning.

per WLNS

What a fucking mess and no one seems capable of cleaning it up

duffy munn wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:another 'shelter in place' at ELHS this morning.  

per WLNS

What a fucking mess and no one seems capable of cleaning it up

from what I can tell, it's basically two groups of students.

these students need to be expelled and escorted out of the building by ELPD. They need to have it made crystal clear that if they are seen on ELPS grounds in any capacity, they will be arrested for, at a minimum, trespassing. Nobody will ever accuse me of being "pro-police" and there are plenty of times, more than not, actually, that a police presence will absolutely escalate a situation, but the fact here is that the situation is already escalated.

it needs to be made known that disciplinary action will be taken for everything from tardiness to fighting. The people speaking out represent a majority of the East Lansing community. It's not the usual loudmouth parents who show up at every board meeting upset at something. These are students, staff, educators, parents, community members showing up 10 deep in the board room and down the hallway because they do not feel safe inside the school.

I think the teachers and administrations hands are tied by the school board. I have sat on numerous committees and participated in more trainings that I care to even remember with regard to Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. DEI and "right and wrong" and "accountability" are mutually exclusive. The sooner the board (one person in particular) realizes this and their ego allows for a little bit of humility, the sooner the kids can get back to learning.

until then, this is a disaster and something even worse feels inevitable.

But who are those groups, Bob? Is it a race thing? Dweebs vs burnouts? School of choice vs in-district? Towar vs Whitehills? Nobody’s getting to the heart of this and why it’s happening.

tGreenWay wrote:But who are those groups, Bob? Is it a race thing? Dweebs vs burnouts? School of choice vs in-district? Towar vs Whitehills? Nobody’s getting to the heart of this and why it’s happening.

I'm not sure.. but that's the problem. People are afraid to call it what it is.

and I truly don't know. Doesn't matter to me.. what matters to me is that it gets taken care of and kids can feel safe in their learning environment. I can tell ya this, if Andy Wells was still principal, I bet this thing would've been handled very early on.

HS students are no different that any other segment of the population and with social media are exposed to a lot more abhorrent behavior from platforms like TikTok, Instagram, Facebook and seen on all of them plus sites like Reddit than even my 30 year old had a dozen years ago.  A lot of the school fights or attacks magically make it to video that gets posted moments after they occur.

Those children see adults vandalizing, fights, going off on restaurant employees and even teachers being attacked by adults.  If it's adults doing that crap, there's a "Why not?" component that makes it acceptable in their not fully developed brains.

Dwags is spot on about some of the parents.  They are experts in student rights/parent rights and punishment or lack of.  I know a few school administrators who have told me that they sign off on school of choice requests and think "good riddance" but know their counterparts are thinking the same when they signing the same forms sending students to his school system.  The helluva it is some of these kids made it a year or less at at charter or parochial and their home district is happy to send them (and their parents) down the road.

From the outside looking in, East Lansing HS principal wanting to keep things in house is going to blow up in their face. This ain't the 70's-80's or further back when students settled disagreements with fists and bringing a knife to school was huge deal.  With so many HS students driving, some angry student(s) can carry an arsenal in their car and no one will know until it's too late.

For some students there is also the pressure to perform causing huge issues.

One of my kids was a math teacher at a higher social-economic level high school and taught AP Math, basically calculus, to students who have never received, or deserved, less than an "A" in their lives.  The course was designed to get them ready for college instruction, which started on the first day with the students being informed that it was very likely that they would not be getting "A" unless they learned how to work like a college student, immediately.  Needless to say, a number had emotional issues as they went through the courses.  Not a great situation in a country where there are more guns than people.

The point being, that high school students are under way more pressure for grades and to perform now, from parents and from themselves, which also causes more behavioral issues.

Back in the late 60's, early 70's when I was in high school, and it was a higher social-economic level high school, grades were not in the top 10 of things I was worried about.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:But who are those groups, Bob? Is it a race thing? Dweebs vs burnouts? School of choice vs in-district? Towar vs Whitehills? Nobody’s getting to the heart of this and why it’s happening.

I'm not sure.. but that's the problem. People are afraid to call it what it is.

and I truly don't know. Doesn't matter to me.. what matters to me is that it gets taken care of and kids can feel safe in their learning environment. I can tell ya this, if Andy Wells was still principal, I bet this thing would've been handled very early on.

Mr Wells was the best, he was just AD or less when I was in school but after the fact he ran things top notch.

No surprise that things have gone downhill at ELHS since badass officer Wing Lum has retired...we never had this sort of shit happening when he was out there spinning on the ones and twos.

pulling69 wrote:No surprise that things have gone downhill at ELHS since badass officer Wing Lum has retired...we never had this sort of shit happening when he was out there spinning on the ones and twos.

Wing is great. It’s been several years since I last saw him. He was working security at Sparrow, but I don’t think he’s doing that anymore.

ELPS Fight Now Statewide News

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

DWags wrote:Wow. I’m a bit shocked.

https://eastlansinginfo.news/east-lansing-high-school-teachers-and-students-describe-fear-and-exhaustion-from-ongoing-violence/

it's been a mess, from what I can tell.

you (might) know how it is. Our daughter graduated from ELHS in 2018, I haven't set a foot on campus (other than the track in the summer) since, no contact with staff/faculty from there in a while, no friends with kids there anymore, etc - so we feel completely disengaged from EL public schools, really.

Kid texted yesterday, as she had heard something about this. Sent me a video of the board meeting from Monday night (I believe) - I knew a lot of the teachers who spoke, a handful of the parents who spoke. Nearly 3 hours of public comments.

Sounds like the administration/board has had a hard time holding students accountable for actions, behaviors. It's obviously escalated from there and now they're at the point where you can't put toothpaste back in the tube.

The initial stage of handling a problem is acknowledging that there is one. At the school board meeting, some of the board members were in tears. I think they heard concerns and had a difficult time processing it (except for one board member.. who needs to resign immediately) - but there was a snow day today and I suspect they're using it as an emergency strategic planning session.

Holding kids accountable, while not easy, is one of the most profound acts of love one can engage in. Something needs to be done immediately or, it sounds like, things could get really bad.

she didn't resign from the board but she did step down as president.

apparently, another board member made a motion to remove Edsall from her position as president. Another board member seconded the motion but before they could move forward, Edsall resigned as president.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
it's been a mess, from what I can tell.

you (might) know how it is. Our daughter graduated from ELHS in 2018, I haven't set a foot on campus (other than the track in the summer) since, no contact with staff/faculty from there in a while, no friends with kids there anymore, etc - so we feel completely disengaged from EL public schools, really.

Kid texted yesterday, as she had heard something about this. Sent me a video of the board meeting from Monday night (I believe) - I knew a lot of the teachers who spoke, a handful of the parents who spoke. Nearly 3 hours of public comments.

Sounds like the administration/board has had a hard time holding students accountable for actions, behaviors. It's obviously escalated from there and now they're at the point where you can't put toothpaste back in the tube.

The initial stage of handling a problem is acknowledging that there is one. At the school board meeting, some of the board members were in tears. I think they heard concerns and had a difficult time processing it (except for one board member.. who needs to resign immediately) - but there was a snow day today and I suspect they're using it as an emergency strategic planning session.

Holding kids accountable, while not easy, is one of the most profound acts of love one can engage in. Something needs to be done immediately or, it sounds like, things could get really bad.

she didn't resign from the board but she did step down as president.

apparently, another board member made a motion to remove Edsall from her position as president. Another board member seconded the motion but before they could move forward, Edsall resigned as president.

Appropriate action by the other board members and by her.

It is clear she wasn't helping as the President, but that doesn't mean as an elected board member she doesn't have good ideas in some other areas.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
she didn't resign from the board but she did step down as president.

apparently, another board member made a motion to remove Edsall from her position as president. Another board member seconded the motion but before they could move forward, Edsall resigned as president.

Appropriate action by the other board members and by her.

It is clear she wasn't helping as the President, but that doesn't mean as an elected board member she doesn't have good ideas in some other areas.

Certainly true, although I’ll add from everything I’ve read and in speaking to a few parents, it’s less that she wasn’t helping and more that she was actively hindering the situation(s).

tGreenWay wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Appropriate action by the other board members and by her.

It is clear she wasn't helping as the President, but that doesn't mean as an elected board member she doesn't have good ideas in some other areas.

Certainly true, although I’ll add from everything I’ve read and in speaking to a few parents, it’s less that she wasn’t helping and more that she was actively hindering the situation(s).

Where I worked saying someone "wasn't helping" was absolutely saying they were fucking things up, but we all were pretty low key in our criticisms.  Yes, exactly what my "wasn't helping" said & I agree with your assessment.

tGreenWay wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Appropriate action by the other board members and by her.

It is clear she wasn't helping as the President, but that doesn't mean as an elected board member she doesn't have good ideas in some other areas.

Certainly true, although I’ll add from everything I’ve read and in speaking to a few parents, it’s less that she wasn’t helping and more that she was actively hindering the situation(s).

Sometimes you have to step back and say, "I thought my approach would work, I still believe in many aspects of it. However, what is going on at our school is not right, and I understand that new leadership should take a stab at it.".

It's o.k. to admit that sometimes. I know it's almost impossible to get people to do so.

tGreenWay wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Appropriate action by the other board members and by her.

It is clear she wasn't helping as the President, but that doesn't mean as an elected board member she doesn't have good ideas in some other areas.

Certainly true, although I’ll add from everything I’ve read and in speaking to a few parents, it’s less that she wasn’t helping and more that she was actively hindering the situation(s).

yep - from my estimation, she had a certain degree of idealism. Which is great - we need that and I think the best part of ourselves should have an aspect of idealism in our day to day lives.

However, there comes a time when theory collides with the applied. It's at those moments that leaders listen, evaluate and reassess. I think that's where her shortcomings became apparent.

ultimately, she did the right thing in stepping down as board president and deserves credit for that.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:



Certainly true, although I’ll add from everything I’ve read and in speaking to a few parents, it’s less that she wasn’t helping and more that she was actively hindering the situation(s).

yep - from my estimation, she had a certain degree of idealism. Which is great - we need that and I think the best part of ourselves should have an aspect of idealism in our day to day lives.

However, there comes a time when theory collides with the applied. It's at those moments that leaders listen, evaluate and reassess. I think that's where her shortcomings became apparent.

ultimately, she did the right thing in stepping down as board president and deserves credit for that.

I agree. She went about ways attempting to curb systemic, inherent racism, but as you said, applying some theories did not work, and she kept refusing to hear what faculty, staff, and students were telling her, and this didn’t just happen overnight. From my understanding, this has been a long time coming and she refused to budge. I applaud the Board for promoting this change, and I can even see good in the now-former president staying on to be a voice reminding others of the bad things that can happen if the district overcorrects itself.

Fights at Basketball games?

In the last two days there are reports of fans fighting at a middle school game in Virginia & at a Junior Varsity game in Ypsilanti

Trapper Gus wrote:Fights at Basketball games?

In the last two days there are reports of fans fighting at a middle school game in Virginia & at a Junior Varsity game in Ypsilanti

That's nothing new... it's been known in Saginaw and Flint schools to play varsity games on Saturday mornings to avoid violence in the crowd. (probably other places too?)

Something going on at Okemos? I guess just a threat.

[tw]1622975761798905859?s=46&t=pq2_qdldGccQ23PVOKYJUA[/tw]

DWags wrote:Something going on at Okemos? I guess just a threat.

[tw]1622975761798905859?s=46&t=pq2_qdldGccQ23PVOKYJUA[/tw]

I was driving on Jolly about 9:15 this morning ( about 2 miles from the high school) when literally 30 cops and emergency vehicles went flying by. It freaked me out and my first thought was something really bad happened at OHS.

I've been out in the woods all morning and was driving back into the 517, flipped the radio to Staudt on Sports and he was talking about it with Chris Solari. With their tone, and trying to navigate what they were talking about, I felt like I'd really missed something, trying to figure out wtf was going on. Luckily, the more I listened, the more it sounded like a hoax.

just frightening, though.