New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by The_Dude on Tue 26 Apr - 17:51

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
Blanch32 wrote:

Well, for starters your boner for harbs

See uofm and OSU can win a natty. But they can't beat us - who can't win a natty. This is just how it works.

It's not a hard concept to understand. And you know OSU just won a natty right?
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by The_Dude on Tue 26 Apr - 17:52

Blanch32 wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

How so?

Because I dont follow the typical everything MSU does = good and everything UM = bad script? Because I realie its just collegiate athletics and to act extremely petty about it is kind of pathetic?

Well, for starters your boner for harbs

I think he's a top 5 coach in college football. Most people agree and I'm the boner eh?
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by LooseGoose on Tue 26 Apr - 18:13

The_Dude wrote:
Blanch32 wrote:

Well, for starters your boner for harbs

I think he's a top 5 coach in college football. Most people agree and I'm the boner eh?

It's evident from all the titles he's won - league and national.

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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by Other Teams Pursuing That on Tue 26 Apr - 18:15

The_Dude wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

See uofm and OSU can win a natty. But they can't beat us - who can't win a natty. This is just how it works.

It's not a hard concept to understand. And you know OSU just won a natty right?



I have an issue with someone telling me a team can't win something when they were one of the four teams with a chance last year. But I am very logical, so I apologize about that.
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by Blanch32 on Tue 26 Apr - 20:52

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

It's not a hard concept to understand. And you know OSU just won a natty right?



I have an issue with someone telling me a team can't win something when they were one of the four teams with a chance last year. But I am very logical, so I apologize about that.



..and that same team beat the last year's natty champs at their stadium too. Yup no chence cause harbs
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by duffy munn on Tue 26 Apr - 23:32

The_Dude wrote:
Blanch32 wrote:

Well, for starters your boner for harbs

I think he's a top 5 coach in college football. Most people agree and I'm the boner eh?

Yet the 3rd best in the B1G. Maybe.

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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by The_Dude on Wed 27 Apr - 2:15

duffy munn wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

I think he's a top 5 coach in college football. Most people agree and I'm the boner eh?

Yet the 3rd best in the B1G. Maybe.

So judge a coach after year1 at their school?
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by The_Dude on Wed 27 Apr - 2:16

Not saying he's better than Meyer or coach D. I put Saban and Meyer above coach D then the pickins gets slim. Maybe Miles and Stoops. Maybe forgetting someone.
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by DWags on Wed 27 Apr - 5:25

The_Dude wrote:
Blanch32 wrote:

So you are a uofm fan. So shocking

How so?

Because I dont follow the typical everything MSU does = good and everything UM = bad script? Because I realie its just collegiate athletics and to act extremely petty about it is kind of pathetic?

Point out one game last year that so impressed you that you believe they win a natty. One series, one play. What was so impressive about that team? That staff.

Don't get caught up in that hype or their first six games next year. He still has to beat OSU and MSU. Top five? Based on what?

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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by Blanch32 on Wed 27 Apr - 7:49

The_Dude wrote:
duffy munn wrote:

Yet the 3rd best in the B1G. Maybe.

So judge a coach after year1 at their school?

That's right we are discounting all the nattys he won at Stanford. Oh wait....
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by Blanch32 on Wed 27 Apr - 7:51

DWags wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

How so?

Because I dont follow the typical everything MSU does = good and everything UM = bad script? Because I realie its just collegiate athletics and to act extremely petty about it is kind of pathetic?

Point out one game last year that so impressed you that you believe they win a natty. One series, one play. What was so impressive about that team? That staff.

Don't get caught up in that hype or their first six games next year. He still has to beat OSU and MSU. Top five? Based on what?

Simple, based on his uofm fanhood
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by duffy munn on Wed 27 Apr - 8:46

The_Dude wrote:
duffy munn wrote:

Yet the 3rd best in the B1G. Maybe.

So judge a coach after year1 at their school?

Your top 5 coach sent gunners to cover a punt returner that didn't exist.

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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by The_Dude on Wed 27 Apr - 11:43

DWags wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

How so?

Because I dont follow the typical everything MSU does = good and everything UM = bad script? Because I realie its just collegiate athletics and to act extremely petty about it is kind of pathetic?

Point out one game last year that so impressed you that you believe they win a natty. One series, one play. What was so impressive about that team? That staff.

Don't get caught up in that hype or their first six games next year. He still has to beat OSU and MSU. Top five? Based on what?

When did I say I thought UM would win a natty this year? Took him 3-4 years to turn Stanford into a power. Same timeframe now nut he gets better talent.
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by Robert J Sakimano on Wed 27 Apr - 11:45

The_Dude wrote:
DWags wrote:

Point out one game last year that so impressed you that you believe they win a natty. One series, one play. What was so impressive about that team? That staff.

Don't get caught up in that hype or their first six games next year. He still has to beat OSU and MSU. Top five? Based on what?

When did I say I thought UM would win a natty this year? Took him 3-4 years to turn Stanford into a power. Same timeframe now nut he gets better talent.
you get your opinions.. and you get the f**k out of here.

Now.

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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by Other Teams Pursuing That on Wed 27 Apr - 11:52

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

When did I say I thought UM would win a natty this year? Took him 3-4 years to turn Stanford into a power. Same timeframe now nut he gets better talent.
you get your opinions.. and you get the f**k out of here.

Now.


You get outta here Bob!
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by The_Dude on Wed 27 Apr - 11:52

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

When did I say I thought UM would win a natty this year? Took him 3-4 years to turn Stanford into a power. Same timeframe now nut he gets better talent.
you get your opinions.. and you get the f**k out of here.

Now.



I'll just say scum sucks, Harbaugh sucks, they will never win again! Makes for riveting debate.
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by Robert J Sakimano on Wed 27 Apr - 11:57

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:you get your opinions.. and you get the f**k out of here.

Now.


You get outta here Bob!
that is no way to address the sideline reporter.

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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by Other Teams Pursuing That on Wed 27 Apr - 11:58

The_Dude wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:you get your opinions.. and you get the f**k out of here.

Now.



I'll just say scum sucks, Harbaugh sucks, they will never win again! Makes for riveting debate.

What's more riveting is you attempting to convince us how msu will never win a natty in either sport in every thread
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by Other Teams Pursuing That on Wed 27 Apr - 11:58

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

You get outta here Bob!
that is no way to address the sideline reporter.


Did you get the dime I left behind dantonios ear for you??
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by Robert J Sakimano on Wed 27 Apr - 11:59

The_Dude wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:you get your opinions.. and you get the f**k out of here.

Now.



I'll just say scum sucks, Harbaugh sucks, they will never win again! Makes for riveting debate.
but it makes me feel much less personally attacked.

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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by Robert J Sakimano on Wed 27 Apr - 12:00

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:that is no way to address the sideline reporter.


Did you get the dime I left behind dantonios ear for you??
I did.. and I dropped it off to Cindy so she could have Dantonio sign it and we could ceremoniously donate it to a special parking fund for Johnny Spirit.


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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by duffy munn on Wed 27 Apr - 12:21

The_Dude wrote:
DWags wrote:

Point out one game last year that so impressed you that you believe they win a natty. One series, one play. What was so impressive about that team? That staff.

Don't get caught up in that hype or their first six games next year. He still has to beat OSU and MSU. Top five? Based on what?

When did I say I thought UM would win a natty this year? Took him 3-4 years to turn Stanford into a power. Same timeframe now nut he gets better talent.

Oh, I get it. The typical Walvie "wait til he gets his own players" spin. Forget that Hoke had 2 huge recruiting years in a row and left a stocked roster for your Savior.

I hope your Messiah gets it done in the glorious Big House soon. For your sake.

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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by The_Dude on Wed 27 Apr - 12:23

duffy munn wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

When did I say I thought UM would win a natty this year? Took him 3-4 years to turn Stanford into a power. Same timeframe now nut he gets better talent.

Oh, I get it. The typical Walvie "wait til he gets his own players" spin. Forget that Hoke had 2 huge recruiting years in a row and left a stocked roster for your Savior.

I hope your Messiah gets it done in the glorious Big House soon. For your sake.


Scum sucks
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by Robert J Sakimano on Wed 27 Apr - 12:25

The_Dude wrote:
duffy munn wrote:

Oh, I get it. The typical Walvie "wait til he gets his own players" spin. Forget that Hoke had 2 huge recruiting years in a row and left a stocked roster for your Savior.

I hope your Messiah gets it done in the glorious Big House soon. For your sake.


Scum sucks
and so do you for liking them!!! Razz
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by The_Dude on Wed 27 Apr - 12:30

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
The_Dude wrote:


I'll just say scum sucks, Harbaugh sucks, they will never win again! Makes for riveting debate.

What's more riveting is you attempting to convince us how msu will never win a natty in either sport in every thread


Exaggerate much? Never said that about MSU hoops.

In football I believe that unless we start to get dirty. We can have really good success that 90% of college football teams would envy (like the run we are on), but natty in football is something I don't consider realistic for MSU.

Only about 12 teams I consider it realistic for.
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by duffy munn on Wed 27 Apr - 12:39

The_Dude wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

What's more riveting is you attempting to convince us how msu will never win a natty in either sport in every thread


Exaggerate much? Never said that about MSU hoops.

In football I believe that unless we start to get dirty. We can have really good success that 90% of college football teams would envy (like the run we are on), but natty in football is something I don't consider realistic for MSU.

Only about 12 teams I consider it realistic for.

So a National Championship is not realistic for Dantonio and MSU but it is for Harbaugh and U of M. Seems logical.


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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by Robert J Sakimano on Wed 27 Apr - 12:41

duffy munn wrote:
The_Dude wrote:


Exaggerate much?  Never said that about MSU hoops.

In football I believe that unless we start to get dirty.  We can have really good success that 90% of college football teams would envy (like the run we are on), but natty in football is something I don't consider realistic for MSU.

Only about 12 teams I consider it realistic for.

So a National Championship is not realistic for Dantonio and MSU but it is for Harbaugh and U of M. Seems logical.

because scUM cheats while we and our fine scholar-athletes do not.

(I don't believe that we can't win a national championship.. as I wake up every morning looking forward to the day I can procure a MSU National Champion t-shirt. I'm simply suggesting that the Dude thinks that).
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by DWags on Wed 27 Apr - 12:58

The_Dude wrote:
DWags wrote:

Point out one game last year that so impressed you that you believe they win a natty. One series, one play. What was so impressive about that team? That staff.

Don't get caught up in that hype or their first six games next year. He still has to beat OSU and MSU. Top five? Based on what?

When did I say I thought UM would win a natty this year? Took him 3-4 years to turn Stanford into a power. Same timeframe now nut he gets better talent.

He doesn't get better talent than Andrew Luck, and he will always have to play osu and MSU.

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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by duffy munn on Wed 27 Apr - 13:11

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
duffy munn wrote:

So a National Championship is not realistic for Dantonio and MSU but it is for Harbaugh and U of M. Seems logical.

because scUM cheats while we and our fine scholar-athletes do not.

(I don't believe that we can't win a national championship.. as I wake up every morning looking forward to the day I can procure a MSU National Champion t-shirt. I'm simply suggesting that the Dude thinks that).

The Lord Jesus Harbaugh does not cheat. Blasphemy, Bob. Repent.

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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by The_Dude on Wed 27 Apr - 13:18

duffy munn wrote:
The_Dude wrote:


Exaggerate much? Never said that about MSU hoops.

In football I believe that unless we start to get dirty. We can have really good success that 90% of college football teams would envy (like the run we are on), but natty in football is something I don't consider realistic for MSU.

Only about 12 teams I consider it realistic for.

So a National Championship is not realistic for Dantonio and MSU but it is for Harbaugh and U of M. Seems logical.



Correct. UM has access to the elite of the elite talent that MSU doesn't, and Harbaugh is a win at all costs throat that is playing by SEC rules.

That is what it takes.
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by The_Dude on Wed 27 Apr - 13:20

DWags wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

When did I say I thought UM would win a natty this year? Took him 3-4 years to turn Stanford into a power. Same timeframe now nut he gets better talent.

He doesn't get better talent than Andrew Luck, and he will always have to play osu and MSU.

Ok, but the PAC12 is a better conference than the B1G. Has been for a long time. And come on, if you think that he can't more talent at UM than at a place like Stanford, welp, good for you.
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by duffy munn on Wed 27 Apr - 13:25

The_Dude wrote:
duffy munn wrote:

So a National Championship is not realistic for Dantonio and MSU but it is for Harbaugh and U of M. Seems logical.



Correct. UM has access to the elite of the elite talent that MSU doesn't, and Harbaugh is a win at all costs throat that is playing by SEC rules.

That is what it takes.

Weird. I seem to remember MSU beating the defending National champion OSU just last year. I also vaguely recall MSU playing in the national semis.

What I don't remember is Harbaugh beating either OSU or MSU. Not going to happen this year either. Or anytime soon.

Again, I hope your hero can turn things around in Ann Arbor and get them back to a Lloyd Carr level. Or even worse, a Bo Schembechler level.


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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by The_Dude on Wed 27 Apr - 13:28

duffy munn wrote:
The_Dude wrote:


Correct. UM has access to the elite of the elite talent that MSU doesn't, and Harbaugh is a win at all costs throat that is playing by SEC rules.

That is what it takes.

Weird. I seem to remember MSU beating the defending National champion OSU just last year. I also vaguely recall MSU playing in the national semis.

What I don't remember is Harbaugh beating either OSU or MSU. Not going to happen this year either. Or anytime soon.

Again, I hope your hero can turn things around in Ann Arbor and get them back to a Lloyd Carr level. Or even worse, a Bo Schembechler level.



You keep switching the argument. Sure MSU can beat OSU. And OSU wasnt the national champs last year, they were the year before that, you know, when they rolled us.

Im talking about MSU winning the national championship not winning league games.
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by DWags on Wed 27 Apr - 13:32

The_Dude wrote:
DWags wrote:

He doesn't get better talent than Andrew Luck, and he will always have to play osu and MSU.

Ok, but the PAC12 is a better conference than the B1G. Has been for a long time. And come on, if you think that he can't more talent at UM than at a place like Stanford, welp, good for you.

Seriously, the one year he had a good record in the Pac 12 Every team in the league besides Oregon had at least 4 losses, most had 5. It was a horrible league. I know David Shaw has won 3 of the last 5 titles since he's left.

I dont think he's a bad coach, he's a good coach, but he is not some coach like Saban who you just kow will win championships. Especially because I think he's the third best coach in the East division. If OSU or MSU has talent anywhere near Michigan, I'd definitely give both those schools the edge against a JH lead team.

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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by DWags on Wed 27 Apr - 13:34

The_Dude wrote:
duffy munn wrote:

So a National Championship is not realistic for Dantonio and MSU but it is for Harbaugh and U of M. Seems logical.



Correct. UM has access to the elite of the elite talent that MSU doesn't,
That is what it takes.



Son, get your head out of the ass of the hype.

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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by Robert J Sakimano on Wed 27 Apr - 13:43

duffy munn wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
because scUM cheats while we and our fine scholar-athletes do not.

(I don't believe that we can't win a national championship.. as I wake up every morning looking forward to the day I can procure a MSU National Champion t-shirt. I'm simply suggesting that the Dude thinks that).

The Lord Jesus Harbaugh does not cheat. Blasphemy, Bob. Repent.
I shall quoteth the Book of Spartan, chapter 13, verse 3

"thou hath never lost a game. Thou has only been cheated by officiating or other teams that doth cheat. It is with great woe thath we, Spartan followers, shalt exist as the only purity in a world of disgraceful doom"

Spartan, 13:3
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by The_Dude on Wed 27 Apr - 13:59

DWags wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

Ok, but the PAC12 is a better conference than the B1G.  Has been for a long time.  And come on, if you think that he can't more talent at UM than at a place like Stanford, welp, good for you.

Seriously, the one year he had a good record in the Pac 12 Every team in the league besides Oregon had at least 4 losses, most had 5.  It was a horrible league.  I know David Shaw has won 3 of the last 5 titles since he's left.  

I dont think he's a bad coach, he's a good coach, but he is not some coach like Saban who you just kow will win championships.  Especially because I think he's the third best coach in the East division.  If OSU or MSU has talent anywhere near Michigan, I'd definitely give both those schools the edge against a JH lead team.

Ok not going to argue if you think Dantonio is a better coach.  At this point in their collegiate careers, I'd agree.

But isn't getting talent to play for you a very very important part of coaching?  So, at the end of the day, if *hypothetically* Dantonio doesn't have enough talent, he's ultimately to blame, right? And Im not saying Dantonio isn't getting enough talent, he's putting a lot of guys into the league.

And comparing anyone to Saban is crap.  He's arguably the #1 coach ever in the history of the sport.  So, everyone ever will come up short if you do a direct comparison.  Kind of like K in hoops.

There's a reason every national title team in the bcs and now playoff era has had multiple top 10 recruiting classes. Its not a coincidence.
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by Robert J Sakimano on Wed 27 Apr - 14:05

The_Dude wrote:
DWags wrote:

Seriously, the one year he had a good record in the Pac 12 Every team in the league besides Oregon had at least 4 losses, most had 5.  It was a horrible league.  I know David Shaw has won 3 of the last 5 titles since he's left.  

I dont think he's a bad coach, he's a good coach, but he is not some coach like Saban who you just kow will win championships.  Especially because I think he's the third best coach in the East division.  If OSU or MSU has talent anywhere near Michigan, I'd definitely give both those schools the edge against a JH lead team.

Ok not going to argue if you think Dantonio is a better coach.  At this point in their collegiate careers, I'd agree.

But isn't getting talent to play for you a very very important part of coaching?  So, at the end of the day, if *hypothetically* Dantonio doesn't have enough talent, he's ultimately to blame, right? And Im not saying Dantonio isn't getting enough talent, he's putting a lot of guys into the league.

And comparing anyone to Saban is crap.  He's arguably the #1 coach ever in the history of the sport.  So, everyone ever will come up short if you do a direct comparison.  Kind of like K in hoops.

There's a reason every national title team in the bcs and now playoff era has had multiple top 10 recruiting classes. Its not a coincidence.
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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by DWags on Wed 27 Apr - 14:26

The_Dude wrote:
There's a reason every national title team in the bcs and now playoff era has had multiple top 10 recruiting classes.  Its not a coincidence.

The system perpetuated "national title" games.  We would see teams like Boise State never invited to the NC game because polls and writers were slanted.  In turn, we'd see things like a team perpetually put into the top ten.  Here's an interesting break down:

It's not what you get rated, it's what you do with it.

It's just a chart that really tells us which teams were perpetually over rated and which were perpetually under rated.  

As the playoffs expand, we'll see more and more teams with classes that are "lesser ranked" win and do well in the playoffs.   We see it in basketball all the time where teams will be beat those teams that we've believed to be the best all year.   But if you only have to win one game (up until 2015) and now 2 games, it still can be a skewed stat that recruitnics like yourself ( I know you've told us you aren't but obviously you really are- most uofm fans are) can use to say "see it' takes a huge class to win a title.  Those titles were phony as can be and even the last two years we can't be real sure.  As we expand the playoffs, we'll see that those rankings will match up less and less with what really is a true power.  

finally, why wasn't Harbaugh able to take the classes that Hoke had and beat MSU or Utah with them?  I'm puzzled.  If he is anywhere near the coach Dantonio or Whittingham is, he was able to work with a much more talented crew.

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Re: New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

Post by The_Dude on Wed 27 Apr - 17:18

DWags wrote:
The_Dude wrote:
There's a reason every national title team in the bcs and now playoff era has had multiple top 10 recruiting classes.  Its not a coincidence.

The system perpetuated "national title" games.  We would see teams like Boise State never invited to the NC game because polls and writers were slanted.  In turn, we'd see things like a team perpetually put into the top ten.  Here's an interesting break down:

It's not what you get rated, it's what you do with it.

It's just a chart that really tells us which teams were perpetually over rated and which were perpetually under rated.  

As the playoffs expand, we'll see more and more teams with classes that are "lesser ranked" win and do well in the playoffs.   We see it in basketball all the time where teams will be beat those teams that we've believed to be the best all year.   But if you only have to win one game (up until 2015) and now 2 games, it still can be a skewed stat that recruitnics like yourself ( I know you've told us you aren't but obviously you really are- most uofm fans are) can use to say "see it' takes a huge class to win a title.  Those titles were phony as can be and even the last two years we can't be real sure.  As we expand the playoffs, we'll see that those rankings will match up less and less with what really is a true power.  

finally, why wasn't Harbaugh able to take the classes that Hoke had and beat MSU or Utah with them?  I'm puzzled.  If he is anywhere near the coach Dantonio or Whittingham is, he was able to work with a much more talented crew.

A one year sample size means dick and Hokes classes had a tremendous attrition rate.

Those are both unbiased factual statements.
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