Two things that degrade quality of life: The state and the market
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Two things that degrade quality of life: The state and the market
Today, David Brooks made an observation that many have been making for quite some time: The way the state and the market rationalize society is a bad thing. They socialize us think and act instrumentally and incentivize selfishness. Self-interest can exist within any community. In fact, self-interest is often tied to community well-being. However, selfishness is the extreme of self-interest and we now live in a less cooperative, less trustworthy, and overall more harmful society. Part of the problem is that this country was founded on the idea that people, by way of human nature, are selfish and that we could use that selfishness against itself. That has not worked and now altruism is disappearing and it is being replaced by greed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/opinion/the-power-of-altruism.html?_r=0
Since then, the institutions that arouse the moral lens have withered while the institutions that manipulate incentives — the market and the state — have expanded. Now economic, utilitarian thinking has become the normal way we do social analysis and see the world. We’ve wound up with a society that is less cooperative, less trusting, less effective and less lovely.
By assuming that people are selfish, by prioritizing arrangements based on selfishness, we have encouraged selfish frames of mind. Maybe it’s time to upend classical economics and political science. Maybe it’s time to build institutions that harness people’s natural longing to do good.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/opinion/the-power-of-altruism.html?_r=0
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: Two things that degrade quality of life: The state and the market
Well, that was deep. I think I understood most of that, but building "institutions that harness people’s natural longing to do good" sounds like a pipe dream.
Floyd Robertson- Geronte
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Location : Rolling Hills Alcoholic Rehabilitation Center: Where They Don't Beat You or Anything
Re: Two things that degrade quality of life: The state and the market
building "institutions that harness people’s natural longing to do good" sounds like a pipe dream.
Perpetual economic growth is neither possible nor desirable. Growth, especially in wealthy nations, is already causing more problems than it solves.
http://steadystate.org/
Rocinante- Geronte
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Join date : 2014-04-21
Location : East Lansing, MI
Re: Two things that degrade quality of life: The state and the market
I think the existence of both is the problem.
Really, isn't the market just a natural system of trade? If I'm pretty sweet at creating trusses for houses and you're pretty good at building geothermal greenhouses and we decide that one of us will do one for the other and vice versa.... that's kinda the market, no?
The problem, as I see it of course... is that the state always wants to engineer the market thinking they can make it work the way they want it to... but they end up screwing it up because all people really want to do is do their thing without some jackass in a suit who's entire existence is predicated on telling others what to do. So the state adds currency and requires you to use it, mainly so they have a way of taking a cut of every transaction even though they had fuck all to do with the transaction and well... here we are. If I could just build you some trusses and you build me a nifty greenhouse... there's not much of a way for the local chieftains to take what they feel you both owe them for the transaction taking place.
It's a simplistic way of looking at it but I really don't think it needs to be complicated.
Am I off base? I know I didn't read the article (as usual)... so I'm probably not even in the ballpark and am just looking foolish. I get a little anxious and just want to start talking.
Really, isn't the market just a natural system of trade? If I'm pretty sweet at creating trusses for houses and you're pretty good at building geothermal greenhouses and we decide that one of us will do one for the other and vice versa.... that's kinda the market, no?
The problem, as I see it of course... is that the state always wants to engineer the market thinking they can make it work the way they want it to... but they end up screwing it up because all people really want to do is do their thing without some jackass in a suit who's entire existence is predicated on telling others what to do. So the state adds currency and requires you to use it, mainly so they have a way of taking a cut of every transaction even though they had fuck all to do with the transaction and well... here we are. If I could just build you some trusses and you build me a nifty greenhouse... there's not much of a way for the local chieftains to take what they feel you both owe them for the transaction taking place.
It's a simplistic way of looking at it but I really don't think it needs to be complicated.
Am I off base? I know I didn't read the article (as usual)... so I'm probably not even in the ballpark and am just looking foolish. I get a little anxious and just want to start talking.
xsanguine- Geronte
- Posts : 9838
Join date : 2014-04-23
Location : Hijackin' Threads
Re: Two things that degrade quality of life: The state and the market
Yeah, I shoulda read the article because it was more involved than I assumed.... but hell, maybe I got lucky and it can work out somehow.
Oh yeah... that's what my entire point was.... the market is just people helping people. Like handjobs at truck stops. People helping people.
Oh yeah... that's what my entire point was.... the market is just people helping people. Like handjobs at truck stops. People helping people.
xsanguine- Geronte
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Join date : 2014-04-23
Location : Hijackin' Threads
Re: Two things that degrade quality of life: The state and the market
Turtleneck wrote:Today, David Brooks made an observation that many have been making for quite some time: The way the state and the market rationalize society is a bad thing. They socialize us think and act instrumentally and incentivize selfishness. Self-interest can exist within any community. In fact, self-interest is often tied to community well-being. However, selfishness is the extreme of self-interest and we now live in a less cooperative, less trustworthy, and overall more harmful society. Part of the problem is that this country was founded on the idea that people, by way of human nature, are selfish and that we could use that selfishness against itself. That has not worked and now altruism is disappearing and it is being replaced by greed.Since then, the institutions that arouse the moral lens have withered while the institutions that manipulate incentives — the market and the state — have expanded. Now economic, utilitarian thinking has become the normal way we do social analysis and see the world. We’ve wound up with a society that is less cooperative, less trusting, less effective and less lovely.
By assuming that people are selfish, by prioritizing arrangements based on selfishness, we have encouraged selfish frames of mind. Maybe it’s time to upend classical economics and political science. Maybe it’s time to build institutions that harness people’s natural longing to do good.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/opinion/the-power-of-altruism.html?_r=0
So the "greed is good" line is a lie?
DWags- Geronte
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Age : 62
Location : Right here
Re: Two things that degrade quality of life: The state and the market
LooseGoose wrote:I love you all.
I love you too, Goose. I mean that.
xsanguine- Geronte
- Posts : 9838
Join date : 2014-04-23
Location : Hijackin' Threads
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