Donald Trump Talks With President of Taiwan

Trade war coming with China?

Probably looking for cheap steel for one of his hotels.

Was this intentional or is he just stupid?

Christ the whole thing is a joke anyway - we do billions in business with Taiwan. Why not talk to them. Piss on the chinese.

LooseGoose wrote:Christ the whole thing is a joke anyway - we do billions in business with Taiwan. Why not talk to them. Piss on the chinese.

See at first blush I'm with you. But I took enough poli sci as a minor at MSU to be sufficiently embarrassed in my 400 level classes with my declarations. I think we're going to have an administration who acts on impulse. Might be entertaining

I believe she called him. Maybe he should have ignored her call? LOL

What is this, high school? You can't talk to so-and-so because so-and-so might get mad? ROFL

LooseGoose wrote:Christ the whole thing is a joke anyway - we do billions in business with Taiwan. Why not talk to them. Piss on the chinese.

What's $659,000,000 in trade?

There is diplomacy and China is chomping at the bit to overtake the US as the #1 super power.

You own any stocks?
What happens if China decides to make life miserable for Buick?
GM sold 850,000 in China so far in '16. They are around 275,000 in the US and Canada.

Do you want to see the US enter into armed conflict if China starts to squeeze Taiwan?

Want to see your local Meijer, Walmarts, Targets start scrambling for inventory if China suddenly has shipping issues?

This isn't Mao's China.
We need them for our consumer market more than they need us.

The Liberals got their marching orders from the NYT on this! LOL

Obama talks to Castro. Libs and media:

Trump talks to Ing-wen. Libs and media:

Are you really that much of a simpleton?

Just a slowdown in Chinese goods reaching out ports for 4 to 6 weeks cripples the US economy.

GRR Spartan wrote:Are you really that much of a simpleton?

Just a slowdown in Chinese goods reaching out ports for 4 to 6 weeks cripples the US economy.

Yeah, China needs us as much as we need them. But yeah, I'm the simpleton in this exchange.

TheReal_LWS wrote:

GRR Spartan wrote:Are you really that much of a simpleton?

Just a slowdown in Chinese goods reaching out ports for 4 to 6 weeks cripples the US economy.

Yeah, China needs us as much as we need them. But yeah, I'm the simpleton in this exchange.

What do you do for a living?
I'm in construction sales and know about 80% to 85% possibly up to 90% of residential lighting (fixtures, bathroom fans, ceiling fans, wall switches and outlets) are made in China.

All China has to do is hold up or slow down shipments in that market segment and the US housing market grinds to a crawl or worse.

GRR Spartan wrote:

TheReal_LWS wrote:

Yeah, China needs us as much as we need them. But yeah, I'm the simpleton in this exchange.

What do you do for a living?
I'm in construction sales and know about 80% to 85% possibly up to 90% of residential lighting (fixtures, bathroom fans, ceiling fans, wall switches and outlets) are made in China.

All China has to do is hold up or slow down shipments in that market segment and the US housing market grinds to a crawl or worse.

And cripple their own shaky economy as well. The new cold war, mutually assured destruction. Difference? China has a lot more people to worry about.

Except the Chinese don't care nearly as much as you believe. Many of those factories can change what they produce.

Its a small slice of their exports that can cripple the housing market. A 30-90 day delay means banks don't collect new mortgages, spec homes sit unfinished, same goes for aprtment projects.

American Exceptionalism is dead.

TheReal_LWS wrote:I believe she called him. Maybe he should have ignored her call? LOL

What is this, high school? You can't talk to so-and-so because so-and-so might get mad? ROFL

Says a man who is informed off of Donald Trump's twitter account.

-----

From the NYT article.


"But diplomats with ties to Taiwan said it was highly unlikely that the Taiwanese leader would have made the call without arranging it in advance. Ms. Tsai’s office confirmed that it had taken place, saying the two had discussed promoting economic development and “strengthening defense.” Taiwan’s Central News Agency hailed the call as “historic.”"


And, looks like Trump wants to build hotels in Taiwan.

Hoping and praying the electoral college does the right thing and not elect this buffoon. They are our last hope.

LooseGoose wrote:Christ the whole thing is a joke anyway - we do billions in business with Taiwan.   Why not talk to them. Piss on the chinese.

Hmm, where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, Donald Trump's Twitter account.

Funny you two wing nuts are just spewing out your masters tweets. Snap out of it you two, you've been brain washed.

steveschneider wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:Christ the whole thing is a joke anyway - we do billions in business with Taiwan.   Why not talk to them. Piss on the chinese.

Hmm, where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, Donald Trump's Twitter account.

Funny you two wing nuts are just spewing out your masters tweets. Snap out of it you two, you've been brain washed.

lol, I do not get his twitter account.  Since you must get his account, when did he say that?   Before or after me?

Well I'll be goddamned....he said it 18 minutes before my post. But I never saw it until I went and looked it up after you accused me of parroting him. In this case I obviously agree with his point.



Donald J. TrumpVerified account ‏@realDonaldTrump
Interesting how the U.S. sells Taiwan billions of dollars of military equipment but I should not accept a congratulatory call.
8:41 PM - 2 Dec 2016

Some background stories...

Why Donald Trump's Taiwan Call Changes Everything

So, Why Can't You Call Taiwan?

Trump wants to expand business empire to Taiwan, creating another potential conflict of interest

LooseGoose wrote:Well I'll be goddamned....he said it 18 minutes before my post. But I never saw it until I went and looked it up after you accused me of parroting him. In this case I obviously agree with his point.



Donald J. TrumpVerified account ‏@realDonaldTrump
Interesting how the U.S. sells Taiwan billions of dollars of military equipment but I should not accept a congratulatory call.
8:41 PM - 2 Dec 2016

If you say that I believe you that it's a coincidence. Apologies.

LooseGoose wrote:Some background stories...

Why Donald Trump's Taiwan Call Changes Everything

So, Why Can't You Call Taiwan?

I read that Atlantic article last night, it was a good read.

steveschneider wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:Well I'll be goddamned....he said it 18 minutes before my post. But I never saw it until I went and looked it up after you accused me of parroting him. In this case I obviously agree with his point.



Donald J. TrumpVerified account ‏@realDonaldTrump
Interesting how the U.S. sells Taiwan billions of dollars of military equipment but I should not accept a congratulatory call.
8:41 PM - 2 Dec 2016

If you say that I believe you that it's a coincidence. Apologies.

lol, imagine my shock when I went to prove you wrong.......thank you for trusting me being truthful.

Where was the media outrage here?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/politics/obama-dalai-lama/

TheReal_LWS wrote:Where was the media outrage here?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/politics/obama-dalai-lama/

1. Because the politics of the Taiwan Strait are far more complex than the politics of Tibet. The complexity is driven by a tension and potential for conflict absent from the Tibet issue. It is unlikely that the PRC allows Taiwan to become an independent state without the use of force. This puts the U.S. in a precarious position relative to the PRC and Taiwan.

2. To deal with this precarious position, the U.S. crafted what they call a "one China" policy. The policy commits the U.S. to recognizing there is one China and Taiwan is part of that China. However, the policy is defined by what is referred to as "strategic ambiguity." The U.S. does not support the PRC's claim to Taiwan and does not support Taiwanese independence.

3. The original security agreement between the U.S. and Taiwan was the Eisenhower era Mutual Defense Treaty (1954). The MDT allowed for official diplomatic relations between the U.S. and Taiwan. Most importantly, the MDT guaranteed the U.S. would treat an attack on Taiwan as an attack on the U.S. However, in 1972, the U.S. began shifting to the center on the Taiwan issue. The cumulation of this shift was the "one China" policy and "strategic ambiguity."

4. In 1972, through a joint declaration with the PRC, the U.S. recognized Taiwan as a part of China without recognizing who China belonged to, the Chinese Communist Party on the mainland or the U.S. backed KMT that fled to Taiwan in 1949. The U.S. also agreed withdraw its military presence from the island. In 1979, in another joint declaration, the U.S. continued its shift to the center. The U.S. recognized the Chinese Communist Party as the "legal government of [mainland] China" and officially ended diplomatic relations with Taiwan. Later in 1979, the Taiwan Relations Act replaced our security obligation to Taiwan with an agreement to sell the island defensive weapons (to resist Chinese coercion). Another joint declaration in 1982 and Clinton's "three no's" policy - oppose Taiwanese independence, oppose two Chinas, oppose Taiwanese admission to the U.N. - helped move the U.S. to its current "one China" policy.

5. In the 1990s, Bill Clinton slowly began to break the diplomatic silence between the U.S. and Taiwan. In the spring of 1995, Clinton agreed to grant then Taiwanese president Lee Teng-hui a travel visa to the U.S. This proved costly. Something as simple as allowing the Taiwanese president to visit the U.S. seriously provoked the PRC.

6. In the fall of 1995, and lasting through the spring of 1996, the PRC began conducting military exercises and missile testing in the Taiwan Strait. It was serious enough that the U.S. deployed a carrier fleet to the Strait.  

7. The above story is often said to have two parts. The first is the PRC sending a warning to the U.S. to return to diplomatic silence with Taiwan. The other is that the PRC was trying to influence the outcome of Taiwan's presidential election, scheduled for March of 1996. Lee was running for re-election against rival Chen Shui-bian. Lee was from the pro-unification KMT, and Chen from the pro-independence DPP. The PRC was happier with the KMT in charge. While the KMT would never reunify with a communist mainland, the KMT did see Taiwan as part of China. The DPP supported a clean break and statehood for Taiwan. Lee won re-election, but Chen and the DPP captured the presidency in 2000.

8. Flash forward to 2016. Who did Trump take a call from? Tsai Ing-wen of the pro-independence DPP. The KMT took back the presidency in 2008, but in January it was again won by the DPP. So yes, this was a complete diplomatic screw up because not only does it violate decades of U.S.-PRC relations, but China will no doubt read this as Trump being friendly with a pro-independence president in Taiwan. The "one China" policy is meant to send mutual reassurances to both sides of the Taiwan Strait. To Taiwan we say we will help you resist mainland coercion. To the PRC we say we will not support Taiwanese independence. The phone call threatens to upset the present status quo in the Strait, which has proven stable. The region is already on edge with PRC throwing its weight around in the South China Sea and claiming it will not respect a recent Permanent Court of Arbitration decision regarding territorial claims in the South China Sea.

9. This is another example of Trump being a foreign policy liability. He has no sense of history and is completely unaware of current U.S. foreign policy positions.

10. Here is the TL;DR question for those saying this is no big deal: Trump says he wants to retrench. How is the U.S. supposed drawback if the president plans to antagonize our rivals? You cannot do both. If you want to antagonize expect to be engaged. If you expect to disengage do not antagonize. It seems simple. Can you explain how the U.S. can do both at the same time?

Dan McLaughlin ‏@baseballcrank 2h2 hours ago
A smart friend who watches Asia-Pacific issues notes that it takes two sides to have a Trump-Tsai phone call.

GRR Spartan wrote:Are you really that much of a simpleton?

Just a slowdown in Chinese goods reaching out ports for 4 to 6 weeks cripples the US economy.

What would that do to their economy?

Great article about Taiwan/China/US relations and the history of the delicate situation in today's Sunday Times. I learned a lot about the entire situation.

Also, of note Pence did an artful dodge on the question of who called who.

"This was a courtesy call *of* the democratically-elected president of Taiwan."

Good one.

Sounds like that radical Bob Dole arranged the call....

Donald Trump’s Message Sparks Anger in China

Chinese officials late Friday and early Saturday played down Mr. Trump’s precedent-breaking phone call with Taiwan President Tsai Ing-wen, which a transition official said had been arranged by Bob Dole, the former Republican senator and presidential nominee. The call went beyond pleasantries and included a discussion about China and stability in the Asia-Pacific, according to a person familiar with the call. The Chinese directed their ire at Taiwan and not at Mr. Trump.

LooseGoose wrote:Sounds like that radical Bob Dole arranged the call....

Donald Trump’s Message Sparks Anger in China

Chinese officials late Friday and early Saturday played down Mr. Trump’s precedent-breaking phone call with Taiwan President Tsai Ing-wen, which a transition official said had been arranged by Bob Dole, the former Republican senator and presidential nominee. The call went beyond pleasantries and included a discussion about China and stability in the Asia-Pacific, according to a person familiar with the call. The Chinese directed their ire at Taiwan and not at Mr. Trump.

They are scared of Trump.

DWags wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:Christ the whole thing is a joke anyway - we do billions in business with Taiwan.   Why not talk to them.  Piss on the chinese.

See at first blush I'm with you. But I took enough poli sci as a minor at MSU to be sufficiently embarrassed in my 400 level classes with my declarations.  I think we're going to have an administration who acts on impulse. Might be entertaining

There is zero evidence except fear mongering by the left that Trump will make key decisions using emotion and impulse.

Successful people like him actually do the opposite.  He looks at facts and makes decisions off of those, because he does what works to get the job done.  And he isnt some political ideologue like Obama.

The left crying wolf over everything Trump does just makes people tune you out when he does something worthy of criticism.  Thats why he could say crazy things on the campaign trail and no one cared.

The days of having a weak leader is over.  We are going to level the playing field.  Like Trump said to these countries, if their trade deals with the US is so good for us, how about we reverse roles?  Its a great deal, right?

TheReal_LWS wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:Sounds like that radical Bob Dole arranged the call....

Donald Trump’s Message Sparks Anger in China

They are scared of Trump.

They know their days of bullying a weak America are over.

Trump is certainly signaling a change in the center of gravity. He is totally into the gamesmanship, aka 'art of the deal', the question is how irrational can entities like the PRC be when dealing with him over their own self interest.
Will they cut their own nose off to spite Trump/USA?
I'm guessing Trump believes their leadership has become too comfortable to risk throwing their (and our) economy into turmoil.

I.B. Fine wrote:Trump is certainly signaling a change in the center of gravity. He is totally into the gamesmanship, aka 'art of the deal', the question is how irrational can entities like the PRC be when dealing with him over their own self interest.
Will they cut their own nose off to spite Trump/USA?
I'm guessing Trump believes their leadership has become too comfortable to risk throwing their (and our) economy into turmoil.

There is no win for the U.S. by provoking China on this issue. More importantly, as I asked above, how does Trump plan to drawback U.S. forces while provoking our rivals? Trump has said he wants the U.S. to less engaged.

Trump does not understand this issue or the related history. Bound up in this issue is a strong mainland Chinese nationalism, which is often manipulated by the CPC as a means of maintaining legitimacy. The PRC has always been adamant about reunification, and within the context of mainland Chinese nationalism the CPC is not in position to watch Taiwan drift toward independence. As a I stated above, when Clinton allowed Lee to visit the U.S., the PRC responded with aggressive military exercises and missile tests in the Taiwan Strait (admittedly it was likely not tied to only the visit).

PRC history has shown they will resort to violence to protect territory. The PRC fought a small border war with the Soviets in the late 60s. Concerns about the Soviets is one reason why the PRC sought to normalize relations with the U.S. in the 70s. The territorial issue, the nationalism...I do not think the PRC lets Taiwan drift too far without some kind of show of force, maybe not unlike the exercises and tests of the 90s. Right now that will not happen, but Trump should be careful not to further provoke the PRC so that we can avoid a repeat of the 90s.

Turtleneck wrote:

I.B. Fine wrote:Trump is certainly signaling a change in the center of gravity. He is totally into the gamesmanship, aka 'art of the deal', the question is how irrational can entities like the PRC be when dealing with him over their own self interest.
Will they cut their own nose off to spite Trump/USA?
I'm guessing Trump believes their leadership has become too comfortable to risk throwing their (and our) economy into turmoil.

There is no win for the U.S. by provoking China on this issue. More importantly, as I asked above, how does Trump plan to drawback U.S. forces while provoking our rivals? Trump has said he wants the U.S. less engaged.

Trump does not understand this issue or the related history. Bound up in this issue is a strong mainland Chinese nationalism, which is often manipulated by the CPC as a means of maintaining legitimacy. The PRC has always been adamant about reunification, and within the context of mainland Chinese nationalism the CPC is not in position to watch Taiwan drift toward independence. As a I stated above, when Clinton allowed Lee to visit the U.S., the PRC responded with aggressive military exercises and missile tests in the Taiwan Strait (it was likely not tied to only the visit).

PRC history has shown they will resort to violence to protect territory. The PRC fought a small border war with the Soviets in the late 60s. Concerns about the Soviets is one reason why the PRC sought to normalize relations with the U.S. in the 70s. The territorial issue, the nationalism...I do not think the PRC lets Taiwan drift too far without some kind of show of force, maybe not unlike the exercises and tests of the 90s. Right now that will not happen, but Trump should be careful not to further provoke the PRC.

Trump taking advice from the liberal appeasement cucks....lmfao.

And China provokes USA 10x worse than anything we do to them.

Your political and historical illiteracy has never been more apparent than this thread.

On a side note, when it comes to Trump's foreign policy, the complaints have come from as many conservative and they have liberals.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-message-sparks-anger-in-china-1480989202

Looks like Bob Dole arranged the call?

Mr. Dole, in an interview, said the law firm he is affiliated with does work with the Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office in the U.S., and that the firm played a role in arranging the phone call. “It’s fair to say that we may have had some influence,” Mr. Dole said.

---

According to Buzzfeed(take it for what it is worth) the lawfirm he's a partner with is paid 20,000k a month by Taiwan to lobby for them in Washington. I'm not convinced yet, Buzzfeed is a so so news website in my book.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/309019-bob-doles-law-firm-was-paid-20000-per-month-by-taiwan

steveschneider wrote:http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-message-sparks-anger-in-china-1480989202

Looks like Bob Dole arranged the call?

Mr. Dole, in an interview, said the law firm he is affiliated with does work with the Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office in the U.S., and that the firm played a role in arranging the phone call. “It’s fair to say that we may have had some influence,” Mr. Dole said.

---

According to Buzzfeed(take it for what it is worth) the lawfirm he's a partner with is paid 20,000k a month by Taiwan to lobby for them in Washington. I'm not convinced yet, Buzzfeed is a so so news website in my book.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/309019-bob-doles-law-firm-was-paid-20000-per-month-by-taiwan

Bob Dole.. former US Senator and presidential nominee??

but I thought Trump was gonna #DrainTheSwamp... the deplorables told me so..

Any bets on who will be the next elected leader that Trump talks to that will outrage the left? Bob? Who do you think?

The fucking nerve of a president elect to talk to an allied leader...the nerve I tell ya.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

steveschneider wrote:http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-message-sparks-anger-in-china-1480989202

Looks like Bob Dole arranged the call?

Mr. Dole, in an interview, said the law firm he is affiliated with does work with the Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office in the U.S., and that the firm played a role in arranging the phone call. “It’s fair to say that we may have had some influence,” Mr. Dole said.

---

According to Buzzfeed(take it for what it is worth) the lawfirm he's a partner with is paid 20,000k a month by Taiwan to lobby for them in Washington. I'm not convinced yet, Buzzfeed is a so so news website in my book.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/309019-bob-doles-law-firm-was-paid-20000-per-month-by-taiwan

Bob Dole.. former US Senator and presidential nominee??

but I thought Trump was gonna #DrainTheSwamp... the deplorables told me so..

You should read those articles I posted from liberal news sources about not taking Trump literally. It's a good treatment option for people like you who suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome.

But, otoh, reading your mental breakdowns and knowing the anguish you are suffering from is damn entertaining.

This jousting over Taiwan wouldn’t be so worrisome if other aspects of the U.S.-Asia policy were intact. But Trump’s pledge to tear up the TPP in his first days in office has sent the other 11 nations that signed the pact scrambling for cover — with some talking of making new deals with a Beijing that is eager to fill the void.

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, the United States’ most important Asian ally, said last month that TPP members would consider joining a rival, Chinese-led trade agreement known as the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, or RCEP. “There’s no doubt that there would be a pivot to the RCEP if the TPP doesn’t go forward,” Abe said. Peru and Australia, two other TPP signatories, also indicated they might join the RCEP.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/trump-flunks-his-first-foreign-policy-test/2016/12/06/10b2dcbe-bbfd-11e6-ac85-094a21c44abc_story.html?utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=buffer78b4a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_term=.53f84ee2a977

This is an interesting take. I certainly think the TPP and most trade agreements are bad for American workers. However, in the case of the TPP, I realize that backing away does send a message to our friends in Asia that we are not credible in our commitments. The consequence of that, plus unnecessary bickering over Taiwan, might actually have the end result of strengthening China and weakening the US in Asia.