John T. Madden inappropriate text thing

Am I dumb? It seems creepy, but there seems to be a level of outrage that's a little over the top. The punishment he got seems appropriate to me.

I used seems a lot in the previous post.

I guess it all depends on whether or not it was the first time it happened. If it was, the fact that this story has been picked up by news agencies around the state is punishment enough. If not, he probably got off light.

Oh it's gone national. It's being lumped with the rest of the shit show.

The punishment didn't really seem like much of a punishment to me. Frankly, the texts, while inappropriate, didn't seem that bad to me either (meaning it's not like he was sending dick pics or whatever), but the young lady in question seems to have been pretty affected by it, so maybe she felt like he was implying that she should be receptive to his advances if she wanted to maintain her status in the band. Because of the power dynamics between the two, any sexual advance has the possibility to be viewed in a fairly negative light, with good reason.

Rocinante wrote:Oh it's gone national. It's being lumped with the rest of the shit show.

Oh it has? Wow. Last I knew MLive was the biggest to pick it up. The Simons are unconditionally loyal to him, so we'll see if he thinks it's worth riding out the storm while people are talking about it for the next month or so, or if he decides to cut his losses and go into real estate instead.

Cameron wrote:The punishment didn't really seem like much of a punishment to me. Frankly, the texts, while inappropriate, didn't seem that bad to me either (meaning it's not like he was sending dick pics or whatever), but the young lady in question seems to have been pretty affected by it, so maybe she felt like he was implying that she should be receptive to his advances if she wanted to maintain her status in the band. Because of the power dynamics between the two, any sexual advance has the possibility to be viewed in a fairly negative light, with good reason.

Yeah don't want to skirt the edge of victim blaming here, but he called her, apologized, said what he did was inappropriate (made excuses). Her inability to emotionally cope after all that seems a little... I don't know. Infantile? Here's the texts:

“Pics of your dress are required … Discreetly of course”
“When the season ends ... We’re going ice skating! I’m an old hockey player!”
“Blingy dress!! A+ I’m a fan. Yes ... Will be a good year.”
“Just finished my conducting gig ... Having a couple beers at a local bar ... Sorry for being a creepy texter.”

I mean... shrug.

Rocinante wrote:

Cameron wrote:The punishment didn't really seem like much of a punishment to me. Frankly, the texts, while inappropriate, didn't seem that bad to me either (meaning it's not like he was sending dick pics or whatever), but the young lady in question seems to have been pretty affected by it, so maybe she felt like he was implying that she should be receptive to his advances if she wanted to maintain her status in the band. Because of the power dynamics between the two, any sexual advance has the possibility to be viewed in a fairly negative light, with good reason.

Yeah don't want to skirt the edge of victim blaming here, but he called her, apologized, said what he did was inappropriate (made excuses). Her inability to emotionally cope after all that seems a little... I don't know. Infantile? Here's the texts:

“Pics of your dress are required … Discreetly of course”
“When the season ends ... We’re going ice skating! I’m an old hockey player!”
“Blingy dress!! A+ I’m a fan. Yes ... Will be a good year.”
“Just finished my conducting gig ... Having a couple beers at a local bar ... Sorry for being a creepy texter.”

I mean... shrug.

I'll admit, I was pretty outraged when I first heard, only because of how self-righteous he has always been about making good decisions and conducting yourself well...being a good example and all that. He made a pretty big mistake and he probably should have had a bit more of a punishment because of it. He told me once that perception can become someone's reality - well, the girl he was texting perceived that she was in an uncomfortable situation with someone she respected. Whether or not he wanted to push things to the next level, who knows. At best, he is a hypocrite and a creep. I guess it all hinges on whether or not she was the first.

Maybe I'm just becoming a proponent of evidence of ACTUAL misconduct vs. whatever this is. Gross? Yes. Worth ending a decades long career? Well, it probably will.

Rocinante wrote:

Cameron wrote:The punishment didn't really seem like much of a punishment to me. Frankly, the texts, while inappropriate, didn't seem that bad to me either (meaning it's not like he was sending dick pics or whatever), but the young lady in question seems to have been pretty affected by it, so maybe she felt like he was implying that she should be receptive to his advances if she wanted to maintain her status in the band. Because of the power dynamics between the two, any sexual advance has the possibility to be viewed in a fairly negative light, with good reason.

Yeah don't want to skirt the edge of victim blaming here, but he called her, apologized, said what he did was inappropriate (made excuses). Her inability to emotionally cope after all that seems a little... I don't know. Infantile? Here's the texts:

“Pics of your dress are required … Discreetly of course”
“When the season ends ... We’re going ice skating! I’m an old hockey player!”
“Blingy dress!! A+ I’m a fan. Yes ... Will be a good year.”
“Just finished my conducting gig ... Having a couple beers at a local bar ... Sorry for being a creepy texter.”

I mean... shrug.

If he wouldn't have said "discreetly" in the first one, it would have been much better. That sort of made it sound like he perhaps wanted some slightly racy photos or something (not my initial interpretation, but I'm trying to put myself in this girl's shoes a bit here). Then he apologized for being a creepy texter, sort of acknowledging his intentions a bit and perhaps validating previous negative inferences against him.

It's also important to remember that these aren't the only interactions these two people have had with each other. I'm sure there was some in-person stuff that made her a bit uncomfortable at times. I agree that her inability to cope seems a bit over the top to me, but that also hints at the possibility that there is more going on here than we can really see from our perspectives.

Cameron wrote:

Rocinante wrote:

Yeah don't want to skirt the edge of victim blaming here, but he called her, apologized, said what he did was inappropriate (made excuses). Her inability to emotionally cope after all that seems a little... I don't know. Infantile? Here's the texts:

“Pics of your dress are required … Discreetly of course”
“When the season ends ... We’re going ice skating! I’m an old hockey player!”
“Blingy dress!! A+ I’m a fan. Yes ... Will be a good year.”
“Just finished my conducting gig ... Having a couple beers at a local bar ... Sorry for being a creepy texter.”

I mean... shrug.

If he wouldn't have said "discreetly" in the first one, it would have been much better. That sort of made it sound like he perhaps wanted some slightly racy photos or something (not my initial interpretation, but I'm trying to put myself in this girl's shoes a bit here). Then he apologized for being a creepy texter, sort of acknowledging his intentions a bit and perhaps validating previous negative inferences against him.

It's also important to remember that these aren't the only interactions these two people have had with each other. I'm sure there was some in-person stuff that made her a bit uncomfortable at times. I agree that her inability to cope seems a bit over the top to me, but that also hints at the possibility that there is more going on here than we can really see from our perspectives.

Understood. Now that the story is national, it might be the time to get that information out there.

If it exists.

I talked to somebody who knows him. By their account, Madden is a straight up guy, who made a mistake that he nearly immediately admitted to, and the State News got the story. IMO, were it not for him introducing the word "creepy", the story would not have gained the ground it has.

Rocinante wrote:

Cameron wrote:The punishment didn't really seem like much of a punishment to me. Frankly, the texts, while inappropriate, didn't seem that bad to me either (meaning it's not like he was sending dick pics or whatever), but the young lady in question seems to have been pretty affected by it, so maybe she felt like he was implying that she should be receptive to his advances if she wanted to maintain her status in the band. Because of the power dynamics between the two, any sexual advance has the possibility to be viewed in a fairly negative light, with good reason.

Yeah don't want to skirt the edge of victim blaming here, but he called her, apologized, said what he did was inappropriate (made excuses). Her inability to emotionally cope after all that seems a little... I don't know. Infantile? Here's the texts:

“Pics of your dress are required … Discreetly of course”
“When the season ends ... We’re going ice skating! I’m an old hockey player!”
“Blingy dress!! A+ I’m a fan. Yes ... Will be a good year.”
“Just finished my conducting gig ... Having a couple beers at a local bar ... Sorry for being a creepy texter.”

I mean... shrug.

Since texts/emails are tone deaf could it be possible there is a dress code and by "we" he meant multiple people in the band. I don't know.

"dud3 wanted to get layd. wats the big deel?"

-Blanche

Someone introduce our goddamn staff to Snapchat.

Man wtf is in the water a MSU place is falling apart

Strange story. His punishment was a joke but she seemed to overreact, especially after his immediate apology. It does make me wonder if there was something else odd happening in the dynamic leading up to the texts and that this was what prompted her decision to take the matter to the U. Then again, I wasn't in her shoes, so I don't know what she was going through. It really only has to happen once for someone to feel it needs to be reported.

SawGreen wrote:I talked to somebody who knows him. By their account, Madden is a straight up guy, who made a mistake that he nearly immediately admitted to, and the State News got the story. IMO, were it not for him introducing the word "creepy", the story would not have gained the ground it has.

He absolutely is a top notch person, which I think is part of the reason why everyone who knew him is so shocked/upset. Learning your heroes are human and all that. He deserves to get a bit of heat for how he behaved, but I feel like this story going national is more of a punishment to his family.

I'm going to start filing lawsuits every time a woman calls me a dick. It's so threatening to me and I feel so vulnerable now. I just can't feel safe anymore

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Man wtf is in the water a MSU place is falling apart

Pussy i guess. Its been ruining men since the beginning of mankind.

isn't madden death roe's hero? Band geek that he is?

I just want to make the point that David Thornton should be presented as a case study in what is the right way to handle these accusations.
I'm sure it would have been easy for him to try to sweep it under the rug, say how respected and well thought of Madden is, and tried to play it all off as a misunderstanding. That would have been an easy road, at least until more allegations ever came forward.

But as an assistant director of bands, he took the information about his boss to the department head so that those in charge were aware and could deal with the information.

Unlike the shitstorm that is surrounding everyone affiliated with Dr. Nassar.
Madden is a distraction, Nassar is, potentially, going to damage this institution for years.

Wally Fairway wrote:I just want to make the point that David Thornton should be presented as a case study in what is the right way to handle these accusations.
I'm sure it would have been easy for him to try to sweep it under the rug, say how respected and well thought of Madden is, and tried to play it all off as a misunderstanding. That would have been an easy road, at least until more allegations ever came forward.

But as an assistant director of bands, he took the information about his boss to the department head so that those in charge were aware and could deal with the information.

Unlike the shitstorm that is surrounding everyone affiliated with Dr. Nassar.
Madden is a distraction, Nassar is, potentially, going to damage this institution for years.

It is also important to note that David Thornton and Madden are personal friends - I can't imagine how hard it must have been for him to make that report. In a week where an MSU employee has been in the news for defending an accused child molester/pornographer, it's refreshing to see that people like David Thornton also work at the university. Madden is getting his flogging in the court of public opinion, but it shouldn't take anyone's attention away from the Dr. Nassar dumpster fire.

Said it on the other board. A different year and he might get away with it with a reprimand.

This year, this time I think he's toast.

GRR Spartan wrote:Said it on the other board. A different year and he might get away with it with a reprimand.

This year, this time I think he's toast.

So are people calling for him to resign. If he got punished and this happened awhile ago how is he toast?