Re: The Swill Bin Religion thread

[Robert J Sakimano]

religion is the root of all misery and evil in the world.

[DWags]

religion is the root of all misery and evil in the world.

I mean I don’t have stats, but I’d put it up there with any diseases as a leading cause of death and misery.

[Rocinante]

People would find some other way to be evil to one another even without religion Bob

[Robert J Sakimano]

People would find some other way to be evil to one another even without religion Bob

maybe, but they would claim religion in order to appeal to those incapable of thinking for themselves.. or they would perpetuate their evil under the protective umbrella of a religious society providing them a safe harbor.

[MiamiSpartan]

People would find some other way to be evil to one another even without religion Bob

maybe, but they would claim religion in order to appeal to those incapable of thinking for themselves.. or they would perpetuate their evil under the protective umbrella of a religious society providing them a safe harbor.

Not necessarily. The Soviet Union and other communist regimes are a great example. Religion was/is completely outlawed. Yet they're responsible for the murder, torture, and violent oppression of tens of millions. The Nazis, while maybe ostensibly Christian by name, was not religious movement, and any church had to be secondary to nationalism. Even the "Jewish question" was more about ethnicity than religion. Go back further and many of the great oppressive empires were not heavily centered on religion (the Mongols, pre-Constantine Romans, and many ancient empires).

Evil doers will use a cause to rally people behind them (could be religion, but also could be the greater good, could be nationalism, could be simple force). Religion is easier to use because it already has a lot if followers and they don't have to come up with any ideas on their own.

[Robert J Sakimano]

maybe, but they would claim religion in order to appeal to those incapable of thinking for themselves.. or they would perpetuate their evil under the protective umbrella of a religious society providing them a safe harbor.

Not necessarily. The Soviet Union and other communist regimes are a great example. Religion was/is completely outlawed. Yet they're responsible for the murder, torture, and violent oppression of tens of millions. The Nazis, while maybe ostensibly Christian by name, was not religious movement, and any church had to be secondary to nationalism. Even the "Jewish question" was more about ethnicity than religion. Go back further and many of the great oppressive empires were not heavily centered on religion (the Mongols, pre-Constantine Romans, and many ancient empires).

Evil doers will use a cause to rally people behind them (could be religion, but also could be the greater good, could be nationalism, could be simple force). Religion is easier to use because it already has a lot if followers and they don't have to come up with any ideas on their own.

but religious countries condone these actions, do nothing about them.. and typically benefit from the evil.

[MiamiSpartan]

Not necessarily. The Soviet Union and other communist regimes are a great example. Religion was/is completely outlawed. Yet they're responsible for the murder, torture, and violent oppression of tens of millions. The Nazis, while maybe ostensibly Christian by name, was not religious movement, and any church had to be secondary to nationalism. Even the "Jewish question" was more about ethnicity than religion. Go back further and many of the great oppressive empires were not heavily centered on religion (the Mongols, pre-Constantine Romans, and many ancient empires).

Evil doers will use a cause to rally people behind them (could be religion, but also could be the greater good, could be nationalism, could be simple force). Religion is easier to use because it already has a lot if followers and they don't have to come up with any ideas on their own.

but religious countries condone these actions, do nothing about them.. and typically benefit from the evil.

Religious countries condoned the Nazis and Soviets?

[Robert J Sakimano]

but religious countries condone these actions, do nothing about them.. and typically benefit from the evil.

Religious countries condoned the Nazis and Soviets?

not sure if you remember, but we had a Russian asset who is also a christian in the White House for 4 years.. and a major political party in the United States who identifies very closely with christianity is also beholden to the former Soviet Union. If you want to nitpick "Russia" vs. "Soviet Union", you're welcome to.

and I'm pretty sure that Naziism (is that a word?) was rooted in religion. I barely graduated high school, so I don't know for sure.

[MiamiSpartan]

Religious countries condoned the Nazis and Soviets?

not sure if you remember, but we had a Russian asset who is also a christian in the White House for 4 years.. and a major political party in the United States who identifies very closely with christianity is also beholden to the former Soviet Union. If you want to nitpick "Russia" vs. "Soviet Union", you're welcome to.

and I'm pretty sure that Naziism (is that a word?) was rooted in religion. I barely graduated high school, so I don't know for sure.

You're making some incredible leaps to justify your position despite all the facts to the contrary, but you do you.

[Robert J Sakimano]

not sure if you remember, but we had a Russian asset who is also a christian in the White House for 4 years.. and a major political party in the United States who identifies very closely with christianity is also beholden to the former Soviet Union. If you want to nitpick "Russia" vs. "Soviet Union", you're welcome to.

and I'm pretty sure that Naziism (is that a word?) was rooted in religion. I barely graduated high school, so I don't know for sure.

You're making some incredible leaps to justify your position despite all the facts to the contrary, but you do you.

I always do..

[Trapper Gus]

In place of equality, Orbán advocates what he calls “illiberal democracy” or “Christian democracy.” “Christian democracy is, by definition, not liberal,” he said in July 2018; “it is, if you like, illiberal. And we can specifically say this in connection with a few important issues—say, three great issues. Liberal democracy is in favor of multiculturalism, while Christian democracy gives priority to Christian culture; this is an illiberal concept. Liberal democracy is pro-immigration, while Christian democracy is anti-immigration; this is again a genuinely illiberal concept. And liberal democracy sides with adaptable family models, while Christian democracy rests on the foundations of the Christian family model; once more, this is an illiberal concept.”

...

Once you give up the principle of equality, you have given up the whole game. You have admitted the principle that people are unequal, and that some people are better than others. Once you have replaced the principle of equality with the idea that humans are unequal, you have stamped your approval on the idea of rulers and subjects. At that point, all you can do is to hope that no one in power decides that you belong in the lesser group.

In 1858, Abraham Lincoln, then a candidate for the Senate, warned that arguments limiting American equality to white men and excluding black Americans were the same arguments “that kings have made for enslaving the people in all ages of the world…. Turn in whatever way you will—whether it come from the mouth of a King, an excuse for enslaving the people of his country, or from the mouth of men of one race as a reason for enslaving the men of another race, it is all the same old serpent.”

Either people—men, in his day—were equal, or they were not. Lincoln went on: “I should like to know if taking this old Declaration of Independence, which declares that all men are equal upon principle and making exceptions to it…where will it stop?”

https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/march-10-2023

Adding this in as "another "leader" appealing to the "religious" to gain power.

Some good stuff, and some bad stuff, in this thread.

IMO "religion" isn't the casue of the evil.  It is used by evil people to control others to do evil things, but if it were not "religion" it would be some other form of mob phycology.

[Trapper Gus]

https://apnews.com/article/vatican-larche-catholic-abuse-disabilities-vanier-philippe-cb07166b8eda78a8a446a1c7a22008cb?utm_source=homepage&utm_medium=TopNews&utm_campaign=position_05

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