Welcome to the conclusion of the education war.

ALEC has its money grubbing hand in the pot now. Your tax dollars for private schools.

DeVos is Secretary of Education

I'm so sad for our country. The damage that's going to be done over the next couple of years, is going to take decades to repair, if its ever repaired. I'm assuming since my son has a disability, we're basically on our own now.

InTenSity wrote:I'm so sad for our country. The damage that's going to be done over the next couple of years, is going to take decades to repair, if its ever repaired. I'm assuming since my son has a disability, we're basically on our own now.

unfortunately, you're probably right. I wish I had some more comforting words.

selfishly, we're very thankful that our daughter is almost finished with one of the better public schools in the state. I wish all the kids younger than her would've been afforded the same opportunities she's had.

Drain the swamp lol. Sackless R's won't stand up to the President and turn this bitch down. All because they want a favor in return.

Meet the new boss..... Same as the old boss.

kingstonlake wrote:Drain the swamp lol. Sackless R's won't stand up to the President and turn this bitch down. All because they want a favor in return.

Meet the new boss..... Same as the old boss.

while it's unfortunate, you can't expect a party that thrives on uneducated masses to be interested in promoting education.

Being reported that Rubio got a $100k donation to confirm. I'm going to dip whatever I can to get him voted out of office in Florida.

Cory Booker used to love DeVos and her organization.

InTenSity wrote:Being reported that Rubio got a $100k donation to confirm. I'm going to dip whatever I can to get him voted out of office in Florida.

Not totally fake news but it is in the context you're using.

Dating back 2010 the entire DeVos family has given Rubio about $98,000.   For his Senate/Presidential races.

That's obviously not a $100,000 payoff to confirm her.

And of course as we're talking $$ I'm sure this had nothing to do with the Dems voting against DeVos.  We know their motives are pure and could never be swayed by donations, right??

NEA donations by party since 1990


Open Secrets

InTenSity wrote:I'm so sad for our country. The damage that's going to be done over the next couple of years, is going to take decades to repair, if its ever repaired. I'm assuming since my son has a disability, we're basically on our own now.

I actually only came on this board because I thought of you today.  I wish I also had something better to say, only that with the type of parents you are, it will be fine.  

I wouldn't be angry about money donated and who got what.  This board brings out the worst in people and serious education debates turn into petty shit like that.  All politicians take money because they need to.  

What guys like Goose will do is  say "but they did it too" and then we lose track of what has just happened here.  For whatever reason Trump and the republicans can come up with, they have just put the most unqualified person in charge of something she has no business being in charge of.  She didn't know ADA, she wasn't sure about protecting those with disabilities with federal law, she didn't know about the difference between growth and proficiency in testing kids.  The new head of the DOE just plagerized some answers to questions by the senators for god's sake.   

To me, it's always been about qualifications.  On what grounds would anyone be qualified with her background?  It's beyond crazy.  

White Boy Hatcher asked in a thread he started what is going to be really different in America because Trump was elected.  I said it was without doubtpublic education.   It's going to be gone in 10 years as we know it.  Good or Bad, I'll let you guys debate that, but it will be gone.  What I will find interesting is what will become of high school athletics?  Will there be a governing body controlling any of them?   Will it hurt or help college athletics?  It's going to be crazy.
Most states and local schools over 90% of the education funding comes from a combination of local tax base and state funding. So the K-12 strings she can pull are relatively short (even if I know they are going to screw kids in Special Education, and that is going to hurt, again, I thought of you and came over here.)

Anyway, I don't want to exchange shit on this board anymore.  As I've said, lost respect for too many people who are probably better guys than me.  I did know my business back in the day, so I figured this would be a topic here.   Sorry it's long.  We've seen the beginning of the end of the type of America we grew up in.   As far as public education.  Can't speak to the other shit under Trump, but I knew education would change dramatically.

Absolutely disgusting that a country this great could appoint someone so incompetent in such an important position.

Get ready for the fight - we are not going to allow you to reduce access to education or to deny the truths of science in our schools. You might win some minor shit, but your crazy beliefs about the world will never take root in this great country.

LooseGoose wrote:

InTenSity wrote:Being reported that Rubio got a $100k donation to confirm. I'm going to dip whatever I can to get him voted out of office in Florida.

Not totally fake news but it is in the context you're using.

Dating back 2010 the entire DeVos family has given Rubio about $98,000.   For his Senate/Presidential races.

That's obviously not a $100,000 payoff to confirm her.

Goose would like you guys to know that.. ummm yeah... Obama.

The federal DOE was only formed‎ on ‎October 17, 1979; 37 years ago. Somehow state and local school boards got by without it for a long time, and I'm confident they could do so again, probably better, hopefully that's Trump's goal.

The missing link in education that is so often overlooked is parental involvement, you have it, schools do well, you don't, doesn't matter what you do, education will fail. No federal mandate or more money is going to change that fact.

Im relly happy tht Devos was cunfirmed. She'l du a grate job.

Cym Jim wrote:Absolutely disgusting that a country this great could appoint someone so incompetent in such an important position.

Get ready for the fight - we are not going to allow you to reduce access to education or to deny the truths of science in our schools. You might win some minor shit, but your crazy beliefs about the world will never take root in this great country.

Yes, amazing. Since the day the Feds stuck their noses into education test scores and achievement has been on an unbroken downward trend. We should fight tooth and nail to continue that great thing.

Do you people ever actually look at results when you say these things?

The funniest part are the Libs on twitter saying they need to explore alternatives to public education now that DeVos is going to wreck it.......you stupid ninnies....supposedly she's going to wreck it by allowing....more alternatives.

People are lemmings and you see it on here and on Twitter. I have no idea, nor a ton of faith that DeVos will do well. But again, I'm willing to give her a chance and she sure as hell will have to work hard to be worse than her failed predecessors Rep and Dem.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:Im relly happy tht Devos was cunfirmed. She'l du a grate job.

What a great example. Bob emulating Blanch. Bob educated BEFORE a DOE existed, Blanch educated AFTER creation.

Yep, great improvement.

My God.....reading this you can imagine the carnage in our education system.

5 Great Reforms Betsy DeVos Will Bring to the Department of Education

Terrible, terrible idea - to let those idiot local yokels make decisions.

1. Decentralize education, abolish Common Core.
When asked what DeVos will actually do at the Department of Education, Friends of Betsy DeVos spokesman Ed Patru told PJ Media, "I think you'll see a concerted effort to return decision-making back to states."

More choice?   OMG - we know that's an awful concept.

3. School choice.
DeVos has promised to revolutionize education in concrete ways, through school vouchers and charter schools. She has supported these programs in order to deliver "top-notch education for all students, regardless of their location or socioeconomic level.

Who said this?   That witch DeVos?   Nope - Liberal hero Elizabeth Warren.  Of course that was before the NEA bought her.

An all-voucher or all-school choice system would be a shock to the educational system, but the shake out might be just what the system needs.

I.B. Fine wrote:The federal DOE was only formed‎ on ‎October 17, 1979; 37 years ago. Somehow state and local school boards got by without it for a long time, and I'm confident they could do so again, probably better, hopefully that's Trump's goal.
.

Sorry, but besides many parents with students who have disabilities rightfully looking at what she said during the hearings and her record of not accepting them in at her charters even though there are "blind draws" nudge nudge wink wink, there are other concerns. Public vouchers to schools worth 100's of millions can, (rightfully so) be used for charters, but again, the federal government has not enforced the same oversight on these charter schools. There is, at least in my area, rampant misuse of public money. My issue is that she has a whole lot of friends who will be in charge of charter schools that will benefit form voucher money. Is her purse that big? Nah, it won't be much of an effect on that.

College students, however, are currently holding 1.4 trillion in student debt. Does she have any experience with that or any sympathy with kids who have parents who make too much to qualify for financial aid, but not enough to pay 30K a year for college? Who knows.

But once again, I hope to steer this debate to what guys like Intensity might have worries about. Everything aside, on what credentials did she get appointed? I'm heart since for parents of students with disabilities, maybe however, she will become more aware of that. But what other qualifications does she have to run this office? I'm an idiot, but did get an education in policy, administration and finances for schools. I don't use my masters for it anymore, but I have somewhat of an idea. I really believe I have more qualifications than she does, and I'd not vote for myself to be the Sec of Ed. I just don't think this was a good choice. Pick a conservative, extoll the possibilities of charters, but put in place someone with a better background.

LooseGoose wrote:

Cym Jim wrote:Absolutely disgusting that a country this great could appoint someone so incompetent in such an important position.

Get ready for the fight - we are not going to allow you to reduce access to education or to deny the truths of science in our schools. You might win some minor shit, but your crazy beliefs about the world will never take root in this great country.

Yes, amazing. Since the day the Feds stuck their noses into education test scores and achievement has been on an unbroken downward trend. We should fight tooth and nail to continue that great thing.

Do you people ever actually look at results when you say these things?

Goose? When you took the ACT, who took it from your high school? Did 100% of the kids take it? (Now the SAT in Michigan)

I.B. Fine wrote:The federal DOE was only formed‎ on ‎October 17, 1979; 37 years ago. Somehow state and local school boards got by without it for a long time, and I'm confident they could do so again, probably better, hopefully that's Trump's goal.

The missing link in education that is so often overlooked is parental involvement, you have it, schools do well, you don't, doesn't matter what you do, education will fail. No federal mandate or more money is going to change that fact.

Got along fine would be a dependent on where you went to school and if you or your child had learning disabilities of physical disabilities.

Prior to the DOE students with dsabilities, regardless of the degree of severity were parked in one or two classrooms and warehoused until they were 16-18 in some disctricts and some states.

What Betsy DeVos wants is a national policy like the ones she pushed for and got by financing GOP legislative campaigns in MI. Charter schools receiving public monies without requiring the same financial reporting required of public schools and as dWags alluded to beng able to use whats left of the publc schools to be used as special education hubs. The latter because there is no profit in having special education students as the laws stand today.

Who knows what's next? With what looks to be a pliable Congress, we may have new laws that put all the current rules regarding special education pushed aside and turning those decisions back to the state.

WUOM interviewed a Detroit Osborn HS parent this week. Osborn is on the state list to close for poor performance. The state sent her a list of other HS to consider including schools in Ann Arbor.

InTenSity wrote:I'm so sad for our country. The damage that's going to be done over the next couple of years, is going to take decades to repair, if its ever repaired. I'm assuming since my son has a disability, we're basically on our own now.

InTenSity, what are the options for your boy currently in Florida?  I'm under the impression that Florida has a pretty substantial voucher program, including for disabled kids.  My daughter is in private school.  At her previous school (also private), the state would pay about $12K per year for disabled kids.  Considering tuition for non-disabled kids was $6-$7K per year, the school loved to get disabled kids (never mind that the school was too greedy to hire appropriate teachers for the disabled kids, but that's a whole other issue....like I said that was her previous school, because they were dumbfucks in general there....best decision we ever made was to change schools).  By comparison, low-income families can get vouchers worth about $5K, and would have to pay the difference.  Of course, that's just my personal anecdotal information, but we don't qualify for vouchers (though the info comes from the parents of one of my daughter's good friends who has a learning disability, so I'm assuming it's fairly accurate).

I'm not a fan of DeVos by any means, but considering that Florida has vouchers and charter schools, and I believe one of her things was giving more education power back to the states, then I wouldn't think that much would change here (for better or worse).

I don't pretend to know the details, though, so if I'd welcome any corrections on what I said.  And I also would think that the challenges in finding education for your boy would be quite a bit different than someone with only a learning disability, so maybe it's a whole other ball game that you'll be entering into.

GRR Spartan wrote:

I.B. Fine wrote:The federal DOE was only formed‎ on ‎October 17, 1979; 37 years ago. Somehow state and local school boards got by without it for a long time, and I'm confident they could do so again, probably better, hopefully that's Trump's goal.

The missing link in education that is so often overlooked is parental involvement, you have it, schools do well, you don't, doesn't matter what you do, education will fail. No federal mandate or more money is going to change that fact.

Got along fine would be a dependent on where you went to school and if you or your child had learning disabilities of physical disabilities.

Prior to the DOE students with dsabilities, regardless of the degree of severity were parked in one or two classrooms and warehoused until they were 16-18 in some disctricts and some states.

What Betsy DeVos wants is a national policy like the ones she pushed for and got by financing GOP legislative campaigns in MI. Charter schools receiving public monies without requiring the same financial reporting required of public schools and as dWags alluded to beng able to use whats left of the publc schools to be used as special education hubs. The latter because there is no profit in having special education students as the laws stand today.

Who knows what's next? With what looks to be a pliable Congress, we may have new laws that put all the current rules regarding special education pushed aside and turning those decisions back to the state.

WUOM interviewed a Detroit Osborn HS parent this week. Osborn is on the state list to close for poor performance. The state sent her a list of other HS to consider including schools in Ann Arbor.

I think all of us here can agree that closing one certain school in Ann Arbor (and burning it completely to the ground), would be a huge step forward for the betterment of the State of Michigan, the country, and the world.

Quality deflection from a serious conversation.

I see what DWags means.

GRR Spartan wrote:Quality deflection from a serious conversation.

I see what DWags means.

If you're responding to me, get a sense of humor fergodsakes.

If not, carry on.

LOL at the thought of Betsy DeVos having the best interest of our students in mind. Her "restructuring" of education will be nothing more than a corporate handout disguised with popular catch phrases like "shifting power to the states" and "expanding choices".

DWags wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Yes, amazing. Since the day the Feds stuck their noses into education test scores and achievement has been on an unbroken downward trend. We should fight tooth and nail to continue that great thing.

Do you people ever actually look at results when you say these things?

Goose? When you took the ACT, who took it from your high school? Did 100% of the kids take it? (Now the SAT in Michigan)

When I took the ACT it was optional and done on a Saturday morning. To my recollection I'd say there were 100 or so people there taking it. It was done in the cafeteria of my HS, our class size was 202 so roughly 50%. I had to to take the SAT for a couple of the schools I applied to and my HS didn't offer it so I ended up driving 50 miles to take it on another Saturday.

didn't take the ACT.. took the SAT twice. I was hungover the first time.. was gonna take it a third time but got lost on the way.

LooseGoose wrote:

DWags wrote:

Goose? When you took the ACT, who took it from your high school? Did 100% of the kids take it? (Now the SAT in Michigan)

When I took the ACT it was optional and done on a Saturday morning. To my recollection I'd say there were 100 or so people there taking it. It was done in the cafeteria of my HS, our class size was 202 so roughly 50%. I had to to take the SAT for a couple of the schools I applied to and my HS didn't offer it so I ended up driving 50 miles to take it on another Saturday.

Here's my point. By rule, everybody has to take the test. If you're not over 95% or some such number, you are "marked down" by the power gumba's and your tests can be "Invalid" as far as using them to score your school in it's place on the list of top to bottoms in your state.

If when we took the tests only th ecollege bound kids took them, and now they're making everyone take them, do you think the scores would go up or down?

Think about the kids who didn't take it back then. The mechanics, the carpenters, the kids who were just plain fucked up, the culinary kids, the special needs kids. They all missed those days of taking the ACT. Now, your school has to make them take it. Trust me, I've administered the ACT. Those kids, who, many will be very productive as plumbers carpenters and such, bubble that shit in like a christmas tree, put their head down and sleep. yet, they're scored.

It's not an even playing field. IF you want to discuss the merits of charter schools, and what their promise could be (even if they're not doing it now) I'd be glad to. However, we all need to stop using the fact that ACT scores are going down. Not apples to apples. and it will never show an upward tragectory overall because we will always have those kids who just aren't intersted in college. And that's fine. They will produce in America.

Miami wrote:InTenSity, what are the options for your boy currently in Florida? I'm under the impression that Florida has a pretty substantial voucher program, including for disabled kids. My daughter is in private school. At her previous school (also private), the state would pay about $12K per year for disabled kids. Considering tuition for non-disabled kids was $6-$7K per year, the school loved to get disabled kids (never mind that the school was too greedy to hire appropriate teachers for the disabled kids, but that's a whole other issue....like I said that was her previous school, because they were dumbfucks in general there....best decision we ever made was to change schools). By comparison, low-income families can get vouchers worth about $5K, and would have to pay the difference. Of course, that's just my personal anecdotal information, but we don't qualify for vouchers (though the info comes from the parents of one of my daughter's good friends who has a learning disability, so I'm assuming it's fairly accurate).

We're just now starting to see what's out there. A lot of it depends on what's out there. I think we're somewhat disadvantaged because neither of us are from the area. We're trying to be involved in the DSAOM (Miami Down Association), and get information that way, but they aren't as big as the one in Broward, and more activities are geared towards older kids. Miami does have a scholarship, called the McKay scholarship and we'll be learning about that very soon. The issue is that my salary and my wife's salary is good enough for right now, but we can't afford private schools. Nor do I think our kids should have to go to private schools. We may have our hands forced with Kyle though. The easiest thing for us would be him going to the public school that is about 300 yards away. We'd like to keep the kids in the same school, I just don't know if we can. The flip side of that is sending our daughter to the school he goes to, but then is that fair to her? I've gotten mixed messages from parents and some friends I know who are in the school system about how the experience is. As a gotcha, I can blame my parents for voting the way that they did, that it ended up being a huge negative influence on my son, and maybe get them to look at more than 1 or 2 issues when voting.

Here's my point. By rule, everybody has to take the test. If you're not over 95% or some such number, you are "marked down" by the power gumba's and your tests can be "Invalid" as far as using them to score your school in it's place on the list of top to bottoms in your state.

If when we took the tests only th ecollege bound kids took them, and now they're making everyone take them, do you think the scores would go up or down?

Everyone has to take the SAT, or ACT now? Why?

InTenSity wrote:

Here's my point. By rule, everybody has to take the test. If you're not over 95% or some such number, you are "marked down" by the power gumba's and your tests can be "Invalid" as far as using them to score your school in it's place on the list of top to bottoms in your state.

If when we took the tests only th ecollege bound kids took them, and now they're making everyone take them, do you think the scores would go up or down?

Everyone has to take the SAT, or ACT now? Why?

~20 States have contracted with the college board to require all juniors in their state to take the SAT. Michigan used to do the ACT but they switched to the SAT 2 years ago.

Most education decisions are left up to the states, including Common Core standards which were developed and agreed upon by States and their governors.

InTenSity wrote:

Here's my point. By rule, everybody has to take the test. If you're not over 95% or some such number, you are "marked down" by the power gumba's and your tests can be "Invalid" as far as using them to score your school in it's place on the list of top to bottoms in your state.

If when we took the tests only th ecollege bound kids took them, and now they're making everyone take them, do you think the scores would go up or down?

Everyone has to take the SAT, or ACT now? Why?

Not the ACT as recent as last semester at least, but the SAT. ACT still "recommended". I didn't take the SAT even though it was recommended but I did take the ACT , so I had one standardized test under my belt. Niece took the SAT and ACT before getting admitted last fall.

AnomanderRake wrote:

InTenSity wrote:

Everyone has to take the SAT, or ACT now? Why?

~20 States have contracted with the college board to require all juniors in their state to take the SAT. Michigan used to do the ACT but they switched to the SAT 2 years ago.

Most education decisions are left up to the states, including Common Core standards which were developed and agreed upon by States and their governors.

thats a little more clarification than my post

InTenSity wrote:

Miami wrote:InTenSity, what are the options for your boy currently in Florida?  I'm under the impression that Florida has a pretty substantial voucher program, including for disabled kids.  My daughter is in private school.  At her previous school (also private), the state would pay about $12K per year for disabled kids.  Considering tuition for non-disabled kids was $6-$7K per year, the school loved to get disabled kids (never mind that the school was too greedy to hire appropriate teachers for the disabled kids, but that's a whole other issue....like I said that was her previous school, because they were dumbfucks in general there....best decision we ever made was to change schools).  By comparison, low-income families can get vouchers worth about $5K, and would have to pay the difference.  Of course, that's just my personal anecdotal information, but we don't qualify for vouchers (though the info comes from the parents of one of my daughter's good friends who has a learning disability, so I'm assuming it's fairly accurate).

We're just now starting to see what's out there. A lot of it depends on what's out there. I think we're somewhat disadvantaged because neither of us are from the area. We're trying to be involved in the DSAOM (Miami Down Association), and get information that way, but they aren't as big as the one in Broward, and more activities are geared towards older kids. Miami does have a scholarship, called the McKay scholarship and we'll be learning about that very soon. The issue is that my salary and my wife's salary is good enough for right now, but we can't afford private schools. Nor do I think our kids should have to go to private schools. We may have our hands forced with Kyle though. The easiest thing for us would be him going to the public school that is about 300 yards away. We'd like to keep the kids in the same school, I just don't know if we can. The flip side of that is sending our daughter to the school he goes to, but then is that fair to her? I've gotten mixed messages from parents and some friends I know who are in the school system about how the experience is. As a gotcha, I can blame my parents for voting the way that they did, that it ended up being a huge negative influence on my son, and maybe get them to look at more than 1 or 2 issues when voting.

Yeah, the McKay scholarship was the one that my daughter's friend was on.  Damn, that's a lot that you guys have to consider.  Hopefully the Secretary of Education can't just unilaterally slash the way children with disabilities are educated.  That would seem to go against her point about leaving things up to the states.  And hopefully the uproar that caused her to clarify her statements/ignorance on the subject shows her that she can't just expect to cut things willy nilly and have people accept it.  Hopefully.

DWags wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

When I took the ACT it was optional and done on a Saturday morning. To my recollection I'd say there were 100 or so people there taking it. It was done in the cafeteria of my HS, our class size was 202 so roughly 50%. I had to to take the SAT for a couple of the schools I applied to and my HS didn't offer it so I ended up driving 50 miles to take it on another Saturday.

Here's my point. By rule, everybody has to take the test. If you're not over 95% or some such number, you are "marked down" by the power gumba's and your tests can be "Invalid" as far as using them to score your school in it's place on the list of top to bottoms in your state.

If when we took the tests only th ecollege bound kids took them, and now they're making everyone take them, do you think the scores would go up or down?

Think about the kids who didn't take it back then. The mechanics, the carpenters, the kids who were just plain fucked up, the culinary kids, the special needs kids. They all missed those days of taking the ACT. Now, your school has to make them take it. Trust me, I've administered the ACT. Those kids, who, many will be very productive as plumbers carpenters and such, bubble that shit in like a christmas tree, put their head down and sleep. yet, they're scored.

It's not an even playing field. IF you want to discuss the merits of charter schools, and what their promise could be (even if they're not doing it now) I'd be glad to. However, we all need to stop using the fact that ACT scores are going down. Not apples to apples. and it will never show an upward tragectory overall because we will always have those kids who just aren't intersted in college. And that's fine. They will produce in America.

Do you know what year that was made mandatory? There should be a one year dip then you should be able to see gains or losses again.

I went and looked....it was made mandatory in MI in 2007. It's NOT mandatory nationally so the Feds didn't make it happen.

ACT (test)

In addition, some states have used the ACT to assess the performance of schools, and require all high school students to take the ACT, regardless of whether they are college bound. Colorado and Illinois have incorporated the ACT as part of their mandatory testing program since 2001. Michigan has required the ACT since 2007, Kentucky and Tennessee require all high school juniors to take the ACT and Wyoming requires all high school juniors to take either the ACT or the ACT WorkKeys.[24]

LooseGoose wrote:

DWags wrote:

Here's my point. By rule, everybody has to take the test. If you're not over 95% or some such number, you are "marked down" by the power gumba's and your tests can be "Invalid" as far as using them to score your school in it's place on the list of top to bottoms in your state.

If when we took the tests only th ecollege bound kids took them, and now they're making everyone take them, do you think the scores would go up or down?

Think about the kids who didn't take it back then. The mechanics, the carpenters, the kids who were just plain fucked up, the culinary kids, the special needs kids. They all missed those days of taking the ACT. Now, your school has to make them take it. Trust me, I've administered the ACT. Those kids, who, many will be very productive as plumbers carpenters and such, bubble that shit in like a christmas tree, put their head down and sleep. yet, they're scored.

It's not an even playing field. IF you want to discuss the merits of charter schools, and what their promise could be (even if they're not doing it now) I'd be glad to. However, we all need to stop using the fact that ACT scores are going down. Not apples to apples. and it will never show an upward tragectory overall because we will always have those kids who just aren't intersted in college. And that's fine. They will produce in America.

Do you know what year that was made mandatory? There should be a one year dip then you should be able to see gains or losses again.

Again. You will never have a true reading. It's fodder used against schools. Gains and losses assumes that those kids not interested in college some how become interested. Second part is you are never testing the growth of the kids taking them. Where they came from where they got to. It's a new group yearly. Growth shows you how a group of teachers are doing. Proficiency never does. DeVos doesn't understand that and the people interested in showing the decline of schools and use average test scores are not being honest to those who just see numbers and form an opinion.

Oh, and before anyone goes further with this, let's ask the question why would any state require all students to take the ACT? What are they trying to prove? In every classroom in America that require college prep you have fish elephants lions and monkeys. If the test that day is climbing a tree how will everyone in the class do?