Dion Sanders at Colorado

by **DWags** 2022-12-05, 08:02

Have any of you seen his opening talk to the team? It was interesting. I mean he basically says they were shit. And honestly, they were. Tells them he’s bringing his quarterback. Basically letting all QBs know they’ll need to be in the transfer portal.

I don’t know if it’s the right approach or not. Hell it’s a 1-11 team. But it’s going to be an entertaining tenure there. For better or worse.

by **kingstonlake** 2022-12-05, 08:04

I'm gonna predict this doesn't work out so well overall.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2022-12-05, 08:11

kingstonlake wrote:I'm gonna predict this doesn't work out so well overall.

I agree with this.

I don't think his act is going to translate well to a power 5 conference outside of the southeast real well.

In fact, I don't think it would translate really well to a power 5 conference within the southeast without being tempered a little bit.

by **NigelUno** 2022-12-05, 08:13

Seems like he'd be a better fit at UCF or USF or FAU. I guess Colorado figures they have nothing to lose.

by **Floyd Robertson** 2022-12-05, 08:23

It's going to be entertaining either way. Whether he flames out or he succeeds and in two years he bolts for a bigger stage, a la Tuck, and Colorado fans are beside themselves again.

by **Motown Spartan** 2022-12-05, 08:35

I don’t see his style translating to Power 5 football.

by **MiamiSpartan** 2022-12-05, 08:55

He brings those top recruits to an HBCU on the idea of something bigger than themselves, and then turns around and bolts to Colorado?

Now he's got to sell himself as a coach. Fine, I'm sure he will still get some recruits, as he's charismatic and people like him. But lots of coaches can say that. What else can he sell? Just because he is in AFLAC commercials with Saban doesn't mean he is on a coaching level with Saban. Maybe he will be great, but he will be working with less talent than most of his opponents (at least at first), which isn't something he has had to deal with

by **DWags** 2022-12-05, 08:56

"go on and jump in the portal, cause the more of you jump, the more room you make"

Notice whoever is filming this starts laughing when he says he's bringing his luggage with him.

[tw]1599541937140535296?s=20&t=RFyIVev2Cotp25OO5Cp7EQ[/tw]

by AvgMSUJoe 2022-12-05, 09:43

Jimmys and Joes....

If the bling brings them to Buffs, he will win. Of course he's going to run into what Tuck is hitting... getting "his" kids experienced enough to play power 5, but that for realists and not fans who will be calling for assistant's heads (year 1 and 2) then his head (year 3+) after every turn over.

by **Nordic** 2022-12-05, 17:25

Mark me down as he will succeed. Bowl game by year 2. But no way he stays long if he does.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2022-12-05, 17:41

Went to my first CU game against Utah this year. Awesome city and beautiful stadium and back drop. I think he will do well, feel like the structure is in place. Guy can obviously recruit.

Hopefully he wins some games because the place has potential.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2022-12-05, 17:46

view from the suites

by MSU addict 2022-12-05, 18:58

Mark me down as predicting he will succeed at Colorado. FWIW, I was impressed by his 60 Minutes interview.

Telling the Colorado players to hit the portal is zero risk. In this era of college football he will upgrade ever single position that transfers out with a better transfer in. The guy can flat out recruit, the talent he will bring from Jackson State is serious. His three season at Jackson State 4-3, 11-2, 12-0.

by **kingstonlake** 2022-12-05, 19:21

I'm skeptical of his recruiting potential. It's one thing to recruit big kids to a smaller stage in Florida. It's still there cradle of college football. It's another to convince them to move to Colorado. Let's be real. What is the attraction to Boulder for these kids? I guess he can lock down all that local talent coming out of Denver.

by AvgMSUJoe 2022-12-05, 19:28

Yeah, not sold. Raw talent can overwhelm at an HBCU. 4 and 5 stars still take a while to mature in the power 5.
It will take him 4 years before the next class of croots are "ready". (See tuck)
He better not hire his "forever" assistants cause he will have to throw a couple under the bus to buy enough time to win. (See harbs)

by **Nordic** 2022-12-05, 19:34

kingstonlake wrote:I'm skeptical of his recruiting potential. It's one thing to recruit big kids to a smaller stage in Florida. It's still there cradle of college football. It's another to convince them to move to Colorado. Let's be real. What is the attraction to Boulder for these kids? I guess he can lock down all that local talent coming out of Denver.

Might be right. I think he is going to load up on porthole players.

by **kingstonlake** 2022-12-05, 19:37

Nordic wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:I'm skeptical of his recruiting potential. It's one thing to recruit big kids to a smaller stage in Florida. It's still there cradle of college football. It's another to convince them to move to Colorado. Let's be real. What is the attraction to Boulder for these kids? I guess he can lock down all that local talent coming out of Denver.

Might be right. I think he is going to load up on porthole players.

They were 1-11 this year. I'll assume he'll make them somewhat better. I doubt they'll get worse. Show me a winning in conference record and I'll say that's something tangible.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2022-12-06, 08:41

I wonder how (or if) our memories of him playing impact our assessment of him. Most of us remember him at Florida State, the Falcons.. playing for the Brave. Taking a helicopter from a football game to a playoff baseball game or whatever, then playing for the Cowboys. We remember his lock down coverage, his flashiness, punt returns, etc.

maybe the kids he's recruiting will be impressed with his charisma, etc - most recruits weren't even born yet when he was playing, so I'm wondering if our vision of him is a bit skewed because of that. Dion Sanders at Colorado 2599972566

by **steveschneider** 2022-12-06, 09:13

I liked that he told all the kids to hit the portal. A admission that academics has little to do with it and it’s a big time minor league sports franchise that shares the universities name. I think it’s good he cleared it up for us because everynow and then I still see naive people talk about academics and their program.

by **steveschneider** 2022-12-06, 09:15

MiamiSpartan wrote:He brings those top recruits to an HBCU on the idea of something bigger than themselves, and then turns around and bolts to Colorado?

Now he's got to sell himself as a coach. Fine, I'm sure he will still get some recruits, as he's charismatic and people like him. But lots of coaches can say that. What else can he sell? Just because he is in AFLAC commercials with Saban doesn't mean he is on a coaching level with Saban. Maybe he will be great, but he will be working with less talent than most of his opponents (at least at first), which isn't something he has had to deal with

The best cfb coaches lie to the kids. It’s a good life lesson.

by **steveschneider** 2022-12-08, 09:10

The pathway to success in CFB is talent acquisition and Deion Sanders is showing he is an elite recruiter. Great hire for Colorado.

https://usatodayhss.com/2022/colorado-gets-commitment-from-5-star-wr-winston-watkins-jr-over-200-more-recruits-reach-out

"On Sunday, five-star wide receiver Winston Watkins Jr. (class of 2025) committed to Colorado. Watkins is the cousin of Green Bay Packers wide receiver Sammy Watkins, who’s scored 34 touchdowns in 108 career NFL games and won a Super Bowl."

by **NigelUno** 2022-12-08, 09:44

Yesterday:

Report: Former Bengals Defensive Coordinator Mike Zimmer Taking Same Role At Colorado Under Deion Sanders

Today:

Alabama's Charles Kelly joins Colorado as defensive coordinator

by **steveschneider** 2022-12-08, 09:57

NigelUno wrote:Yesterday:

Report: Former Bengals Defensive Coordinator Mike Zimmer Taking Same Role At Colorado Under Deion Sanders

Today:

Alabama's Charles Kelly joins Colorado as defensive coordinator

Huh, no mention of Mike Zimmer in the second article. Wonder what happened.

by **NigelUno** 2022-12-08, 09:59

steveschneider wrote:
NigelUno wrote:Yesterday:

Report: Former Bengals Defensive Coordinator Mike Zimmer Taking Same Role At Colorado Under Deion Sanders

Today:

Alabama's Charles Kelly joins Colorado as defensive coordinator

Huh, no mention of Mike Zimmer in the second article. Wonder what happened.

Maybe Mel called him.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2022-12-08, 23:05

Would anyone trade Tuck for Coach Prime right now?

by **MiamiSpartan** 2022-12-09, 06:30

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Would anyone trade Tuck for Coach Prime right now?

No. Can you imagine the meltdowns if MSU hired a coach that had never been an assistant, let alone a head coach, at the D1 level, and only had 3 seasons of coaching in college at all?

by **NigelUno** 2022-12-09, 07:19

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Would anyone trade Tuck for Coach Prime right now?

Aflac

by AvgMSUJoe 2022-12-09, 08:51

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Would anyone trade Tuck for Coach Prime right now?
No. Can you imagine the meltdowns if MSU hired a coach that had never been an assistant, let alone a head coach, at the D1 level, and only had 3 seasons of coaching in college at all?

It seems as if a vast majority of spartan fans (in the ether) expect and DEMAND (!!!!) coach Tuck fires X,Y and Z this offseason (to justify his salary) also changes this scheme to this or that, etc etc etc...

So, hell... if this is a short sighted "democracy" of loud mouth idiots, minus well have all flash at the head coaching job. Out source the rest to message board/talk radio goofs.

by **Heat Miser** 2022-12-09, 10:06

AvgMSUJoe wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Would anyone trade Tuck for Coach Prime right now?
No. Can you imagine the meltdowns if MSU hired a coach that had never been an assistant, let alone a head coach, at the D1 level, and only had 3 seasons of coaching in college at all?
It seems as if a vast majority of spartan fans (in the ether) expect and DEMAND (!!!!) coach Tuck fires X,Y and Z this offseason (to justify his salary) also changes this scheme to this or that, etc etc etc...

So, hell... if this is a short sighted "democracy" of loud mouth idiots, minus well have all flash at the head coaching job. Out source the rest to message board/talk radio goofs.

Players who don't perform/aren't talented enough get shown the door under Tucker. Shouldn't his assistants be held to the same standard?

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-12-09, 10:09

Heat Miser wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:
It seems as if a vast majority of spartan fans (in the ether) expect and DEMAND (!!!!) coach Tuck fires X,Y and Z this offseason (to justify his salary) also changes this scheme to this or that, etc etc etc...

So, hell... if this is a short sighted "democracy" of loud mouth idiots, minus well have all flash at the head coaching job. Out source the rest to message board/talk radio goofs.

Players who don't perform/aren't talented enough get shown the door under Tucker. Shouldn't his assistants be held to the same standard?

All the fans see are the results on the field, which Tucker seems to think are due to the talent level of the players. Tucker sees what the coaches are doing every day. His judgement is likely to be more accurate than the fans.

by **Heat Miser** 2022-12-09, 10:20

Trapper Gus wrote:
Heat Miser wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:
It seems as if a vast majority of spartan fans (in the ether) expect and DEMAND (!!!!) coach Tuck fires X,Y and Z this offseason (to justify his salary) also changes this scheme to this or that, etc etc etc...

So, hell... if this is a short sighted "democracy" of loud mouth idiots, minus well have all flash at the head coaching job. Out source the rest to message board/talk radio goofs.

Players who don't perform/aren't talented enough get shown the door under Tucker. Shouldn't his assistants be held to the same standard?

All the fans see are the results on the field, which Tucker seems to think are due to the talent level of the players. Tucker sees what the coaches are doing every day. His judgement is likely to be more accurate than the fans.

Fair enough. But there are plenty of questions around schemes/clock management/play calling/etc. that land square in the coaches laps. If you know your OLine sucks, I don't think calling slow developing running plays on 4th down is very smart for example. Good coaches fit schemes and play calling to the personnel available. When Coach D rearranged the deck chairs on the Titanic, was his judgement more accurate than the fans?

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-12-09, 10:28

Heat Miser wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

All the fans see are the results on the field, which Tucker seems to think are due to the talent level of the players. Tucker sees what the coaches are doing every day. His judgement is likely to be more accurate than the fans.

Fair enough. But there are plenty of questions around schemes/clock management/play calling/etc. that land square in the coaches laps. If you know your OLine sucks, I don't think calling slow developing running plays on 4th down is very smart for example. Good coaches fit schemes and play calling to the personnel available. When Coach D rearranged the deck chairs on the Titanic, was his judgement more accurate than the fans?

IMO Tucker & his coaches are running the schemes they want to have the talent for, and perhaps their opinion on the talent they have is that it doesn't matter much if they make a scheme outside of what they want to get to so as to adjust to the (lack of) talent they have since those wouldn't win any more games?

Also, the players make the on-field adjustments and call the plays that are actually run from the options built into the play called, both on D & O. It could be the players making those calls are making mistakes.

Maybe they run slower plays because the players cannot run the faster ones consistently?

Clock management has been an issue that can be fully blamed on the coaches.

by **Heat Miser** 2022-12-09, 10:36

Trapper Gus wrote:
Heat Miser wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

All the fans see are the results on the field, which Tucker seems to think are due to the talent level of the players. Tucker sees what the coaches are doing every day. His judgement is likely to be more accurate than the fans.

Fair enough. But there are plenty of questions around schemes/clock management/play calling/etc. that land square in the coaches laps. If you know your OLine sucks, I don't think calling slow developing running plays on 4th down is very smart for example. Good coaches fit schemes and play calling to the personnel available. When Coach D rearranged the deck chairs on the Titanic, was his judgement more accurate than the fans?

IMO Tucker & his coaches are running the schemes they want to have the talent for, and perhaps their opinion on the talent they have is that it doesn't matter much if they make a scheme outside of what they want to get to so as to adjust to the (lack of) talent they have since those wouldn't win any more games?

Also, don't forget, the players make the on-field adjustments and call the plays that are actually run from the options built into the play called, both on D & O. It could be the players making those calls are making mistakes.

After a certain # of games, that's on the coaches IMHO. And I don't think Ishbia & Co. are paying ~$16 million/year in coaching salaries to run schemes for imaginary talent. Nobody was saying "we suck" preseason. Coaches or players. Everybody thought this team was pretty damn good. Certainly not 5-7 level. We can certainly trot out the injury excuse. There were some at key positions (e.g. X, Snow, long snapper). Plus the K issues. But there are some legitimate coaching concerns IMHO.

I'm really over Hazelton & the 4-2-5. 3 years & an assload of transfers to raise the talent level, and the D still sucks. The O took a major step back, but maybe it was never that good to begin with & K9 masked it for a year? Dion Sanders at Colorado 2599972566

All of those coaches should be sending him holiday & birthday cards for life.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-12-09, 10:42

Heat Miser wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

IMO Tucker & his coaches are running the schemes they want to have the talent for, and perhaps their opinion on the talent they have is that it doesn't matter much if they make a scheme outside of what they want to get to so as to adjust to the (lack of) talent they have since those wouldn't win any more games?

Also, don't forget, the players make the on-field adjustments and call the plays that are actually run from the options built into the play called, both on D & O. It could be the players making those calls are making mistakes.

After a certain # of games, that's on the coaches IMHO. And I don't think Ishbia & Co. are paying ~$16 million/year in coaching salaries to run schemes for imaginary talent. Nobody was saying "we suck" preseason. Coaches or players. Everybody thought this team was pretty damn good. Certainly not 5-7 level. We can certainly trot out the injury excuse. There were some at key positions (e.g. X, Snow, long snapper). Plus the K issues. But there are some legitimate coaching concerns IMHO.

Certainly, could be the coaches, and Tucker has the misfortune of always having been coaching at places, except for Colorado, where the talent was a given, unlike Dantonio who had to build from the ground up, and thus was probably better at adjusting to the talent he had. Would anyone really take what is said pre-season without a grain of salt? No coach is likely to say, "we are going to suck this year".

by **Heat Miser** 2022-12-09, 11:23

Trapper Gus wrote:
Heat Miser wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

IMO Tucker & his coaches are running the schemes they want to have the talent for, and perhaps their opinion on the talent they have is that it doesn't matter much if they make a scheme outside of what they want to get to so as to adjust to the (lack of) talent they have since those wouldn't win any more games?

Also, don't forget, the players make the on-field adjustments and call the plays that are actually run from the options built into the play called, both on D & O. It could be the players making those calls are making mistakes.

After a certain # of games, that's on the coaches IMHO. And I don't think Ishbia & Co. are paying ~$16 million/year in coaching salaries to run schemes for imaginary talent. Nobody was saying "we suck" preseason. Coaches or players. Everybody thought this team was pretty damn good. Certainly not 5-7 level. We can certainly trot out the injury excuse. There were some at key positions (e.g. X, Snow, long snapper). Plus the K issues. But there are some legitimate coaching concerns IMHO.

Certainly, could be the coaches, and Tucker has the misfortune of always having been coaching at places, except for Colorado, where the talent was a given, unlike Dantonio who had to build from the ground up, and thus was probably better at adjusting to the talent he had. Would anyone really take what is said pre-season without a grain of salt? No coach is likely to say, "we are going to suck this year".

Of course not. But the expectation voiced across the board was an improvement on the #9 final ranking from the previous year (Thorne). Even after the 13-1 Rose Bowl year I don't recall hearing such hyperbole from coaches & players. That is a long way from 5-7. Coleman was talking about how he was going to take over the CFB world. He's clearly very good, but not quite Megatron level yet. They got punched in the mouth at Washington & never recovered. I hope/bet the "enthusiasm" is much more muted going into the '23 season.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-12-09, 11:32

Heat Miser wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Certainly, could be the coaches, and Tucker has the misfortune of always having been coaching at places, except for Colorado, where the talent was a given, unlike Dantonio who had to build from the ground up, and thus was probably better at adjusting to the talent he had. Would anyone really take what is said pre-season without a grain of salt? No coach is likely to say, "we are going to suck this year".

Of course not. But the expectation voiced across the board was an improvement on the #9 final ranking from the previous year (Thorne). Even after the 13-1 Rose Bowl year I don't recall hearing such hyperbole from coaches & players. That is a long way from 5-7. Coleman was talking about how he was going to take over the CFB world. He's clearly very good, but not quite Megatron level yet. They got punched in the mouth at Washington & never recovered. I hope/bet the "enthusiasm" is much more muted going into the '23 season.

Losing the heart of the defense in the first game, followed by losing 4 more top defensive players had a lot to do with it. We all thought that the running backs Tucker brought in would provide enough of a running game to make the offensive scheme work. What with the offensive linemen that left, along with Hayward, the offense regressed more than expected.

So, injuries to key players on defense and Reed on offense, along with not understanding how K9 made Thorn better, or how Harward created more options for Thorn probably made the assessment optimistic.

by **NigelUno** 2022-12-09, 11:39

I don't think Tucker is afraid to change things up. I wouldn't say his changes to this point have been major (same coordinators), but we have added some new coaches. And he's flipped a lot of administrative staff. I think he's been at enough places that he understands it all (eventually) falls on the head coach.

by MSU addict 2022-12-09, 11:46

FWIW, the Vegas betting line on this seasons win total was 7.5. Any objective person would not reasonably expected for MSU to be better than last year.

Five wins is a long way from 7.5 though, especially when you factor in the "gimme" games.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-12-09, 11:52

MSU addict wrote:FWIW, the Vegas betting line on this seasons win total was 7.5. Any objective person would not reasonably expected for MSU to be better than last year.

Five wins is a long way from 7.5 though, especially when you factor in the "gimme" games.

Well 2 games difference, so not all that far.

But not so much when the early key injuries on defense (and Reed & Pepper) plus the loss of 8 players for the last 4 games are factored in.

MSU was one missed kick from 6-6 and having the second-string defense in for the games before the Michigan game might mean one of those could have been a win.

by AvgMSUJoe 2022-12-09, 15:40

Heat Miser wrote:When Coach D rearranged the deck chairs on the Titanic, was his judgement more accurate than the fans?

At the beginning, when there was a pretty loud call to fire narduzzi, coach D's judgement was spot on.
Throwing a coach under the bus gets you nowhere except a re-start on the learning curve. It's all "Jimmys and Joes". Bama's croots could make John L look like a HOFer. Hell, look at harbs, you could argue he's finally living up to the talent level he always had.

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