Re: Should Apple be forced to open suspected terrorists cell phone to the FBI?

by **DWags** 2016-02-17, 11:04

Rocinante wrote:I can't believe anyone is arguing that terrorist sympathizers who killed the shit out of American Citizens on American soil should have their privacy protected. There's ways to do this without letting the genie out of the bottle.

I don't think anyone is arguing that terrorists privacy should be protected. I do think many are of the opinion that it's not possible to do without letting the genie out.

I know it's going to happen and a court said make it happen, I just am not as trusting of a government which has passed the alien enemies act, the sedition act, prohibition and the emotionally driven patriot act 45 days after 9/11.

by **The_Dude** 2016-02-17, 11:24

Apple should help in this instance.

But Apple should not cave to the FBI and build backdoors into every phone they make so big brother can hack our phones whenever they get a suspicion.

by **steveschneider** 2016-02-17, 12:36

The_Dude wrote:Apple should help in this instance.

But Apple should not cave to the FBI and build backdoors into every phone they make so big brother can hack our phones whenever they get a suspicion.

Apple said they were doing everything to help in this case.

From what I saw this morning this case is probably headed to the supreme court.

by **Vlad** 2016-02-17, 12:39

The_Dude wrote:Apple should help in this instance.

But Apple should not cave to the FBI and build backdoors into every phone they make so big brother can hack our phones whenever they get a suspicion.

Agree. As long as both can be accomplished, we're good.

To the broader point of finding a balance between our liberties and public safety, terrorists must really love our laws over here. We make their lives so much easier with our magnanimous approach to things.

by **Floyd Robertson** 2016-02-17, 12:43

steveschneider wrote:I don't want the government snooping around on my iPhone. Once you create a back door on a phone then it's easily accessed The government trying to force Apple to do this goes against what our freedoms are all about. I'd rather live free with risks in life than to live safe at the expense of our freedoms.

Here' the problem with the back door, once it's in the wild it won't take hackers long to crack it for their own nefarious ends

by **DWags** 2016-02-17, 13:14

Vlad wrote:

To the broader point of finding a balance between our liberties and public safety, terrorists must really love our laws over here. We make their lives so much easier with our magnanimous approach to things.

And that's the dichotomy of freedom isn't it? As far as your belief (hope?) government can strike a balance between liberty and intrusion we all want it to be possible. There are, however, many examples that tell us once that shark tastes blood, it's hard to keep him appeased.

by **Vlad** 2016-02-17, 13:29

DWags wrote:
Vlad wrote:

To the broader point of finding a balance between our liberties and public safety, terrorists must really love our laws over here. We make their lives so much easier with our magnanimous approach to things.

And that's the dichotomy of freedom isn't it? As far as your belief (hope?) government can strike a balance between liberty and intrusion we all want it to be possible. There are, however, many examples that tell us once that shark tastes blood, it's hard to keep him appeased.

Isn't that why we change our elected officials every so often? Or do you view our government as a monolithic entity that wants to be the mother ship from a sci-fi flick?

Personally, if I were the terrorist-ish type, I'd set up shop in the US first before branching out elsewhere. We Americans are just so friendly and inviting.

by **DWags** 2016-02-17, 13:34

Vlad wrote:
DWags wrote:

And that's the dichotomy of freedom isn't it? As far as your belief (hope?) government can strike a balance between liberty and intrusion we all want it to be possible. There are, however, many examples that tell us once that shark tastes blood, it's hard to keep him appeased.

Isn't that why we change our elected officials every so often? Or do you view our government as a monolithic entity that wants to be the mother ship from a sci-fi flick?

I don't know, who did we elect in place of J Edgar?

Monolithic entities exist without election. And you're a very trusting soul. Good for you. I wish I could be. I know I'd sleep better.

by **MiamiSpartan** 2016-02-17, 14:08

Apple should chose on their own to do this for the sake of helping to prevent a disaster (assuming that the FBI presents reasonable/credible evidence that the person is a danger and that information on their phone will help).

But the FBI should not be able to FORCE them to do this, and certainly not FORCE them to build a backdoor. Maybe force them on a case by case basis only if a Federal judge issues a warrant (maybe even require 2-3 judges to sign off on something like that, if that's feasible).

I haven't read much about this particular case. Is the suspected terrorist already in custody and been charged?

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2016-02-17, 14:12

MiamiSpartan wrote:Apple should chose on their own to do this for the sake of helping to prevent a disaster (assuming that the FBI presents reasonable/credible evidence that the person is a danger and that information on their phone will help).

But the FBI should not be able to FORCE them to do this, and certainly not FORCE them to build a backdoor. Maybe force them on a case by case basis only if a Federal judge issues a warrant (maybe even require 2-3 judges to sign off on something like that, if that's feasible).

I haven't read much about this particular case. Is the suspected terrorist already in custody and been charged?

He's dead.

by **Vlad** 2016-02-17, 15:24

DWags wrote:
Vlad wrote:

Isn't that why we change our elected officials every so often? Or do you view our government as a monolithic entity that wants to be the mother ship from a sci-fi flick?

I don't know, who did we elect in place of J Edgar?

Monolithic entities exist without election. And you're a very trusting soul. Good for you. I wish I could be. I know I'd sleep better.

Trust more, and spend a bit less time on message boards. It will definitely help you sleep better.

by **DWags** 2016-02-17, 15:41

Vlad wrote:
DWags wrote:

I don't know, who did we elect in place of J Edgar?

Monolithic entities exist without election. And you're a very trusting soul. Good for you. I wish I could be. I know I'd sleep better.

Trust more, and spend a bit less time on message boards. It will definitely help you sleep better.

Did we elect J Edgar?

by **Vlad** 2016-02-17, 16:00

DWags wrote:
Vlad wrote:

Trust more, and spend a bit less time on message boards. It will definitely help you sleep better.

Did we elect J Edgar?

Did J Edgar work for someone we elected?

We can debate J Edgar's abuse of power 60 years ago, or we can address terrorism within our borders in 2016. There are sleeper cells and loan wolves using our laws to plot attacks against us. Times have changed, threats have changed, over those 60 or so years.

by Guest 2016-02-17, 16:18

MiamiSpartan wrote:I haven't read much about this particular case. Is the suspected terrorist already in custody and been charged?

It was the San Bernadino shooter.

Best analogy I've seen is this.....IF Apple were a bank the Feds aren't asking them to open a safe deposit box, they're asking for a master key for all the safe deposit boxes.

by **MiamiSpartan** 2016-02-17, 18:48

LooseGoose wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:I haven't read much about this particular case. Is the suspected terrorist already in custody and been charged?

It was the San Bernadino shooter.

Best analogy I've seen is this.....IF Apple were a bank the Feds aren't asking them to open a safe deposit box, they're asking for a master key for all the safe deposit boxes.

Right, and there is no circumstance where Apple should create a backdoor to all of their phones that a government organization would have access to. Minus well give them a key to everyone's house, car, passwords to everyone's computer/e-mail/paypal, etc. Of course that would give them the ability to invade someone's privacy, but what perhaps isn't being talked about as much (at least I don't think I've seen it in skimming this thread), is that such access would make it extremely easy for a law enforcement organization to plant evidence.

The road that this would start us down is very dangerous. It's happened before in history, where people give up their basic freedoms so that their government can better "protect" them. It never ends well for the people.

by **DWags** 2016-02-18, 06:58

Is apple resisting the court order? Thought I just heard that on business radio but was only half paying attention.

by **CORNER BLITZ** 2016-02-18, 09:01

DWags wrote:Is apple resisting the court order? Thought I just heard that on business radio but was only half paying attention.

http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/

by **I.B. Fine** 2016-02-18, 09:39

LooseGoose wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:I haven't read much about this particular case. Is the suspected terrorist already in custody and been charged?

It was the San Bernadino shooter.

Best analogy I've seen is this.....IF Apple were a bank the Feds aren't asking them to open a safe deposit box, they're asking for a master key for all the safe deposit boxes.

What I've been hearing is the FBI wants access to just the one phone, which seems reasonable.
If that's possible without creating a master key, I have no clue.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2016-02-18, 10:09

I like the folks who are down with torturing people as long as you don't mess with their cell phone.. Should Apple be forced to open suspected terrorists cell phone to the FBI? - Page 2 502811600

Should Apple be forced to open suspected terrorists cell phone to the FBI? - Page 2 502811600

by Guest 2016-02-19, 20:02

San Bernardino Shooter's Apple ID Passcode Changed While in Government Possession, Apple Says

The Apple ID passcode for the San Bernardino shooter's iPhone was changed less than 24 hours after authorities took possession of the device, a senior Apple executive said today.

And Apple could have recovered information from the phone had the Apple ID passcode not been changed, Apple said.

If the phone was taken to a location where it recognized the Wi-Fi network, such as the San Bernardino shooters' home, it could have been backed up to the cloud, Apple suggested.

The Justice Department acknowledged in its court filing that the passcode of Syed Farook's iCloud account had been reset. The filing states, "the owner [San Bernardino County Department of Public Health], in an attempt to gain access to some information in the hours after the attack, was able to reset the password remotely, but that had the effect of eliminating the possibility of an auto-backup."

The auto reset was executed by a county information technology employee, according to a federal official. Federal investigators only found out about the reset after it had occurred and that the county employee acted on his own, not on the orders of federal authorities, the source said.

Apple executives say the phone was in the possession of the government when that passcode was reset. A federal official familiar with the investigation confirmed that federal investigators were indeed in possession of the phone when the reset occurred.

by **Floyd Robertson** 2016-02-20, 16:29

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