Should we talk about Duke?

by **Turtleneck** 30/03/15, 02:52 pm

Duke handled MSU pretty well in November, but both teams have improved since that early meeting. However, MSU did some good things in that game. They shot 50% from the field and out-rebounded Duke 35-25. Has MSU improved enough in other areas to slow down Duke's offense? One thing is for sure, Duke will probably not represent the toughest defense MSU has seen in the tournament. To get to the Final Four, MSU has had to play some very solid defensive teams. Hopefully they can use that to their advantage in the Duke game.

One thing that I found interesting is the distribution of minutes between the two teams. I found this interesting in the Oklahoma game as well. Duke uses a short bench, whereas MSU is deep by comparison. MSU fans probably do not think about this team as being especially deep compared to some past teams, but MSU appears to have an advantage in this area.

Duke has really relied on its starting five to carry most of the workload since their opening game against Robert Morris. Against SDSU, no non-starter player more than 10 minutes. Against Utah, Duke played an 8 man rotation but it was really a 6-7 player rotation. One non-starter played 20 minutes, while two more played 9 and 5. The bench was equally as short against Gonzaga, with one non-starter getting 20 minutes and two more getting 8 and 3. Compare that with MSU's bench minutes. Against UGA, MSU played 10 with four non-starters over 10 minutes. However, Schilling only played four minutes so it was a necessity to go deeper into the bench for minutes. Against UVA, a grinding game, MSU was able to use a 9 man rotation and got 10 plus minutes from everybody. Izzo was masterful in working that bench against UVA. Oklahoma saw MSU use a short bench. 10 players saw minutes, but only 7 were over 10. Against Louisville, eight players were over 10 minutes.

The point is that MSU can go deep into its bench, at least compared to Duke, and find minutes. Duke appears to be a bit more limited and is going to want to keep the game to where it only needs minutes from 6-7 players. I am not sure what kind of strategy - if anything - this means for MSU, but MSU certainly appears to be the deeper team.

by **steveschneider** 30/03/15, 02:59 pm

I disagree, Duke's defense is very underrated. Watching them against Gonzaga they were forcing a lot of turn overs in their half court sets. Granted Gonzaga couldn't hit a f'n layup and they were allowing the 3pt shoot to a team that was ice cold.

We have to protect the ball well and avoid the tunrovers for TDs.

Regarding your comment of Duke's bench, the few games I've watched Plumlee has been very effective off the bench. But I saw him make a few big plays against Gonzaga.

I just think to win it we gotta avoid the turn overs, the dumb fouls and we are going to need some more "marvin clark off the bench" type of moments where more players step up. Gavin Schilling has been incredible this tournament in terms of growth. That being said, I think this game we really need our two bigs to stay out of foul trouble and to be out on the floor for most of the game. Denzel as well.

Fuck DUKE

by **Floyd Robertson** 30/03/15, 03:00 pm

The depth of MSU's bench was hammered home pretty well by Lundquist's partner Jim Spanarkel.

by Guest 30/03/15, 03:03 pm

Fuck Duke.

by **xsanguine** 30/03/15, 03:03 pm

I haven't watched Duke outside of our game but a lot of talking heads on sports radio seem to think this year's Duke defense is uncharacteristic of most Coach K teams.... meaning they're actually pretty decent defensively this year.

by **Rocinante** 30/03/15, 03:04 pm

steveschneider wrote:I disagree, Duke's defense is very underrated. Watching them against Gonzaga they were forcing a lot of turn overs in their half court sets. Granted Gonzaga couldn't hit a f'n layup and they were allowing the 3pt shoot to a team that was ice cold.

We have to protect the ball well and avoid the tunrovers for TDs.

Regarding your comment of Duke's bench, the few games I've watched Plumlee has been very effective off the bench. But I saw him make a few big plays against Gonzaga.

I just think to win it we gotta avoid the turn overs, the dumb fouls and we are going to need some more "marvin clark off the bench" type of moments where more players step up. Gavin Schilling has been incredible this tournament in terms of growth. That being said, I think this game we really need our two bigs to stay out of foul trouble and to be out on the floor for most of the game. Denzel as well.

Fuck DUKE

I thought Schilling was just brought in to foul.

by **steveschneider** 30/03/15, 03:07 pm

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2015/03/30/duke-basketball-michigan-state-krzyzewski/70678320/

Coach K starting his mind games, praising our team and program. The master of false praise, meanwhile he'll start working the refs and NCAA to call a tight game. The guy is a phony son of a bitch, we should make this chalk board material that the only way to earn his respect is to take that turds team down. Fuck DUKE!

by **InTenSity** 30/03/15, 03:13 pm

steveschneider wrote:http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2015/03/30/duke-basketball-michigan-state-krzyzewski/70678320/

Coach K starting his mind games, praising our team and program. The master of false praise, meanwhile he'll start working the refs and NCAA to call a tight game. The guy is a phony son of a bitch, we should make this chalk board material that the only way to earn his respect is to take that turds team down. Fuck DUKE!

I haven't read the article, but I'm assuming he is saying something to this effect.

MSU is a great team, a very tough team, they'll rough you up in the paint and hustle after the ball. They're a bit more physical than a lot of other teams we are used to playing, and I'll ahve to get my guys ready for that. I've got to instill a toughness to my team and not rely on the reffing in this game because some of the things they do aren't being called as much as they used to. We're looking for a good hard fight against an excellently coached MSU team.

by **Turtleneck** 30/03/15, 03:15 pm

xsanguine wrote:I haven't watched Duke outside of our game but a lot of talking heads on sports radio seem to think this year's Duke defense is uncharacteristic of most Coach K teams.... meaning they're actually pretty decent defensively this year.

I am not saying they play poor defense, but I am say that defensively I am not sure they are better than UVA or Louisville. In terms of defensive efficiency, UVA and Louisville are top 10, and Oklahoma is top 15. Again, Duke plays good defense but it might not be will the best defensive team MSU has faced. Duke will represent a challenge on defense. That's for sure. But MSU has also been challenged by some very good defensive teams in this Tournament.

by **Blanch32** 30/03/15, 03:24 pm

All depends if they get the refs again. In 2013, their no name white dude center drew 9 fouls out on 10 touches against Payne and nix.

Therefore, the refs will decide this one... Not duke

by **Blanch32** 30/03/15, 03:26 pm

.....and I'm not scared of their guards attacking the passing labes. Think we learned a ton against l ville

by **Turtleneck** 30/03/15, 03:27 pm

Blanch32 wrote:.....and I'm not scared of their guards attacking the passing labes. Think we learned a ton against l ville

by **steveschneider** 30/03/15, 03:37 pm

Turtleneck wrote:
xsanguine wrote:I haven't watched Duke outside of our game but a lot of talking heads on sports radio seem to think this year's Duke defense is uncharacteristic of most Coach K teams.... meaning they're actually pretty decent defensively this year.

I am not saying they play poor defense, but I am say that defensively I am not sure they are better than UVA or Louisville. In terms of defensive efficiency, UVA and Louisville are top 10, and Oklahoma is top 15. Again, Duke plays good defense but it will not be the best defensive team MSU has faced. Duke will represent a challenge on defense, but MSU has also been challenged by some very good defensive teams in this Tournament.

This is going to be the best offense we've faced yet. How do we stop them? They can shoot, drive, post up, you double up they kick it out for an open three pointer.

I think the key is to stay out of foul trouble and on the other end of the floor work them just like we did Louisville. Keep attacking the basket, create shots by driving the ball and protect the ball.

FUCK Duke

by **InTenSity** 30/03/15, 03:38 pm

steveschneider wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:

I am not saying they play poor defense, but I am say that defensively I am not sure they are better than UVA or Louisville. In terms of defensive efficiency, UVA and Louisville are top 10, and Oklahoma is top 15. Again, Duke plays good defense but it will not be the best defensive team MSU has faced. Duke will represent a challenge on defense, but MSU has also been challenged by some very good defensive teams in this Tournament.

This is going to be the best offense we've faced yet. How do we stop them? They can shoot, drive, post up, you double up they kick it out for an open three pointer.

I think the key is to stay out of foul trouble and on the other end of the floor work them just like we did Louisville. Keep attacking the basket, create shots by driving the ball and protect the ball.

FUCK Duke

Duke lost to Miami, in Durham, this year. They aren't invincible.

by **steveschneider** 30/03/15, 03:39 pm

InTenSity wrote:
steveschneider wrote:http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2015/03/30/duke-basketball-michigan-state-krzyzewski/70678320/

Coach K starting his mind games, praising our team and program. The master of false praise, meanwhile he'll start working the refs and NCAA to call a tight game. The guy is a phony son of a bitch, we should make this chalk board material that the only way to earn his respect is to take that turds team down. Fuck DUKE!

I haven't read the article, but I'm assuming he is saying something to this effect.

MSU is a great team, a very tough team, they'll rough you up in the paint and hustle after the ball. They're a bit more physical than a lot of other teams we are used to playing, and I'll ahve to get my guys ready for that. I've got to instill a toughness to my team and not rely on the reffing in this game because some of the things they do aren't being called as much as they used to. We're looking for a good hard fight against an excellently coached MSU team.

Duke drew a lot of bull shit fouls against Utah and Gonzaga.

That play where the announcers were shitting their selves when Jones threw the ball on the player on the ground only happened because that player got hip checked. He didn't just stumble, he got plenty of help.

FUCK DUKE

by **Rocinante** 30/03/15, 03:41 pm

Blanch is right (I can't believe I said that). The way the game is called will have a huge impact. The refs have largely let MSU and UVA/OK/LOUIS play, probably because the physicality was coming from both teams. If Duke wants to play finesse and crybaby, MSU might get buttfucked by the refs.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 30/03/15, 03:43 pm

Duke sucks.. and they cheat.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 30/03/15, 03:46 pm

What's there to talk about. Duke is Duke. They're on TV more than Leave it to Beaver. reruns.

by **The_Dude** 30/03/15, 03:50 pm

We can play with Duke. Trice, Valentine and Forbes are scorers. Forbes hand was broken last time we played and Clark was hurt too.

Duke has zero bench scoring but their starters are really really good.

MSU has to defend without fouling (lol doing this vs Dook) and not turn the ball over. If we make the same amount of mental mistakes vs Duke that we did vs Ville we will get ran. Hopefully we dont lay two mental eggs in a row.

by **InTenSity** 30/03/15, 03:54 pm

Rocinante wrote:Blanch is right (I can't believe I said that). The way the game is called will have a huge impact. The refs have largely let MSU and UVA/OK/LOUIS play, probably because the physicality was coming from both teams. If Duke wants to play finesse and crybaby, MSU might get buttfucked by the refs.

Did you just call me Blanch, or did Blanch say that in another thread?

by LoneWolfSparty 30/03/15, 03:57 pm

I just took a huge Duke. I flushed the Duke down the toilet after wiping. Duke is stinky.

by **Turtleneck** 30/03/15, 04:04 pm

steveschneider wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:

I am not saying they play poor defense, but I am say that defensively I am not sure they are better than UVA or Louisville. In terms of defensive efficiency, UVA and Louisville are top 10, and Oklahoma is top 15. Again, Duke plays good defense but it will not be the best defensive team MSU has faced. Duke will represent a challenge on defense, but MSU has also been challenged by some very good defensive teams in this Tournament.

This is going to be the best offense we've faced yet. How do we stop them? They can shoot, drive, post up, you double up they kick it out for an open three pointer.

I think the key is to stay out of foul trouble and on the other end of the floor work them just like we did Louisville. Keep attacking the basket, create shots by driving the ball and protect the ball.

FUCK Duke

Their strength is their offense. Their offensive efficiency and PPG are top 5. Okafor represents a big problem not just because he is great, but he draws so much attention that their fantastic perimeter shooters always find the space they need (which is not much). They still scored 70+ in 3 of the 4 games they lost. However, they are beatable. MSU is proving to be a very good defensive team so they should be able to make it interesting.

by **Blanch32** 30/03/15, 04:25 pm

Let them jack threes to beat us. They were broke last game and I expect the same. Oh and foul okafor. Dude is flat broke from the line.

by **Turtleneck** 30/03/15, 04:28 pm

Blanch32 wrote:Dude is flat broke from the line.

When Clark missed two near the end of regulation against Louisville, I finally thought MSU's poor FT shooting caught up with them.

by Herbie Green 30/03/15, 11:11 pm

...on paper

G T Jones 6'1
G Cook 6'2
G M Jones 6'5
F Winslow 6'6
C Okufor 6'11

The bench seems limited and I don't think this is a stellar Duke D like they usually have. MSU might be able to run, pound, and wear them out.

by **Turtleneck** 30/03/15, 11:20 pm

Hey, you should put this in the thread about the game against Duke.

by Herbie Green 30/03/15, 11:35 pm

Sorry man didn't see it. This is an ADD version

by **The_Dude** 30/03/15, 11:38 pm

Herbie Green wrote:...on paper

G T Jones 6'1
G Cook 6'2
G M Jones 6'5
F Winslow 6'6
C Okufor 6'11

The bench seems limited and I don't think this is a stellar Duke D like they usually have. MSU might be able to run, pound, and wear them out.

by **Turtleneck** 30/03/15, 11:41 pm

Herbie Green wrote:Sorry man didn't see it. This is an ADD version

No worries. Just kidding.

by **Blanch32** 31/03/15, 07:52 am

Herbie Green wrote:...on paper

G T Jones 6'1
G Cook 6'2
G M Jones 6'5
F Winslow 6'6
C Okufor 6'11

The bench seems limited and I don't think this is a stellar Duke D like they usually have. MSU might be able to run, pound, and wear them out.

Agreed. Louisville was a much better team in the first half than this duke will be and they were only up 8.

As long as we dont go super broke from three and at least limit our boneheaded turnovers to like 3 or 4, this is our game to win. Watch for K to go for the super hot start and then ride it out by whining to the refs

by **Robert J Sakimano** 31/03/15, 07:55 am

Blanch32 wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:...on paper

G T Jones 6'1
G Cook 6'2
G M Jones 6'5
F Winslow 6'6
C Okufor 6'11

The bench seems limited and I don't think this is a stellar Duke D like they usually have. MSU might be able to run, pound, and wear them out.

Agreed. Louisville was a much better team in the first half than this duke will be and they were only up 8.

As long as we dont go super broke from three and at least limit our boneheaded turnovers to like 3 or 4, this is our game to win. Watch for K to go for the super hot start and then ride it out by whining to the refs

+1

this is something that we would never do.

GO GREEN!

by Guest 31/03/15, 08:47 am

Beyond the normal wanting Michigan State to win I have 2 very good reasons to REALLY want the Spartans to shock the world this weekend. Their names are Jahlil Okafor and Tyus Jones.

Tom Izzo poured his soul into recruiting Okafor & Jones. They both acknowledged how much they loved Izzo. But they both went to Duke. My guess is they went there because they knew (hoped) they were 1 and done. Having only 1 year of college ball to play they wanted to win and get to a finals. Obviously they had more faith in CoachK than in KingIzzo. I know he would handle it graciously but how sweet would it be if Coach Izzo and the "plan B" guys brought in to replace Jones/Okafor ended their season for them?

Tom Izzo may be too big of a man to be thinking these thoughts but I guarantee you people on his staff and many of the players are thinking of it. Having just enough redneck hillbilly in my blood to live by the feud NOTHING would give me more pleasure this weekend than wiping the smirks off those 2 little pricks faces.

FUCK DUKE.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 31/03/15, 08:53 am

LooseGoose wrote:Beyond the normal wanting Michigan State to win I have 2 very good reasons to REALLY want the Spartans to shock the world this weekend. Their names are Jahlil Okafor and Tyus Jones.

Tom Izzo poured his soul into recruiting Okafor & Jones. They both acknowledged how much they loved Izzo. But they both went to Duke. My guess is they went there because they knew (hoped) they were 1 and done. Having only 1 year of college ball to play they wanted to win and get to a finals. Obviously they had more faith in CoachK than in KingIzzo. I know he would handle it graciously but how sweet would it be if Coach Izzo and the "plan B" guys brought in to replace Jones/Okafor ended their season for them?

Tom Izzo may be too big of a man to be thinking these thoughts but I guarantee you people on his staff and many of the players are thinking of it. Having just enough redneck hillbilly in my blood to live by the feud NOTHING would give me more pleasure this weekend than wiping the smirks off those 2 little pricks faces.

FUCK DUKE.

this.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 31/03/15, 08:58 am

LooseGoose wrote:Beyond the normal wanting Michigan State to win I have 2 very good reasons to REALLY want the Spartans to shock the world this weekend. Their names are Jahlil Okafor and Tyus Jones.

Tom Izzo poured his soul into recruiting Okafor & Jones. They both acknowledged how much they loved Izzo. But they both went to Duke. My guess is they went there because they knew (hoped) they were 1 and done. Having only 1 year of college ball to play they wanted to win and get to a finals. Obviously they had more faith in CoachK than in KingIzzo. I know he would handle it graciously but how sweet would it be if Coach Izzo and the "plan B" guys brought in to replace Jones/Okafor ended their season for them?

Tom Izzo may be too big of a man to be thinking these thoughts but I guarantee you people on his staff and many of the players are thinking of it. Having just enough redneck hillbilly in my blood to live by the feud NOTHING would give me more pleasure this weekend than wiping the smirks off those 2 little pricks faces.

FUCK DUKE.

on a side note, how much redneck hillbilly blood do you have in ya? $10 says I have more. Seriously. I could tell some stories. Should we talk about Duke? 502811600

by **tig ol bitties** 31/03/15, 09:06 am

duke is good.

I wonder if izzo would consider throwing wollenman in at some point and going hack-a-okafor. can't let him shoot 8 for 10. at least make him earn them at the line.

Have to keep them from driving into the lane. they are good at creating contact and getting fouled. We tend to foul a lot

by Guest 31/03/15, 09:21 am

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:Beyond the normal wanting Michigan State to win I have 2 very good reasons to REALLY want the Spartans to shock the world this weekend. Their names are Jahlil Okafor and Tyus Jones.

Tom Izzo poured his soul into recruiting Okafor & Jones. They both acknowledged how much they loved Izzo. But they both went to Duke. My guess is they went there because they knew (hoped) they were 1 and done. Having only 1 year of college ball to play they wanted to win and get to a finals. Obviously they had more faith in CoachK than in KingIzzo. I know he would handle it graciously but how sweet would it be if Coach Izzo and the "plan B" guys brought in to replace Jones/Okafor ended their season for them?

Tom Izzo may be too big of a man to be thinking these thoughts but I guarantee you people on his staff and many of the players are thinking of it. Having just enough redneck hillbilly in my blood to live by the feud NOTHING would give me more pleasure this weekend than wiping the smirks off those 2 little pricks faces.

FUCK DUKE.
on a side note, how much redneck hillbilly blood do you have in ya? $10 says I have more. Seriously. I could tell some stories.

Mostly my Mom's side of the family. Generations upon generations of farmers that can still tell you who sold great grandpa a free martin heifer in 1896. Based on that you shouldn't trust the great-great grand nephew.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 31/03/15, 09:25 am

LooseGoose wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:on a side note, how much redneck hillbilly blood do you have in ya? $10 says I have more. Seriously. I could tell some stories.

Mostly my Mom's side of the family. Generations upon generations of farmers that can still tell you who sold great grandpa a free martin heifer in 1896. Based on that you shouldn't trust the great-great grand nephew.

where I grew up I remember people washing their clothes in the creek. I remember being a little kid and walking down a dirt trail to use my great-grandmother's outhouse. Seriously. Which is actually pretty cool. I still enjoy visiting. Heading down this week, actually.

by **The_Dude** 31/03/15, 10:34 am

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

Mostly my Mom's side of the family. Generations upon generations of farmers that can still tell you who sold great grandpa a free martin heifer in 1896. Based on that you shouldn't trust the great-great grand nephew.

where I grew up I remember people washing their clothes in the creek. I remember being a little kid and walking down a dirt trail to use my great-grandmother's outhouse. Seriously. Which is actually pretty cool. I still enjoy visiting. Heading down this week, actually.

You sure got a perty mouth

by **Robert J Sakimano** 31/03/15, 12:24 pm

The_Dude wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:

where I grew up I remember people washing their clothes in the creek. I remember being a little kid and walking down a dirt trail to use my great-grandmother's outhouse. Seriously. Which is actually pretty cool. I still enjoy visiting. Heading down this week, actually.

You sure got a perty mouth

by **Turtleneck** 04/04/15, 06:44 pm

Well, uh, their D looks pretty outstanding right now.

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