Re: Family of the maker of the AR-15 comes out against its civilian use

by Guest 6/16/2016, 2:58 pm

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:

There's blood on the hands of anyone who thinks an AR or similar-style rifle should be in the hands of civilians. Now, I know that's a fuckload of people across the country, but then again, that's a fuckload of blood we're talking about. More than plenty to cover all those hands.
That's okay, though, because some of those folks might eventually get right with their Maker when they're called Home. And who knows, maybe they'll even be forgiven and welcomed at the Pearly Gates by the elementary schoolchildren from Newtown and the most recent departed, the dozens dead in Orlando. I doubt their families have had time to forgive, though, because they're still trying to get the horrific images, real or imagined, out of their minds.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, when Republicans decided that the NRA was more important than 20+ murdered kindergarten and first graders, our country was in trouble.

and, oddly enough, those very same people would likely consider themselves to be "pro-life"...

Such a straw man. But you keep setting them up.

by Guest 6/16/2016, 3:01 pm

Cameron wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

I keep repeating it because people keep blaming this scary gun which is bullshit. But then again bullshit is what people seem to desire.

Is an AR15 easier to go on a killing spree with than with a handgun, more difficult to go on a killing spree with than with a handgun, or the same level of difficulty to go on a killing spree with than with a handgun? And why?

If it needs to be a specific handgun for you to answer, let's go with a Glock 19.

Virginia Tech was done with a hand gun. It's no easier or harder. If you have a repeating firearm then you can kill a lot of people.

In the US 20 murders are committed each year with a hand gun for every 1 murder using a rifle. For some reason Democrats want to fixate on rifles. Can you answer why that is?

by **DWags** 6/16/2016, 3:04 pm

Meh, the chick from Roe V Wade is staunchly against abortions now.

It's not the point.

We have the right to choose. We have the second amendment. That's the debate.

Dr Openheimer famously said "I am become death, destroyer of Worlds" in the New Mexico desert. Welp doc, it's too late. Now we have to deal with it.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 6/16/2016, 3:08 pm

LooseGoose wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again, when Republicans decided that the NRA was more important than 20+ murdered kindergarten and first graders, our country was in trouble.

and, oddly enough, those very same people would likely consider themselves to be "pro-life"...

Such a straw man. But you keep setting them up.

just keep me in your thoughts and prayers..

by **tGreenWay** 6/16/2016, 3:36 pm

LooseGoose wrote:
Cameron wrote:

Is an AR15 easier to go on a killing spree with than with a handgun, more difficult to go on a killing spree with than with a handgun, or the same level of difficulty to go on a killing spree with than with a handgun? And why?

If it needs to be a specific handgun for you to answer, let's go with a Glock 19.

Virginia Tech was done with a hand gun. It's no easier or harder. If you have a repeating firearm then you can kill a lot of people.

In the US 20 murders are committed each year with a hand gun for every 1 murder using a rifle. For some reason Democrats want to fixate on rifles. Can you answer why that is?

You're right, the Second Amendment is settled law. People can own guns. But the Amendment does not say one person can own all the guns s/he wants, and it sure as shit doesn't say anything about restricting the sale of certain types of guns.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 6/16/2016, 3:40 pm

tGreenWay wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

Virginia Tech was done with a hand gun. It's no easier or harder. If you have a repeating firearm then you can kill a lot of people.

In the US 20 murders are committed each year with a hand gun for every 1 murder using a rifle. For some reason Democrats want to fixate on rifles. Can you answer why that is?

You're right, the Second Amendment is settled law. People can own guns. But the Amendment does not say one person can own all the guns s/he wants, and it sure as shit doesn't say anything about restricting the sale of certain types of guns.

according to the Associated Press, Sen. John McCain said: Obama is "directly responsible" for the Orlando shooting.

oh - and John McCain has taken in $7.4 million from the NRA - America's largest terror organization.

by **tGreenWay** 6/16/2016, 3:44 pm

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:

You're right, the Second Amendment is settled law. People can own guns. But the Amendment does not say one person can own all the guns s/he wants, and it sure as shit doesn't say anything about restricting the sale of certain types of guns.
according to the Associated Press, Sen. John McCain said: Obama is "directly responsible" for the Orlando shooting.

oh - and John McCain has taken in $7.4 million from the NRA - America's largest terror organization.

Color me shocked.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 6/16/2016, 3:49 pm

tGreenWay wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
according to the Associated Press, Sen. John McCain said: Obama is "directly responsible" for the Orlando shooting.

oh - and John McCain has taken in $7.4 million from the NRA - America's largest terror organization.

Color me shocked.

remember back in about the early-to-mid 90's when John McCain actually had a little bit of honor?

by **tGreenWay** 6/16/2016, 4:01 pm

LooseGoose wrote:
Cameron wrote:

Is an AR15 easier to go on a killing spree with than with a handgun, more difficult to go on a killing spree with than with a handgun, or the same level of difficulty to go on a killing spree with than with a handgun? And why?

If it needs to be a specific handgun for you to answer, let's go with a Glock 19.

Speaking only for myself, a liberal independent, I'd like to think we try to save as many lives as we can. The lives of those killed by an AR were worth trying to save, too.

Virginia Tech was done with a hand gun. It's no easier or harder. If you have a repeating firearm then you can kill a lot of people.

In the US 20 murders are committed each year with a hand gun for every 1 murder using a rifle. For some reason Democrats want to fixate on rifles. Can you answer why that is?

by **tGreenWay** 6/16/2016, 4:03 pm

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:

Color me shocked.
remember back in about the early-to-mid 90's when John McCain actually had a little bit of honor?

It's been years since then. Twenty, actually.

by Guest 6/16/2016, 4:09 pm

Robert J Sakimano wrote:oh - and John McCain has taken in $7.4 million from the NRA - America's largest terror organization.

Bob just loves to make things up.

1. Senator John McCain (R - Ariz.)
Although McCain’s voting record on gun control has bounced back and forth between restriction and gun rights, the former presidential candidate and renowned maverick among his peers has received over $500,000 in campaign donations from the NRA and other gun organizations between 1989 and 2012. Part of his voting history includes voting to loosen license and background checks at gun shows, and to allow weapons in checked baggage on Amtrak trains to name a few.

Unless McCain has taken in over $7 million in 4 years after receiving $500,000 in the prior 23 years you're way off.

The Top 5 Politicians In the Pocket of the NRA

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 6/16/2016, 4:18 pm

I saw the same 7million figure somewhere. Just sayin.

by Guest 6/16/2016, 4:22 pm

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I saw the same 7million figure somewhere. Just sayin.

I wouldn't doubt someone made that up. I went looking for the donation numbers and didn't find anything close to it.

My guess: Someone took all the $$ given to Republicans in '08 when McCain ran for President and attributed it to him. Wrong, but makes for a good story for the parrots.

by Guest 6/16/2016, 4:24 pm

Here's ThinkProgress which is about as left leaning as you can get from 2013:

Not Bought And Paid For: 10 Senators Who Are Bucking The NRA On Guns

Ten Senators have received more than $10,000 from the NRA’s political action committee over their Congressional careers, yet have at least expressed an openness to some new common-sense gun laws. They include:

1. SEN. JOHN McCAIN (R-AZ) — AT LEAST $33,200
McCain said last month that while he would not support bans on assault weapons or high capacity magazines, he was open to expanding background checks: “If there are improvements that need to be made, as I said, to keep these weapons out of the hands of criminals, I’m sure all Americans, including the NRA, would agree with them, I would think.”

by Guest 6/16/2016, 4:34 pm

Strangely the evil NRA seems to be missing from this list.......7 of the top 10 spenders are unions and Tom Steyer makes 8.
But then again I forgot that all union donations are for good not evil.

Top All-Time Donors
OpenSecrets.org's historically researched organizations

1 Service Employees International Union $232,694,670
2 National Education Assn $96,992,506
3 American Fedn of St/Cnty/Munic Employees $96,616,434
4 Fahr LLC $92,549,836
5 Carpenters & Joiners Union $80,703,022
6 American Federation of Teachers $76,640,133
7 National Assn of Realtors $73,814,910
8 Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $70,694,413
9 Las Vegas Sands $70,482,523
10 Laborers Union $69,199,057

Organization Profiles

by Guest 6/16/2016, 4:37 pm

And when we do find the NRA we see that in 2014 they ranked 239th in contributions to candidates - yep they run American politics.

National Rifle Assn

by **I.B. Fine** 6/16/2016, 4:49 pm

LooseGoose wrote:Strangely the evil NRA seems to be missing from this list.......7 of the top 10 spenders are unions and Tom Steyer makes 8.
But then again I forgot that all union donations are for good not evil.

Top All-Time Donors
OpenSecrets.org's historically researched organizations

1 Service Employees International Union $232,694,670
2 National Education Assn $96,992,506
3 American Fedn of St/Cnty/Munic Employees $96,616,434
4 Fahr LLC $92,549,836
5 Carpenters & Joiners Union $80,703,022
6 American Federation of Teachers $76,640,133
7 National Assn of Realtors $73,814,910
8 Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $70,694,413
9 Las Vegas Sands $70,482,523
10 Laborers Union $69,199,057

Organization Profiles

Isn't it about time someone investigated SEIU? More than double the next donor on the list and I doubt that includes what they spend to bus in mobs to phony protests.

by **tGreenWay** 6/16/2016, 4:51 pm

I don't know how much he's received directly from the NRA, but let's not forget all the other gun nut pacs and indirect dark money ads. The gun lobby is sure to have spent far more than what's listed on the NRA's list of those candidates bought and paid for.

by **I.B. Fine** 6/16/2016, 4:54 pm

tGreenWay wrote:I don't know how much he's received directly from the NRA, but let's not forget all the other gun nut pacs and indirect dark money ads. The gun lobby is sure to have spent far more than what's listed on the NRA's list of those candidates bought and paid for.

Hard to believe anyone is "bought and paid for" by the NRA if they aren't on that list. They're probably more like those guys with the sticker on the front fender in NASCAR, not on the hood.

by **tGreenWay** 6/16/2016, 5:17 pm

I.B. Fine wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:I don't know how much he's received directly from the NRA, but let's not forget all the other gun nut pacs and indirect dark money ads. The gun lobby is sure to have spent far more than what's listed on the NRA's list of those candidates bought and paid for.
Hard to believe anyone is "bought and paid for" by the NRA if they aren't on that list. They're probably more like those guys with the sticker on the front fender in NASCAR, not on the hood.

You can choose to believe that.

by **I.B. Fine** 6/16/2016, 5:31 pm

tGreenWay wrote:
I.B. Fine wrote:
Hard to believe anyone is "bought and paid for" by the NRA if they aren't on that list. They're probably more like those guys with the sticker on the front fender in NASCAR, not on the hood.

You can choose to believe that.

I have faith in our political class that they can take money with both hands and talk out of both sides of their mouth, simultaneously. They are a talented bunch.

by Guest 6/16/2016, 5:54 pm

tGreenWay wrote:I don't know how much he's received directly from the NRA, but let's not forget all the other gun nut pacs and indirect dark money ads. The gun lobby is sure to have spent far more than what's listed on the NRA's list of those candidates bought and paid for.

Well at least the media would have you believe that. I doubt that it's true and would really like to know. Do you know any other sources than OpenSecrets?

My guess is that the NRA is feared by politicians for a reason much scarier than $$.....they deliver VOTES, in bushels. I've lived in rural areas for the majority of my life (Metro Detroit for 5 years, Metro Tampa for 3 years) and out in the country the NRA endorsement is your ticket to office. Most of the time without it you might as well pack up and go home.

by **kingstonlake** 6/16/2016, 6:43 pm

The figure on McCain comes from the 7 million they dumped directly and indirectly to defeat Obama in 2008 when McCain ran against him

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pkNI3qiMGf7BKD-vnNm1CztcAbIrXDKK15UxG3GxDNM/edit?ts=575f2c14#gid=1782600961

by **Turtleneck** 6/16/2016, 7:10 pm

tGreenWay wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

Virginia Tech was done with a hand gun. It's no easier or harder. If you have a repeating firearm then you can kill a lot of people.

In the US 20 murders are committed each year with a hand gun for every 1 murder using a rifle. For some reason Democrats want to fixate on rifles. Can you answer why that is?

You're right, the Second Amendment is settled law. People can own guns. But the Amendment does not say one person can own all the guns s/he wants, and it sure as shit doesn't say anything about restricting the sale of certain types of guns.

Is the freedom of speech absolute? No

Is the freedom of assembly absolute? No

Is the freedom of the press absolute? No

Is religious liberty absolute? No

The courts have found restrictions on other constitutional protected liberties to be just fine. Whether I agree with restrictions or not, the liberties protected by the Constitution are rarely absolute.

by **Turtleneck** 6/16/2016, 7:18 pm

LooseGoose wrote:Strangely the evil NRA seems to be missing from this list.......7 of the top 10 spenders are unions and Tom Steyer makes 8.
But then again I forgot that all union donations are for good not evil.

Top All-Time Donors
OpenSecrets.org's historically researched organizations

1 Service Employees International Union $232,694,670
2 National Education Assn $96,992,506
3 American Fedn of St/Cnty/Munic Employees $96,616,434
4 Fahr LLC $92,549,836
5 Carpenters & Joiners Union $80,703,022
6 American Federation of Teachers $76,640,133
7 National Assn of Realtors $73,814,910
8 Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $70,694,413
9 Las Vegas Sands $70,482,523
10 Laborers Union $69,199,057

Organization Profiles

...just skipped past that $27M in outside spending part...

by Guest 6/16/2016, 8:59 pm

Turtleneck wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:Strangely the evil NRA seems to be missing from this list.......7 of the top 10 spenders are unions and Tom Steyer makes 8.
But then again I forgot that all union donations are for good not evil.

Organization Profiles

...just skipped past that $27M in outside spending part...

Yes I did, since that was 9th on a different chart and wouldn't have come close to cracking the top 10 on the chart I posted. So --- your point?

As usual you guys love to pick at what I post but I include links to my sources so you can do so. I'll wait for the day when one of you calls Bob out on his bullshit "facts" with no links or sourcing. I understand you don't want to do that because he might turn on you but give me a fucking break. I didn't mislead AT ALL here, the $27 million wasn't even in the same chart.

by **Turtleneck** 6/16/2016, 9:28 pm

LooseGoose wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:

...just skipped past that $27M in outside spending part...

Yes I did, since that was 9th on a different chart and wouldn't have come close to cracking the top 10 on the chart I posted. So --- your point?

As usual you guys love to pick at what I post but I include links to my sources so you can do so. I'll wait for the day when one of you calls Bob out on his bullshit "facts" with no links or sourcing. I understand you don't want to do that because he might turn on you but give me a fucking break. I didn't mislead AT ALL here, the $27 million wasn't even in the same chart.

Ranked 10th in outside spending...does not want to talk about seedy electioneering as if it does not matter...wants to talk about the chart he posted and nothing else because it deflects from other ways the NRA has invested in electoral politics. In that sense, you did try to mislead.

By the way, I don't give a fuck about your fake guns debate where you pretend to care about freedom while others pretend to care about human life.

by Guest 6/16/2016, 9:39 pm

The facts used about the NRA were wrong, so cuss at me. OK. Standard outcome.

by **Turtleneck** 6/16/2016, 9:41 pm

LooseGoose wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:

...just skipped past that $27M in outside spending part...

Yes I did, since that was 9th on a different chart and wouldn't have come close to cracking the top 10 on the chart I posted. So --- your point?

As usual you guys love to pick at what I post but I include links to my sources so you can do so. I'll wait for the day when one of you calls Bob out on his bullshit "facts" with no links or sourcing. I understand you don't want to do that because he might turn on you but give me a fucking break. I didn't mislead AT ALL here, the $27 million wasn't even in the same chart.

Now your upset by cussing?

Edit: you're

by Guest 6/16/2016, 9:47 pm

Turtleneck wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

Yes I did, since that was 9th on a different chart and wouldn't have come close to cracking the top 10 on the chart I posted. So --- your point?

As usual you guys love to pick at what I post but I include links to my sources so you can do so. I'll wait for the day when one of you calls Bob out on his bullshit "facts" with no links or sourcing. I understand you don't want to do that because he might turn on you but give me a fucking break. I didn't mislead AT ALL here, the $27 million wasn't even in the same chart.

Now your upset by cussing?

Yep, I'm upset about everything remember? That's what GodBobby preaches. IF you don't believe it you might be outcast.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 6/17/2016, 7:50 am

bump for all of the "pro life" people who have no problem with folks getting murdered.

by Guest 6/17/2016, 8:49 am

Not bad for a Democrat gun grabber - 3 claims and only 8 Pinocchios from the Washington Post.

Fact checking three Democratic claims on assault weapons and guns

“AR-15-style weapons weren’t legal in the United States until 2004 after being banned for 10 years. It is not coincidental that there was a massive increase in mass shootings in this country after 2004.”

–Murphy, June 15

This is another problematic claim. Murphy’s staff could not point to specific data to back it up.

There is significant contrary data that shows the 10-year assault weapons ban had little, if any, effect.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 6/17/2016, 11:03 am

LooseGoose wrote:Not bad for a Democrat gun grabber - 3 claims and only 8 Pinocchios from the Washington Post.

Fact checking three Democratic claims on assault weapons and guns

“AR-15-style weapons weren’t legal in the United States until 2004 after being banned for 10 years. It is not coincidental that there was a massive increase in mass shootings in this country after 2004.”

–Murphy, June 15

This is another problematic claim. Murphy’s staff could not point to specific data to back it up.

There is significant contrary data that shows the 10-year assault weapons ban had little, if any, effect.

my thoughts and prayers are with gun owners during this very difficult time.

by Guest 6/17/2016, 1:04 pm

Family of the maker of the AR-15 comes out against its civilian use - Page 2 Parrot

It's repeated contributions like this that have made you god-like to OTPT, he knows you really care more than anyone else.

by Guest 6/19/2016, 3:22 pm

The Problem With "Assault Weapons" Bans, Illustrated

Massachusetts passed a state "assault weapons" ban in 1994 that was similar to the federal one, with a glaring exception ... the MA ban did not sunset after 10 years, so it's still in effect.

Now for the fun part ... one of the two functionally-identical rifles pictured below, if newly-manufactured, could not be legally purchased by a resident of Massachusetts while the other could. Which one is illegal, and why?

Family of the maker of the AR-15 comes out against its civilian use - Page 2 ARs

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