Basketball for, WBH

"Need 3-4 minutes per half from a CONFIDENT Loyer. I think Loyer is over the mental hump offensively. He's no longer mind fucked. He's still going to have bad moments defensively but if he plays with confidence we can save Cash a little for those last 5 minutes when we're going to need him. Simpson will take Loyer to the hole if he has a chance, but as long as FL can play tough and force a contested shot, fine. If Izzo won't go to Loyer in the 2nd half, we're fucked and Cassius won't have anything left in crunch time."

This was a bad take, dude. I've already conceded you know more about the x's and o's than me but this is a blind spot in your game. Your fandom of Loyer is getting in the way of your objectivity. You went to a few high school games he played in and became a swill recruiting expert projecting future Spartan greatness. Well Friday you got that old tingly feeling back in the crystal balls when you saw him hit shots in the OSU game. I like Loyer but I'm not sold on him just yet. I've watched almost every MSU basketball game this year and I predicted going in that Izzo should play Cash 38 minutes which means Loyer plays for 2 minutes tops and that's exactly what happened yesterday. If we play 6-8 minutes of Loyer yesterday we lose. The height and length of UofM was too much for him and he coughed the ball up before Tom gave him the hook. In the second half Izzo put his trust in having McQaid bring the ball up the floor allowing Cash to catch a bit of a breather while on the floor. I know you love Loyer and that you see some potential for greatness on down the road but this isn't the year it's going to happen. Cherish the 14 points against OSU because that was awesome. However, if we want to go on a run this year it's going to take about 38 minutes of Cash every game and the best we can hope for from Loyer is that he can gives us a minute or two without causing too much damage. If we are lucky maybe he can put up a few big time baskets against Bradley or do a good enough job where he can give Cash 3-4 minutes of rest at some point. I hope it happens but I'm not holding my breath.

Dude has a good stroke when open. Wisky caught on quick and covered him well, and honestly I don't even remember him playing in the scUM game. Google tells me he played 2 minutes, so pretty much nothing. As we advance I'm pretty sure Winston is going to have to ironman this thing. He's been doing pretty damn good so far, let's see how far this ride goes.

#Teamsteve

Fair game but you completely missed my point. It was not about getting Loyer minutes for the sake of what he brings. It never has been this season. It's about making sure Winston has something left in the tank. I watched the end of the Indiana game - did you? I'm glad he did yesterday and was a bit surprised, and a lot impressed.

In regards to Loyer - he did not forget how to shoot and score overnight. He's going to be fine. He's not there yet. He was mind fucked all year. Hopefully he'll be ready to contribute on both ends next year. Not sure where this take that I love Loyer is coming from. I love winning. I'm rooting for FL just the same as I am every other kid on the team.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Fair game but you completely missed my point. It was not about getting Loyer minutes for the sake of what he brings. It never has been this season. It's about making sure Winston has something left in the tank. I watched the end of the Indiana game - did you? I'm glad he did yesterday and was a bit surprised, and a lot impressed.

In regards to Loyer - he did not forget how to shoot and score overnight. He's going to be fine. He's not there yet. He was mind fucked all year. Hopefully he'll be ready to contribute on both ends next year. Not sure where this take that I love Loyer is coming from. I love winning. I'm rooting for FL just the same as I am every other kid on the team.

I didn't miss your point at all. Just admit it was a bad take. It's okay it happens to the greats.

Steve, I do not think it was a bad take to hope that Loyer could spell Winston for a couple of minutes each half without being a net negative. I did not proclaim that he was up to the task. He didn't seem to be. Izzo did not think he was clearly and thought he could roll with Winston. Izzo was right.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Steve, I do not think it was a bad take to hope that Loyer could spell Winston for a couple of minutes each half without being a net negative. I did not proclaim that he was up to the task. He didn't seem to be. Izzo did not think he was clearly and thought he could roll with Winston. Izzo was right.

I agree and I don't think there's anything bad with hoping for that. Every game I hope that Bingham Jr. can come in off the bench and light it up but I don't ever go around declaring that we 'need' it or 'we are fucked'. Izzo didn't go to Loyer in the second half for a really good reason and we won our third straight over our rivals. We've been running Cash heavy minutes all season and it's worked out well.

NigelUno wrote:#Teamsteve

#teamsteve

Brings better energy

Team Steve on this one

steveschneider wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Steve, I do not think it was a bad take to hope that Loyer could spell Winston for a couple of minutes each half without being a net negative. I did not proclaim that he was up to the task. He didn't seem to be. Izzo did not think he was clearly and thought he could roll with Winston. Izzo was right.

I agree and I don't think there's anything bad with hoping for that. Every game I hope that Bingham Jr. can come in off the bench and light it up but I don't ever go around declaring that we 'need' it or 'we are fucked'. Izzo didn't go to Loyer in the second half for a really good reason and we won our third straight over our rivals. We've been running Cash heavy minutes all season and it's worked out well.

I will happily admit that I did not think Cash would have anything left in the tank and I was wrong. I agree that perhaps I was hoping that Loyer could provide the same kind of minutes he did in the last game against UM without being a net negative. If that is your gotcha guilty as charged.

On the other hand it was apparent Izzo was hoping the same thing. When FL turned the ball over and blew a defensive assignment, he had seen enough and was going to ride with Cash. Like the Mud Dogs in the Bourbon Bowl, it was the last game of the year and time to pull out all the stops. Don't know if I agreed or disagreed with him at that point. Didn't really think about it. I did know though when he told Tracy Wolfson that Kithier wasn't ready to play on the halftime interview, that he was going to ride with upperclassmen the rest of the way.

Also if you want my honest assessment on Loyer (and some of this is inside info), I did hope that he would be able to contribute more this year. I would have certainly predicted that he would have hit some shots for us this year and played a bigger role offensively. I knew he would struggle defensively. I definitely underestimated how 'not ready' he would be to play any sort of defense at all.

I believe that his mindset all year was to not press offensively and basically, not be aggressive. He was going to facilitate only. But if that is what he was hoping to contribute, and he can't play defense, (opinion coming) - what good is he? I think he lost confidence. Again the kid is a great shooter. That is not hyperbole. You don't forget how to shoot overnight. Yet he seemed to.

I thought that in the UM game last Saturday, he looked more confident with the ball in his hands. He launched a 3 with no hesitation and it was halfway down. Hell half his misses had been airballs in previous games. It looked to me like he basically said Fuck it, I'm a shooter, let's shoot. And in my opinion that's exactly what we fucking needed from him all year, to offset his deficiencies elsewhere.

If he were to play minutes in the Dance (maybe he plays a min or two in the first half or if we have a big lead), he'll be a minus defender, weak with the ball in his hands on the dribble, will make freshman mistakes, but if he's open he's going to shoot and he'll probably make a handful of them. That's all he's good for right now (other than resting Winston).

I hope he gets stronger in the offseason and continues to gain confidence and it is my belief that he will be a good 4 year player here. A plus offensive player and a barely adequate defender.

Feel free to bump this and call me out in 2 years if and when I'm wrong.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Also if you want my honest assessment on Loyer (and some of this is inside info), I did hope that he would be able to contribute more this year. I would have certainly predicted that he would have hit some shots for us this year and played a bigger role offensively. I knew he would struggle defensively. I definitely underestimated how 'not ready' he would be to play any sort of defense at all.

I believe that his mindset all year was to not press offensively and basically, not be aggressive. He was going to facilitate only. But if that is what he was hoping to contribute, and he can't play defense, (opinion coming) - what good is he? I think he lost confidence. Again the kid is a great shooter. That is not hyperbole. You don't forget how to shoot overnight. Yet he seemed to.

I thought that in the UM game last Saturday, he looked more confident with the ball in his hands. He launched a 3 with no hesitation and it was halfway down. Hell half his misses had been airballs in previous games. It looked to me like he basically said Fuck it, I'm a shooter, let's shoot. And in my opinion that's exactly what we fucking needed from him all year, to offset his deficiencies elsewhere.

If he were to play minutes in the Dance (maybe he plays a min or two in the first half or if we have a big lead), he'll be a minus defender, weak with the ball in his hands on the dribble, will make freshman mistakes, but if he's open he's going to shoot and he'll probably make a handful of them. That's all he's good for right now (other than resting Winston).

I hope he gets stronger in the offseason and continues to gain confidence and it is my belief that he will be a good 4 year player here. A plus offensive player and a barely adequate defender.

Feel free to bump this and call me out in 2 years if and when I'm wrong.

Good stuff. I just want to be clear, I really enjoy reading your takes and definitely respect your knowledge of the game. I'm hoping in the offseason he makes some improvements and we see a new improved Loyer for 2019-2020.

RE- The facilitator take. FL was just doing what the coaches were asking of him. They don't want a freshman to come in and just start taking step back 3s most times down the court. They want him running certain things for a reason. Wasn't it Foster who hit Ahrens on that cross court pass for 3 in the first half? The same play that Winston ran to McQuaid 3 times later in the game for the same corner 3. These coaches know wtf they are doing.

Of course....but it was almost like he made a conscious decision to not look for his shot - even if it was there for the taking. The staff wouldn't want that. He's a great shooter. If he has an open look, he should take it with confidence. He was definitely playing scared.

Whatever, I suppose that's just my opinion with a titty bit of insight as it has been relayed to me. And doesn't really matter anymore, we just need him to spell Cash as needed for the next few weeks and get better in the offseason.

He may have taken the facilitator mantra from the coaches a bit too far for sure. I'm sure it was tough on him knowing that he's only going to have one shot attempt a game and people will judge him for it if he misses. He's never had to deal with that in his life I'm sure.

I am pretty excited about the future of this Freshman class. Yeah, probably only Henry and Bingham have crazy NBA upside but they're all going to be very good contributors to this program. I love Brown and Bingham's goofyness. And Brown is going to be aggressive as shit on O when he finally figures out the other side. Future is bright man.