Trial Balloon for a Coup?

by **Floyd Robertson** 2017-01-30, 10:26

Well, this is, ummm, an interesting take.

I've never heard of the author, but he seems to have put a lot of thought into it.

Trial Balloon for a Coup?

Combining all of these facts, we have a fairly clear picture in play.

1. Trump was, indeed, perfectly honest during the campaign; he intends to do everything he said, and more. This should not be reassuring to you.

2. The regime’s main organizational goal right now is to transfer all effective power to a tight inner circle, eliminating any possible checks from either the Federal bureaucracy, Congress, or the Courts. Departments are being reorganized or purged to effect this.

3. The inner circle is actively probing the means by which they can seize unchallenged power; yesterday’s moves should be read as the first part of that.

4. The aims of crushing various groups — Muslims, Latinos, the black and trans communities, academics, the press — are very much primary aims of the regime, and are likely to be acted on with much greater speed than was earlier suspected. The secondary aim of personal enrichment is also very much in play, and clever people will find ways to play these two goals off each other.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2017-01-30, 10:29

I'm just thankful we didn't elect that corrupt woman with an email account.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2017-01-30, 10:34

I try to bury my head in the sand about this shit but it does not sound good. Thanks, deplorables. Morans.

by Guest 2017-01-30, 10:48

Floyd Robertson wrote:Well, this is, ummm, an interesting take.

I've never heard of the author, but he seems to have put a lot of thought into it.

Trial Balloon for a Coup?

Combining all of these facts, we have a fairly clear picture in play.

1. Trump was, indeed, perfectly honest during the campaign; he intends to do everything he said, and more. This should not be reassuring to you.

2. The regime’s main organizational goal right now is to transfer all effective power to a tight inner circle, eliminating any possible checks from either the Federal bureaucracy, Congress, or the Courts. Departments are being reorganized or purged to effect this.

3. The inner circle is actively probing the means by which they can seize unchallenged power; yesterday’s moves should be read as the first part of that.

4. The aims of crushing various groups — Muslims, Latinos, the black and trans communities, academics, the press — are very much primary aims of the regime, and are likely to be acted on with much greater speed than was earlier suspected. The secondary aim of personal enrichment is also very much in play, and clever people will find ways to play these two goals off each other.

Yep, 1 more executive order than Obama would lead me to this conclusion too.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2017-01-30, 10:52

LooseGoose wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:Well, this is, ummm, an interesting take.

I've never heard of the author, but he seems to have put a lot of thought into it.

Trial Balloon for a Coup?

Yep, 1 more executive order than Obama would lead me to this conclusion too.

but.. but.. OBAMA!!

Trial Balloon for a Coup? 502811600

by **GRR Spartan** 2017-01-30, 11:08

There was some deft sleight of hand with the timing of executive orders.

The whole world and media was covering the banned nations / immigration story and Trump got Breitbart Executive Chairman and White House Chief Strategist Bannon named to the National Security Council. The ride is going to get wilder.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/29/us/stephen-bannon-donald-trump-national-security-council.html?_r=0

PS
Goose, Obama had Axelrod sit in on some meetings. Alexrod never took the place of career military and career government experts.

by **Floyd Robertson** 2017-01-30, 11:18

GRR Spartan wrote:There was some deft sleight of hand with the timing of executive orders.

The whole world and media was covering the banned nations / immigration story and Trump got Breitbart Executive Chairman and White House Chief Strategist Bannon named to the National Security Council. The ride is going to get wilder.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/29/us/stephen-bannon-donald-trump-national-security-council.html?_r=0

PS
Goose, Obama had Axelrod sit in on some meetings. Alexrod never took the place of career military and career government experts.

Yeah, Bannon's elevation and downgrading the Joint Chief chairman and DNI is pretty disconcerting.

by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2017-01-30, 11:19

Drain the swamp baby!

by **DWags** 2017-01-30, 13:03

Trumps executive orders so far:

Beginning the process of overturning the Affordable Care Act, commonly known as Obamacare;
Expediting environmental reviews and approvals for high-profile infrastructure projects;
Start work on the planning and eventual construction of a 1,900-mile long wall at the southern border with Mexico; add 5,000 new border protection officers;
Address additional immigration issues, including the elimination of federal funds for "sanctuary cities" which refuse to hand over or detain undocumented immigrants. Order also calls for hiring of 10,000 additional immigration officers.
Launch a review of military assets to determine equipment and traiing upgrades, address future threats.
Allow for increased vetting of refugees from seven predominately Muslim countries.

Obama's executive orders so first week in office:

Regulations regarding the release of presidential records;
Ban on gifts from lobbyists and setting limits for former employees related to lobbying activities;
Ensured lawful interrogation of foreign detainees;
Order closure of Guantanamo Bay detention center;
Ordered review of policies related to treatment of foreign detainees.

One fo those guys seem to be spending money more freely than the other did.

by Guest 2017-01-30, 13:36

DWags wrote:Trumps executive orders so far:

Beginning the process of overturning the Affordable Care Act, commonly known as Obamacare;
Expediting environmental reviews and approvals for high-profile infrastructure projects;
Start work on the planning and eventual construction of a 1,900-mile long wall at the southern border with Mexico; add 5,000 new border protection officers;
Address additional immigration issues, including the elimination of federal funds for "sanctuary cities" which refuse to hand over or detain undocumented immigrants. Order also calls for hiring of 10,000 additional immigration officers.
Launch a review of military assets to determine equipment and traiing upgrades, address future threats.
Allow for increased vetting of refugees from seven predominately Muslim countries.

Obama's executive orders so first week in office:

Regulations regarding the release of presidential records;
Ban on gifts from lobbyists and setting limits for former employees related to lobbying activities;
Ensured lawful interrogation of foreign detainees;
Order closure of Guantanamo Bay detention center;
Ordered review of policies related to treatment of foreign detainees.

One fo those guys seem to be spending money more freely than the other did.

Keeping promises he ran on, that's normally thought of to be a good thing in a politician.

by Guest 2017-01-30, 13:37

GRR Spartan wrote:There was some deft sleight of hand with the timing of executive orders.

The whole world and media was covering the banned nations / immigration story and Trump got Breitbart Executive Chairman and White House Chief Strategist Bannon named to the National Security Council. The ride is going to get wilder.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/29/us/stephen-bannon-donald-trump-national-security-council.html?_r=0

PS
Goose, Obama had Axelrod sit in on some meetings. Alexrod never took the place of career military and career government experts.

Yep. So does that limit what any other President can do. Tell me about Valerie Jarrett and Iran? Did you see they just launched a missile that violated the recent treaty? But I guess no one is worried about them any more.

by **InTenSity** 2017-01-30, 13:59

Bannon is fucking scary, right wing neo nazi. He's publicly claimed that he wants to bring the whole system down. Why do you get rid of the military and intelligence officers on a security council in order to bring in a radical right wing individual with no experience?

by **xsanguine** 2017-01-30, 14:05

I don't know anything about this Bannon character but what's the neo-nazi angle? I was talking to a relative this weekend who referred to him as a white nationalist. I've done some googling but can't find anything specific that supports this (all the normal characters make sure to mention this but I can't find anything specific). What's up with this cat?

by **InTenSity** 2017-01-30, 14:11

Bannon wrote:"Darkness is good," says Bannon, who amid the suits surrounding him at Trump Tower, looks like a graduate student in his T-shirt, open button-down and tatty blue blazer — albeit a 62-year-old graduate student. "Dick Cheney. Darth Vader. Satan. That's power. It only helps us when they" — I believe by "they" he means liberals and the media, already promoting calls for his ouster — "get it wrong. When they're blind to who we are and what we're doing."

by **xsanguine** 2017-01-30, 14:14

Yeah, no, from the little I've seen on the news I'm not a fan of him. It seems like this team, lead by him, has a very specific vision and is willing to try forcing it on the country, bypassing the rules and procedures designed to prevent a complete takeover.

But I'm really just zeroing in on the white nationalist claims.

by **InTenSity** 2017-01-30, 14:17

xsanguine wrote:Yeah, no, from the little I've seen on the news I'm not a fan of him. It seems like this team, lead by him, has a very specific vision and is willing to try forcing it on the country, bypassing the rules and procedures designed to prevent a complete takeover.

But I'm really just zeroing in on the white nationalist claims.

The website he ran was a white nationalist site. The Alt-Right was born from it.

I don't watch a lot of news, but I did watch some propaganda from CNN this weekend. Slowly some republicans are starting to distance themselves from this administration. My wife is supposed to go back to the Philippines in a couple of weeks, and I'm worried about her coming back, a little bit.

by **xsanguine** 2017-01-30, 14:26

InTenSity wrote:
xsanguine wrote:Yeah, no, from the little I've seen on the news I'm not a fan of him. It seems like this team, lead by him, has a very specific vision and is willing to try forcing it on the country, bypassing the rules and procedures designed to prevent a complete takeover.

But I'm really just zeroing in on the white nationalist claims.
The website he ran was a white nationalist site. The Alt-Right was born from it.

I don't watch a lot of news, but I did watch some propaganda from CNN this weekend. Slowly some republicans are starting to distance themselves from this administration. My wife is supposed to go back to the Philippines in a couple of weeks, and I'm worried about her coming back, a little bit.

I've pulled up Breitbart from time to time over the past few years and I never got that impression, not anything like when you pull up Stormfront or something like that. It isn't a go to site, by any means, so it's possible I missed articles/stories, etc. I tried looking that up too and there's nothing specific about that, either. Just a circular argument... Bannon is a racist because he ran Breitbart, Breitbart is a white nationalist site because it served the alt-right... then it comes back to Bannon or stops. I just went to Breitbart again to see and I can tell it's a right leaning site, definitely. It's like a ghost or something, though...

I think she'll be okay, the travel ban area is about 4,500 miles from the Phillipines. Safe travels to her, regardless, though. We're living in some interesting times, which is never a good thing for anybody except future historians.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2017-01-30, 14:33

Goose is not a republican.

by **GRR Spartan** 2017-01-30, 14:44

More dancing by Goose defending Trump.

This isn't "FAKE NEWS".

Neither Valerie Jarret nor David Alexrod ever participated in NSC meetings. They were both invited to observe (not participate) in less than a dozen (by some accounts less than 6each and other accounts less than 6 total between the two) over 8 years.

Now if you want to justify displacing the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs with Trump's strategic political advisor it seems we have significantly different views of what is good for the US as a country.

Had President Obama, President GW Bush, President Wm.Clinton, President GHW Bush or Reagan tried that gambit the press and voters would be justified in questioning their competence to hold that office.

Notice you support the immigration order. Yet you seem to have forgotten that Saudi Arabia and the UAE have been the origin for terrorist volunteers in Syria, Libya and were among those who flew the planes into the World Trade Center Towers and The Pentegon.

Is that because you are forgetful, thought that's FAKE NEWS or don't think Trump's business interests in those countries were a consideration?

Ever read Sinclair Lewis' It Can't Happen Here?

I don't know if you favor authoritarian government or one party rule, are an isolationist or still cling to the belief eventually someone or group will step in. At the rate Trump is going after 9-10 days, the US will be on par with Russia seeing China being viewed as the world's lead dog rather than being or sharing that status with them sooner than later.

Dangerous territory while you and others including many elected officials keep making excuses.

by **xsanguine** 2017-01-30, 15:13

Like this article from CBS...
Quotes from Steve Bannon, Trump's new White House chief strategist

They start with their premise that this is an article to explain why Steve Bannon is a racist white nationalist through his own words...

And then they don't post anything racist or indicative of a white nationalist.

But I'm watching CBS News right now and in each interview they have with their correspondents about Steve Bannon they make sure to describe him as a white nationalist or "allegedly" or "has been described as..." and never back that up. I don't care for the guy so I don't care either way... but the way these kinds of allegations are thrown around the last few years that turn out to be completely incorrect... it piques my interest.

by **Nordic** 2017-01-30, 16:32

Floyd Robertson wrote:Well, this is, ummm, an interesting take.

I've never heard of the author, but he seems to have put a lot of thought into it.

Trial Balloon for a Coup?

Combining all of these facts, we have a fairly clear picture in play.

1. Trump was, indeed, perfectly honest during the campaign; he intends to do everything he said, and more. This should not be reassuring to you.

2. The regime’s main organizational goal right now is to transfer all effective power to a tight inner circle, eliminating any possible checks from either the Federal bureaucracy, Congress, or the Courts. Departments are being reorganized or purged to effect this.

3. The inner circle is actively probing the means by which they can seize unchallenged power; yesterday’s moves should be read as the first part of that.

4. The aims of crushing various groups — Muslims, Latinos, the black and trans communities, academics, the press — are very much primary aims of the regime, and are likely to be acted on with much greater speed than was earlier suspected. The secondary aim of personal enrichment is also very much in play, and clever people will find ways to play these two goals off each other.

Paging Antineoplastons...

by **I.B. Fine** 2017-01-30, 16:38

xsanguine wrote:Like this article from CBS...
Quotes from Steve Bannon, Trump's new White House chief strategist

They start with their premise that this is an article to explain why Steve Bannon is a racist white nationalist through his own words...

And then they don't post anything racist or indicative of a white nationalist.

But I'm watching CBS News right now and in each interview they have with their correspondents about Steve Bannon they make sure to describe him as a white nationalist or "allegedly" or "has been described as..." and never back that up. I don't care for the guy so I don't care either way... but the way these kinds of allegations are thrown around the last few years that turn out to be completely incorrect... it piques my interest.

You're thinking too hard, by now I'm sure enough people have said it so it has to be true.

by **xsanguine** 2017-01-30, 19:41

I.B. Fine wrote:
xsanguine wrote:Like this article from CBS...
Quotes from Steve Bannon, Trump's new White House chief strategist

They start with their premise that this is an article to explain why Steve Bannon is a racist white nationalist through his own words...

And then they don't post anything racist or indicative of a white nationalist.

But I'm watching CBS News right now and in each interview they have with their correspondents about Steve Bannon they make sure to describe him as a white nationalist or "allegedly" or "has been described as..." and never back that up. I don't care for the guy so I don't care either way... but the way these kinds of allegations are thrown around the last few years that turn out to be completely incorrect... it piques my interest.
You're thinking too hard, by now I'm sure enough people have said it so it has to be true.

That's what it seems like. And then from there Donald Trump is a racist because Steve Bannon is on his team. I mean, if we're playing that kind of degrees of separation game everyone in the country is a racist, bigoted, sexist, rape/murder enabler.

by **I.B. Fine** 2017-01-30, 19:43

xsanguine wrote:
I.B. Fine wrote:
You're thinking too hard, by now I'm sure enough people have said it so it has to be true.

That's what it seems like. And then from there Donald Trump is a racist because Steve Bannon is on his team. I mean, if we're playing that kind of degrees of separation game everyone in the country is a racist, bigoted, sexist, rape/murder enabler.

How dare you mention the T word and the B word in the same post! You racist, bigoted sexist raper! I'm soooo offended.

by **xsanguine** 2017-01-30, 19:49

We'll have to start saying the T word and the B word...

That concept annoys me. The intent is the same, just say the goddamn word. What's the difference?

by **DWags** 2017-01-30, 19:55

Interesting take from a moderate history professor from boston college

Don't just get mad...pay attention.
Here is an interesting perspective on the notion of this weekend's "shock event" from Boston College professor of American History, Heather Cox Richardson: she is writing from the position of a moderate (albeit one who has published several books on the history of the Republican party).
"There is an important non-partisan point to make today.
What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is creating what is known as a "shock event." Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society into chaos. People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault line that those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they alone know how to restore order. When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call them enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those responsible for the shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, a goal they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has been distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no longer concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides along the partisan lines established by the shock event.
Last night's Executive Order has all the hallmarks of a shock event. It was not reviewed by any governmental agencies or lawyers before it was released, and counterterrorism experts insist they did not ask for it. People charged with enforcing it got no instructions about how to do so. Courts immediately have declared parts of it unconstitutional, but border police in some airports are refusing to stop enforcing it.
It is designed explicitly to divide people who might otherwise come together so they cannot stand against something its authors think they won't like. I don't know what Bannon is up to-- although I have some guesses-- but because I know Bannon's ideas well, I am positive that there is not a single person whom I consider a friend on either side of the aisle-- and my friends range pretty widely-- who will benefit from whatever it is. If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame each other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country will have been tricked into accepting their real goal.
But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be used positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. We could just as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the people who sparked the event. A successful shock event depends on speed and chaos because it requires knee-jerk reactions so that people divide along established lines. This, for example, is how Confederate leaders railroaded the initial southern states out of the Union. If people realize they are being played, though, they can reach across old lines and reorganize to challenge the leaders who are pulling the strings. This was Lincoln's strategy when he joined together Whigs, Democrats, Free-Soilers, anti-Nebraska voters, and nativists into the new Republican Party to stand against the Slave Power. Five years before, such a coalition would have been unimaginable. Members of those groups agreed on very little other than that they wanted all Americans to have equal economic opportunity. Once they began to work together to promote a fair economic system, though, they found much common ground. They ended up rededicating the nation to a "government of the people, by the people, and for the people."
Confederate leaders and Lincoln both knew about the political potential of a shock event. As we are in the midst of one, it seems worth noting that Lincoln seemed to have the better idea about how to use it. *if you wan to repost, copy/paste. don't share*

by **GRR Spartan** 2017-01-30, 20:47

Nailed it DWags.

I won't get sucked into the racism angle some are trying to paint.

A lot of Americans including myself think it's reckless to replace the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs with a political strategist. and remove the Director of National Intelligence from the National Security Council with the same executive order.

The NSC has to make decisions that are good for the country. Not a decision that will be advantageous for the next election cycle or next news cycle.

Some think Bannon wants to create a parallel intelligence unit to do what the long time CIA and NSA employees won't do.

by **xsanguine** 2017-01-30, 20:52

Any opportunity there was for "people coming together" was squandered before Trump even became a possibility.

by Guest 2017-01-30, 20:55

LMAO - a "moderate" by what fruitcake's definition?? She could be in here writing Bobby's headlines for him.

A flaming liberal that regularly SHREDS the Republican Party/Conservatives for the liberal rag Salon Magazine.

Come on Wags, be serious if you're going to try and fool people.

Her stories at Salon from the "moderate":

HEATHER COX RICHARDSON

Donald Trump’s deadly strategy: His attack on government has led to riots before, and could again

This is how the GOP imploded: The real story behind the conservative crack-up, and the creation of Donald Trump

David Brooks has lost all control: This is how the far right stole the GOP — and they are not giving it back

Ronald Reagan made it all worse: How Republicans — the real party with their hands out — convinced white America that government was out to get them

Extremism ends in civil war: Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, and a right-wing insurgency the GOP can no longer control

GOP’s hell-bent on tearing us apart: A decades-long strategy to win by divisiveness now leads to President Donald Trump

Ted Cruz wants to be king: Make no mistake, the GOP extremists’ real goal is absolute control

They really are the party of stupid: The real story behind Scott Walker’s war on higher education

When the Republicans went insane: Newt Gingrich, Fox News, Grover Norquist and the roots of today’s shameful intransigence

by Guest 2017-01-30, 20:56

GRR Spartan wrote:Nailed it DWags.

I won't get sucked into the racism angle some are trying to paint.

A lot of Americans including myself think it's reckless to replace the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs with a political strategist.

The NSC has to make decisions that are good for the country. Not a decision that will be advantageous for the next election cycle or next news cycle.

lol yeah Wags nailed it. He lied and she lied and you swallowed it.

by **DWags** 2017-01-30, 22:59

LooseGoose wrote:LMAO - a "moderate" by what fruitcake's definition?? She could be in here writing Bobby's headlines for him.

A flaming liberal that regularly SHREDS the Republican Party/Conservatives for the liberal rag Salon Magazine.

Come on Wags, be serious if you're going to try and fool people.

Her stories at Salon from the "moderate":

HEATHER COX RICHARDSON

Donald Trump’s deadly strategy: His attack on government has led to riots before, and could again

This is how the GOP imploded: The real story behind the conservative crack-up, and the creation of Donald Trump

David Brooks has lost all control: This is how the far right stole the GOP — and they are not giving it back

Ronald Reagan made it all worse: How Republicans — the real party with their hands out — convinced white America that government was out to get them

Extremism ends in civil war: Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, and a right-wing insurgency the GOP can no longer control

GOP’s hell-bent on tearing us apart: A decades-long strategy to win by divisiveness now leads to President Donald Trump

Ted Cruz wants to be king: Make no mistake, the GOP extremists’ real goal is absolute control

They really are the party of stupid: The real story behind Scott Walker’s war on higher education

When the Republicans went insane: Newt Gingrich, Fox News, Grover Norquist and the roots of today’s shameful intransigence

Just copied and pasted. First time I read what she's written. If she's a leftist I'm not shocked. Most people of letters are. Point stands. Interesting read.

by **GRR Spartan** 2017-01-30, 23:18

Surprised Goose didn't scream Fake News!!!

For a guy who didn't like Trump he spends a lot of time making excuses.

by Guest 2017-01-31, 00:09

GRR Spartan wrote:Surprised Goose didn't scream Fake News!!!

For a guy who didn't like Trump he spends a lot of time making excuses.

So now it's an excuse to point out facts? ok

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