Re: Class warfare

by **Trapper Gus** Fri 18 Feb 2022 - 14:54

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

It is pretty well known that wealthy people often pay less for items of equal value than the non-wealthy, and that the poor people of the world almost always pay more for items than those who are better off.

You lack knowledge. Also look at the edit I made to the piror post.

Dumb. I can't even discuss this with you if that's your belief. It's just wrong.

I agree, if you don't know the basics then you really don't have the knowledge needed to have a discussion.

by Bredo Morstoel Fri 18 Feb 2022 - 14:54

AvgMSUJoe wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

So without going in to Trapper's philosophically incoherent ramblings, how would you implement a wealth tax? Please be as specific as possible.
By using the IRS. duh. It's their job.

How do you propose that the IRS calculates "wealth?"

by **Trapper Gus** Fri 18 Feb 2022 - 14:55

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:
You smarmily claiming the richest people in the world actually have no income IS the EXACT reason the country need a wealth tax.
Accounting tricks do not absolve billionaires from their responsibilities.

So without going in to Trapper's philosophically incoherent ramblings, how would you implement a wealth tax? Please be as specific as possible.

An explanation of the basics of how markets work are hardly ramblings....

by **Trapper Gus** Fri 18 Feb 2022 - 14:56

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:
By using the IRS. duh. It's their job.

How do you propose that the IRS calculates "wealth?"

Current value. The same way the banks who loan the wealthy money so they can avoid income tax do it.

by AvgMSUJoe Fri 18 Feb 2022 - 15:08

I understand your an accounting nerd, or played one at one point in your life... I'm not going to argue the semantics because I don't care to play your game.

They currently cheat the existing system, probably will cheat the wealth tax too. I get it...

But, proper reporting from Wall street, fucking Zillow for real estate, Market valuations (including their assets) of companies they are listed as the owners... Eventually you would get to a number (for accounting nerds to argue about).

Amazon (most profitable in the world) taking hundreds of millions in loans to pay Bezos so they can show "debt" in him not having "income" is just bullshit.

by **kingstonlake** Fri 18 Feb 2022 - 21:59

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/elon-musks-dollar57b-donation-sparks-questions-about-giving/ar-AAU30LV?li=BBnb7Kz

In November, according to a regulatory filling, the Tesla CEO donated to charity about 5 million shares of company stock, worth $5.7 billion dollars

Some experts say Musk likely donated his shares to his donor-advised fund, or DAF for short. DAFs are essentially charitable investment accounts in which donors can claim a tax deduction upfront but aren’t legally required to distribute the money.

A DAF donation would allow him to claim a tax deduction of as much as 30% of his 2021 adjusted gross income, instead of 20% if he had donated it instead to his foundation. Musk could also deduct the fair market value of the stock, instead of its original value.

“He can do whatever he wants with his money — anyone can,” said John Arnold, a billionaire philanthropist who co-founded the Laura and John Arnold Foundation and Arnold Ventures with his wife, Laura. “But if he’s getting a subsidy from society through this tax deduction, then there’s a responsibility that goes with it.”

by Bredo Morstoel Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 10:43

AvgMSUJoe wrote:I understand your an accounting nerd, or played one at one point in your life... I'm not going to argue the semantics because I don't care to play your game.

They currently cheat the existing system, probably will cheat the wealth tax too. I get it...

But, proper reporting from Wall street, fucking Zillow for real estate, Market valuations (including their assets) of companies they are listed as the owners... Eventually you would get to a number (for accounting nerds to argue about).

Amazon (most profitable in the world) taking hundreds of millions in loans to pay Bezos so they can show "debt" in him not having "income" is just bullshit.

Well here is the embodiment of a tantrum.

I don’t want to deal with details, it’s just so unfair we need to do something! Waaahhh!

by **Cameron** Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 11:06

Yeah, guys, you aren't allowed to be a proponent of a particular tax scheme unless you can describe it's precise technical implementation in exacting detail. What would subsection 403.25A-3(b) say under this proposed wealth tax? How can we take you seriously if you haven't got this all worked out?

by **Trapper Gus** Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 11:06

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:I understand your an accounting nerd, or played one at one point in your life... I'm not going to argue the semantics because I don't care to play your game.

They currently cheat the existing system, probably will cheat the wealth tax too. I get it...

But, proper reporting from Wall street, fucking Zillow for real estate, Market valuations (including their assets) of companies they are listed as the owners... Eventually you would get to a number (for accounting nerds to argue about).

Amazon (most profitable in the world) taking hundreds of millions in loans to pay Bezos so they can show "debt" in him not having "income" is just bullshit.

Well here is the embodiment of a tantrum.

I don’t want to deal with details, it’s just so unfair we need to do something! Waaahhh!

So why are you throwing a tantrum.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 11:19

Cameron wrote:Yeah, guys, you aren't allowed to be a proponent of a particular tax scheme unless you can describe it's precise technical implementation in exacting detail. What would subsection 403.25A-3(b) say under this proposed wealth tax? How can we take you seriously if you haven't got this all worked out?

Further it’s very very important that you spell out those details on this, a website that 12 people visit.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 11:20

Please spend the next hour giving me a post with every detail so that I can skim it then tell you I think you’re stupid thank you

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 11:24

The rich people that you spend your life defending won’t fuck you. Sorry. No matter how much of your life you waste defending their right to have undiagnosed mental conditions. (Interesting that you think we should prioritize mental health funding in other aspects without giving even the slightest detail as to how you want to do that, but in this respect you defend the mentally ill’s right to be mentally ill.)

by Bredo Morstoel Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 11:32

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:The rich people that you spend your life defending won’t fuck you. Sorry. No matter how much of your life you waste defending their right to have undiagnosed mental conditions. (Interesting that you think we should prioritize mental health funding in other aspects without giving even the slightest detail as to how you want to do that, but in this respect you defend the mentally ill’s right to be mentally ill.)

You’re a lightweight. Stop your jealous crying and work harder.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 12:09

Lol, no need.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 12:10

You don’t need to defend them though. they’re quite capable of defending themselves. If they’re not actively paying you to look out for their interests then fuck em

by Bredo Morstoel Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 12:27

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:You don’t need to defend them though. they’re quite capable of defending themselves. If they’re not actively paying you to look out for their interests then fuck em

This who can, do. Those who can’t, cry about how unfair it is.

by **Motown Spartan** Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 12:29

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:You don’t need to defend them though. they’re quite capable of defending themselves. If they’re not actively paying you to look out for their interests then fuck em

This who can, do. Those who can’t, cry about how unfair it is.

English motherfucker, do you speak it?

by **Cameron** Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 12:37

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:The rich people that you spend your life defending won’t fuck you. Sorry. No matter how much of your life you waste defending their right to have undiagnosed mental conditions. (Interesting that you think we should prioritize mental health funding in other aspects without giving even the slightest detail as to how you want to do that, but in this respect you defend the mentally ill’s right to be mentally ill.)

You’re a lightweight. Stop your jealous crying and work harder.

Yeah, guys, just work harder. Everyone knows hard work and material comfort have a one to one correlation. Rich people are good and virtuous, the poors are bad and stinky.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 12:48

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:You don’t need to defend them though. they’re quite capable of defending themselves. If they’re not actively paying you to look out for their interests then fuck em

This who can, do. Those who can’t, cry about how unfair it is.

Again I need to be extremely clear that they’re not going to fuck you

by Bredo Morstoel Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 12:56

Motown Spartan wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

This who can, do. Those who can’t, cry about how unfair it is.

English motherfucker, do you speak it?

Money motherfucker, do you make it?

by **Motown Spartan** Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 13:24

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:

English motherfucker, do you speak it?

Money motherfucker, do you make it?

Oh I'm pretty sure I make and have a lot more than you do.

And we've already established that you're a liar, so no use in "arguing" this one.

by Bredo Morstoel Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 13:36

Motown Spartan wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Money motherfucker, do you make it?

Oh I'm pretty sure I make and have a lot more than you do.

And we've already established that you're a liar, so no use in "arguing" this one.

I wish there was a way to make that bet. I'd take that all day, every day.

by **Trapper Gus** Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 13:48

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:

Oh I'm pretty sure I make and have a lot more than you do.

And we've already established that you're a liar, so no use in "arguing" this one.

I wish there was a way to make that bet. I'd take that all day, every day.

I shouldn't do this, but I will ...

One of you is driving a 2-year-old Jeep with 107k miles on it ...

The other is driving a brand-new Ford Lightning Pickup.

by Bredo Morstoel Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 13:52

Trapper Gus wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

I wish there was a way to make that bet. I'd take that all day, every day.

I shouldn't do this, but I will ...

One of you is driving a 2-year-old Jeep with 107k miles on it ...

The other is driving a brand-new Ford Lightning Pickup.

Warren Buffet drives a few year old Cadillac XTS. He must be lying about his wealth, too.

by **Trapper Gus** Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 14:06

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

I shouldn't do this, but I will ...

One of you is driving a 2-year-old Jeep with 107k miles on it ...

The other is driving a brand-new Ford Lightning Pickup.

Warren Buffet drives a few year old Cadillac XTS. He must be lying about his wealth, too.

I haven't noticed him on this board calling other user's names like you are.

by Pervis Muldoon Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 14:35

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

I shouldn't do this, but I will ...

One of you is driving a 2-year-old Jeep with 107k miles on it ...

The other is driving a brand-new Ford Lightning Pickup.

Warren Buffet drives a few year old Cadillac XTS. He must be lying about his wealth, too.

Warren who?

by Bredo Morstoel Sat 19 Feb 2022 - 15:42

Pervis Muldoon wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Warren Buffet drives a few year old Cadillac XTS. He must be lying about his wealth, too.

Warren who?

Buffett

by RQA Mon 21 Feb 2022 - 9:55

Trapper Gus wrote:
I shouldn't do this, but I will ...

One of you is driving a 2-year-old Jeep with 107k miles on it ...

The other is driving a brand-new Ford Lightning Pickup.

The Lightning hasn't been launched yet Trapper.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon 21 Feb 2022 - 9:57

RQA wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:
I shouldn't do this, but I will ...

One of you is driving a 2-year-old Jeep with 107k miles on it ...

The other is driving a brand-new Ford Lightning Pickup.

The Lightning hasn't been launched yet Trapper.

Good Point ... it should have been "is buying"

by RQA Mon 21 Feb 2022 - 13:15

Trapper Gus wrote:
RQA wrote:

The Lightning hasn't been launched yet Trapper.

Good Point ... it should have been "is buying"

At present "is buying" required nothing more than a small deposit and getting your name on a list.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon 21 Feb 2022 - 17:23

I'm going to stick with what the economists who justify the Free-Market Systems say, which I have already said.

As far as I can tell, no one has been able to create a single theory of economics which works universally.

Thus, as a practical matter, taxes on profits, with higher taxes on higher profits, seems to be a practical system for imperfect understandings.

by **Trapper Gus** Thu 3 Mar 2022 - 19:14

President Joe Biden’s administration said it would sanction eight wealthy Russians and their families and impose visa restrictions on 19 others and 47 of their family, as the U.S. and its allies seek to raise pressure on the elites around President Vladimir Putin in response to the invasion of Ukraine.

the super wealthy verses the rest has no national boundaries.

by Bredo Morstoel Thu 3 Mar 2022 - 23:37

Where do you guys stand on seizing super yachts?

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/03/business/russian-oligarchs-yachts-invs/index.html

I doubt any of it will stand up in the courts, but it sets a hell of a precedent. I wonder if the global economy will become a little less global as a result?

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Fri 4 Mar 2022 - 6:51

I don’t think I really need to answer that

I do enjoy your saying “it won’t stand up in courts” immediately followed by “it sets a precedent”… precedent being a very famous court word for something or other that I can’t remember

by Bredo Morstoel Fri 4 Mar 2022 - 8:28

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I don’t think I really need to answer that

I do enjoy your saying “it won’t stand up in courts” immediately followed by “it sets a precedent”… precedent being a very famous court word for something or other that I can’t remember

Sorry. Should have been more pedantic. What I meant was that it opens a bit of a door for future actions by other countries. Feels like a dangerous (non legal) precedent.

by **Trapper Gus** Fri 4 Mar 2022 - 8:35

The US has been doing sanctions on individuals for several years, not sure when it started but it has been ongoing since at least sometime in the Obama Administration if not long before then.

by Bredo Morstoel Fri 4 Mar 2022 - 8:49

Trapper Gus wrote:The US has been doing sanctions on individuals for several years, not sure when it started but it has been ongoing since at least sometime in the Obama Administration if not long before then.

I remember the outrage when Obama started. Now it’s very popular thanks to the pervasive “Russians bad” attitudes.

by **NigelUno** Fri 4 Mar 2022 - 8:57

Bredo Morstoel wrote:Where do you guys stand on seizing super yachts?

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/03/business/russian-oligarchs-yachts-invs/index.html

I doubt any of it will stand up in the courts, but it sets a hell of a precedent. I wonder if the global economy will become a little less global as a result?

I wonder if the global economy will become a little less global as a result of Russia invading Ukraine.

But, it's cute that you're sympathizing with Russian oligarchs.

by Bredo Morstoel Fri 4 Mar 2022 - 9:02

NigelUno wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:Where do you guys stand on seizing super yachts?

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/03/business/russian-oligarchs-yachts-invs/index.html

I doubt any of it will stand up in the courts, but it sets a hell of a precedent. I wonder if the global economy will become a little less global as a result?

I wonder if the global economy will become a little less global as a result of Russia invading Ukraine.

But, it's cute that you're sympathizing with Russian oligarchs.

Were you a piece of shit when Trump was in office?

Just because their leader is being a war criminal jackass, doesn’t mean the Russian people are bad.

by **Trapper Gus** Fri 4 Mar 2022 - 9:04

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:The US has been doing sanctions on individuals for several years, not sure when it started but it has been ongoing since at least sometime in the Obama Administration if not long before then.

I remember the outrage when Obama started. Now it’s very popular thanks to the pervasive “Russians bad” attitudes.

President Obama didn't start it.

Venezuela: Overview of U.S. Sanctions wrote: In 2008, Treasury imposed financial sanctions on two individuals and two travel agencies in Venezuela for financially supporting the radical Lebanon-based Islamic Shiite group Hezbollah. Pursuant to Executive Order (E.O.)

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