With gun control a very hot topic...

by **The Pantry** Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:30 pm

Armed with rifles, a ‘mudroots’ Detroit group wards off crime

by AvgMSUJoe Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:39 pm

I often thought the NRA should be huge in the inner city... but when a licensed black guy gets shot telling the cops about his legal gun and the nra does NOTHING about it, the "pro-gun" lobby can fuck themselves. Because they are actually just racist shitheads.

The quickest way to new gun legislation would be for the black panthers to show up at white rural polling places armed to the teeth.

by AvgMSUJoe Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:40 pm

https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act

by **Motown Spartan** Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:58 pm

The new Sons of Anarchy.

by **The Pantry** Sun Feb 19, 2023 10:33 am

Motown Spartan wrote:The new Sons of Anarchy.

Never watched the show. Was it about the Revolutionary War?

by **Turtleneck** Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:13 pm

The Pantry wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:The new Sons of Anarchy.
Never watched the show. Was it about the Revolutionary War?

Yes, and it was celebrated for its accuracy and authenticity. The American Historical Association gave it high praise on several occasions.

by AvgMSUJoe Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:28 pm

[tw]1628859520985321472[/tw]

by RQA Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:55 am

The Pantry wrote:
Armed with rifles, a ‘mudroots’ Detroit group wards off crime

Sound like some good guys.

by TravelinMan Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:13 pm

AvgMSUJoe wrote:[tw]1628859520985321472[/tw]

I don't even know if the nut job that shot up MSU was right handed, let alone politically right.

And you probably don't either.

So this story is utter BS.

by **NigelUno** Fri Feb 24, 2023 4:22 pm

TravelinMan wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:[tw]1628859520985321472[/tw]

I don't even know if the nut job that shot up MSU was right handed, let alone politically right.

And you probably don't either.

So this story is utter BS.

It's not that difficult to read the title.

by **StylesGShmooth** Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:12 pm

TravelinMan wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:[tw]1628859520985321472[/tw]

I don't even know if the nut job that shot up MSU was right handed, let alone politically right.

And you probably don't either.

So this story is utter BS.

Think you're ignoring the 'extremists' part. Don't think that guy has any political or social agenda.

by TravelinMan Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:51 pm

StylesGShmooth wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

I don't even know if the nut job that shot up MSU was right handed, let alone politically right.

And you probably don't either.

So this story is utter BS.

Think you're ignoring the 'extremists' part. Don't think that guy has any political or social agenda.

So some mass shootings aren’t “extremist?”

Interesting take…

by **NigelUno** Fri Feb 24, 2023 7:12 pm

TravelinMan wrote:
StylesGShmooth wrote:

Think you're ignoring the 'extremists' part. Don't think that guy has any political or social agenda.

So some mass shootings aren’t “extremist?”

Interesting take…

Still didn't figure it out?

by **kingstonlake** Fri Feb 24, 2023 7:54 pm

NigelUno wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

So some mass shootings aren’t “extremist?”

Interesting take…

Still didn't figure it out?

With gun control a very hot topic... 1494614055

by **Motown Spartan** Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:15 pm

LOL…if you can’t figure it out, you might be an extremist.

by **Trapper Gus** Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:15 am

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/democrats-push-michigan-gun-reforms-heres-what-laws-are-now

Gun laws in Michigan, current day. Right now in 2023.

by TravelinMan Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:49 am

Do we know how many guns are in Michigan? No. Michigan has no system of gun registration. Retail firearms sellers are required to keep a record of all gun sales. Handgun sales must be reported to law enforcement, but there’s no record of private sales or guns that have been in families for years.

I'm going to slightly disagree on this one. All new gun sales are registered. Private sales are legally required to be registered. Guns that have been in families for years - when the owner dies, the inheritor - be that a wife, son, daughter, friend, neighbor, or whomever, is legally required to register the firearm.

So the only reason we wouldn't know an exact number is because some people aren't following the law.

It's not like the registration process is broken or bad - it's just that there are folks who either intentionally or not - don't follow it. I don't know how you fix that?

by **Turtleneck** Sat Mar 04, 2023 10:25 am

TravelinMan wrote:
StylesGShmooth wrote:

Think you're ignoring the 'extremists' part. Don't think that guy has any political or social agenda.

So some mass shootings aren’t “extremist?”

Interesting take…

It’s called political violence. It’s not hard to think this through.

by **kingstonlake** Sat Mar 04, 2023 10:30 am

TravelinMan wrote:Do we know how many guns are in Michigan? No. Michigan has no system of gun registration. Retail firearms sellers are required to keep a record of all gun sales. Handgun sales must be reported to law enforcement, but there’s no record of private sales or guns that have been in families for years.

I'm going to slightly disagree on this one. All new gun sales are registered. Private sales are legally required to be registered. Guns that have been in families for years - when the owner dies, the inheritor - be that a wife, son, daughter, friend, neighbor, or whomever, is legally required to register the firearm.

So the only reason we wouldn't know an exact number is because some people aren't following the law.

It's not like the registration process is broken or bad - it's just that there are folks who either intentionally or not - don't follow it. I don't know how you fix that?

A two year renewable registration. Something similar to vehicle registration. Don’t renew and you’ll be mailed a ticket or fined or drivers license suspended. Also enforceable via traffic stop.

by **Trapper Gus** Sat Mar 04, 2023 10:42 am

TravelinMan wrote:Do we know how many guns are in Michigan? No. Michigan has no system of gun registration. Retail firearms sellers are required to keep a record of all gun sales. Handgun sales must be reported to law enforcement, but there’s no record of private sales or guns that have been in families for years.

I'm going to slightly disagree on this one. All new gun sales are registered. Private sales are legally required to be registered. Guns that have been in families for years - when the owner dies, the inheritor - be that a wife, son, daughter, friend, neighbor, or whomever, is legally required to register the firearm.

So the only reason we wouldn't know an exact number is because some people aren't following the law.

It's not like the registration process is broken or bad - it's just that there are folks who either intentionally or not - don't follow it. I don't know how you fix that?

Haven't seem.anything yet that says that gun dealers have to file gun sales info with the state as to who has bought a gun, only that the gun dealer has to keep a record.

Anyway this isn't anything like requiring that gun owners registor their guns.

A serious gun registration would mean that law enforcement, using a data base, would know within minutes of find a gun with a S/N, who the owner is.

by AvgMSUJoe Sat Mar 04, 2023 10:48 am

TravelinMan wrote:Do we know how many guns are in Michigan? No. Michigan has no system of gun registration. Retail firearms sellers are required to keep a record of all gun sales. Handgun sales must be reported to law enforcement, but there’s no record of private sales or guns that have been in families for years.

I'm going to slightly disagree on this one. All new gun sales are registered. Private sales are legally required to be registered. Guns that have been in families for years - when the owner dies, the inheritor - be that a wife, son, daughter, friend, neighbor, or whomever, is legally required to register the firearm.

So the only reason we wouldn't know an exact number is because some people aren't following the law.

It's not like the registration process is broken or bad - it's just that there are folks who either intentionally or not - don't follow it. I don't know how you fix that?

I have 6 guns including a Mauser from WW2... not one was registered or licensed. All inherited or gifted from family. Whatever number officially is × it by 4.

by **Jake from State Farm** Sat Mar 04, 2023 10:50 am

AvgMSUJoe wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:Do we know how many guns are in Michigan? No. Michigan has no system of gun registration. Retail firearms sellers are required to keep a record of all gun sales. Handgun sales must be reported to law enforcement, but there’s no record of private sales or guns that have been in families for years.

I'm going to slightly disagree on this one. All new gun sales are registered. Private sales are legally required to be registered. Guns that have been in families for years - when the owner dies, the inheritor - be that a wife, son, daughter, friend, neighbor, or whomever, is legally required to register the firearm.

So the only reason we wouldn't know an exact number is because some people aren't following the law.

It's not like the registration process is broken or bad - it's just that there are folks who either intentionally or not - don't follow it. I don't know how you fix that?
I have 6 guns including a Mauser from WW2... not one was registered or licensed. All inherited or gifted from family. Whatever number officially is × it by 4.

The only ones I have registered are the pistols. Anything else isn't registered and I don't think they ever needed to be registered.

by **Trapper Gus** Sat Mar 04, 2023 10:53 am

Jake from State Farm wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:
I have 6 guns including a Mauser from WW2... not one was registered or licensed. All inherited or gifted from family. Whatever number officially is × it by 4.

The only ones I have registered are the pistols. Anything else isn't registered and I don't think they ever needed to be registered.

Is there such a thing in Michigan as a State gun registration card? Ignorant TG asking.

by **Jake from State Farm** Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:01 am

Trapper Gus wrote:
Jake from State Farm wrote:

The only ones I have registered are the pistols. Anything else isn't registered and I don't think they ever needed to be registered.

Is there such a thing in Michigan as a State gun registration card? Ignorant TG asking.

The only one I know about is for pistols. It's in triplicate, one copy for the buyer, one for the seller and one for the local police.

by TravelinMan Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:40 am

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:Do we know how many guns are in Michigan? No. Michigan has no system of gun registration. Retail firearms sellers are required to keep a record of all gun sales. Handgun sales must be reported to law enforcement, but there’s no record of private sales or guns that have been in families for years.

I'm going to slightly disagree on this one. All new gun sales are registered. Private sales are legally required to be registered. Guns that have been in families for years - when the owner dies, the inheritor - be that a wife, son, daughter, friend, neighbor, or whomever, is legally required to register the firearm.

So the only reason we wouldn't know an exact number is because some people aren't following the law.

It's not like the registration process is broken or bad - it's just that there are folks who either intentionally or not - don't follow it. I don't know how you fix that?

Haven't seem.anything yet that says that gun dealers have to file gun sales info with the state as to who has bought a gun, only that the gun dealer has to keep a record.

Anyway this isn't anything like requiring that gun owners registor their guns.

A serious gun registration would mean that law enforcement, using a data base, would know within minutes of find a gun with a S/N, who the owner is.

The dealer must keep it on file. It is the purchaser who must submit the paper work to the local police department, who enters it into the state computer.

by TravelinMan Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:41 am

Jake from State Farm wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:
I have 6 guns including a Mauser from WW2... not one was registered or licensed. All inherited or gifted from family. Whatever number officially is × it by 4.

The only ones I have registered are the pistols. Anything else isn't registered and I don't think they ever needed to be registered.

I believe that is correct.

by TravelinMan Sat Mar 04, 2023 12:09 pm

Jake from State Farm wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:
I have 6 guns including a Mauser from WW2... not one was registered or licensed. All inherited or gifted from family. Whatever number officially is × it by 4.

The only ones I have registered are the pistols. Anything else isn't registered and I don't think they ever needed to be registered.

Anything that they would want to restrict has to be registered.

by Pervis Muldoon Sat Mar 04, 2023 12:19 pm

I have a Taurus Raging Judge Magnum five-shot revolver loaded with .454 Casulls. On the third Tuesday of every other month, I fire a round at approximately a 35-degree angle in a random direction, just to keep my family safe.

by TravelinMan Sat Mar 04, 2023 12:23 pm

Pervis Muldoon wrote:I have a Taurus Raging Judge Magnum five-shot revolver loaded with .454 Casulls. On the third Tuesday of every other month, I fire a round at approximately a 35-degree angle in a random direction, just to keep my family safe.

This is a bad physics question. Pervis has a revolver that shoots a 250 grain bullet with a muzzle velocity of over 1,900 feet per second. If he shoots 12 times at a 35 degree angle over the course of a year, how long before he's arrested by the police?

by **GRR Spartan** Sat Mar 04, 2023 3:02 pm

Dealers records as shown in states as Virginia and Texas don’t mean squat. Both on the state and Federal level, dealers have fought tooth and nail to go be required to scan or file in the forms on computer so they can be sent to the state in a timely manor. (Like 30 days)

The GOP has successfully chopped ATF funding to the bare minimum so gun sale audits are between maybe and never. Ammunition sales reports are untouchable.

I also believe you require gun sales to be registered when they take place at gun show between “private” citizens.

Buy a car, truck, boat, 4 wheeler or snowmobile it needs to be registered with the state.

Why not guns other than there are folks who to date want to talk about Founders and rights. I got no issue with anyone having 6 muskets, 144 lead shot and enough powder for 144 rounds.

I do have issues with the whack jobs who have multiple pistols with additional magazines that can hold double what the magazine supplied by the factory. I have a problem with the guy with 2-4-6 AK ‘s with a dozen or more expanded magazines and 1000+ rounds of ammo.

Those groups have a moment and start having dangerous ideas from kidnapping a governor to killing dozens from a hotel room in Las Vegas.

by **Trapper Gus** Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:06 pm

So with the former answers, for a handgun in Michigan, how long does it take the police from seeing the serial number, to identify the registered owner?

Second question, do gun owners need to pay a regular fee to keep their guns legal, like car license plates?

by TravelinMan Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:31 pm

Trapper Gus wrote:So with the former answers, for a handgun in Michigan, how long does it take the police from seeing the serial number, to identify the registered owner?

Second question, do gun owners need to pay a regular fee to keep their guns legal, like car license plates?

If they’re in front of a computer, timing should be less than 30 seconds.

No fees required. Can’t discriminate against the Poors.

by **Trapper Gus** Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:57 am

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:So with the former answers, for a handgun in Michigan, how long does it take the police from seeing the serial number, to identify the registered owner?

Second question, do gun owners need to pay a regular fee to keep their guns legal, like car license plates?

If they’re in front of a computer, timing should be less than 30 seconds.

No fees required. Can’t discriminate against the Poors.

DO you know that the police have that type of access in their vehicles, like the have for vehicle & driver licenses, or are you just guessing?

The "poors" is a complete BS answer, there are yearly fees for vehicles, there should be for guns, too.

by **DWags** Sun Mar 05, 2023 10:37 am

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

If they’re in front of a computer, timing should be less than 30 seconds.

No fees required. Can’t discriminate against the Poors.

DO you know that the police have that type of access in their vehicles, like the have for vehicle & driver licenses, or are you just guessing?

The "poors" is a complete BS answer, there are yearly fees for vehicles, there should be for guns, too.

If they don’t, it would be very possible to acquire. I know it wouldn’t be cheap or easy to develop the program then backlog numbers, but once it’s caught up it’s easy to register owner and weapon when they buy them.

by TravelinMan Sun Mar 05, 2023 11:09 am

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

If they’re in front of a computer, timing should be less than 30 seconds.

No fees required. Can’t discriminate against the Poors.

DO you know that the police have that type of access in their vehicles, like the have for vehicle & driver licenses, or are you just guessing?

The "poors" is a complete BS answer, there are yearly fees for vehicles, there should be for guns, too.

I have no idea what computer access police have in their vehicles, nor will I speculate.

I can tell you from first hand experience that if they're in front of a computer, they can login and check within about 30 seconds, depending on how well they type and navigate a mouse.

The Poors are not a BS excuse. Which amendment protects your right to drive? Oh, that's right, there isn't one.

How many times have we heard about voter ID being racists/classist against the Poors? At the moment, bearing arms is a protected right, same as voting. You can't complain about fees for one and demand fees for the other.

by TravelinMan Sun Mar 05, 2023 11:11 am

DWags wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

DO you know that the police have that type of access in their vehicles, like the have for vehicle & driver licenses, or are you just guessing?

The "poors" is a complete BS answer, there are yearly fees for vehicles, there should be for guns, too.

If they don’t, it would be very possible to acquire. I know it wouldn’t be cheap or easy to develop the program then backlog numbers, but once it’s caught up it’s easy to register owner and weapon when they buy them.

In the state of Michigan, this database already exists. Police have access to this registration information via a computer.

There are other states who actually have laws AGAINST collecting this information. So your mileage may vary.

by **Trapper Gus** Sun Mar 05, 2023 12:06 pm

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

DO you know that the police have that type of access in their vehicles, like the have for vehicle & driver licenses, or are you just guessing?

The "poors" is a complete BS answer, there are yearly fees for vehicles, there should be for guns, too.

I have no idea what computer access police have in their vehicles, nor will I speculate.

I can tell you from first hand experience that if they're in front of a computer, they can login and check within about 30 seconds, depending on how well they type and navigate a mouse.

The Poors are not a BS excuse. Which amendment protects your right to drive? Oh, that's right, there isn't one.

How many times have we heard about voter ID being racists/classist against the Poors? At the moment, bearing arms is a protected right, same as voting. You can't complain about fees for one and demand fees for the other.

Seems like since it is a requirement that handguns are registered, then the owner should, by law, be required to carry their copy of the registration if they are carrying the gun, and the police data systems should be in place to verify ownership and registration when someone is stopped carrying a gun.

The 2nd has a certain cachet with the current court, however they still allow regulation, including the requirement of paying a fee for registration, at least for concealed carry including a renewal every 5 years, in Michigan. Unless you know for sure the court has ruled otherwise there is not, at this time, any Constitutional issue being addressed.

by TravelinMan Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:03 pm

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

I have no idea what computer access police have in their vehicles, nor will I speculate.

I can tell you from first hand experience that if they're in front of a computer, they can login and check within about 30 seconds, depending on how well they type and navigate a mouse.

The Poors are not a BS excuse. Which amendment protects your right to drive? Oh, that's right, there isn't one.

How many times have we heard about voter ID being racists/classist against the Poors? At the moment, bearing arms is a protected right, same as voting. You can't complain about fees for one and demand fees for the other.

Seems like since it is a requirement that handguns are registered, then the owner should, by law, be required to carry their copy of the registration if they are carrying the gun, and the police data systems should be in place to verify ownership and registration when someone is stopped carrying a gun.

The 2nd has a certain cachet with the current court, however they still allow regulation, including the requirement of paying a fee for registration, at least for concealed carry including a renewal every 5 years, in Michigan. Unless you know for sure the court has ruled otherwise there is not, at this time, any Constitutional issue being addressed.

What problem are you solving with this "solution?"

As for fees.... I can afford it. Wealthy people can afford it. The Poors can't. So it's discrimination, classist, racist, etc. And again, I would ask, what problem does this solve and how does it prevent mass shootings?

by **Trapper Gus** Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:24 pm

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Seems like since it is a requirement that handguns are registered, then the owner should, by law, be required to carry their copy of the registration if they are carrying the gun, and the police data systems should be in place to verify ownership and registration when someone is stopped carrying a gun.

The 2nd has a certain cachet with the current court, however they still allow regulation, including the requirement of paying a fee for registration, at least for concealed carry including a renewal every 5 years, in Michigan. Unless you know for sure the court has ruled otherwise there is not, at this time, any Constitutional issue being addressed.

What problem are you solving with this "solution?"

As for fees.... I can afford it. Wealthy people can afford it. The Poors can't. So it's discrimination, classist, racist, etc. And again, I would ask, what problem does this solve and how does it prevent mass shootings?

I'm going to guess that someone who cannot afford a reasonable registration fee also cannot afford the price of a handgun, just saying.

To what purpose?

To insure that all guns are tracable. Part of the registration might be 6 bullets which have been fired from said gun for possible gun "fingerprinting" for bullets recovered in possible crimes.

by TravelinMan Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:31 pm

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

What problem are you solving with this "solution?"

As for fees.... I can afford it. Wealthy people can afford it. The Poors can't. So it's discrimination, classist, racist, etc. And again, I would ask, what problem does this solve and how does it prevent mass shootings?

I'm going to guess that someone who cannot afford a reasonable registration fee also cannot afford the price of a handgun, just saying.

To what purpose?

To insure that all guns are tracable. Part of the registration might be 6 bullets which have been fired from said gun for possible gun "fingerprinting" for bullets recovered in possible crimes.

As for the fees... I mean.... I get it. But I'm telling you, there's a history of racist gun registration, and you're gonna struggle to implement a registration fee in this day and age.

To truly make guns "traceable" you'd need to implement this at a Federal level. There are 8 states where gun registration is illegal. You're going to have not only a tremendous 2A fight, but a state's rights fight. Good luck with that one.

As for your "bullet fingerprinting" idea - I think you've been watching too much CSI. LOL!

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