Izzo needs to retire

by **Dr. Strangelove** March 18th 2018, 5:36 pm

Built an amazing program but never validated 2000.

by **DWags** March 18th 2018, 5:43 pm

He’s not going anywhere and everybody can argue about this, but he’s on the bench next year playing man.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** March 18th 2018, 5:47 pm

Anyone that plays ben Carter over Jackson and doesn’t make adjustments to shitty shooting should probably retire

by **DWags** March 18th 2018, 5:50 pm

Whether we did this, this weekend or after the Duke loss, I knew it was coming. You all know who the coach will be next year. So, just hope he scouts himself and makes needed changes.

by **Dr. Strangelove** March 18th 2018, 5:55 pm

Ward played 16 min. Jackson 15. Tillman 22. Carter 23

by **DWags** March 18th 2018, 5:56 pm

Dr. Strangelove wrote:Ward played 16 min. Jackson 15. Tillman 22. Carter 23

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** March 18th 2018, 5:58 pm

DWags wrote:Whether we did this, this weekend or after the Duke loss, I knew it was coming. You all know who the coach will be next year. So, just hope he scouts himself and makes needed changes.

Izzo doesn’t change.

by aualum06 March 18th 2018, 5:59 pm

Dr. Strangelove wrote:Ward played 16 min. Jackson 15. Tillman 22. Carter 23

I mean wtf? High low with Jackson and ward all day. Heck even Bridges at high post.

by **DWags** March 18th 2018, 6:01 pm

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
DWags wrote:Whether we did this, this weekend or after the Duke loss, I knew it was coming. You all know who the coach will be next year. So, just hope he scouts himself and makes needed changes.

Izzo doesn’t change.

Hey, he changed it up and played Carter a bunch. Never know.

by **Cameron** March 18th 2018, 6:03 pm

I'm fine with how much Tillman played. Carter should have gotten 5 minutes tops.

by Guest March 18th 2018, 6:28 pm

gHost Spartan wrote:Izzo's in a huge slump and it happens to coaches. Izzo wasn't the one who couldn't make a shot today - the team absolutely fucking sucked. A couple more shots here and there and we win today.

The guy has dealt with so much fucking drama this year. This could be a blessing in disguise. We shall see next year.

Fuck blessings in disguise.

by **steveschneider** March 18th 2018, 6:34 pm

I still think Izzo’s offense sucks. It is so stale and predictable.

by Guest March 18th 2018, 6:35 pm

steveschneider wrote:I still think Izzo’s offense sucks. It is so stale and predictable.

Maybe he needs to attend a B_______________ clinic.

by **steveschneider** March 18th 2018, 6:56 pm

LooseGoose wrote:
steveschneider wrote:I still think Izzo’s offense sucks. It is so stale and predictable.

Maybe he needs to attend a B_______________ clinic.

Beilein’s offense is really good. They can dribble and drive and draw fouls. We’ve made fun of him living and dying by the three point line but that’s been the story for MSU hoops for a while now.

by **Rocinante** March 18th 2018, 6:57 pm

You need to retire from posting.

by **steveschneider** March 18th 2018, 7:06 pm

Passing the ball around the top of the arc and jacking up a low percentage shot before a shot clock violation isn’t working.

by **MiamiSpartan** March 18th 2018, 9:26 pm

gHost Spartan wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

Fuck blessings in disguise.

Agree. Sucks now. The reality is that unless we made it to the Final Four then it really didn't matter if we lost today or against Duke next weekend.

Exactly. It was Final Four or Bust. I wouldn't feel a damn bit better if we had lost to Duke, or even to Kansas.

Say what you want about the minutes of certain players, but we missed so many open shots in the first half. Bridges missed 2 free throws in one trip to the line (how often does he miss 2 in a whole game?). Missed the front end of multiple one and ones. When we got the ball inside, we had an awful time finishing. Maybe we choked under the pressure/expectations. I felt we got really tight in the last 10 minutes.

Oh well, life goes on.

by **Cameron** March 18th 2018, 10:28 pm

steveschneider wrote:
LooseGoose wrote:

Maybe he needs to attend a B_______________ clinic.

Beilein’s offense is really good. They can dribble and drive and draw fouls. We’ve made fun of him living and dying by the three point line but that’s been the story for MSU hoops for a while now.

We haven't really had a player capable of consistently getting to the rim in an iso or pick and roll situation since Kalin Lucas. Appling had some moments, but never did it consistently. It seems like in any given year, we only have one, maybe two guys capable of dribbling the ball more than twice before they panic and either turn it over or pass it. It's quite strange.

There was a stretch today where McQuaid was running point, and he is a one dribble and pass guy. That's not a recipe for success.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** March 18th 2018, 10:41 pm

The criticism is bizarre and reactionary.

How do you beat a 2-3 zone? I know nothing about basketball but you beat a 2-3 zone with getting the ball into the high post, good passing from the high post and by hitting 3s.

We had open looks all day from 3. Langford 1-7, Winston 3-11, Miles 3-12, McQuaid 1-7. 8 of thirty fuckin seven. That's it, that's the ball game.

Literally, if we go 9 for 37 we win and all of these hot takes are on hold for another week.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** March 18th 2018, 10:48 pm

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:The criticism is bizarre and reactionary.

How do you beat a 2-3 zone? I know nothing about basketball but you beat a 2-3 zone with getting the ball into the high post, good passing from the high post and by hitting 3s.

We had open looks all day from 3. Langford 1-7, Winston 3-11, Miles 3-12, McQuaid 1-7. 8 of thirty fuckin seven. That's it, that's the ball game.

Literally, if we go 9 for 37 we win and all of these hot takes are on hold for another week.

Well wbh I guess I would say that this isn’t the first time in the last 30 years that we’ve struggled against a 2-3 zone and it prolly won’t be the last. Why did we all know that going into this game against an 11 seed we’d look like shit and it would be a slug fest even if we did make that one extra three? And if it is that tough to beat a 2-3 zone why doesn’t the entire universe run it always especially us?

by **Watch Out Pylon!** March 18th 2018, 10:49 pm

This thread needs to retire.

by **DWags** March 18th 2018, 11:03 pm

I’m bummed. Not gonna lie.

by **Frank Ricard** March 19th 2018, 4:29 am

Jackson was not good in the high post. He'd get the ball and was so determined to drive, he'd put the ball on the floor. All he needed to do was turn and shoot. It's a 10-15' jump shot. When Carter came in because he's a better passer in the high post, he overlooked some decent shots. He actually hit one, missed another and was so quick to pass out of that position he was afraid to shoot.

The worst came when Carter had an open look from about 6 feet with around 2 min when we were down a bucket and instead passed out where now the shot clock was an issue and we just forced another 3 ball.

Another thing I would have liked to see at least tried, is put Bridges at the high post, instead of the wing. I know that's not his natural position, but just getting him the ball closer to the rim instead of roaming the perimeter was doing something.

by **MiamiSpartan** March 19th 2018, 6:20 am

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:The criticism is bizarre and reactionary.

How do you beat a 2-3 zone? I know nothing about basketball but you beat a 2-3 zone with getting the ball into the high post, good passing from the high post and by hitting 3s.

We had open looks all day from 3. Langford 1-7, Winston 3-11, Miles 3-12, McQuaid 1-7. 8 of thirty fuckin seven. That's it, that's the ball game.

Literally, if we go 9 for 37 we win and all of these hot takes are on hold for another week.
Well wbh I guess I would say that this isn’t the first time in the last 30 years that we’ve struggled against a 2-3 zone and it prolly won’t be the last. Why did we all know that going into this game against an 11 seed we’d look like shit and it would be a slug fest even if we did make that one extra three? And if it is that tough to beat a 2-3 zone why doesn’t the entire universe run it always especially us?

To just say "we always look like crap against a 2-3 zone and did again, so same ol, same ol" is overly simplistic. WBH's point seemed to be (and I agree) that we did decent creating good shots against it, but missed so many good looks. And uncharacteristically so. It's probably the best long range shooting team we've ever had and couldn't make shit.

by **steveschneider** March 19th 2018, 7:15 am

Cameron wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

Beilein’s offense is really good. They can dribble and drive and draw fouls. We’ve made fun of him living and dying by the three point line but that’s been the story for MSU hoops for a while now.

We haven't really had a player capable of consistently getting to the rim in an iso or pick and roll situation since Kalin Lucas. Appling had some moments, but never did it consistently. It seems like in any given year, we only have one, maybe two guys capable of dribbling the ball more than twice before they panic and either turn it over or pass it. It's quite strange.

There was a stretch today where McQuaid was running point, and he is a one dribble and pass guy. That's not a recipe for success.

I agree. Even in the Appling Payne Harris era it was all about playing hot potato with the ball at the perimeter and then jacking up a three as the shot clock is about to expire.

Boeheim said after the game he got MSU to do exactly what he wanted to do. Take a bunch of uncomfortable out of rhythm three point shots.

I’m not a basketball expert but it’s painfully obvious it’s about spreading the floor, dribbling and driving with the ball.

https://twitter.com/ryanschuiling/status/975504881355247616

by **steveschneider** March 19th 2018, 7:22 am

https://twitter.com/timalberta/status/975480691197652994

Tom Izzo exposed.

Great recruiter, runs a clean program. But the hard truth, as real fans know, is that his archaic offense, bizarre sub patterns and stubborn refusal to make in-game adjustments has cost us 2 chances at national titles in the last 3 years. Today was an atrocity.
Jaren Jackson will be a top-3 pick in the draft. He scored 2 points today and sat on the bench most of the second half. But hey, by all means, keep talking up Izzo as Mr. March. Guy just pissed away the most talented roster he’ll ever have.
I look forward to Izzo blaming missed shots.

You lost to the last team in, and you did it by doing exactly what they wanted you to do: launching out-of-rhythm 3s.

Maybe, after missing the first 20, you realize beating a zone requires dribble penetration and getting to the line?

by **DWags** March 19th 2018, 7:28 am

steveschneider wrote:https://twitter.com/timalberta/status/975480691197652994

Tom Izzo exposed.

Great recruiter, runs a clean program. But the hard truth, as real fans know, is that his archaic offense, bizarre sub patterns and stubborn refusal to make in-game adjustments has cost us 2 chances at national titles in the last 3 years. Today was an atrocity.
Jaren Jackson will be a top-3 pick in the draft. He scored 2 points today and sat on the bench most of the second half. But hey, by all means, keep talking up Izzo as Mr. March. Guy just pissed away the most talented roster he’ll ever have.
I look forward to Izzo blaming missed shots.

You lost to the last team in, and you did it by doing exactly what they wanted you to do: launching out-of-rhythm 3s.

Maybe, after missing the first 20, you realize beating a zone requires dribble penetration and getting to the line?

Well since we’re piling on, I see Syracuse was playing three guys with four fouls for the last ten minutes of the game. That’s crazy.

by The Matador March 19th 2018, 9:28 am

It was obvious to anyone with basic knowledge of MSU’s basketball program the last 3 years. Izzo has refused to adjust, and looks out of place with today’s game.

You can’t have Ben Carter play his first meaningful minutes in 2 years during your last game.

You can’t have goins eat Ward’s minutes all season, and destroy ward’s confidence and ability.

You can’t have McQuaid run the point when he hasn’t done so for more than 30 seconds all year.

Maybe you recruit the NBA talent and let them play.

Ward, Jackson, bridges, all should have averaged 28-32 min a game. Ward and Jackson were no where near that.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** March 19th 2018, 10:03 am

Love the missed shots angle. Then coach your players to start attacking the fucking rim. What a train wreck. Overrated.

by **steveschneider** March 19th 2018, 10:12 am

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Love the missed shots angle. Then coach your players to start attacking the fucking rim. What a train wreck. Overrated.

Saw my friend that coached high school basketball in Brooklyn at the coffee shop this morning. He agreed with me Izzo needs to update his offense.

Two biggest changes that I think will help; update the offense and learn to limit the fouls on defense.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** March 19th 2018, 10:19 am

Update the offense is laughable steve. What does that even mean? Specifically, talk about the sets that MSU runs against conventional defenses, and how long we've been using them. I want you to call out at least 5 or 6 of them and provide references to past teams. Get off twitter dude, it's ruining your brain. Jesus you watch two tournament games in a row that we lose and miss wide open shots in and all of a sudden Beilein is Paul Westhead and Izzo is running 4 corners.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/offensive-efficiency

by **NigelUno** March 19th 2018, 10:22 am

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Love the missed shots angle. Then coach your players to start attacking the fucking rim. What a train wreck. Overrated.

It's not really an "angle". We missed a lot of shots.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** March 19th 2018, 10:25 am

NigelUno wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Love the missed shots angle. Then coach your players to start attacking the fucking rim. What a train wreck. Overrated.

It's not really an "angle". We missed a lot of shots.

And we kept shooting. And kept shooting some more. Smart and worked out. Totally didn’t play into what cuse wanted MSU to do.

by **steveschneider** March 19th 2018, 10:28 am

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Update the offense is laughable steve. What does that even mean? Specifically, talk about the sets that MSU runs against conventional defenses, and how long we've been using them. I want you to call out at least 5 or 6 of them and provide references to past teams. Get off twitter dude, it's ruining your brain. Jesus you watch two tournament games in a row that we lose and miss wide open shots in and all of a sudden Beilein is Paul Westhead and Izzo is running 4 corners.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/offensive-efficiency

Stats are for losers. Dribble and drive. Draw fouls.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** March 19th 2018, 10:30 am

Guys please name the players on our team who have the dribble drive/take it to the rim skillset. Go ahead. Against a 2-3 zone with 3 guys 6-11 or taller.

Coach them up? Ok. I'm going to sign up Coach Izzo to teach me to have a 45" vertical.

by **NigelUno** March 19th 2018, 10:36 am

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

It's not really an "angle". We missed a lot of shots.

And we kept shooting. And kept shooting some more. Smart and worked out. Totally didn’t play into what cuse wanted MSU to do.

They wanted us to miss? Yes, I agree.

by Guest March 19th 2018, 10:37 am

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Guys please name the players on our team who have the dribble drive/take it to the rim skillset.

Tum.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** March 19th 2018, 10:39 am

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Guys please name the players on our team who have the dribble drive/take it to the rim skillset. Go ahead. Against a 2-3 zone with 3 guys 6-11 or taller.

Coach them up? Ok. I'm going to sign up Coach Izzo to teach me to have a 45" vertical.

Cash? Bridges may not be great at it but he’s done it. Who recruits the players? Jackson could have tried more but our lottery pick was on the bench because ben fucking Carter. Pissed away another chance at a natty. Izzo is what he is.

by **steveschneider** March 19th 2018, 10:45 am

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Guys please name the players on our team who have the dribble drive/take it to the rim skillset. Go ahead. Against a 2-3 zone with 3 guys 6-11 or taller.

Coach them up? Ok. I'm going to sign up Coach Izzo to teach me to have a 45" vertical.

If you don’t have them then start recruiting the players that can. That’s where basketball is at in 2018. Ive probably watched about a dozen college basketball games since last Tuesday and have got a good look at probably 40 teams from just catching chunks of different games. Tournament teams are dribbling and getting to the free throw line. A lot of the good dribblers can even create a really good three point shot by creating space. I don’t know what else to say but MSU just looks dysfunctional and stagnant in their half court sets.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** March 19th 2018, 10:46 am

Cassius can sneak in for layups from time to time but he wasn't doing it against guards who were 6'5 and athletic. And he would have had no chance among the tall trees. Bridges can't take the ball off the dribble, we know this.

You want to blame the staff for not recruiting guys who can drive the ball? I guess that's a fine opinion and fair. Maybe we shouldn't have recruited Bridges or Winston or Langford. I don't think Romeo Weems can do that either, maybe we should stop recruiting him.

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