Re: A Muhammad Art Exhibit and Cartoon Contest Ends Poorly

by **Rocinante** 2015-05-04, 14:38

tTito wrote:I HATE cops. They're all racicst a-holes on a power trip looking to kill black kids.

Regards,

[USERNAME]

Fail.

by **xsanguine** 2015-05-04, 15:21

Rocinante wrote:Although the execution (no pun intended) was poor, due to the graphic nature of some of the drawings, I consider the tactic of drawing as many images of Muhammad as possible and making them as visible as possible a completely valid exercise as a test of the 1st amendment. 1st amendment means you have the right to offend people. In this case, because of the history of violence by "offended" extremists, I consider the tactic (again, if not the way it played out) to be a legitimate protest.

On a related note: the fact that what was, for all intensive porpoises, a statement in support of the separation of church and state happened in Texas is kind of ironic.

Damn straight, Roc, +1, homie

by Guest 2015-05-04, 15:23

Turtleneck wrote:I noticed you never touched the Romney comment. Can we also say that all Mormons sexually abuse underage girls given the track record of fundamentalist Mormons? Better start a group that informs people about the threat that Mormonism represents to society.

I avoid strawmen. But just to appease you a VERY fundamental tenet of Islam is death to infidels, are you somehow claiming that a fundamental tenet of Mormonism is molesting children? If you're equating the 2 that's your premise - carry on.

I brought up the SPLC because they're the ones labeling "hate groups" and they're nearly 100% full of shit. They labeled Geller's organization a hate group.

by Green Note 2015-05-04, 17:42

My favorite drawings were the two chalk outlines out front.

by **xsanguine** 2015-05-04, 17:45

by **Turtleneck** 2015-05-04, 22:12

LooseGoose wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:I noticed you never touched the Romney comment. Can we also say that all Mormons sexually abuse underage girls given the track record of fundamentalist Mormons? Better start a group that informs people about the threat that Mormonism represents to society.

I avoid strawmen. But just to appease you a VERY fundamental tenet of Islam is death to infidels, are you somehow claiming that a fundamental tenet of Mormonism is molesting children? If you're equating the 2 that's your premise - carry on.

I brought up the SPLC because they're the ones labeling "hate groups" and they're nearly 100% full of shit. They labeled Geller's organization a hate group.

You (somewhat) created a straw man when you attempted to associate my comments with the SLPC simply because it would be easier for you refute my claims. Anyway...here is a blog piece from the ADL about the event. In the piece, they quote the keynote speaker as saying, "Let us de-Islamize our societies! No more Islam, no more mosques, no more Islamic schools. It is time for our own culture and heritage.” Yup, perfectly normal speech. I am glad the FDI likes the part of the First Amendment that talks about free speech, but they must have skipped over the preceding part about the free exercise of religion.

The original Book of Mormon claimed (I think it has since been edited out, but I am not sure) that dark skinned people (largely a reference to Native Americans) were cursed by God, while white skinned people where the chosen people. However, upon conversion, dark skinned people would become "white and a delightsome people." In regards to plural marriage, Mormonism previously found biblical justification for multiple wives. Does all of this mean that Mormons are racists and child abusers? No! Let me reinforce that with a ABSOLUTELY NOT! However, it is all in the interpretation. Fundamentalist Mormons have used the Book of Mormon to prop up racism and sexual abuse by drawing on what they feel are the original teachings of the religion. In the same way, Islamic fundamentalists have interpreted Islam in support of their beliefs. Should we dabble in the Old Testament while we're here? The Old Testament has some crazy teachings as well.

I am not going to get into this with you. I respect your opinion. You are thoughtful and informed person, and that is what counts (well, hating UM is what matters most). We simply disagree. I very much find the FDI to be a group that spreads fear and hate. They do not believe in freedom except for those who they feel are entitled to freedom. It does not work that way. You are entitled to freedom until you prove yourself unworthy of freedom. To me that is not a majority of Muslims. More than anything I hate anecdotal evidence, but I spend time interacting with Muslims every single day and have never been threatened or otherwise harmed. Just like I was never murdered while living on the SW side of Chicago.

by Guest 2015-05-04, 22:35

Turtleneck wrote:Just like I was never murdered while living on the SW side of Chicago.

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I'm not in love with Pamela Geller, I think the heart of it for me is this: If this were an abortion clinic the press would be talking about the "extremists" outside that tried to do the shooting, in this case instead the focus has been on the "extremists" inside the building that were about to get shot.

I don't find free speech extreme, if we give up free speech we give up one of, if not our most basic right as US citizens.

by **Turtleneck** 2015-05-04, 22:42

I am not asking for her speech to be censored or anything of the sort. She is entitled to that speech and it should not be taken away, and she should not otherwise be silenced. It is protected speech. I don't like it, but that is on me and she has the right to continue with her message.

by **Gomer** 2015-05-04, 22:55

LooseGoose wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:Hate mongers attacked hate mongers.

So cartoonists are hate mongers? Do you describe the creators of "piss christ" as such? Or since that's insulting Christians it's not considered hate but constructive criticism?

Calling them cartoonists is disingenuous at best.

The truly ironic component of this is these same "cartoonists" who are fomenting hatred and inciting violence behind the shield of Free Speech are the same scum who would curb stomp someone for burning an American flag.

by **xsanguine** 2015-05-04, 23:00

I gotta side with TN.

The entire source of this whole contest was one of targeted disrespect and unnecessary baiting of a religious people.

I certainly think they were entirely out of line going after the Dutch artist who was drawing a cartoon kind of randomly for a paper and wasn't entirely aware of the sort of backlash that would come out of it... but this is deliberately trying to piss people off and deliberately trying to insult people for no other reason than to insult them.

I felt the same way about "Piss Christ". It didn't serve any purpose except to be as disrespectful as possible.

Obviously TN and I both agree that what any of these people did shouldn't be illegal or in any way not allowed... and I'm sure we both agree that the violent ass clowns that had shown up to try and kill people don't have a place on this earth... but these sorts of things served no other purpose than to be hateful.

I can't see any difference between this contest and the Westboro Baptists.

Edit: Didn't mean to speak for you, TN... I think it's safe to assume that's your viewpoint as well, correct me if I'm wrong.

by Green Note 2015-05-06, 09:46

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/05/isis-posts-warning-we-have-71-trained-soldiers-in-15-states-names-5-targets/

Jihadi targets include Michigan

by **The_Dude** 2015-05-06, 11:08

Floyd Robertson wrote:Of all the places to hold such an ill-conceived event, Texas would surely be the best.

Blaming the victims, cowardly and pathetic.

Do you also blame rape victims because they dressed provocatively?

by **The_Dude** 2015-05-06, 11:10

xsanguine wrote:I gotta side with TN.

The entire source of this whole contest was one of targeted disrespect and unnecessary baiting of a religious people.

I certainly think they were entirely out of line going after the Dutch artist who was drawing a cartoon kind of randomly for a paper and wasn't entirely aware of the sort of backlash that would come out of it... but this is deliberately trying to piss people off and deliberately trying to insult people for no other reason than to insult them.

I felt the same way about "Piss Christ". It didn't serve any purpose except to be as disrespectful as possible.

Obviously TN and I both agree that what any of these people did shouldn't be illegal or in any way not allowed... and I'm sure we both agree that the violent ass clowns that had shown up to try and kill people don't have a place on this earth... but these sorts of things served no other purpose than to be hateful.

I can't see any difference between this contest and the Westboro Baptists.

Edit: Didn't mean to speak for you, TN... I think it's safe to assume that's your viewpoint as well, correct me if I'm wrong.

Really? I mean, really? For real? You don't see ANY difference? scratch

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by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2015-05-06, 11:11

The_Dude wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:Of all the places to hold such an ill-conceived event, Texas would surely be the best.

Blaming the victims, cowardly and pathetic.

Do you also blame rape victims because they dressed provocatively?

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2015-05-06, 11:13

The_Dude wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:Of all the places to hold such an ill-conceived event, Texas would surely be the best.

Blaming the victims, cowardly and pathetic.

Do you also blame rape victims because they dressed provocatively?

I'm not sure you understand what happened.

by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2015-05-06, 11:13

The_Dude wrote:
xsanguine wrote:I gotta side with TN.

The entire source of this whole contest was one of targeted disrespect and unnecessary baiting of a religious people.

I certainly think they were entirely out of line going after the Dutch artist who was drawing a cartoon kind of randomly for a paper and wasn't entirely aware of the sort of backlash that would come out of it... but this is deliberately trying to piss people off and deliberately trying to insult people for no other reason than to insult them.

I felt the same way about "Piss Christ". It didn't serve any purpose except to be as disrespectful as possible.

Obviously TN and I both agree that what any of these people did shouldn't be illegal or in any way not allowed... and I'm sure we both agree that the violent ass clowns that had shown up to try and kill people don't have a place on this earth... but these sorts of things served no other purpose than to be hateful.

I can't see any difference between this contest and the Westboro Baptists.

Edit: Didn't mean to speak for you, TN... I think it's safe to assume that's your viewpoint as well, correct me if I'm wrong.

Really? I mean, really? For real? You don't see ANY difference?

The people the cartoon organizers were trying to piss off are wayyyy more violent? A Muhammad Art Exhibit and Cartoon Contest Ends Poorly - Page 2 2599972566

A Muhammad Art Exhibit and Cartoon Contest Ends Poorly - Page 2 2599972566

by **The_Dude** 2015-05-06, 11:14

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

Blaming the victims, cowardly and pathetic.

Do you also blame rape victims because they dressed provocatively?

Pretty simple analogy...it's blaming the victim at it's finest.

by **The_Dude** 2015-05-06, 11:20

Turtleneck wrote:Hate mongers attacked hate mongers. Fitting. However, in this country hate mongers do have a right to free speech. As abhorrent as we think it is, if speech is not inciting violence or otherwise representing a clear and present danger, it is protected speech. There is no reasonable justification for attacking people simple because you do not like what they have to say. However, message board invasions are perfectly fine.

Tim Wakefield wrote:

A Muhammad Art Exhibit and Cartoon Contest Ends Poorly - Page 2 1494614055

Pretty much. Crazy the amount of double standards the left wing has built in the name of political correctness.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2015-05-06, 11:22

I've tried to tell ya'll that religious people are scary..

by Guest 2015-05-06, 13:24

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I've tried to tell ya'll that religious people are scary..

What's scary is that over 1/2 of Dems support criminalizing speech:

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Now tell me more about your knuckle draggers Bob.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2015-05-06, 13:26

LooseGoose wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:I've tried to tell ya'll that religious people are scary..

What's scary is that over 1/2 of Dems support criminalizing speech:

Now tell me more about your knuckle draggers Bob.

What does that have to do with religious people being crazy/scary again?

by **Heat Miser** 2015-05-06, 13:31

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:I've tried to tell ya'll that religious people are scary..

What's scary is that over 1/2 of Dems support criminalizing speech:

Now tell me more about your knuckle draggers Bob.

What does that have to do with religious people being crazy/scary again?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2015-05-06, 13:32

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

What's scary is that over 1/2 of Dems support criminalizing speech:

Now tell me more about your knuckle draggers Bob.

What does that have to do with religious people being crazy/scary again?

A Muhammad Art Exhibit and Cartoon Contest Ends Poorly - Page 2 Strawman-full

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