Blame the owner, not the breed.

by Albert_Potato Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:22 am

I kept waiting for the thing to attack....never happened.

by **tGreenWay** Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:23 am

I saw this video earlier today, and that dog is sofa king adorable. While I agree with you generally speaking, I think it's more like blame the owner and the breeding, not the breed.

by **Ass Dan** Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:25 am

Cute. Although that guy probably brings his guitar out at parties, making him a douche.

by tanfan! Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:48 am

Ass Dan wrote:Cute. Although that guy probably brings his guitar out at parties, making him a douche.

He sucks

by tanfan! Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:51 am

tGreenWay wrote:I saw this video earlier today, and that dog is sofa king adorable. While I agree with you generally speaking, I think it's more like blame the owner and the breeding, not the breed.

Not a fan of pit bulls Blame the owner, not the breed. 3836498553

by RBW Spartan Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:34 am

We're blessed to have 3 pit bulls, and they're the nicest dogs we've ever had. Really a shame they get such a bad rap, because they're great dogs.

by MSU addict Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:23 am

Dog breeds have certain inherent tendencies literally bred into them.

You don’t have to teach a Golden Retriever to fetch, it just does it. Border Collies have a natural herding instinct.

The breeds that are commonly referred to as Pit Bulls have a complicated history, but in the end they were bred to fight other dogs and animals.

Yes, Pit Bulls can be loyal and gentle family pets - but like any dog, they sometimes just act on instinct. If your Golden brings you a TV remote just because or a Border Collie tries to keep you in the center of the sidewalk for reasons unknown to him, that’s not much of a problem. When a Pit Bull acts instinctively it can be a problem.

by RBW Spartan Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:50 am

MSU addict wrote:Dog breeds have certain inherent tendencies literally bred into them.

You don’t have to teach a Golden Retriever to fetch, it just does it. Border Collies have a natural herding instinct.

The breeds that are commonly referred to as Pit Bulls have a complicated history, but in the end they were bred to fight other dogs and animals.

Yes, Pit Bulls can be loyal and gentle family pets - but like any dog, they sometimes just act on instinct. If your Golden brings you a TV remote just because or a Border Collie tries to keep you in the center of the sidewalk for reasons unknown to him, that’s not much of a problem. When a Pit Bull acts instinctively it can be a problem.

Which is why it's important for the owner to behave responsibly.

We have 5 acres for our 3 pits to run and chase deer and squirrel and moles on. If they lived in an urban setting, or weren't socialized, then there are issues.

That doesn't mean the breed (and really Pit Bull isn't a breed, there are just a bunch of mutts who all look alike) is inherently bad, evil, or wrong.

by MSU addict Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:25 am

RBW Spartan wrote:

Which is why it's important for the owner to behave responsibly.

We have 5 acres for our 3 pits to run and chase deer and squirrel and moles on. If they lived in an urban setting, or weren't socialized, then there are issues.

That doesn't mean the breed (and really Pit Bull isn't a breed, there are just a bunch of mutts who all look alike) is inherently bad, evil, or wrong.

The problem remains that a lot of owners do not act responsibly. There was a thread yesterday about a poster who took in a somewhat neglected dog. A neglected Chihuahua/Pug mix is not much of problem - a neglected Pit Bull can be a serious problem. And that is my point, there is simply much more inherent risk involved with certain dog breeds.

Yesterday there was a story that hit the national wire about a 3 year-old girl who was kicked out of a KFC because her appearance was disturbing other customers. She had been attacked by three Pit Bulls and the pictures of the damage inflicted on her just make me sad. I don't want to think about the pain she has endured. Granted the owner of the dogs (her grandfather) is the ultimate problem, but I don't think she would have been kicked out of that KFC if her grandfather owned a bunch of Labrador Retrievers.

by CrazySparty Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:28 am

I assumed this was another California Chrome thread

by **Mentalstate** Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:51 am

The meanest dogs in Miami are small lap dogs, owned by people who completely love that their little SOBs are so "loyal" to them, those little fuckers will take a fingernail every time if given the chance.

by **tGreenWay** Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:55 am

Tanfan! wrote:

Not a fan of pit bulls

It's not a breed I'd ever want, but I'm continually amazed by the number of people I know that own or want a pit. I must be way trashier than I thought.

by **Turtleneck** Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:01 am

tGreenWay wrote:

It's not a breed I'd ever want, but I'm continually amazed by the number of people I know that own or want a pit. I must be way trashier than I thought.

From your family photo at the St. Clair County Fair last year, I would say you lean in that direction.

Blame the owner, not the breed. White-trash-family

by **Nommad2** Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:54 am

Sorry, but it's the breed. When's the last time a poodle killed a small child? Or a chihuahua?

by Rook Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:25 am

Standard Poodles can kick some ass.

Interesting that Dwags believes that its not the breed but the owner, and yet in the gun thread its to tool not the owner. Same argument. Yes, responsible people can responsibly own a pit or a gun. But this country if jack full with a bunch of stupid shit assholes who I don't trust to own a gun or a pit bull. They will neglect both and eventually someone gets hurt. Unfortunately, these stupid assholes ruin it for the responsible people, but that's life.

by **tGreenWay** Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:33 am

Turtleneck wrote:

From your family photo at the St. Clair County Fair last year, I would say you lean in that direction.

You promised to delete that pic right after you took it. By the way, my old lady says that baby is yours, so it's going to cost you an extra two cartons of smokes for me to look after it every week.

by Senior Dickfist Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:48 am

[/quote]

You promised to delete that pic right after you took it. By the way, my old lady says that baby is yours, so it's going to cost you an extra two cartons of smokes for me to look after it every week. [/quote]

I see your daughter is a Juggalette. Is it safe to assume you're also a Jugalo?

by WCS Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:53 am

Rook wrote:Standard Poodles can kick some ass.

Interesting that Dwags believes that its not the breed but the owner, and yet in the gun thread its to tool not the owner. Same argument. Yes, responsible people can responsibly own a pit or a gun. But this country if jack full with a bunch of stupid shit assholes who I don't trust to own a gun or a pit bull. They will neglect both and eventually someone gets hurt. Unfortunately, these stupid assholes ruin it for the responsible people, but that's life.

He is mindless when it comes to the mental health issue. He allows the thinking to be done for him by the politicos and they use him to blame the tool.

He isn't so mindless when it comes to dogs and vehicles, though.

by **Turtleneck** Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:57 am

You promised to delete that pic right after you took it. By the way, my old lady says that baby is yours, so it's going to cost you an extra two cartons of smokes for me to look after it every week. [/quote]

I see your daughter is a Juggalette. Is it safe to assume you're also a Jugalo?[/quote]

Ever see him at Lake Lansing? Down the the clowns.

by Hut1hut2 Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:12 am

RBW Spartan wrote:We're blessed to have 3 pit bulls, and they're the nicest dogs we've ever had. Really a shame they get such a bad rap, because they're great dogs.

Maybe if they would stop eating babies?

by **pulling69** Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:02 pm

Hut1hut2 wrote:
Maybe if they would stop eating babies?

That is why I switched from owning Pits to Dingos.

by Rodney Ruxin Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:54 pm

Ass Dan wrote:Cute. Although that guy probably brings his guitar out at parties, making him a douche.

by Hut1hut2 Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:56 pm

pulling69 wrote:

That is why I switched from owning Pits to Dingos.

Well played.

by Senior Dickfist Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:12 pm

[/quote]

Ever see him at Lake Lansing? Down the the clowns.[/quote]

I think I may have seen the whole tGreenWay family at the last Gathering of the Hatchetmen.

by Turf Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:38 pm

dogs are individuals, just like people. there are flaky dogs with a few wires loose. even a well-trained animal can go off it's rocker.

by **Turtleneck** Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:45 pm

Ever see him at Lake Lansing? Down the the clowns.[/quote]

I think I may have seen the whole tGreenWay family at the last Gathering of the Hatchetmen. [/quote]

Mrs. tGreenway lost all of that baby weight.

Blame the owner, not the breed. Juggalosoverheard

Blame the owner, not the breed. Juggalosoverheard

by K9 Guzzler Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:02 pm

My best friends like cats. Cats are better.

by RBW Spartan Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:11 pm

MSU addict wrote:
The problem remains that a lot of owners do not act responsibly. There was a thread yesterday about a poster who took in a somewhat neglected dog. A neglected Chihuahua/Pug mix is not much of problem - a neglected Pit Bull can be a serious problem. And that is my point, there is simply much more inherent risk involved with certain dog breeds.

Yesterday there was a story that hit the national wire about a 3 year-old girl who was kicked out of a KFC because her appearance was disturbing other customers. She had been attacked by three Pit Bulls and the pictures of the damage inflicted on her just make me sad. I don't want to think about the pain she has endured. Granted the owner of the dogs (her grandfather) is the ultimate problem, but I don't think she would have been kicked out of that KFC if her grandfather owned a bunch of Labrador Retrievers.

If the mythical lab had been mistreated, absolutely. It's asinine and insane to think only pits are capable of hurting someone.

Nommad2 wrote:Sorry, but it's the breed. When's the last time a poodle killed a small child? Or a chihuahua?

Toy poodles and Chihuahuas aren't big enough dummy. However, small dogs continually rate higher on aggressive tests than pits.

by MSU addict Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:08 am

RBW Spartan wrote:

If the mythical lab had been mistreated, absolutely. It's asinine and insane to think only pits are capable of hurting someone.

The only thing asinine or insane is inferring from my post that a Labrador Retriever is incapable of hurting someone.

My position is that given a similar upbringing, a Pit Bull is more likely to attack and inflict damage on person than a Labrador Retriever. Disagree with that position if you would like, but don't make illogical inferences.

by Senior Dickfist Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:24 am

Turtleneck wrote:Ever see him at Lake Lansing? Down the the clowns.

I think I may have seen the whole tGreenWay family at the last Gathering of the Hatchetmen. [/quote]

Mrs. tGreenway lost all of that baby weight.

Blame the owner, not the breed. Juggalosoverheard

[/quote]

On her...

by Chitown_Badger Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:42 am

Sorry man, it's the breed. When one breed is responsible for 2.6 times more attacks than all other breeds COMBINED, and 1.44 times as many deaths as all other breeds COMBINED, the facts don't lie.

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-study-dog-attacks-and-maimings-merritt-clifton.php

You having one dog that hasn't attacked someone doesn't mean shit. Most dogs never attack someone. But when they do, more often than not, it's a pitbull...and its not even close.

by **Dendrobates** Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:43 pm

I love pits. They are one if the sweetest dogs I've ever met. I have never cared much for the tiny dogs like chihuahuas. I used to work at a vet hospital, and those little fuckers would always bite you. The vet I worked for said the breed he had the most issues and was worried about were German Shepards.

by Izzo Court Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:59 pm

Intelligent well educated people tend to rank the reason they want a dog as follows.
1- Companionship.

Stupid people trying to compensate for their tiny dick rank the reason they want a dog as follows.
1- Intimidation of Neighbors or Strangers.

by tanfan! Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:10 pm

That dog is adorable until a baby crawls into the room.

by Chitown_Badger Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:09 pm

Dendrobates wrote:I love pits. They are one if the sweetest dogs I've ever met. I have never cared much for the tiny dogs like chihuahuas. I used to work at a vet hospital, and those little fuckers would always bite you. The vet I worked for said the breed he had the most issues and was worried about were German Shepards.

I disagree.

Sincerely,

Facts

by RBW Spartan Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:27 pm

MSU addict wrote:
The only thing asinine or insane is inferring from my post that a Labrador Retriever is incapable of hurting someone.

My position is that given a similar upbringing, a Pit Bull is more likely to attack and inflict damage on person than a Labrador Retriever. Disagree with that position if you would like, but don't make illogical inferences.

You know what, I won't disagree. Pits are bred to aggressivley defend their owners and their space. That being said, the amount of attacks by pits still dwarfs their overall numbers.

It would be akin to saying Americans are a worse people than Canadians because we're responsible for more murders. True, but really missing the forest for the trees.

Chitown_Badger wrote:Sorry man, it's the breed. When one breed is responsible for 2.6 times more attacks than all other breeds COMBINED, and 1.44 times as many deaths as all other breeds COMBINED, the facts don't lie.

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-study-dog-attacks-and-maimings-merritt-clifton.php

You having one dog that hasn't attacked someone doesn't mean shit. Most dogs never attack someone. But when they do, more often than not, it's a pitbull...and its not even close.

So lemme get this straight.

1. Me having a few dogs that don't attack someone doesn't mean the breed is safe (I agree with you)
2. We have to look at ALL the attacks (I'm with you).
3. But let's ignore the exponentially higher number of non attacking pits.

Let's say that 1% of all pit results in attacks (which is an obscenely high number, but let's do it for the sake of argument) - the other 99% aren't any sort of proof the breed is by and large ok?

I would like to see a stat where it shows that "more often that not...and it isn't close" (i.e. significantly over 50%) of attacks are by pits.

And just because I wanna take this meta:

23 of the 38 dog bite fatalities in 2012 were attributed to pit bulls (http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2012.php)

If 1% of dogs in USA (about 78 million in 2012) are pit bulls. (1% is based on a rather old survey, but estimates range up to 5%)

· The rate of death per pit bull would be .000029.

o This would be about 3 fatalities per 100,000 pit bulls.

If we use the most generous gun estimate, there are 310 million privately owned guns in the USA (the lower range is 270 milllion). (http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states)

There were 31,000 gun deaths in the USA in 2009. politifact.com

· Rate of death per gun is 0.0001

o Or 10 deaths per 100,000 guns

Discussion

Argument in favor of pit bulls: Pit bulls deter violent crimes by scaring away murderers, rapists, etc. You would think twice about breaking into the house of a pit bull owner. As long as a population of 100,000 pit bulls can prevent the deaths of more than 3 people, you could call it a wash or a net positive. Pit bulls cause collateral damage, but they do more good than harm.

Argument in favor of guns: Guns deter violent crimes by scaring away murderers, rapists, etc. You would definitely think twice about breaking into the house of a gun owner—but you could bring your own gun to level the odds. The home defender has the advantage of taking a defensive position in the house. The attacker has an advantage of surprise. As long as a 100,000 guns can prevent 10 or more deaths, they are a net benefit. Guns cause collateral damage, but they do more good than harm.

Disadvantages of pit bulls versus guns for home defense:

· Less lethal than a gun.

· Harder to directly control.

· Dog allergies.

Advantages of pit bulls versus guns for home defense:

· Harder to commit suicide or kill yourself by accident with a pit bull.

· More complicated to use as an offensive weapon.

· Can bark to deter home entry, even if owner is asleep.

· More difficult for attacker to “level the odds” by bringing a pit bull.

· A pit bull can defend an empty house.

· A pit bull can do its job while owner flees.

· An accidental pit bull bite less harmful than an accidental gunshot wound.

· A Pit bull’s effectiveness is not directly dependent on its owner’s state of mind.

by **Rocinante** Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:38 pm

I had no idea in my wildest imaginings that this thread would turn out like this.

by Bill Cain Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:26 pm

It has absolutely nothing to do with the breed....

Pitbulls are loving, warm, laid-back, and submissive animals. Easy to train and you don't even need to take them on a walk.

You guys should totally buy one.

by MasonGuy Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:08 pm

So if I was a badass drug dealer street guy, I could train a Shar Pei to tear ass?

I am sold then, it must be the owner.

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