Anyone Else Give A **** This Death Row Inmate Suffered?

xsanguine wrote:

Yes. There is an appeals process.

If someone is found guilty, but there's still some amount of doubt... what is the alternative? Just let them go...?

There's not supposed to be any "doubt", if there is they aren't supposed to be in prison. The appeals process is quickly and rapidly exhausted in almost all cases. Once you are sentenced for murder it is very very rare to ever get a new trial or be released. It's just as likely that an innocent man can spend his entire remaining life incarcerated, as it is that an innocent man is executed. But one case really bothers you, an one you can accept apparently. I just don't understand that logic. If death penalty opponents worked as ardently on behalf of only the inmates they think got railroaded, regardless of whether they are on death row, or just in for life, then I might be more sympathetic. But they don't make that distinction. They will put in great effort to save the life of a scumbag like this guy, and not lift a finger to help someone sentenced to life, who actually might be innocent. Justice is what is important, not whether you like the sentence or not.

bullwrinkle wrote:

There's not supposed to be any "doubt", if there is they aren't supposed to be in prison.  The appeals process is quickly and rapidly exhausted in almost all cases.  Once you are sentenced for murder it is very very rare to ever get a new trial or be released.  It's just as likely that an innocent man can spend his entire remaining life incarcerated, as it is that an innocent man is executed.  But one case really bothers you, an one you can accept apparently.  I just don't understand that logic.  If death penalty opponents worked as ardently on behalf of only the inmates they think got railroaded, regardless of whether they are on death row, or just in for life, then I might be more sympathetic.  But they don't make that distinction.  They will put in great effort to save the life of a scumbag like this guy, and not lift a finger to help someone sentenced to life, who actually might be innocent.  Justice is what is important, not whether you like the sentence or not.

I've always understood that they have to be proven beyond a "reasonable" doubt.

My only point in mentioning it was to distinguish between the majority of cases and the very rare ones where they're particularly heinous and leaves out any sort of doubt, not just satisfying the "reasonable" doubt. I admit I'm not a lawyer and not as familiar with the court system as many others are, though.

I do understand where you're coming from, bull.

xsanguine wrote:

I've always understood that they have to be proven beyond a "reasonable" doubt.

My only point in mentioning it was to distinguish between the majority of cases and the very rare ones where they're particularly heinous and leaves out any sort of doubt, not just satisfying the "reasonable" doubt. I admit I'm not a lawyer and not as familiar with the court system as many others are, though.

I do understand where you're coming from, bull.

Fair point. The majority of murderers are in for some sort of drug related killing. Usually, the killer, victim, and witnesses are all of the very unsavory character type. That in and of itself an lead to some doubt, when the start witness for the prosecution is as bad a dude as the guy on trial. There is abuse, where prosecutors and cops look to get the fast conviction, figuring what the hell, even if he is innocent for this crime, he belongs in prison for what he already has done, or is likely to do in the future.

bullwrinkle wrote:

Fair point.  The majority of murderers are in for some sort of drug related killing.  Usually, the killer, victim, and witnesses are all of the very unsavory character type.  That in and of itself an lead to some doubt, when the start witness for the prosecution is as bad a dude as the guy on trial.   There is abuse, where prosecutors and cops look to get the fast conviction, figuring what the hell, even if he is innocent for this crime, he belongs in prison for what he already has done, or is likely to do in the future.

Got a link for any of that?

Cameron wrote:

Got a link for any of that?

Crime data for some reason isn't tabulated based on being drug related, other than if the offender was on drugs at the time. But if you are willing to accept that gang related killings are by definition drug related...then the data is readily available. There were 532 murders in Chicago in 2012....how many of them do you think were drug related?http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/2011-national-gang-threat-assessment

bullwrinkle wrote:

Whatever, we can't wait to see your obsession blossom over here.  

While it's fun to see that you're still upset about my old Wells Hall thread that chronicled your obsessions, it's even more fun to see that your current obsession is...obsessions. You're like a snake eating its own tail. Hilarious.

Pervis Muldoon wrote:

While it's fun to see that you're still upset about my old Wells Hall thread that chronicled your obsessions, it's even more fun to see that your current obsession is...obsessions.  You're like a snake eating its own tail.  Hilarious.

Upset?  To the contrary, I was honored, in a creepy sort of way, that you were so butt hurt that you were compelled to dedicate entire threads to me in a pitiful attempt to save face.  Can't wait for it to happen here.  At this rate it's gonna be soon. 

Pretty unacceptable rate of error imo.

" The study’s authors conclude that based on the statistical data, it can safely be estimated that 4.1 percent, or one-in-25 criminal defendants, sentenced to death in the U.S. are innocent."

Also, if you are going to execute innocent or guilty people then at least do so competently.

bullwrinkle wrote:

Upset?  To the contrary, I was honored, in a creepy sort of way, that you were so butt hurt that you were compelled to dedicate entire threads to me in a pitiful attempt to save face.  Can't wait for it to happen here.  At this rate it's gonna be soon. 

Instead of being hurt by that thread, you really crave the attention? That's great, I guess. I may start a similar thread on this board, if you get into another of those weird obsessions - like your Steny Hoyer, corporate taxes, Tom Izzo, and Tim Tebow infatuations. Or that time when you accused everyone who disagreed with you of being Fletch - that was fun!

Give me something to work with here and maybe I'll take you up on that thread you desire. I aim to please.

steveschneider wrote:Pretty unacceptable rate of error imo.

" The study’s authors conclude that based on the statistical data, it can safely be estimated that 4.1 percent, or one-in-25 criminal defendants, sentenced to death in the U.S. are innocent."

Also, if you are going to execute innocent or guilty people then at least do so competently.

This ends the argument right here. Capital punishment is wrong, but when you can't guarantee that the state isn't killing innocent people, then it is also immoral.

GTA Spartan wrote:

This ends the argument right here. Capital punishment is wrong, but when you can't guarantee that the state isn't killing innocent people, then it is also immoral.

When it comes to making angry and scared people feel better, there's no price too high.

Pervis Muldoon wrote:

 That's great, I guess.  I may start a similar thread on this board,

There's a surprise - the obsession continues.  

GTA Spartan wrote:

This ends the argument right here. Capital punishment is wrong, but when you can't guarantee that the state isn't killing innocent people, then it is also immoral.

Well the same percentage of murderers sentenced to life without parole are also innocent, at least according to this study.  Virtually none of them will get out.  But you're cool with that, because it doesn't offend your sensitive nature.

Oh...the reason they are using these dopey injection methods, is Nancies like you were horrified at good old fashioned and effective hangings and firing squads.....just too mean....need to gently and painlessly send them on their way.  Just like how this guy treated that 19 year old girl.

bullwrinkle wrote:

Well the same percentage of murderers sentenced to life without parole are also innocent, at least according to this study.  Virtually none of them will get out.  But you're cool with that, because it doesn't offend your sensitive nature.

Oh...the reason they are using these dopey injection methods, is Nancies like you were horrified at good old fashioned and effective hangings and firing squads.....just too mean....need to gently and painlessly send them on their way.  Just like how this guy treated that 19 year old girl.

Oooh, you're so tough! I sure hope the government keeps killing citizens who scare you.

Pervis Muldoon wrote:

Oooh, you're so tough!  I sure hope the government keeps killing citizens who scare you.

Which is it, am I tough or am I scared?   

bullwrinkle wrote:

Well the same percentage of murderers sentenced to life without parole are also innocent, at least according to this study.  Virtually none of them will get out.  But you're cool with that, because it doesn't offend your sensitive nature.

Oh...the reason they are using these dopey injection methods, is Nancies like you were horrified at good old fashioned and effective hangings and firing squads.....just too mean....need to gently and painlessly send them on their way.  Just like how this guy treated that 19 year old girl.

Who said anything about being "cool" with sentencing innocent people to life without parole?

bullwrinkle wrote:

Which is it, am I tough or am I scared?   

You're so good at recognizing sarcasm! I hope you find someone to explain it to you.

steveschneider wrote:

Who said anything about being "cool" with sentencing innocent people to life without parole?

The same percentage of allegedly innocent murderers are serving life sentences as those on death row. Show me the advocacy group that constantly fights on their behalf to get a new trial etc....the same as they do for those on death row.

Pervis Muldoon wrote:

You're so good at recognizing sarcasm!  I hope you find someone to explain it to you.

And I'm really good at recognizing insecure people who aren't very bright. How's your day going?  

bullwrinkle wrote:

The same percentage of allegedly innocent murderers are serving life sentences as those on death row.  Show me the advocacy group that constantly fights on their behalf to get a new trial etc....the same as they do for those on death row.

The ACLU.

steveschneider wrote:

The ACLU.

Nope, they're far too busy fighting a much more serious battle, keeping prayer out of our schools.

bullwrinkle wrote:

Nope, they're far too busy fighting a much more serious battle, keeping prayer out of our schools.

Truthiness alert

 

I'm against capital punishment because it costs too much. I'm in favor of torture, an eye for an eye approach, but the constitution won't allow it.

bullwrinkle wrote:

And I'm really good at recognizing insecure people who aren't very bright.   How's your day going?  

Better than some autistic connie who needs emoticons     

bullwrinkle wrote:

Well the same percentage of murderers sentenced to life without parole are also innocent, at least according to this study.  Virtually none of them will get out.  But you're cool with that, because it doesn't offend your sensitive nature.

Oh...the reason they are using these dopey injection methods, is Nancies like you were horrified at good old fashioned and effective hangings and firing squads.....just too mean....need to gently and painlessly send them on their way.  Just like how this guy treated that 19 year old girl.

Please stop telling people what they think. You do this all the time. I haven't posted anything even closely related to what you are writing here.

GRR Spartan wrote:

Better than some autistic connie who needs emoticons      

Autistic? Get yerself a dictionary Grandpa.  

Why no bump? It happened again.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/24/justice/lethal-injection-controversy/index.html

Snake Plissken wrote:Why no bump? It happened again.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/24/justice/lethal-injection-controversy/index.html

I'm horrified. Can anyone recommend a good therapist to help me get over the trauma of this scumbag finally getting executed?

bullwrinkle wrote:

I'm horrified. Can anyone recommend a good therapist to help me...

I'm glad your family finally went through with the intervention. Let us know if it works.

I saw an article about the most recent execution in Arizona. It claims the execution was botched, yet the guy is still dead.
Sounds like a success to me.  

I.B. Fine wrote:I saw an article about the most recent execution in Arizona. It claims the execution was botched, yet the guy is still dead.
Sounds like a success to me.  

That's liberals for you, they constantly claim failure a success, and then claim that an obvious success is somehow a failure.

Pervis Muldoon wrote:

I'm having more fun organizing your feelings:  What if a bad guy gets released?!  He might come and get me!  Save me, Government!

I was the foreman of a jury that put a "bad guy" (felony assault with intent to do great bodily harm less then murder) away for 8 years. He acted as his own attorney during the trial so he had the names of everyone on the jury. Five months later, a lady in another city calls and my wife answers. This ladies husband has the same name as mine and they had been receiving letters from a prison inmate saying he wanted to talk with her husband about the trial. It scared them badly, they told the warden that they were receiving these letters and the warden put an end to it. It was clearly a case of mistaken identity, but I know the government won't save me when/if the bad guy gets released and he decides to come and get me.

If he does come to see me, it might end up being a very, very bad day for him. Who knows, maybe he will send flowers.