Serious Question about Obama/#LIBS

As someone who doesn't party identify, I have this question.

It seems to me that the party divide in this country has increased to an absurd level. Not going to opine on where that has led us, but for the politically uninformed, why? What has happened during Obama's tenure that has angered so much of the country? Is it ACA? More than that? Seems to like right now, there is so much hatred flowing around that the right just wants to fuck over Obama's legacy. I'm a guy that appreciates charisma on a talk show more than political action, but fuck, I find Barry pretty goddamned likable. What's the deal? Is it because he faked his birth certificate? Or because he's secretly an Iranian National? Or maybe he's a shape shifter lizard person? Please enlighten.

I'm definitely drunk. But this perplexes me. What is the cause of all of this anger and rebellion from the right? I don't get it.

It's because he's not on their team wbh. That's all there is to it. He's the other side so they need to hate him as much as possible. Same reason we hate (insert name of relatively likable Michigan player here.) it literally does not matter what he says. I bet he could read off the Republican Party platform verbatim and guys like lws or the dude would say "what a fucking idiot!!! lolz"

Also he's black, which probably causes problems for a few of them by itself.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:It's because he's not on their team wbh. That's all there is to it. He's the other side so they need to hate him as much as possible. Same reason we hate (insert name of relatively likable Michigan player here.) it literally does not matter what he says. I bet he could read off the Republican Party platform verbatim and guys like lws or the dude would say "what a fucking idiot!!! lolz"

Also he's black, which probably causes problems for a few of them by itself.

It is more complex than that, Travis. While there has always been a partisan divide, it seems the current divide is accompanied by a high degree of social distrust. Overall, its seems to more personal and more emotional than it has in the recent past.

http://www.people-press.org/2014/06/12/political-polarization-in-the-american-public/

They took er jobs

Overall, it is complex and multi-causal. But we better get it figured out. Probably best to read these in order.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/world/americas/western-liberal-democracy.html?smid=fb-share

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/02/this-extremely-scary-chart-about-the-future-of-democracy-is-pretty-misleading/?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.e662309e11a8

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/08/yes-millennials-really-are-surprisingly-approving-of-dictators/?utm_term=.30491a34d907

Turtleneck wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:It's because he's not on their team wbh. That's all there is to it. He's the other side so they need to hate him as much as possible. Same reason we hate (insert name of relatively likable Michigan player here.) it literally does not matter what he says. I bet he could read off the Republican Party platform verbatim and guys like lws or the dude would say "what a fucking idiot!!! lolz"

Also he's black, which probably causes problems for a few of them by itself.

It is more complex than that, Travis. While there has always been a partisan divide, it seems the current divide is accompanied by a high degree of social distrust. Overall, its seems to more personal and more emotional than it has in the recent past.

You know, I don't think it's really that much more complex than what I said. The one thing that gets ignored in all of these conversations is just how much technological advances have changed the game. Like having unlimited options with which to become informed in the news instead of just one relatively impartial one.

So, let's say my name is, oh I don't know.... Les.... and I'm from the Midwest. I don't like abortion, cause I'm a good Christian soldier. So I'm a republican cause my family or pastor or whoever said that that gives me a better chance of going to heaven.

I'm going to watch the news so I can vote later this month for the absolute best candidate! So I try watching CNN. But it turns out that they presented things that challenge my opinion. I don't like that. But my buddy, Roose, told me about this station Fox News. They tell me all the things I like to hear with none of the downside! Now I'm informed! And hey, they mentioned this site, breetbarf or something. Maybe that will help me get more informed. Oh man... now that I do that, obama is an awful piece of shit that I literally hate! He's the worst! I'm SO informed!!!

This is where we get into "he's the other side so I hate him and that's all there is to it." Because the sources you're reading are only allowing for that. Of course you hate obama. That's all you've heard for 2-8 years.

It works the same for the other side, and it's not that MSNBC is more correct.... but I think that conservatives in this country are more easily persuaded by memes and simple talking points. Not to say that some liberals aren't... but I think that polls that point to uneducated people leading the charge for a guy like trump shouldn't be ignored. There's a reason they were whipped into a frenzy, and it's not a complicated one (honestly, smarmy asshole comment, but it's not because it's a tough concept to understand. These are people with a high school degree were talking about.)

Personally, it's ACA.  Aside from that, I really don't have a problem with the guy and applaud what he's tried to do on the social front.

I actually applaud what the ACA tries to accomplish, but many parts of the implementation are either flawed or when left to the heavy-handed bureaucrats at CMS have basically screwed health care providers by mandating the use of EHR systems and now the implementation of MACRA.  The burden of those two facets is mind-blowingly burdensome.

It should also be renamed to CA, because for a huge swath of Americans there's no Affordable about it, when they're asked to pay $6,000 a year for healthcare and get nothing more out of it than an annual check up.

I don't like how drones strikes have increased under his admin. Don't follow this shit enough to say that's what time has called for or if it's Obama

The evening of the day President Obama was sworn in in 2009 members of the GOP leadership were already meeting puttng together plans to make sure he was a one term President.  

What we are seeing now is some of the same people want to eliminate everything they objected to 8 years ago.  This stuff has been brewing for years.  Trump's election along with the GOP majority control of legislative branch has put their 2009 agenda in the express lane.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-republicans-plan-for-the-new-president/

GRR Spartan wrote:The evening of the President Obama was being sworn in in 2009 members of the GOP leadership were already meeting puttng together plans to make sure he was a one term President.  

What we are seeing now is some of the same people want to eliminate everything they objected to 8 years ago.  This stuff has been brewing for years.  Trump's election along with the GOP majority control of legislative branch has put their 2009 agenda in the express lane.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-republicans-plan-for-the-new-president/

And if the democrats aren't doing the very same thing right now then they need new leadership.  Except they still have Pelosi as house (now minority) leader, so who knows.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:It's because he's not on their team wbh. That's all there is to it. He's the other side so they need to hate him as much as possible. Same reason we hate (insert name of relatively likable Michigan player here.) it literally does not matter what he says. I bet he could read off the Republican Party platform verbatim and guys like lws or the dude would say "what a fucking idiot!!! lolz"

Also he's black, which probably causes problems for a few of them by itself.

lol - again a one sided look at it. Tell me more about how much the Dems loved Bush? They made it very personal with him. John Lewis said he wasn't a "legitimate" President....just as he said about Trump this week. Dems are sore losers and have been for 20 years, because of that they've made things way more personal than they used to be.

And all the racial healing under Obama? Do you think this survey is all R's?

WBH, the 2010 ramrodding through of Obamacare left a bad taste. Polls were against the bill. Scott Brown won his senate seat in Massachusetts largely as a referendum on Obamacare. If you doubt that, it was Ted Kennedy's seat!!

Despite all that, Harry Reid invoked the nuclear option to get Obamacare through. The fall out since has been obvious. Republicans taking both houses. Obama was reelected, but without the majorities he had in 2009 when he took office.

That is the main reason. On top of his gross overreach with executive orders.

So yes, many of us opposed to him on political grounds are anxious to see much of that reversed.

But I agree with you, he is likable. I think he and I would get along personally. Many of my friends are liberals. Politics are part of life, not the entirety of life. You and tTy are friends, yet you disagree vehemently politically.

The Democrats didn't having organized meetings with legislators, think tanks etc meeting the first day of Bush2's Presidency.

The Democrats voted for starting the new Dept of Homeland Security. 21 Democrats voted to confirm Justice Roberts. 15 voted to confirm Justice Alito.

Yeah but seems to be ruling the day with some. There was never a coordinated, organized group like met in Jan 2009 before. Many of the same players are still in Congress and at those interest groups 8 years later.

They didn't like Obama then and sure as hell don't like him any more now.

LooseGoose wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:It's because he's not on their team wbh. That's all there is to it. He's the other side so they need to hate him as much as possible. Same reason we hate (insert name of relatively likable Michigan player here.) it literally does not matter what he says. I bet he could read off the Republican Party platform verbatim and guys like lws or the dude would say "what a fucking idiot!!! lolz"

Also he's black, which probably causes problems for a few of them by itself.

lol - again a one sided look at it. Tell me more about how much the Dems loved Bush? They made it very personal with him. John Lewis said he wasn't a "legitimate" President....just as he said about Trump this week. Dems are sore losers and have been for 20 years, because of that they've made things way more personal than they used to be.

And all the racial healing under Obama? Do you think this survey is all R's?

goose - do you really think one side are more "sore losers" than the other? like sincerely believe that? I know you don't enjoy answering these questions and usually skip past them but come on fuck with me a little here.

also: to compare 2009 and 2016 with that very short sighted poll/photo is just a trainwreck. aren't you the guy always touting violence/crime etc is down? do you really think that shows how race relations truly are? or do you think the 24/7 news cycle/social media/fake news plays a part in it?

just trying to get you to critically think about things, rather than exclusively in your side's political prism. take it as you wish.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Loose

Goose wrote:

lol - again a one sided look at it. Tell me more about how much the Dems loved Bush? They made it very personal with him. John Lewis said he wasn't a "legitimate" President....just as he said about Trump this week. Dems are sore losers and have been for 20 years, because of that they've made things way more personal than they used to be.

And all the racial healing under Obama? Do you think this survey is all R's?

goose - do you really think one side are more "sore losers" than the other? like sincerely believe that? I know you don't enjoy answering these questions and usually skip past them but come on fuck with me a little here.

also: to compare 2009 and 2016 with that very short sighted poll/photo is just a trainwreck. aren't you the guy always touting violence/crime etc is down? do you really think that shows how race relations truly are? or do you think the 24/7 news cycle/social media/fake news plays a part in it?

just trying to get you to critically think about things, rather than exclusively in your side's political prism. take it as you wish.

Comparing 09 to 16 is like comparing a ripple in the water to a tsunami. Yeah in 09 you had conservative radio, a few guests on news stations, a lot of people with no real audience questioning Obama's legitimacy. '17 You have entire news organizations, almost all of Hollywood, tech CEOs, half of the Democrats in Congress, ie lots of people with audiences listening to them questioning Trump's legitimacy.

It's night and day.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:goose - do you really think one side are more "sore losers" than the other? like sincerely believe that? I know you don't enjoy answering these questions and usually skip past them but come on fuck with me a little here.

Yes, I do. R's didn't act like this when Bill Clinton won twice and they didn't act like this when Obama won twice. All of this "not a legitimate" President crap is designed to divide America or to keep it divided. If you dispute this, I'll ask for links rather than "yes they did".

What is the purpose other than 2 things - 1 is to weaken Trump which I can understand from a political basis. I don't know that it's best for the nation. 2 - to keep their base fired up that somehow the Russians stole this election. Again that's not what's best for the country but I don't think they care.

A secondary thing it does is convince the "deplorables" that even when they DO win an election with a candidate of their choice that the elites will work their asses off to make fun of and de-legitimatize their candidate.

Don't think Dems believe Russians stole the election? Former Clinton spokesman: New developments ‘call into question the legitimacy’ of Trump’s win

And the thing is they will NEVER let go of it. Much like Bush winning Florida in 2000 - EVERY analysis shows he won fair and square and nearly 20 years later a significant % of Dems still believe the FAKE NEWS that Gore won and Bush/TheSupremeCourt stole the election.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:also: to compare 2009 and 2016 with that very short sighted poll/photo is just a trainwreck. aren't you the guy always touting violence/crime etc is down? do you really think that shows how race relations truly are? or do you think the 24/7 news cycle/social media/fake news plays a part in it?

just trying to get you to critically think about things, rather than exclusively in your side's political prism. take it as you wish.

I think Obama has divided the country, that has very little or nothing to do with crime being down. I think one on one race relations are better - I think group dynamics are worse. Does that make sense to you?

And as far as the news playing a role in it - you don't really need to ask that do you? If so, I'll refresh your memory - "Hands up, Don't shoot" - ALL Bullshit that caused riots and deaths across the country. Spread by the media.

TheReal_LWS wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

goose - do you really think one side are more "sore losers" than the other? like sincerely believe that? I know you don't enjoy answering these questions and usually skip past them but come on fuck with me a little here.

also: to compare 2009 and 2016 with that very short sighted poll/photo is just a trainwreck. aren't you the guy always touting violence/crime etc is down? do you really think that shows how race relations truly are? or do you think the 24/7 news cycle/social media/fake news plays a part in it?

just trying to get you to critically think about things, rather than exclusively in your side's political prism. take it as you wish.

Comparing 09 to 16 is like comparing a ripple in the water to a tsunami. Yeah in 09 you had conservative radio, a few guests on news stations, a lot of people with no real audience questioning Obama's legitimacy. '17 You have entire news organizations, almost all of Hollywood, tech CEOs, half of the Democrats in Congress, ie lots of people with audiences listening to them questioning Trump's legitimacy.

It's night and day.

I'm glad you actually put together a post with some thoughts not on a bumper sticker but your reply really has nothing to do with my point re race relations. But still - props LWS. Progress.

LooseGoose wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:goose - do you really think one side are more "sore losers" than the other? like sincerely believe that? I know you don't enjoy answering these questions and usually skip past them but come on fuck with me a little here.

Yes, I do. R's didn't act like this when Bill Clinton won twice and they didn't act like this when Obama won twice. All of this "not a legitimate" President crap is designed to divide America or to keep it divided. If you dispute this, I'll ask for links rather than "yes they did".

What is the purpose other than 2 things - 1 is to weaken Trump which I can understand from a political basis. I don't know that it's best for the nation. 2 - to keep their base fired up that somehow the Russians stole this election. Again that's not what's best for the country but I don't think they care.

A secondary thing it does is convince the "deplorables" that even when they DO win an election with a candidate of their choice that the elites will work their asses off to make fun of and de-legitimatize their candidate.

Don't think Dems believe Russians stole the election? Former Clinton spokesman: New developments ‘call into question the legitimacy’ of Trump’s win

And the thing is they will NEVER let go of it. Much like Bush winning Florida in 2000 - EVERY analysis shows he won fair and square and nearly 20 years later a significant % of Dems still believe the FAKE NEWS that Gore won and Bush/TheSupremeCourt stole the election.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:also: to compare 2009 and 2016 with that very short sighted poll/photo is just a trainwreck. aren't you the guy always touting violence/crime etc is down? do you really think that shows how race relations truly are? or do you think the 24/7 news cycle/social media/fake news plays a part in it?

just trying to get you to critically think about things, rather than exclusively in your side's political prism. take it as you wish.

I think Obama has divided the country, that has very little or nothing to do with crime being down. I think one on one race relations are better - I think group dynamics are worse. Does that make sense to you?

And as far as the news playing a role in it - you don't really need to ask that do you? If so, I'll refresh your memory - "Hands up, Don't shoot" - ALL Bullshit that caused riots and deaths across the country. Spread by the media.

So your 2nd paragraph... you agree with me ... cool. The media controls the sheep and obviously can make race relations seem way worse than they really are. Perception is reality.

DWags wrote:The pubs main goal in 2008 was to impede Obama. That was it. Fuck them. The guy carrying their flag was the birther umber one trying to deligitimize his presidency. Fuck that piece of shit. The dems are doing some of the same bullshit. Fuck them.

Oh and all you guys defending one side, you're part of the problem. We will never rise above this. Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan are shaking their heads at how pathetic we are.

Fuck us.

Not us wags. Don't group me in with the sheep please. People are getting smarter. It'll take time but we will have to deal with the shit in the meantime.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

DWags wrote:The pubs main goal in 2008 was to impede Obama. That was it. Fuck them. The guy carrying their flag was the birther umber one trying to deligitimize his presidency. Fuck that piece of shit. The dems are doing some of the same bullshit. Fuck them.

Oh and all you guys defending one side, you're part of the problem. We will never rise above this. Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan are shaking their heads at how pathetic we are.

Fuck us.

Not us wags. Don't group me in with the sheep please. People are getting smarter. It'll take time but we will have to deal with the shit in the meantime.

Doesn't matter if people are getting smarter if they don't vote. Look at Texas and the gerrymandering with Austin. That's done on purpose to make sure no matter what, a Democrat will never have a voice in Congress for that area.

InTenSity wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Not us wags. Don't group me in with the sheep please. People are getting smarter. It'll take time but we will have to deal with the shit in the meantime.

Doesn't matter if people are getting smarter if they don't vote. Look at Texas and the gerrymandering with Austin. That's done on purpose to make sure no matter what, a Democrat will never have a voice in Congress for that area.

I think as people become smarter we will see better turn out. (What does history say about that goose? True or false?) But that's not to say it's going to be a direct correlation. There are a lot of factors that come into play regarding why people don't vote. Like how broken the current fucking system is.

Me either DWags.

I was responding to what led to this current rancor and pointed to a specific point in time than political scientists point to as a seminal moment in GOP strategy to block Pesident Obama.

Speaker John Boehner retired because he got too much heat from his own party for even meeting with President Obama.

There was a time Congressmen and Senators would socialize and have friendships on the other side of the aisle. Today a lot of GOP members see any meetings to compromise on legislation as something someone who wants their job will seize on as a sign of weakness.

DWags wrote:The pubs main goal in 2008 was to impede Obama. That was it. Fuck them. The guy carrying their flag was the birther umber one trying to deligitimize his presidency. Fuck that piece of shit. The dems are doing some of the same bullshit. Fuck them. .

Once again this post and the Dems conveniently omit who birther #1 really was. Hillary Clinton aide and general all around scum Sid Blumenthal was peddling the Kenyan birth theory during the Primaries in 2008. HE is the TRUE birther #1.

GRR Spartan wrote:There was a time Congressmen and Senators would socialize and have friendships on the other side of the aisle. Today a lot of GOP members see any meetings to compromise on legislation as something someone who wants their job will seize on as a sign of weakness.

So you only mention GOP. Dems don't see it that way?


Delusional.

InTenSity wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Not us wags. Don't group me in with the sheep please. People are getting smarter. It'll take time but we will have to deal with the shit in the meantime.

Doesn't matter if people are getting smarter if they don't vote. Look at Texas and the gerrymandering with Austin. That's done on purpose to make sure no matter what, a Democrat will never have a voice in Congress for that area.

Actually that is pretty smart!

LooseGoose wrote:

DWags wrote:The pubs main goal in 2008 was to impede Obama. That was it. Fuck them. The guy carrying their flag was the birther umber one trying to deligitimize his presidency. Fuck that piece of shit. The dems are doing some of the same bullshit. Fuck them. .

Once again this post and the Dems conveniently omit who birther #1 really was. Hillary Clinton aide and general all around scum Sid Blumenthal was peddling the Kenyan birth theory during the Primaries in 2008. HE is the TRUE birther #1.

Wags has already shown his true far left wing whacko colors. He tries to save credibility by feigning moderation.

GRR doesn't try to feign anything. And though i find his world view appalling, he is at least honest.

OTPT is too dumb to really care about anything but the next rage.

I think you just have to be an objective observer and read some of the replies in this thread to get a sense of why.

xsanguine wrote:I think you just have to be an objective observer and read some of the replies in this thread to get a sense of why.

Probably this

LooseGoose wrote:

GRR Spartan wrote:There was a time Congressmen and Senators would socialize and have friendships on the other side of the aisle.  Today a lot of GOP members see any meetings to compromise on legislation as something someone who wants their job will seize on as a sign of weakness.

So you only mention GOP.  Dems don't see it that way?


Delusional.

I was posting about the history.  Proven history of the GOP's organized, planning meeting to damage Obama's Presidency so badly he'd be a one term President.

Want to start delusional shit?

Channeling your inner Kelly Ann Conway or getting ready to make more excuses for your candidate selling out to the Russians.

I think we have a Manchurian canddate going to be sworn in next week.  Putin's  bestie s going to be sworn in and former General O'Brien called Russians 5 times the day sanctions were announced.

But what the hell, You're happy no woman will have a choice whether to have an abortion and if it doesn't hurt you in Mio it doesn't matter.

I can't figure out why you are still playing the victim.  
You and your "conservative" friends have run the table.
Dissent isn't allowed?  Good enough for you but not others?

You got nothing to complain about.  None of your fellow Trumpites see anything wrong with Trump's campaigns relationships wih Russia and if it isn't in Drdge or FoxNews its fake news. Just like the 3059 counties that voted for Trump like you posted.

Thanks for the honest replies.

I know some doubt my claims because I've clearly shown that I'm not digging where the new guy is going, but I really try to look at things without party involvement. It is just literally staggering to me that people can overlook the way this guy is acting and the things he's doing before he even takes office because they are so pissed off at Obama. And I guess I wondered why.

That is kinda what this whole thing boils down to as I observe it. Dramatic pause. It's all people digging in along party lines, and more directly, their personal ballot. As DT said during his campaign, (paraphrasing) he could literally do whatever he wanted, and his supporters would still vote for him. Same thing now. He could probably go out killing hobos tomorrow and every single person that voted for him would still have his back and decry Obama, blame Hillary, etc.

Going to be funny (at first) and then annoying how every single blunder this guy makes (and I personally think there are going to be a lot of very large ones, given the evidence) will be skewered and panicked over by a lot of folks (legitimate or not), and then completely dismissed (legitimate or not) by the other folks. I know it's always that way to a degree but this is gonna go to hyper level because this guy....is very different than any other politicians we have ever dealt with.

DWags wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Once again this post and the Dems conveniently omit who birther #1 really was.   Hillary Clinton aide and general all around scum Sid Blumenthal was peddling the Kenyan birth theory during the Primaries in 2008.  HE is the TRUE birther #1.  

Sorry Goose, you and guys like you will seek to divide this country further and further.   I just can't respect hyour politics or your blindness to one thing.  It's always "they did it" or "They did it first".  

I'll agree that HRC the scumbag did it.  Trump improved on it and double downed.  Fuck them both and now fuck the democrats and guys like John Lewis for trying to make his presidency illegitimate.   John Lewis, Ted Cruz, you, Bee, Bob, our racist here,  you guys and your attitude prevails in this country, we won't recover from it.  I don't think you are capable of ever being reasonable in politics, but your ilk have seized the American consciousness and the attitude is very prevalent.   You and Bob can't stop yourselves, and you have no interest in doing it.  

This is one of the best posts I've ever read on this board. No sarcasm.

No question that DJT should have relinquished the keys to his Twitter on November 9, 2016. His shitposting was out of control then and it's absolutely gotten worse.

GRR Spartan wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

So you only mention GOP.  Dems don't see it that way?


Delusional.

I was posting about the history.  Proven history of the GOP's organized, planning meeting to damage Obama's Presidency so badly he'd be a one term President.

Want to start delusional shit?

Channeling your inner Kelly Ann Conway or getting ready to make more excuses for your candidate selling out to the Russians.

I think we have a Manchurian canddate going to be sworn in next week.  Putin's  bestie s going to be sworn in and former General O'Brien called Russians 5 times the day sanctions were announced.

But what the hell, You're happy no woman will have a choice whether to have an abortion and if it doesn't hurt you in Mio it doesn't matter.

I can't figure out why you are still playing the victim.  
You and your "conservative" friends have run the table.
Dissent isn't allowed?  Good enough for you but not others?

You got nothing to complain about.  None of your fellow Trumpites see anything wrong with Trump's campaigns relationships wih Russia and if it isn't in Drdge or FoxNews its fake news. Just like the 3059 counties that voted for Trump like you posted.

Dude, you might need medication.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Thanks for the honest replies.

I know some doubt my claims because I've clearly shown that I'm not digging where the new guy is going, but I really try to look at things without party involvement. It is just literally staggering to me that people can overlook the way this guy is acting and the things he's doing before he even takes office because they are so pissed off at Obama. And I guess I wondered why.

That is kinda what this whole thing boils down to as I observe it. Dramatic pause. It's all people digging in along party lines, and more directly, their personal ballot. As DT said during his campaign, (paraphrasing) he could literally do whatever he wanted, and his supporters would still vote for him. Same thing now. He could probably go out killing hobos tomorrow and every single person that voted for him would still have his back and decry Obama, blame Hillary, etc.

Going to be funny (at first) and then annoying how every single blunder this guy makes (and I personally think there are going to be a lot of very large ones, given the evidence) will be skewered and panicked over by a lot of folks (legitimate or not), and then completely dismissed (legitimate or not) by the other folks. I know it's always that way to a degree but this is gonna go to hyper level because this guy....is very different than any other politicians we have ever dealt with.

"this guy....is very different than any other politicians we have ever dealt with."

This is why he won. People are tired of Washington politics as usual. Obama largely won for the same reason, abs turned out to be the epitome of Washington politics.

You are declaring Trump's failure before he's even sworn. That's the exact behavior your seem to be chastising. Sorry to question your motives for posting this thread, but it seems that is all you were doing, trying to get another dig in at Trump and those that voted for him.

It's good to see Talladega College's band is going to play at the inauguration.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:As someone who doesn't party identify, I have this question.

It seems to me that the party divide in this country has increased to an absurd level. Not going to opine on where that has led us, but for the politically uninformed, why? What has happened during Obama's tenure that has angered so much of the country? Is it ACA? More than that? Seems to like right now, there is so much hatred flowing around that the right just wants to fuck over Obama's legacy. I'm a guy that appreciates charisma on a talk show more than political action, but fuck, I find Barry pretty goddamned likable. What's the deal? Is it because he faked his birth certificate? Or because he's secretly an Iranian National? Or maybe he's a shape shifter lizard person? Please enlighten.

I'm definitely drunk. But this perplexes me. What is the cause of all of this anger and rebellion from the right? I don't get it.

A pretty good longer read on the great divide....I don't agree with this 100% but he does make a lot of good points. I know he used to write for National Review, now lives in rural central CA on the family farm.

Trump and the American Divide - How a lifelong New Yorker became tribune of the rustics and deplorables

I am not declaring him a failure actually. I really hope he's about more than what he has shown thus far. I really hope his use of Twitter for example is some kind of distraction ploy. I really hope he's not as thin skinned as he appears.

I do get that people wanted something different. I do get the drain the swamp. Hell I agree with it. My contention (pre election) was that I'm all for getting away from mainstream politics, but he was not in any way (IMO) savvy or prepared enough to lead that movement. I said before I could have gotten behind Rand Paul on that front, despite the fact that I disagree personally with a lot of his stances. I think I probably still would have taken that leap. Polished dude with some experience, who wants to shake shit up. Shit needs to be shaken.

My thing is Trump is fucking lunatic. Floyd gets it. Again I hope it's a ploy. I do wonder why people don't see that. Do they think, as I hoped above, that it's all a ploy? Do they back it?

So question for LWS. Loose. Death Roe.

Do you think Trump comes across as a sane person on Twitter? Do you back his use of Twitter? If it were your Dad tweeting the things that he does, would you find that embarrassing?

Follow up. Do you think the Twitter thing is a ploy/distraction?

My point isn't about Twitter, but I guess it's a microcosm.