Want to talk calmly about the game? I'm willing.

by **DWags** 06/09/14, 10:36 pm

First of all, this team is right there. We are a nationally relevant team. We have the ability to play with the best in the country. Proof? Lets look at this game AT OREGON.

Stats:

We played them even almost in yardage. 470 yards to 490 yards.

We had more first downs. 25-19
We had over 3 yards per carry, and 7 yards per catch.
We had the ball7 more minutes then they did. 33:40 to 26:20

We have a team that has the ability to play with the best in the country. We did this at Oregon.

The bad:

We made mistakes. For those of you who thought Max was going to be a loss because of "quarterbacking" the defense. Denard was the guy who reminded people and called plays out to the safeties. We were burned bad twice in the secondary for over 120 yards of field and 2 touchdowns. THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN LAST YEAR. Not because of talent difference, but because of the mental aspect. We have a faster defense than last year, we don't have the mental toughness and discipline right now. I believe we will. But if anyone wants to tell me different, I'll listen. I believe this defense will get better. But I also believe we are physically better already, but not mentally. Key mistakes killed us.

Also Mistakes on offense. a miss here and there and we're in this game. Cook Misses Pendlton with a quick pass, he's running forever, He missed a screen that will run for 20. It changes the game.

I like this team. I think I'd love to play Oregon again in December.

I'd love to debate this calmly with anyone. I know I'm often full of shit, but love to get your take on it.

by **Heat Miser** 06/09/14, 10:42 pm

Meh...lost to the #3 team on the road. It happens. Best team we'll see 'til bowl season, if then. Need to win out from here. I can live with it. Sucks we don't play next week.

by LoneWolfSparty 06/09/14, 10:43 pm

It was the big plays that killed us. Nardog will get that shored up. We'll be fine.

by **SeeRockCity** 06/09/14, 10:45 pm

Agreed. Youth and inexperience was the issue today.

You have to tip your cap to Oregon's d-line in the second half.

by **DWags** 06/09/14, 10:46 pm

I'm going to do this in caps, because it's so important:

EYE DISCIPLINE. WHERE ARE OUR DB'S EYES AND WHEN?

I coached db's for so long. It's very hard to train them to believe in training and know where to keep eyes and what their first and second assignment is. These guys really blew some big time plays in the game. I believe, and I might be full of shit, that Denard doesn't let that happen last year. There isn't enough communication pre snap tonight to remind people where we need to look and what we're doing. Big loss in my opinion

"vanilla" plays in the second half. I think we missed by inches in keeping drives alive and changing the game. I think we had stuff that we missed by a cut, a block or just a bad pass. I like that we almost had 500 yards in this game.

Finally, I won't run any kid down, but we have one receiver that has alligator arms. He needs to grow some balls imo..

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 06/09/14, 10:46 pm

I agree with everything you said about the Defense. I am not gonna quite give us credit for 3 ypc on offense, but I digress...

I was harping on this in the chat, and probably annoying people. But I wouldn't mind your take on it. You're a defensive guy, right?

What kind of adjustments did Oregon make in the 2nd half? Seemed like initially they came out dropping into dimes and even 7 man zones after 1st down, but then it seemed they were playing tight on our WRs and not letting Cook pick his way down the field. Cook and Warner seemed completely befuddled for the majority of the 2nd half. Seemed like we got a bit outcoached there. Agree?

I'm not trying to blame anyone - Warner and Co have been great for us. Just seemed like the Ducks were able to adjust and we were completely confused.

by **Heat Miser** 06/09/14, 10:47 pm

Props to Oregon. They are good. Hope we see them again in January...on a neutral field.

by **SeeRockCity** 06/09/14, 10:49 pm

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I agree with everything you said about the Defense. I am not gonna quite give us credit for 3 ypc on offense, but I digress...

I was harping on this in the chat, and probably annoying people. But I wouldn't mind your take on it. You're a defensive guy, right?

What kind of adjustments did Oregon make in the 2nd half? Seemed like initially they came out dropping into dimes and even 7 man zones after 1st down, but then it seemed they were playing tight on our WRs and not letting Cook pick his way down the field. Cook and Warner seemed completely befuddled for the majority of the 2nd half. Seemed like we got a bit outcoached there. Agree?

I'm not trying to blame anyone - Warner and Co have been great for us. Just seemed like the Ducks were able to adjust and we were completely confused.

I think their D-line stepped it up in the second half.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 06/09/14, 10:51 pm

Agree SRC, but there were many plays when the pressure wasn't there really, and Cook kinda turtled, and the D wound up with a sack. Something wasn't right there.

by SawGreen 06/09/14, 10:53 pm

Very good Oregon team. When I thought they were ground down, they proved me wrong.

All teachable mistakes, and a team needs that from time to time.

Other than that, defense needs better leadership. Offense needs the inches.

Last duck td sucked in a lotbof ways.

There is still a ton to play for.

by **Heat Miser** 06/09/14, 10:55 pm

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Agree SRC, but there were many plays when the pressure wasn't there really, and Cook kinda turtled, and the D wound up with a sack. Something wasn't right there.

Meh. I think Cook just didn't want to make a dumb play. A 2 yard loss is better than an INT. Sometimes theirs are just better than ours.

by **Heat Miser** 06/09/14, 10:57 pm

gHost Spartan wrote:We got ass raped

drama

- 0 points

by **Heat Miser** 06/09/14, 10:58 pm

gHost Spartan wrote:Dsntonio was, out coached

That does happen sometimes...and it's not the end of the world.

by **NigelUno** 06/09/14, 10:59 pm

DWags wrote:First of all, this team is right there. We are a nationally relevant team. We have the ability to play with the best in the country. Proof? Lets look at this game AT OREGON.

Stats:

We played them even almost in yardage. 470 yards to 490 yards.

We had more first downs. 25-19
We had over 3 yards per carry, and 7 yards per catch.
We had the ball7 more minutes then they did. 33:40 to 26:20

We have a team that has the ability to play with the best in the country. We did this at Oregon.

The bad:

We made mistakes. For those of you who thought Max was going to be a loss because of "quarterbacking" the defense. Denard was the guy who reminded people and called plays out to the safeties. We were burned bad twice in the secondary for over 120 yards of field and 2 touchdowns. THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN LAST YEAR. Not because of talent difference, but because of the mental aspect. We have a faster defense than last year, we don't have the mental toughness and discipline right now. I believe we will. But if anyone wants to tell me different, I'll listen. I believe this defense will get better. But I also believe we are physically better already, but not mentally. Key mistakes killed us.

Also Mistakes on offense. a miss here and there and we're in this game. Cook Misses Pendlton with a quick pass, he's running forever, He missed a screen that will run for 20. It changes the game.

I like this team. I think I'd love to play Oregon again in December.

I'd love to debate this calmly with anyone. I know I'm often full of shit, but love to get your take on it.

Oregon runs a pretty high powered offense. We weren't prepared for it. Yet.

by **DWags** 06/09/14, 11:00 pm

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I agree with everything you said about the Defense. I am not gonna quite give us credit for 3 ypc on offense, but I digress...

I was harping on this in the chat, and probably annoying people. But I wouldn't mind your take on it. You're a defensive guy, right?

What kind of adjustments did Oregon make in the 2nd half? Seemed like initially they came out dropping into dimes and even 7 man zones after 1st down, but then it seemed they were playing tight on our WRs and not letting Cook pick his way down the field. Cook and Warner seemed completely befuddled for the majority of the 2nd half. Seemed like we got a bit outcoached there. Agree?

I'm not trying to blame anyone - Warner and Co have been great for us. Just seemed like the Ducks were able to adjust and we were completely confused.

I'm drunk and haven't rewound the dvd yet, but at first blush, here is what I saw: You can play coverages in three ways. You can play zone, man, or pattern-match man. If you Pattern match, you just play a pattern after the initial distribution. That means you pick up in man coverage after the receivers make their initial breaks and cuts. When a guy like Mariotto is releasing the ball, you try to break on it, you're pretty fucked up. When a guy like Cook throws it, you sit and wait, same ****ing thing.

Oregon IMO confused Cook with a pattern match. You saw linemen dropping into coverage. We didn't read that properly. If you call that being out coached, I can't disagree, but what we don't know is if our guys went over that with cook. Oregon was getting away with blitzing and not having to play man. I'll run this shit through tomorrow. But I sat through a Saban clinic once where they were dropping linemen and talking about matching patterns afterward. I think it was the first Cook has ever seen. Honestly, if we had run some shit when they were dropping linemen, I think we make big gains. Like I say, I'm into a good fifth of rum right now. I'll look tomorrow.

by **steveschneider** 06/09/14, 11:01 pm

I don't think anyone is giving their d enough credit. They were hard hitting, quick, and that last interception was probably the best interception I've seen against the Spartans since Charles Woodson's interception against us at Spartan Stadium.

I agree with other posters that say we didn't get embarrassed, but Oregon was clearly the better team imo.

by **tig ol bitties** 06/09/14, 11:03 pm

Oregon is clearly the best O we have seen in a long time. Mariota is a beast. Should be invited to NYC for the Heisman ceremony for sure.....

Waaaaay too many breakdowns in the secondary. Happened against Jville State, but they couldn't make us pay. Mariota made us pay, big-time.

Gotta get the qb down when you get to him. Not sure we will see another guy as slippery as Mariota, but disappointing how many times we had him dead to rights and missed.

Thought we did alright against the run for the most part. Got away from us at the end, but not awful.

Offense needs to stick to their strengths. I'm an idiot on a message board, but to me the strength is Cook. Use his arm to open up the run game.

Could be selective memory (and i'm not gonna watch again to find out) but it seemed like everytime we tried to run out of the I-Formation, we got 2 yards or less. I only remember 1 PA pass out of the I, and it was a wide open toss. OLine doesn't seem to be good enough for power running, and Langford isn't great at making something out of nothing.

Other random thoughts:
Cook option play. I guess it is better than the wildcat in the redzone, but I still hate running it with Cook.
I was 100% wrong about Lippett. Thought he should move back to DB because he hands were crap. Whoops.
Sadler, what up man? Your punting was a weapon last year, this year seems to have taken a step back.
Stunned the coaches weren't prepared for the 2pt conversion. inexcusable not to line up properly

by **steveschneider** 06/09/14, 11:04 pm

gHost Spartan wrote:Our offense, not defense, lost the game

My feeling is their D won it. I don't think anyone expected their d to be that good.

by **Heat Miser** 06/09/14, 11:05 pm

gHost Spartan wrote:Our offense, not defense, lost the game

Want to talk calmly about the game? I'm willing. 1966794946

by **tig ol bitties** 06/09/14, 11:06 pm

Other random thought:

the big10 is a wrestling conference.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 06/09/14, 11:09 pm

Heat Miser wrote:

Meh. I think Cook just didn't want to make a dumb play. A 2 yard loss is better than an INT. Sometimes theirs are just better than ours.

For sure. He did the right thing. I'm not blaming him for turtling. If he hadn't seen what Oregon was throwing at him, much better result than throwing the ball out there. And a big part of the reason I'm theorizing that that is what happened is because Cook gives no fucks. He bounces back from everything. He doesn't get rattled from pressure. I love Cook. He saw something new out there that he wasn't prepared for, is my guess.

by **MiamiSpartan** 06/09/14, 11:10 pm

We can talk about the big plays given up, but defensively there were two third down plays in the third quarter that I feel flipped this game:

- 3rd and long, MSU up by 9, I believe, heavy pressure, Harris (?) has Mariota dead to rights, but he slips him and other pressure scrambles and shovel passes it to the RB who goes for a first down. We still had momentum from the first half, but they ended up scoring on the drive, taking momentum back.

- Next series for Oregon, I believe, 3rd and 9 after MSU declined a holding penalty on 2nd down. Mariota escapes pressure and scrambles for the first. Seemed LT was held, but never saw a good replay, and it looked like Mariota ran out of bounds before the marker. They scored to take the lead and had all the momentum, crowd fired up, etc.

The Cook missed play to Pendelton came either between the two above series or just after the second. Cook also had room to run for the first there.

Intermixed in all that, it seemed like our OL got gassed or something. There were a few series while Oregon were flipping the game where we were giving up more pressure on the QB than we had all game, and Langford seemed to be getting swarmed by multiple defenders every run play.

Outside of a few series in the third quarter, I think we outplayed them, or at least even.

by Loose Stools 06/09/14, 11:12 pm

Not worried--we're not the first team to get schooled in that stadium. Props to Oregon. We'll be fine.

by **NigelUno** 06/09/14, 11:14 pm

gHost Spartan wrote:Our offense, not defense, lost the game

Was our offense playing defense?

by HT 06/09/14, 11:14 pm

There's not much to discuss, because this game really did show the importance of the mental aspect of the game. Williamson and Hicks aren't going to know the defense like Dennard and Lewis did, and it was apparent that the inexperience in the back seven contributed to things.

I have some issues with Warner's playcalling, as I believe he went away from what put us in a position to win in the first place, but there's not much to be ashamed of in this loss. Played tough at a tough venue and held our own. Hopefully we'll beat them in EL next year.

by Guest 06/09/14, 11:21 pm

Their defense was better than ours, their offense was better than ours.

There's no leadership in our secondary and Drummond, a senior, is playing like an overzealous freshman without Dennard or Lewis to correct him. Our ends, like always, play below expectations, which happens to the best of them like Clowney. Not sure why this happens so often.

On offense, Cook's luck ran out, his WRs dropped balls and alligator armed him in the 2nd half... Run game is questionable because Jackson is undersized and the right side is inconstant at best, UM caliber at worst.

This might all be bullshit, I plan on watching a replay. Just a drunken first impression.

by LoneWolfSparty 06/09/14, 11:23 pm

NigelUno wrote:DWags wrote:“First of all, this team is right there. We are a nationally relevant team. We have the ability to play with the best in the country. Proof? Lets look at this game AT OREGON.Stats:We played them even almost in yardage. 470 yards to 490 yards.We had more first downs. 25-19 We had over 3 yards per carry, and 7 yards per catch. We had the ball7 more minutes then they did. 33:40 to 26:20We have a team that has the ability to play with the best in the country. We did this at Oregon.The bad:We made mistakes. For those of you who thought Max was going to be a loss because of "quarterbacking" the defense. Denard was the guy who reminded people and called plays out to the safeties. We were burned bad twice in the secondary for over 120 yards of field and 2 touchdowns. THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN LAST YEAR. Not because of talent difference, but because of the mental aspect. We have a faster defense than last year, we don't have the mental toughness and discipline right now. I believe we will. But if anyone wants to tell me different, I'll listen. I believe this defense will get better. But I also believe we are physically better already, but not mentally. Key mistakes killed us.Also Mistakes on offense. a miss here and there and we're in this game. Cook Misses Pendlton with a quick pass, he's running forever, He missed a screen that will run for 20. It changes the game.I like this team. I think I'd love to play Oregon again in December.I'd love to debate this calmly with anyone. I know I'm often full of shit, but love to get your take on it. ”Oregon runs a pretty high powered offense. We weren't prepared for it. Yet.

Where the heck were you for the chat??

by **NigelUno** 06/09/14, 11:24 pm

LoneWolfSparty wrote:

Where the heck were you for the chat??

I tried.

by **DWags** 06/09/14, 11:26 pm

LoneWolfSparty wrote:

Where the heck were you for the chat??

Kids left with friends, Wife and I had a chance to be alone together watchig the game. She's not a football expert but if you have teenagers, you enjoy the time with just being with the wife. So, I watched the game and wasn't going to go to chat.

by **DWags** 06/09/14, 11:27 pm

We are, by far, the best team in the big ten. We'll run this fucker, and then we'll just have to see how we're treated.

by **Heat Miser** 06/09/14, 11:27 pm

gHost Spartan wrote:
Heat Miser wrote:gHost Spartan wrote:“Our offense, not defense, lost the game ”

Play calling on offense was terrible we should have scored on almost every possession

Defense with huge blown assignments for TDs. 27 points on O is in line historically. 46 points on D is not.

by tanfan! 07/09/14, 08:52 am

Took away out tight end. Played cover two in second half. No points.

by Stoops21 07/09/14, 09:18 am

Need a defensive leader and the run game might be poop all year. O line is not very good.

by **Turtleneck** 07/09/14, 09:37 am

Heat Miser wrote:

Defense with huge blown assignments for TDs. 27 points on O is in line historically. 46 points on D is not.

...and you wonder how much of that had to to with the O not moving the ball in the 2nd half. This meant putting the D right back on the field and Oregon having decent starting position.

Following their 3rd QTR FG, MSU's next possession ate up 11 yards. After an MSU punt, Oregon started around their own 40 yard line and scored a TD. MSU's next possession was a three and out and gained no yards. After an MSU punt, Oregon again started around their own 40 yard line and scored a TD. The next MSU possession was even worse. It was another three and out that actually lost a yard. Oregon got to start at mid-field and scored again. This was a terrible sequence for the MSU O, and it did not favors for the D whatsoever. I would not say the O lost the game entirely because of D miscues, but the O played poorly in the 2nd half and that really put the D in a bad position. It is not always about matching Oregon's scoring. But you have to be able to move the ball so that your defense can rest and get some coaching between series, and also force Oregon to play a longer field.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 07/09/14, 09:47 am

Regarding the offense and Oregon's defensive adjustments. Excerpt from Comp's article.

Comp wrote:But the Spartan run game was about to abandon Cook. And so was his defense. And Oregon was in the process of throwing new coverages at him, making him hesitant.

On the first play of this pivotal drive, MSU called for all five offensive linemen to cut block the Oregon d-linemen. It's a tactic used years ago by Joe Tiller's Purdue. Cut their legs, slow them down for an instant and it will take a toll on wheels later in the game.

Cut-blocking pass protection is designed to keep the d-linemen off the QB for less time than ordinary pass protection. But Cook held the ball. And held the ball. The Oregon d-linemen who had been cut-blocked to the ground, got up, and proceeded unimpeded to Cook for a sack.

That pass was supposed to be delivered quickly. But Cook didn't throw it, didn't even chuck it out of bounds. Why? Because Oregon had shown him a coverage he didn't expect, a coverage they hadn't shown on film.

It was not a freak coverage. It was simple cover-two. Iowa runs it all the time. But MSU hadn't anticipated seeing Oregon do it. And when Oregon sprung it on the Spartans, it was enough of a curveball to cause MSU's offense to pause and backfire a couple of times. And it planted a seed of doubt in Cook's head, that there were more puzzles at play than anticipated.

"They went a lot more cover-two in the second half," Cook said. "There were a lot more middle-field-closed cover-three (and) cover-four in the first half, but they adjusted and went more cover-two in the second half and that kind of made things a little difficult for us."

Cook bailed out that drive with a 17-yard pass to Tony Lippett on a deep comeback route. That was against a bailing cover-four, more typical of what Oregon had played in the first half, and typical of what MSU had prepared for.

But that was one of the last feel-good moments of the day for Michigan State.

On the next snap, MSU ran a draw play out of the shot gun against an eight-in-the-box cover-three. With eight in the box, a delayed handoff had no chance. Jeremy Langford was stopped for no gain. Could Cook have gotten MSU out of that bad play earlier? Was it too loud to try an audible? Did he see the safety come down into the box too late?

It's hard to say, but MSU was headed toward another third-and-long, a situation the Spartans faced way too many times in this game.

by **Blanch32** 07/09/14, 10:59 am

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I agree with everything you said about the Defense. I am not gonna quite give us credit for 3 ypc on offense, but I digress...I was harping on this in the chat, and probably annoying people. But I wouldn't mind your take on it. You're a defensive guy, right?What kind of adjustments did Oregon make in the 2nd half? Seemed like initially they came out dropping into dimes and even 7 man zones after 1st down, but then it seemed they were playing tight on our WRs and not letting Cook pick his way down the field. Cook and Warner seemed completely befuddled for the majority of the 2nd half. Seemed like we got a bit outcoached there. Agree?I'm not trying to blame anyone - Warner and Co have been great for us. Just seemed like the Ducks were able to adjust and we were completely confused.

Which was the exact opposite of my prediction. Was positive we'd be the ones making the right adjustments

by **Frank Ricard** 07/09/14, 11:03 am

The score wasn't indicative of the game. We had a chance, even as late as 5 minutes to go. But we have to give props for the interception the CB of Oregon made. That was a tremendous play and it was game over. We score there and it's still anyone's game.

When we made our run, we had stopped them 3 and out 3 times in a row and followed it with giving up just 1 1st down, then they punted. We also had good pressure on the QB, but he was one tough SOB to tackle. He was as tough to tackle as a Braxton Miller, only Mariota is more accurate. He was impressive.

Oregon is truly one of the best 4 teams in the country. We hung with them and even dominated them for half the game. But there's no shame in losing on the road to this team. 19 points was not the actual final. It felt like about a 10 point loss. A 10 point loss to a very good team that can beat anyone in the country.

The B1G sucks, but we're the best team in the conference. We still should be a Top 10 team when it's all said and done.

by Herbie Green 07/09/14, 11:37 am

Cook needed to get that screen to the FB. Mariotta did on the next series. A couple of blown plays by the defense and that is all she wrote as the offense was inept 2nd half.
Nobody is likely surprised that Oregon made some big plays, but what they also did was physically dominate MSU in the 2nd half on defense. If their defense is really that good they will be tough to beat.
But I wonder how much of that had to do with the heat. Not really a valid excuse because it was an issue for both teams. But Oregon found extra edge with home crowd and momentum. MSU looked like they lost some drive on Oline and then lapses of focus on D. It seems as likely that MSU was just spent as Oregon was able to flip the switch and become a more physical team in the middle of a game

by **Turtleneck** 07/09/14, 11:49 am

Herbie Green wrote:Cook needed to get that screen to the FB. Mariotta did on the next series. A couple of blown plays by the defense and that is all she wrote as the offense was inept 2nd half.
Nobody is likely surprised that Oregon made some big plays, but what they also did was physically dominate MSU in the 2nd half on defense. If their defense is really that good they will be tough to beat.
But I wonder how much of that had to do with the heat. Not really a valid excuse because it was an issue for both teams. But Oregon found extra edge with home crowd and momentum. MSU looked like they lost some drive on Oline and then lapses of focus on D. It seems as likely that MSU was just spent as Oregon was able to flip the switch and become a more physical team in the middle of a game

Heat? Try the crown of the field. It killed the O in the second half.

by **Mentalstate** 07/09/14, 12:27 pm

Yeah, as pointed out above, for the shit show we ran on O almost the entire second half, our O nearly delivered on two straight drives, with the D getting the stop needed to give the O another shot after the first failed drive. The 4th down miss, and the crazy INT...game of inches, we are guaranteed a score on one of those drives if we only have that tip go a few inches farther, or Langford gets about 4 more inches on the run. Tough game.

One thing to keep in mind, we dominated their run game. They got around 73 of the 173 on the ground on the last drive, when we were gassed and killed mentally. This D is a lot better than the stats showed.

And against every other QB we face this year, that's a 10-sack game. As is, we still got him, 4+ times and were mashing through what is the best OL we'll face all season.

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