Bump When "Radical Islamic Terrorism" is Defeated..

And X, take your pill bro.

Rocinante wrote:I'm not sure I agree that Muslim nations are the source for this kind of extremism. I think there are global and historical factors that also involve the west and hegemony. But regardless, something none of you who are all "Islam is evil" are noticing is the support Muslims in Britain are lending to the recovery efforts and the investigation. It's an important point.  

Edit: for Cam.

Well, what is the source, then? If it's not the ideology itself, and if it's not Muslim-majority nations that enable extremists, then what? And why do such a large percentage of the perpetrators of these heinous acts have ties to Muslim-majority nations?

Did you listen to the Sam Harris podcast X linked in this thread? If not, you ought to. It touches on the fact that terrorists and ISIS would not stop doing what they're doing if the West stopped bombing them. I'm not saying it's not a factor or a useful recruitment tool for them (nor that the West is blameless and has done all the right things), but I don't think it is the primary motivation by any stretch of the imagination.

As for the Muslims that support recovery efforts, good for them. I'm glad. But that doesn't change how I view the religion in total or in any way obviate the need for reform.

Rocinante wrote:And X, take your pill bro.

What'd I say? I like posting as much content as I can find... when I get on a scent I go all in. Message boards are like scrapbooks.

If only the Philippines hadn't been bombing Syria and Iraq...

ISIS takes control of its first city in the Philippines

Chris Tomson wrote:DAMASCUS, SYRIA (8:30 P.M.) – Overnight, heavy clashes erupted in the predominately Sunni city of Marawi in the southern Philippines after security forces and ISIS sleeper cells battled it out for hours on end.

2 soldiers and 1 police officer were killed in the skirmishes although no civilians were injured by crossfire, a military source told Al-Masdar News.

Subsequently, the Philippine Army withdrew from most of the city on Tuesday morning, thereby making it the first city in southeast Asia to come under Islamic State control.

Some 500 ISIS insurgents are said to be present in Marawi. These heavily armed jihadist fighters have taken control of the city center and set up roadblocks in several districts.

In addition, ISIS members have captured the main prison in Marawi and released over a hundred prisoners, many of whom are caliphate sympathisers and may join its ranks.

Dozens of military vehicles and weapons were also captured during the battle although no official confirmation on the events have been issued by Amaq Agency yet.

Amaq Agency recently released a series of images depicting an ISIS training camp at an undisclosed location in southeast Asia, likely near the newly captured Marawi city.

The jihadist takeover was spearheaded by two allied ISIS franchise groups, namely the Maute group and Abu Sayyaf.

UPDATE: Amaq Agency has now confirmed the ISIS assault. Heavy clashes continued overnight on Wednesday as the Philippine Army – led by the 103rd Brigade – tried to retake its lost areas. Meanwhile, ISIS captured the Amai Pakpak Hospital.

What we need right now is tolerance and understanding.

Cam, And I'm not saying that reform isn't needed. And I think it's happening. Look, truth be told, religion in general is fucking dumb. But christians used to burn people at the stake. Like on the regular. We just didn't have the internet back then to spread the news all over the planet. The chances of getting your head cut off by a psycho religious nut are still very low. Give it time, stop bombing and exploiting poor people for murky, money related reasons, and it'll calm down. I mean is there really any chance that ISIS can threaten the US in any meaningful way? We have the most ridiculous military on the planet.

Rocinante wrote:Cam, And I'm not saying that reform isn't needed. And I think it's happening. Look, truth be told, religion in general is fucking dumb. But christians used to burn people at the stake. Like on the regular. We just didn't have the internet back then to spread the news all over the planet. The chances of getting your head cut off by a psycho religious nut are still very low. Give it time, stop bombing and exploiting poor people for murky, money related reasons, and it'll calm down. I mean is there really any chance that ISIS can threaten the US in any meaningful way? We have the most ridiculous military on the planet.

No one was bombing Islamic countries from the 7th century all the way up until Andrew Jackson decided stopping the Trans Saharan slave trade was a good idea for shipping lanes... yet they were still invading Europe (as well as Africa) and mining the coastline for slaves for labor and harems throughout that entire time.

The US certainly needs to get out of bombing people with democracy, absolutely... but like Cam has been saying and Sam Harris explains in that podcast... this isn't about US dominance as much as it's about achieving an ideological destiny.

Rocinante wrote:Cam, And I'm not saying that reform isn't needed. And I think it's happening.  Look, truth be told, religion in general is fucking dumb. But christians used to burn people at the stake. Like on the regular. We just didn't have the internet back then to spread the news all over the planet.  The chances of getting your head cut off by a psycho religious nut are still very low.  Give it time, stop bombing and exploiting poor people for murky, money related reasons, and it'll calm down. I mean is there really any chance that ISIS can threaten the US in any meaningful way?  We have the most ridiculous military on the planet.

I'm not worried about myself or my country, we'll be fine. But I am worried that these groups could get their hands on a nuclear weapon and use it (and even though the chances of them getting it to the US mainland are remote, ISIS or any similar group using a nuke anywhere in the world is something we should all be concerned about). Mutually assured destruction doesn't work when one side is convinced that paradise waits for them after death.

I can get on board with altering our foreign policy in the middle east, I think we could do much better in that regard. But I'm under no delusions that stopping all bombing will solve the problems. It's still the right thing to do to avoid collateral damage as much as possible, but I don't think it would really fix all that much.

I used to be a big believer in Gandhi's total nonviolence approach, and there's certainly merit to it, but I don't think it's the right course of action 100% of the time. I think the only real way to stop many of these extremists from being extremists is to stop them from being. I think any "former extremists" that exist are few and far between. I view extremism as something akin to cancer. You have to stop it spreading, of course, but you also have to cut out the tumor.

I don't know. I think we get to tied up in the terrorism thing.

Rocinante wrote:I don't know. I think we get to tied up in the terrorism thing.

Rocinante wrote:I don't know. I think we get to tied up in the terrorism thing.

That's easy for you to say, and it would be easy for me to agree, because neither of us have really been affected by terrorism very much (I'm assuming that's true for you as it is for me). But terrorism touches many lives, and I think there are a LOT of people in Manchester right now that would not only vehemently disagree, but probably also have some unkind words for you.

xsanguine wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
dude - you gotta admit, calling ISIS "evil losers" is pretty darn funny....

Britain cowering in the shadow of Islam after they've murdered their children is even funnier.

Do we judge nations on twitter idiots now?  Look at all this cowering in fear (this is yesterday's vigil in Manchester, while the terrorism alert was critical and the PM (conservative, fwiw) had said that another attack was imminent.  Oh, look at them cowering.

Cameron wrote:

Rocinante wrote:I don't know. I think we get to tied up in the terrorism thing.

That's easy for you to say, and it would be easy for me to agree, because neither of us have really been affected by terrorism very much (I'm assuming that's true for you as it is for me). But terrorism touches many lives, and I think there are a LOT of people in Manchester right now that would not only vehemently disagree, but probably also have some unkind words for you.

This is the stock response to what I said, yes.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

Britain cowering in the shadow of Islam after they've murdered their children is even funnier.

Do we judge nations on twitter idiots now?  Look at all this cowering in fear (this is yesterday's vigil in Manchester, while the terrorism alert was critical and the PM (conservative, fwiw) had said that another attack was imminent.  Oh, look at them cowering.

I'd expect a protest, not a vigil.

Rocinante wrote:

Cameron wrote:

That's easy for you to say, and it would be easy for me to agree, because neither of us have really been affected by terrorism very much (I'm assuming that's true for you as it is for me). But terrorism touches many lives, and I think there are a LOT of people in Manchester right now that would not only vehemently disagree, but probably also have some unkind words for you.

This is the stock response to what I said, yes.

I'm not sure how to take that, so let me try again:

Considering how you preach the need for compassion and empathy on a range of topics, and in light of recent events, your statement that we get too tied up in terrorism is insensitive bordering on callous.

Let me also say that if we are weighing harms, each and every Muslim in the world getting their feelings hurt is a much lesser problem than a single Muslim extremist blowing himself up and killing innocent children. So let's figure out how to get them to stop killing innocent people, then we'll worry about how to stop hurting their feelings.

xsanguine wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Do we judge nations on twitter idiots now?  Look at all this cowering in fear (this is yesterday's vigil in Manchester, while the terrorism alert was critical and the PM (conservative, fwiw) had said that another attack was imminent.  Oh, look at them cowering.

I'd expect a protest, not a vigil.

You're right. I mean the tragedy was a whole 18 hours earlier. Move on already, quit crying about it, and carry signs that say "Stop the bombing". That will help.

Either way, it's clear you didn't watch/read much, if anything, about this vigil. There were plenty of defiant speeches, as well as chants and songs. One of the chants making the rounds, to the tune of she'll be coming around the mountain, "You can stick your fucking ISIS up your arse". Is that better, or is that still cowering?

And I'm still wondering how it's cowering for tens of thousands of people to jam a public square (whether for a vigil or a protest) while the terror alert level is critical and the PM had said that another attack was imminent.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

I'd expect a protest, not a vigil.

You're right. I mean the tragedy was a whole 18 hours earlier. Move on already, quit crying about it, and carry signs that say "Stop the bombing". That will help.

Either way, it's clear you didn't watch/read much, if anything, about this vigil. There were plenty of defiant speeches, as well as chants and songs. One of the chants making the rounds, to the tune of she'll be coming around the mountain, "You can stick your fucking ISIS up your arse". Is that better, or is that still cowering?

And I'm still wondering how it's cowering for tens of thousands of people to jam a public square (whether for a vigil or a protest) while the terror alert level is critical and the PM had said that another attack was imminent.

How far are they from the Muslim part of town? Perhaps a march is in order. People espousing these views should be made to feel uncomfortable.

UK actually did something not too long ago called Brexit, directly related to this kind of shit that their politicians have coddled and encouraged for years.

Cameron wrote:

Rocinante wrote:

This is the stock response to what I said, yes.

I'm not sure how to take that, so let me try again:

Considering how you preach the need for compassion and empathy on a range of topics, and in light of recent events, your statement that we get too tied up in terrorism is insensitive bordering on callous.

Let me also say that if we are weighing harms, each and every Muslim in the world getting their feelings hurt is a much lesser problem than a single Muslim extremist blowing himself up and killing innocent children. So let's figure out how to get them to stop killing innocent people, then we'll worry about how to stop hurting their feelings.

I understood what you we saying but think for 10 seconds about why a statistically rare occurrence (even in Britain) elicits compassion and outrage but the bombing of a church in Aleppo by Americans on March 16 that killed at least 37 people, all civilians, including children, doesn't. The "war on terror" is a war of attrition that WE WILL LOSE. Our taste for death will tire much sooner than extremists will. As long as rich people who refuse to send THEIR kids to die continue to murder in our names this continues. And I believe they want it that way. Keep us focusing on the brown people's barbarism and we don't focus on how they are systematically stripping away all our public resources and giving them away to for profit interests.

I mean let's get real motherfucker

Rocinante wrote:

Cameron wrote:

I'm not sure how to take that, so let me try again:

Considering how you preach the need for compassion and empathy on a range of topics, and in light of recent events, your statement that we get too tied up in terrorism is insensitive bordering on callous.

Let me also say that if we are weighing harms, each and every Muslim in the world getting their feelings hurt is a much lesser problem than a single Muslim extremist blowing himself up and killing innocent children. So let's figure out how to get them to stop killing innocent people, then we'll worry about how to stop hurting their feelings.

I understood what you we saying but think for 10 seconds about why a statistically rare occurrence (even in Britain) elicits compassion and outrage but the bombing of a church in Aleppo by Americans on March 16 that killed at least 37 people, all civilians, including children, doesn't. The "war on terror" is a war of attrition that WE WILL LOSE. Our taste for death will tire much sooner than extremists will. As long as rich people who refuse to send THEIR kids to die continue to murder in our names this continues. And I believe they want it that way. Keep us focusing on the brown people's barbarism and we don't focus on how they are systematically stripping away all our public resources and giving them away to for profit interests.

We sent people with the mission to deliberately murder their children?

It is what it is to European politicians. Gotta keep importing votes.

The context of that quote was debunked like seriously 6 months ago. Do better.

Rocinante wrote:I mean let's get real motherfucker

So at first it was 'power', now it's 'revenge'... but it's never what the individuals committing the attacks tell us it is.

Can we all agree that memes are stupid as fuck?

xsanguine wrote:

Rocinante wrote:I mean let's get real motherfucker

So at first it was 'power', now it's 'revenge'... but it's never what the individuals committing the attacks tell us it is.

Sorry dude. We operate on separate levels sometimes. What?

Rocinante wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

So at first it was 'power', now it's 'revenge'... but it's never what the individuals committing the attacks tell us it is.

Sorry dude. We operate on separate levels sometimes. What?  

I don't know, I'm getting bored and trying to spice things up.

What's the context of this quote, I won't tell you who said it you have to guess;

"In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful

The Almighty said: “And they thought that their fortresses would defend them from Allah! But Allah's (Torment) reached them from a place whereof they expected it not, and He cast terror into their hearts so that they destroyed their own dwellings with their own hands and the hands of the believers. Then take admonition, O you with eyes (to see).” [Al-Hashr: 2]

In a blessed attack for which Allah facilitated the causes for success, a faithful group of the soldiers of the Caliphate, may Allah dignify it and make it victorious, launched out, targeting the capital of prostitution and obscenity, the carrier of the banner of the Cross in Europe, Paris… Youths who divorced the world and went to their enemy seeking to be killed in the cause of Allah, in support of His religion and His Prophet, Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him, and his charges, and to put the nose of His enemies in the ground. So they were honest with Allah, we consider them thusly, and Allah conquered through their hands and cast in the hearts of the Crusaders horror in the middle of their land, where eight brothers wrapped in explosive belts and armed with machine rifles, targeted sites that were accurately chosen in the heart of the capital of France, including the Stade de France during the match between the Crusader German and French teams, where the fool of France, Francois Hollande, was present.

[They also targeted] the Bataclan Conference Center, where hundreds of apostates had gathered in a profligate prostitution party, and other areas in the 10th and 11th and 18th [arrondissements] and in a coordinated fashion. So Paris shook under their feet, and its streets were tight upon them, and the result of the attacks was the death of no less than 100 Crusaders and the wounding of more than those, and unto Allah is all praise and gratitude.

Allah had granted our brothers their wish and gave them what they loved, for they detonated their belts in the gatherings of the disbelievers after running out of ammunition, we ask Allah to accept them among the martyrs and make us follow them.

Let France and those who walk in its path know that they will remain on the top of the list of targets of the Islamic State, and that the smell of death will never leave their noses as long as they lead the convoy of the Crusader campaign, and dare to curse our Prophet, Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him, and are proud of fighting Islam in France and striking the Muslims in the land of the Caliphate with their planes, which did not help them at all in the streets of Paris and its rotten alleys. This attack is the first of the storm and a warning to those who wish to learn.

Allah is Great

“But honor, power and glory belong to Allah, and to His Messenger (Muhammad), and to the believers, but the hypocrites know not.”

I'll give you one clue. It was NOT Norm MacDonald.

Assholes always invoke the name of god for their bullshit.

Rocinante wrote:Assholes always invoke the name of god for their bullshit.

You know him?!?!

Santa Clause? Hell yeah bro I used to be an elf in his workshop.

Rocinante wrote:Santa Clause? Hell yeah bro I used to be an elf in his workshop.

Judging by that quote he's gotten really angry lately. I hope Christmas is still on this year.

Rocinante wrote:

Cameron wrote:

I'm not sure how to take that, so let me try again:

Considering how you preach the need for compassion and empathy on a range of topics, and in light of recent events, your statement that we get too tied up in terrorism is insensitive bordering on callous.

Let me also say that if we are weighing harms, each and every Muslim in the world getting their feelings hurt is a much lesser problem than a single Muslim extremist blowing himself up and killing innocent children. So let's figure out how to get them to stop killing innocent people, then we'll worry about how to stop hurting their feelings.

I understood what you we saying but think for 10 seconds about why a statistically rare occurrence (even in Britain) elicits compassion and outrage but the bombing of a church in Aleppo by Americans on March 16 that killed at least 37 people, all civilians, including children, doesn't. The "war on terror" is a war of attrition that WE WILL LOSE. Our taste for death will tire much sooner than extremists will. As long as rich people who refuse to send THEIR kids to die continue to murder in our names this continues. And I believe they want it that way. Keep us focusing on the brown people's barbarism and we don't focus on how they are systematically stripping away all our public resources and giving them away to for profit interests.

So what's your proposal vis a vis terrorism? That we just do nothing? You think it will just work itself out? Because that seems rather naive to me.

Seriously, did you listen to the Sam Harris podcast? You really should.

Cameron wrote:

Rocinante wrote:

I understood what you we saying but think for 10 seconds about why a statistically rare occurrence (even in Britain) elicits compassion and outrage but the bombing of a church in Aleppo by Americans on March 16 that killed at least 37 people, all civilians, including children, doesn't. The "war on terror" is a war of attrition that WE WILL LOSE. Our taste for death will tire much sooner than extremists will. As long as rich people who refuse to send THEIR kids to die continue to murder in our names this continues.  And I believe they want it that way.  Keep us focusing on the brown people's barbarism and we don't focus on how they are systematically stripping away all our public resources and giving them away to for profit interests.

So what's your proposal vis a vis terrorism? That we just do nothing? You think it will just work itself out? Because that seems rather naive to me.

Seriously, did you listen to the Sam Harris podcast? You really should.

I was trying to find a way to bring it around to this...

I don't know what to do. There's no real good answer. I mean, you can stop all immigration of Muslims and deport every Muslim. That will definitely lessen the amount of attacks that occur in the future... but, really? I couldn't, in good conscience, get into that conversation.

Then I think, maybe being a good person isn't the answer if survival is your primary objective. We've gotten to this point thinking that being good will prevail above all else. But why? Why would that be the case? What rule of nature dictates that being nice keeps people from wanting to eradicate you from the earth because their holy book tells them to? I look at Japan's immigration policy and wonder why they're not lambasted by world leaders for being racist.

Then I think... it's just nature. This is the natural evolution of civilization. There is nothing unprecedented that is occurring. There's nothing unprecedented about ISIS conquering and enslaving Europe 75 years from now. 150 years... whatever it may be. There's nothing unprecedented with European nations getting fed up and trying to eradicate Muslims in their land. I mean, that was just kind of the way things were for a very long time. This sort of relative peace is what is unprecedented as far as history is concerned.

Tis just a natural cycle...



I can't believe this meme assumed their gender. For real, though, it's a testament to how good we have it at this point in history when that's the type of stuff we're arguing about on a message board.

This is from the Peace Conference in Norway.





What do you do?

Kinda prophetic...

I miss Hitch.

Dude had brass balls and intellect to boot.

You bros hash this out yet?

Nordic wrote:You bros hash this out yet?

Will probably take another 1400 years.

A little late but speaking of Morrisey...



Johnny Marr's riffs are awesome. This is a fun one to play.

Father of Manchester Arena suicide bomber 'was a member of al-Qaeda linked militant group'

Roland Olaphant, The Telegraph wrote:The father of the Manchester Arena suicide bomber was a member of al-Qaeda linked militant group that attempted to assassinate Muammar Gaddafi in the 1990s, it was claimed on Wednesday.

Ramadan Abedi, the father of bomber Salman Abedi, was  a member of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, a militant group founded in 1995 to pursue the violent overthrow of Gaddafi’s military dictatorship,  Abdel-Basit Haroun, a former Libyan security official claimed.

Mr Abedi, who lived in Britain for over a decade in the 1990s and 2000s but now lives in Libya with other members of the family, denied the allegation. ​

"We don't believe in killing innocents. This is not us," Mr Abedi, 51, told the AP.

Mr Abedi made the comments shortly before he and another of his sons, Hachem Abedi, were arrested in Tripoli by security forces loyal to the UN-recognized Government of National Accord.

A spokesman for the group said Hachem Abedi was suspected of links with the Islamic State terrorist group, which claimed responsibility for the attack in Manchester