Pete Rose Should Be In the HOF

Every pitching change, or change over during a baseball game you now see a gambling commercial. You follow sports writers on twitter and you see them making their betting picks. You sit in a park and you see DraftKings signage.

I think this year would be a good one to forgive Pete Rose and next year would be a good one to put him in the HOF.

No

Pete bet on his own team(s) and according to multiple sources had serious gambling debts to bookies.

Pete Rose was a talented player with a gambling problem and MLB has had long standing rules regarding betting. Pete was a player and then a manager betting on games that he was a a participant and in a position to change the outcome of a game from winning/losing to runs scored and whatever side bets.

If you or me want to bet its OK because we have no influence on the outcome.

GRR Spartan wrote:No

Pete bet on his own team(s) and according to multiple sources had serious gambling debts to bookies.

Pete Rose was a talented player with a gambling problem and MLB has had long standing rules regarding betting. Pete was a player and then a manager betting on games that he was a a participant and in a position to change the outcome of a game from winning/losing to runs scored and whatever side bets.

If you or me want to bet its OK because we have no influence on the outcome.

Two HUGE strikes against Pete Rose:

1) He bet on his own teams when he was the manager so he could influence the outcome of the game.

2) He had huge gambling debts so he could influence the outcome of the game in order to payoff those debts even if he didn't wager on that particular game.

No. He bet on baseball and bet on his team. Move along.

We all know Pete was wrong. It's about saying hey this guy paid the price and lets forgive.

Can't forgive someone that shows a complete lack of remorse for their actions.

steveschneider wrote:We all know Pete was wrong. It's about saying hey this guy paid the price and lets forgive.

The HoF is not about forgiveness. It's not a reclamation project. It doesn't have a 12-step program.

You have OJ Simpson out and about walking freely and you can't put Pete Rose in the HOF? Have some compassion people.

Motown Spartan wrote:Can't forgive someone that shows a complete lack of remorse for their actions.

This right here ^^^

It's all silly and frivolous, really. He was and is one of the most famous baseball players ever to live. I get that he transgressed and there must be consequences, but the Hall of Fame is sort of definitionally incomplete without him in it.

It would be sort of petty to wait until after he dies to put him in, but at that point, no one gains anything from keeping him out, so maybe they will at least do that.

Cameron wrote:It's all silly and frivolous, really. He was and is one of the most famous baseball players ever to live. I get that he transgressed and there must be consequences, but the Hall of Fame is sort of definitionally incomplete without him in it.

It would be sort of petty to wait until after he dies to put him in, but at that point, no one gains anything from keeping him out, so maybe they will at least do that.

I also think it would be incredibly petty to keep Barry Bonds out. This is Willie Mays godson do it for Willy while he's alive.

Players and managers that have desecrated the game should not be recognized or rewarded regardless of how famous they are/were. If so, we should reinstate all of the Fab Five wins, etc.

Motown Spartan wrote:Players and managers that have desecrated the game should not be recognized or rewarded regardless of how famous they are/were. If so, we should reinstate all of the Fab Five wins, etc.

Then rename it to the "Hall of Integrity" or some shit. I believe in truth in advertising.

Cameron wrote:

Motown Spartan wrote:Players and managers that have desecrated the game should not be recognized or rewarded regardless of how famous they are/were. If so, we should reinstate all of the Fab Five wins, etc.

Then rename it to the "Hall of Integrity" or some shit. I believe in truth in advertising.

Then it should also be contained to just a hall.

If Pete Rose can be kept out for gambling, then ought not Ty Cobb be kicked out for being a racist piece of human garbage?

Or is gambling worse than racism vis a vis baseball?

Cameron wrote:If Pete Rose can be kept out for gambling, then ought not Ty Cobb be kicked out for being a racist piece of human garbage?

Or is gambling worse than racism vis a vis baseball?

What you're doing right now is EXACTLY what Pete Rose has done for years and a huge reason why he hasn't been forgiven. It shows that he is truly not remorseful when he plays the whataboutism game.

Cameron wrote:If Pete Rose can be kept out for gambling, then ought not Ty Cobb be kicked out for being a racist piece of human garbage?

Or is gambling worse than racism vis a vis baseball?

If that's the criteria, you'd have to kick out a hell of a lot more than Ty Cobb, including every player and mention of any team, owner, commissioner, etc. prior to the 50s, for supporting a league that was inherently racist and exclusionist. Probably need to ban the Hall Of Fame from the Hall Of Fame.

But regardless, betting on your own team is worse in the sense of actual on-field impact which is what the HOF is supposed to be about.

Good read:

1926 - Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker were permitted by Ban Johnson to resign from baseball near the end of the 1926 season after former pitcher Dutch Leonard charged that Cobb, Speaker and Smoky Joe Wood had joined him just before the 1919 World Series in betting on a game they all knew was fixed. Leonard presented letters and other documents to Johnson, and Johnson thought they would be so potentially damaging to baseball in the wake of the Black Sox scandal that he paid Leonard $20,000 to have them suppressed. Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis exposed the cover-up and the eventual fallout forced Johnson out his job as president of the league he had created. Cobb and Speaker vehemently denied any wrongdoing, Cobb saying that "There has never been a baseball game in my life that I played in that I knew was fixed,? and that the only games he ever bet on were two series games in 1919, when he lost $150 on games thrown by the Sox. He claimed his letters to Leonard had been misunderstood, that he was merely speaking of business investments. Landis took the case under advisement and eventually let both players remain in baseball because they had not been found guilty of fixing any game themselves. It was after this case, though, that Landis instituted the rule mandating that any player found guilty of betting on baseball would be suspended for a year and that any player found to have bet on his own team would be barred for life. Cobb later claimed that the attorneys representing him and Speaker had brokered their reinstatement by threatening to expose further scandal in baseball if the two were not cleared.

Cameron wrote:If Pete Rose can be kept out for gambling, then ought not Ty Cobb be kicked out for being a racist piece of human garbage?

Or is gambling worse than racism vis a vis baseball?

It's situational. Racism is more detestable, but a manager gambling on his own team's games is much more dangerous to the sport than a racist manager or player.

Racism is also worse than alcoholism, but would you rather the pilot on your next flight be racist or drunk?

steveschneider wrote:You have OJ Simpson out and about walking freely and you can't put Pete Rose in the HOF? Have some compassion people.

Shut the fuck up, Steve.

steveschneider wrote:

Cameron wrote:It's all silly and frivolous, really. He was and is one of the most famous baseball players ever to live. I get that he transgressed and there must be consequences, but the Hall of Fame is sort of definitionally incomplete without him in it.

It would be sort of petty to wait until after he dies to put him in, but at that point, no one gains anything from keeping him out, so maybe they will at least do that.

I also think it would be incredibly petty to keep Barry Bonds out. This is Willie Mays godson do it for Willy while he's alive.

I’m all for showing compassion when it’s earned. You’re just soft.

PT 2 on Ty Cobb

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1989-05-21-8902030567-story.html

Ty Cobb was involved in fixing a game and from the post above also gambled on a game he knew was fixed.

Funny how 'baseball justice' works. A few players that fixed a game and gambled on a game are in the HOF and another isn't.

Some players that took PED's are in and others won't be. Just seems like disorganized frontier justice to me.

tGreenWay wrote:

steveschneider wrote:You have OJ Simpson out and about walking freely and you can't put Pete Rose in the HOF? Have some compassion people.

Shut the fuck up, Steve.

tGreenWay wrote:

steveschneider wrote:You have OJ Simpson out and about walking freely and you can't put Pete Rose in the HOF? Have some compassion people.

Shut the fuck up, Steve.

Lol

No Steve, blab as much as you want, we need more stimulus in this joint.

I really, truly, do not care about who is or isn’t in a hall of fame. Maybe it makes me a bad sports fan or something, but entry into a sports museum, or lack of, just doesn’t hit my radar at all.

Bonds way before Pete Rose

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I really, truly, do not care about who is or isn’t in a hall of fame. Maybe it makes me a bad sports fan or something, but entry into a sports museum, or lack of, just doesn’t hit my radar at all.

It means something to Willie Mays. He's expressed it that he wants to see Barry put into the HOF.

It clearly matters to Pete Rose as well. I empathize with Willie Mays. He did so much for the game and endured so much racism I think it's a small ask on his part.

steveschneider wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I really, truly, do not care about who is or isn’t in a hall of fame. Maybe it makes me a bad sports fan or something, but entry into a sports museum, or lack of, just doesn’t hit my radar at all.

It means something to Willie Mays. He's expressed it that he wants to see Barry put into the HOF.

It clearly matters to Pete Rose as well. I empathize with Willie Mays. He did so much for the game and endured so much racism I think it's a small ask on his part.

I’m not Willie Mays Stevie. I’m also not Pete rose.

Will be more famous(is more famous) for not getting in

Shoeless Jo says hi

This take is fire

NigelUno wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I really, truly, do not care about who is or isn’t in a hall of fame. Maybe it makes me a bad sports fan or something, but entry into a sports museum, or lack of, just doesn’t hit my radar at all.

Probably could have just skipped over the thread.

I’m so so sorry to have bothered you Nigel I’m sure this was very tough for you.

NigelUno wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I really, truly, do not care about who is or isn’t in a hall of fame. Maybe it makes me a bad sports fan or something, but entry into a sports museum, or lack of, just doesn’t hit my radar at all.

Probably could have just skipped over the thread.

I've put him down on the spreadsheet as not caring. Hey, at least he made it official and now we know.

Honestly it’s no bother Nigel. It really doesn’t take very long tbh. I just clocked this post in at 17 seconds.

I’m a mod around these parts Nigel. Every thread is on my radar. #forevervigilant