Should Apple be forced to open suspected terrorists cell phone to the FBI?

Tough question for me. I mean fuck the terrorists, but government forcing a private company to help them is bothersome to me. That's a slippery slope in my opinion.

Private companies operating in the USA still have an obligation to contribute to the health and safety on fellow Americans. Just because they're "privately" owned doesn't mean they can ignore the threats we all face, or refuse to help where they can.

This is a non-issue.

DWags wrote:Tough question for me. I mean fuck the terrorists, but government forcing a private company to help them is bothersome to me. That's a slippery slope in my opinion.

Are you sure this isn't already happening?

Apple isn't a private company. I mean, I know what you meant, I think. But they are public. Let's use the right terminology.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Apple isn't a private company. I mean, I know what you meant, I think. But they are public. Let's use the right terminology.

I'd like to publicly kick your ass.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Apple isn't a private company. I mean, I know what you meant, I think. But they are public. Let's use the right terminology.

I'd like to publicly kick your ass.

Weak. You need new material. You're getting soft.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

I'd like to publicly kick your ass.

Weak. You need new material. You're getting soft.

It's early, coffee is still kicking in. Give me some time, about as much as momma Cosmos gave me last night.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Weak. You need new material. You're getting soft.

It's early, coffee is still kicking in. Give me some time, about as much as momma Cosmos gave me last night.

Seriously though, are you trying to go the "am woods ex" route with this? Just curious. If you don't know what that means, let me know.

Vlad wrote:Private companies operating in the USA still have an obligation to contribute to the health and safety on fellow Americans. Just because they're "privately" owned doesn't mean they can ignore the threats we all face, or refuse to help where they can.

This is a non-issue.

That's what the judge said. It's worth debating imo.

The other end of that is where does it end as far as government saying they need to get into our phones?

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

It's early, coffee is still kicking in. Give me some time, about as much as momma Cosmos gave me last night.

Seriously though, are you trying to go the "am woods ex" route with this? Just curious. If you don't know what that means, let me know.

I don't like "I'm Cooler Than You" Travis. It's the worst kind of Travis, and that's saying something.

I don't want the government snooping around on my iPhone. Once you create a back door on a phone then it's easily accessed The government trying to force Apple to do this goes against what our freedoms are all about. I'd rather live free with risks in life than to live safe at the expense of our freedoms.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Seriously though, are you trying to go the "am woods ex" route with this? Just curious. If you don't know what that means, let me know.

I don't like "I'm Cooler Than You" Travis. It's the worst kind of Travis, and that's saying something.

Stop trying to beat it to death, that's all I'm saying. #realtalk

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

I don't like "I'm Cooler Than You" Travis. It's the worst kind of Travis, and that's saying something.

Stop trying to beat it to death, that's all I'm saying. #realtalk

We need to hug it out, broseph. #brohug

steveschneider wrote:I don't want the government snooping around on my iPhone. Once you create a back door on a phone then it's easily accessed The government trying to force Apple to do this goes against what our freedoms are all about. I'd rather live free with risks in life than to live safe at the expense of our freedoms.

I guess I'm pretty much with this. I get how it's important to thwart terrorism. But I just think we need to step lightly as to how much power we relinquish to government in doing so. Freedom does involve risks.

DWags wrote:

steveschneider wrote:I don't want the government snooping around on my iPhone. Once you create a back door on a phone then it's easily accessed The government trying to force Apple to do this goes against what our freedoms are all about. I'd rather live free with risks in life than to live safe at the expense of our freedoms.

I guess I'm pretty much with this. I get how it's important to thwart terrorism. But I just think we need to step lightly as to how much power we relinquish to government in doing so. Freedom does involve risks.

So risk more terrorist attacks in exchange for a little more freedom? This is pretty much why/how terrorist cells are operating in this country; they're using our own freedom to attack us. Those fucking 9/11 hijackers...they took FLYING LESSONS down in Florida fer cryin' out loud!

Sorry dwags, I'll trust my elected officials any day over letting terrorists use our freedom for their own twisted agenda. Yes, I understand the fears of letting government get too much into out business, but I'm not one who loses sleep over that. Generally, I trust my government and feel that there are enough checks and balances to prevent that.

NigelUno wrote:

DWags wrote:Tough question for me. I mean fuck the terrorists, but government forcing a private company to help them is bothersome to me. That's a slippery slope in my opinion.

My guess is the info was already obtained. Whatever "story" is being floated is just a cover.

This. They do what they want and figure out the details later.

Apple was never given a choice.

Vlad wrote:

DWags wrote:

I guess I'm pretty much with this. I get how it's important to thwart terrorism. But I just think we need to step lightly as to how much power we relinquish to government in doing so. Freedom does involve risks.

So risk more terrorist attacks in exchange for a little more freedom?

Yes.

Fuck the government.
Fuck the terrorists.

Tim Cook Opposes Order for Apple to Unlock iPhone, Setting Up Showdown

I agree with Wags on the slope shit...I'm sort of in the middle on this though. I don't think that someone should be required to let the government in to incriminate themselves. I do see the value in a case like this where the owner of the data is dead and perhaps we could stop another attack. Any law to support doing this would need to draw a firm line somewhere in there.

Yes, let's protect our freedom, to the extent that we end up offering it to terrorist too. Why not? We're such a giving nation.

Let's not waterboard 'em. That's not nice.
Let's not carpet bomb their cities. Not nice.
Let's not put more restriction on them entering our country. Un-American.
Let's not tap their phones. Our government might turn it around on us.

I know! Let's have a conversation about what else we can do. Because conversations are what we need.

Sorry, I'm on Trump's slide here.

Vlad wrote:Yes, let's protect our freedom, to the extent that we end up offering it to terrorist too. Why not? We're such a giving nation.

Let's not waterboard 'em. That's not nice.
Let's not carpet bomb their cities. Not nice.
Let's not put more restriction on them entering our country. Un-American.
Let's not tap their phones. Our government might turn it around on us.

I know! Let's have a conversation about what else we can do. Because conversations are what we need.

Sorry, I'm on Trump's slide here.

I'm down to torture someone who attempts to kill multiple people randomly, for sure, I mean like twist their ballsacks around with chicken wire or put a wet electric rod in their pee hole and turn it on, or we could put sharp toothed rodents up their booty holes or something, I'm down, really.... I'm just not down to fuck with all the people that have nothing to do with it in hopes we find that needle in the haystack.

Vlad wrote:

DWags wrote:

I guess I'm pretty much with this. I get how it's important to thwart terrorism. But I just think we need to step lightly as to how much power we relinquish to government in doing so. Freedom does involve risks.

So risk more terrorist attacks in exchange for a little more freedom? This is pretty much why/how terrorist cells are operating in this country; they're using our own freedom to attack us. Those fucking 9/11 hijackers...they took FLYING LESSONS down in Florida fer cryin' out loud!

Sorry dwags, I'll trust my elected officials any day over letting terrorists use our freedom for their own twisted agenda. Yes, I understand the fears of letting government get too much into out business, but I'm not one who loses sleep over that. Generally, I trust my government and feel that there are enough checks and balances to prevent that.

Except we've witnessed people being black listed and jobs lost already in this country because of the fear of communism. All I'm saying is, let's take a deep breath here.

Vlad wrote:Yes, let's protect our freedom, to the extent that we end up offering it to terrorist too. Why not? We're such a giving nation.

Let's not waterboard 'em. That's not nice.
Let's not carpet bomb their cities. Not nice.
Let's not put more restriction on them entering our country. Un-American.
Let's not tap their phones. Our government might turn it around on us.

I know! Let's have a conversation about what else we can do. Because conversations are what we need.

Sorry, I'm on Trump's slide here.

Let's say sodomy becomes an illegal act in your state. Let's say you enjoy getting it up the ass. Are you good with the governments ability to find those pictures on your phone and arrest you for that?

I get your point about the masses safety vs something petty like that, but if it becomes a slippery slope in our country we all could be taking it up the ass.

Vlad wrote:

DWags wrote:

I guess I'm pretty much with this. I get how it's important to thwart terrorism. But I just think we need to step lightly as to how much power we relinquish to government in doing so. Freedom does involve risks.

So risk more terrorist attacks in exchange for a little more freedom? This is pretty much why/how terrorist cells are operating in this country; they're using our own freedom to attack us. Those fucking 9/11 hijackers...they took FLYING LESSONS down in Florida fer cryin' out loud!

Sorry dwags, I'll trust my elected officials any day over letting terrorists use our freedom for their own twisted agenda. Yes, I understand the fears of letting government get too much into out business, but I'm not one who loses sleep over that.  Generally, I trust my government and feel that there are enough checks and balances to prevent that.

What's the risk of dying in a terrorist attack?

They are horrific deaths, and when you see them on the news cycle everyone is appalled. Yes, we have to stand up to it and do what we can to prevent the attacks. That being said your risk of dying in one is less than being crushed by furniture.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2015/11/23/youre-more-likely-to-be-fatally-crushed-by-furniture-than-killed-by-a-terrorist/

Also, I watched the Tim Cook interview on 60 Minutes. Once you create that back door on iPhones then it's becomes easier for hackers to get your data. No thank you.

xsanguine wrote:

Vlad wrote:Yes, let's protect our freedom, to the extent that we end up offering it to terrorist too. Why not? We're such a giving nation.

Let's not waterboard 'em. That's not nice.
Let's not carpet bomb their cities. Not nice.
Let's not put more restriction on them entering our country. Un-American.
Let's not tap their phones. Our government might turn it around on us.

I know! Let's have a conversation about what else we can do. Because conversations are what we need.

Sorry, I'm on Trump's slide here.

I'm down to torture someone who attempts to kill multiple people randomly, for sure, I mean like twist their ballsacks around with chicken wire or put a wet electric rod in their pee hole and turn it on, or we could put sharp toothed rodents up their booty holes or something, I'm down, really.... I'm just not down to fuck with all the people that have nothing to do with it in hopes we find that needle in the haystack.

That's kind of the nature of needles in haystacks, they just don't like to give themselves up. You gotta really put an effort into finding 'em.

DWags wrote:

Vlad wrote:Yes, let's protect our freedom, to the extent that we end up offering it to terrorist too. Why not? We're such a giving nation.

Let's not waterboard 'em. That's not nice.
Let's not carpet bomb their cities. Not nice.
Let's not put more restriction on them entering our country. Un-American.
Let's not tap their phones. Our government might turn it around on us.

I know! Let's have a conversation about what else we can do. Because conversations are what we need.

Sorry, I'm on Trump's slide here.

Let's say sodomy becomes an illegal act in your state. Let's say you enjoy getting it up the ass. Are you good with the governments ability to find those pictures on your phone and arrest you for that?

I get your point about the masses safety vs something petty like that, but if it becomes a slippery slope in our country we all could be taking it up the ass.

If you get my point, let's leave it at that. We can either deal with reality (increasing risk of terrorism within our borders, an estimated 300 sleeper cells operating right here in the USofA) or paint petty hypotheticals.

I'd rather deal with the present-day threat, and deal with the hypotherical if/when it happens. As I said, I'll trust my elected officials before I extend my freedoms to terrorists.

Vlad wrote:

DWags wrote:

Let's say sodomy becomes an illegal act in your state. Let's say you enjoy getting it up the ass. Are you good with the governments ability to find those pictures on your phone and arrest you for that?

I get your point about the masses safety vs something petty like that, but if it becomes a slippery slope in our country we all could be taking it up the ass.

If you get my point, let's leave it at that. We can either deal with reality (increasing risk of terrorism within our borders, an estimated 300 sleeper cells operating right here in the USofA) or paint petty hypotheticals.

I'd rather deal with the present-day threat, and deal with the hypotherical if/when it happens. As I said, I'll trust my elected officials before I extend my freedoms to terrorists.

Hollywood ten says hi.

Shockingly, I disagree with Vlad here. Dude trusts his government way too much - see what happens when people did that in Flint?

The conspiracy theory of the cover story is interesting, and probably true. But if it wasn't, why couldn't Apple negotiate to back door this one phone, their own engineers actually do the cracking and extract the data, and the software stays with them?

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Shockingly, I disagree with Vlad here. Dude trusts his government way too much - see what happens when people did that in Flint?

I agree. A large part of that is that I think statements like "an estimated 300 terror cells operating in the US" is a gigantic pile of bullshit/hyperbole. If there are that many, why haven't they done anything in 15 years? How do you define terror cell? Reeks of lies to get you to let them do what they want to you.

Vlad wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

I'm down to torture someone who attempts to kill multiple people randomly, for sure, I mean like twist their ballsacks around with chicken wire or put a wet electric rod in their pee hole and turn it on, or we could put sharp toothed rodents up their booty holes or something, I'm down, really.... I'm just not down to fuck with all the people that have nothing to do with it in hopes we find that needle in the haystack.

That's kind of the nature of needles in haystacks, they just don't like to give themselves up. You gotta really put an effort into finding 'em.

It's kind of like the drug war. We need to look at other ways of dealing with the root problem... Otherwise we're going to be playing whack a mole and who knows what freedom needs to be sacrificed next year as the flavor of the week.

Create a back door, wait until chinese hackers are getting into your phone stealing your data.

Terrible idea.

xsanguine wrote:

Vlad wrote:

That's kind of the nature of needles in haystacks, they just don't like to give themselves up. You gotta really put an effort into finding 'em.

It's kind of like the drug war. We need to look at other ways of dealing with the root problem... Otherwise we're going to be playing whack a mole and who knows what freedom needs to be sacrificed next year as the flavor of the week.

Start treating drug addiction as a medical problem, not a criminal problem.

steveschneider wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

It's kind of like the drug war. We need to look at other ways of dealing with the root problem... Otherwise we're going to be playing whack a mole and who knows what freedom needs to be sacrificed next year as the flavor of the week.

Start treating drug addiction as a medical problem, not a criminal problem.

#SteveFeelsTheBern

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Start treating drug addiction as a medical problem, not a criminal problem.

#SteveFeelsTheBern

I can't believe anyone is arguing that terrorist sympathizers who killed the shit out of American Citizens on American soil should have their privacy protected. There's ways to do this without letting the genie out of the bottle.

Rocinante wrote:I can't believe anyone is arguing that terrorist sympathizers who killed the shit out of American Citizens on American soil should have their privacy protected. There's ways to do this without letting the genie out of the bottle.

Are there? Cause, like, that's the actual issue. Not the other part. Just the genie part. Not so sure that everyone buys your "oh it'll just be the terrorists for reals" statement.

Rocinante wrote:I can't believe anyone is arguing that terrorist sympathizers who killed the shit out of American Citizens on American soil should have their privacy protected. There's ways to do this without letting the genie out of the bottle.

You and your racist puns. What's next... You're going to refer to them all as Aladdin?

I'm onto you, Abu.

steveschneider wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

It's kind of like the drug war. We need to look at other ways of dealing with the root problem... Otherwise we're going to be playing whack a mole and who knows what freedom needs to be sacrificed next year as the flavor of the week.

Start treating drug addiction as a medical problem, not a criminal problem.

Like..... Chyah!

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Rocinante wrote:I can't believe anyone is arguing that terrorist sympathizers who killed the shit out of American Citizens on American soil should have their privacy protected. There's ways to do this without letting the genie out of the bottle.

Are there? Cause, like, that's the actual issue. Not the other part. Just the genie part. Not so sure that everyone buys your "oh it'll just be the terrorists for reals" statement.

The thing is, I'm fairly certain the Patriot Act makes the denial of this order impossible. Apple is just making a show of it.