Michigan One of The Highest In School Threats

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

I.B. Fine wrote:
.
Wags, I am just jaded, seems we spend way to much time worrying about which pronouns are 'safe' to use, while lives fall through the cracks.

Bob, you're close, saving druggies doesn't get votes.

I'm smarter than I look.

I.B. Fine wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
I'm smarter than I look.

I figured, no one is that.......

Heat Miser wrote:Had lunch with a friend recently. His son goes to a private school near Parkland. Said they now have armed rent-a-cops on the roof.

1. Armed guards
2. Metal detectors
3. Security doors

We're basically sending our kids to prison every day.

LooseGoose wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:Kids simply going to school and getting mowed down by guns are simply choosing to go to school.

OK, after this I'll stfu.

Over the past 25 years the US has AVERAGED 10 deaths a year in school shootings. I'll bet the average citizen would think it MUCH higher because of the wall to wall coverage on the networks. More kids die walking or biking to school than do in school shootings. I'm sorry that introducing facts may stir even more emotion but we should at least look at them.

You're smart enough to know that's WAY down the list of how kids die. And you left out "mowed down by idiots using guns", you want to make it seem as if the guns are doing it all by themselves.


School shootings are not the new normal, despite statistics that stretch the truth

In print and on TV, Americans were bombarded with facts and figures suggesting that the problem of school shootings was out of control. We were informed, for example, that since 2013 there has been an average of one school shooting a week in the U.S., and 18 since the beginning of this year. While these statistics were not exactly lies or fake news, they involved stretching the definition of a school shooting well beyond the limits of most people’s imagination.

Since 1990, there have been 22 shootings at elementary and secondary schools in which two or more people were killed, not counting those perpetrators who committed suicide.

Over the past quarter-century, on average about 10 students are slain in school shootings annually.

Compare the school fatality rate with the more than 100 school-age children accidentally killed each year riding their bikes or walking to school.

Just in case you think these stats are from an idiot:

James Alan Fox is the Lipman Professor of Criminology, Law and Public Policy at Northeastern University, a member of USA TODAY's Board of Contributors and co-author of Extreme Killing: Understanding Serial and Mass Murder.

Dendrobates wrote:Also, kudos to everyone for the discussion. I want to hear others thoughts of what is going on. Even if some are off point, Bob brings up the point of votes/money. It is an unfortunate reality.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Can we talk about how many people are killed each year at train crossings? I heard a commercial and it's a lot.

Floyd Robertson wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Can we talk about how many people are killed each year at train crossings? I heard a commercial and it's a lot.

Generally speaking, aren't they all Darwin Award recipients?

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:I worry about this stuff a lot more now that I have a kid that will be in school in a few years. These incidents seem to be getting worse not better. Nothing is being done about it. Nothing will be done about it. It's fucking frustrating. It's doubly frustrating when the other side won't even engage in a discussion about it. All you can do it hope it doesn't touch you. Fingers crossed I guess.

Dendrobates wrote:Lets try not to wells this up. I think this could stay on the main board if we all cooperate.

steveschneider wrote:The one thing that gives me hope is the young people speaking out on this issue.
https://twitter.com/chuckmodi1/status/977270917989576704

They’re very well spoken and seem up for the challenge to fix the problem

Da Mayor wrote:

steveschneider wrote:The one thing that gives me hope is the young people speaking out on this issue.
https://twitter.com/chuckmodi1/status/977270917989576704

They’re very well spoken and seem up for the challenge to fix the problem

Until they get distracted by Insta.

Heat Miser wrote:

Da Mayor wrote:

Until they get distracted by Insta.

It's that "can do" attitude of yours that really attracts people.

SawGreen wrote:I honestly believe the rise can be in no small part attributed to a decline in morality with these contributing factors... combined with the ability to obtain weapons.

Video gaming - death at every turn.

Social media - a environment where too many can be shunned or heroes for non-heroic deeds.

Internet - where you can find support for your own internal misguided thoughts and cause.

Pussification - I appreciate the strides for all causes for equality, but I think it also provides a feeling for some that society understands and has your back if you do harm. I catch shit for this, but only on-line. I teach my kids to have self-worth, understand there are ass-holes in this world (and everyone knows they are ass-holes); and have some back-bone.

Divorce and single-parenthood - It's getting harder and harder for single parents to provide the emotional support for their kids, and too often it seems, that support is to support even the bad shit they do.

I know video games will draw ire. "I play and it doesn't make me want to kill people."... every person is different, particularly emotionally.

Before the person kills, they first have to want to kill. I don't mind making it harder on them in getting the tool, but the tool is not the problem.

Dendrobates wrote:Lets try not to wells this up. I think this could stay on the main board if we all cooperate.

LooseGoose wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Are kids coming into a school setting and forcing other kids to OD on heroin? There's your answer.

You know what?   School shooting deaths would be a tiny fraction of that 13,000.  I'll bet that among that 65,000 opioid deaths you could find a similar fraction that were compelled by others to "try this".   I guess it depends on how you want to define things.

As a country we spend enormous time arguing over how to save 100 while 10s of thousands die.   That doesn't mean the 100 aren't important but it's not a rational way to apportion your time and effort.

SawGreen wrote:I honestly believe the rise can be in no small part attributed to a decline in morality with these contributing factors... combined with the ability to obtain weapons.

Video gaming - death at every turn.

Social media - a environment where too many can be shunned or heroes for non-heroic deeds.

Internet - where you can find support for your own internal misguided thoughts and cause.

Pussification - I appreciate the strides for all causes for equality, but I think it also provides a feeling for some that society understands and has your back if you do harm.  I catch shit for this, but only on-line.  I teach my kids to have self-worth, understand there are ass-holes in this world (and everyone knows they are ass-holes); and have some back-bone.

Divorce and single-parenthood - It's getting harder and harder for single parents to provide the emotional support for their kids, and too often it seems, that support is to support even the bad shit they do.

I know video games will draw ire.  "I play and it doesn't make me want to kill people."... every person is different, particularly emotionally.

Before the person kills, they first have to want to kill.  I don't mind making it harder on them in getting the tool, but the tool is not the problem.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
A lot of this is dumb.

LooseGoose wrote:Good to see Travis taking the time to engage in the discussion.  I've been waiting all after for his approval/disapproval.

SawGreen wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
A lot of this is dumb.

Gamer aren't you.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:As far as why Michigan faces more threats, which is why we’re here, I actually wonder if certain states are better at identifying the threats than others which skyrockets them up these charts but doesn’t mean it’s actually different.

If a kid in Michigan and a kid in, oh I dunno, Alabama, both make a threat on their insta but only the kid in Michigan’s threat is picked up and noticed by those in charge, then that’s the only one that’s added to this stat. Does it mean more kids in Michigan make threats? Well, no.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

SawGreen wrote:

Gamer aren't you.

Well that was a dumb comment. But a lot of the rest of the post was too.

SawGreen wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Well that was a dumb comment. But a lot of the rest of the post was too.

You didn't answer the question.  Explain my "dumbness" hopefully in 5000 words or less.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

SawGreen wrote:

You didn't answer the question.  Explain my "dumbness" hopefully in 5000 words or less.

Well your paragraph about “pussification” (which isn’t even really a thing but whatever.) doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. No one knows what the hell youre even trying to get at there.

Your comments about the internet are like a guy saying in 1920 “well there are more car accidents because we have cars now! Back in my horse days no one died from cars” cool, you’re right, but it doesn’t help.

Same thing regarding social media, which is literally the same point as the internet one. 

For video games- google it yourself. I’m not really a “gamer” though I sometimes play them. Plenty of people have done studies. Plenty of people have found no credible link, but that doesn’t stop plenty of other people from thinking they’re making a smart point. They’re not.

DWags wrote:Here is a question:  We had a discussion at dinner last night, and I'm not trying to hijack this thread. MSU Addict brought it up about kids doing "stupid shit".  Besides these threats, how many of you have been somehow in someway touched by an opioid death from a person you know or a family you know?  

Don't need the tragic stories because they all are.  But I have a 21 year old, and a 17 year old, and both have had friends die from that.  So yeah, kids do stupid shit.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:But today is today saw green. You don’t get to go back. Like I said if you want to blame the existence of cars for more car accidents that’s fine and right but it doesn’t move the conversation forward whatsoever. Cars aren’t going to stop existing. So great, you’re probably right that the internet lends a hand, but acknowledging that is like step 1 in a 20 step process.

But again, the “pussification” which isn’t a real thing, doesn’t make any sense at all still. I think what your getting at is what your mental profile of what these people is. Which, again, google any number of studies and maybe you’ll be like “hey wait. Maybe the issue is bigger than the games they play or the music they listen to.” Which it is. You’re way more on target with your talking about the internet, but it’s not even remotely close to a solution.

SawGreen wrote:I honestly believe the rise can be in no small part attributed to a decline in morality with these contributing factors... combined with the ability to obtain weapons.

Video gaming - death at every turn.

Social media - a environment where too many can be shunned or heroes for non-heroic deeds.

Internet - where you can find support for your own internal misguided thoughts and cause.

Pussification - I appreciate the strides for all causes for equality, but I think it also provides a feeling for some that society understands and has your back if you do harm. I catch shit for this, but only on-line. I teach my kids to have self-worth, understand there are ass-holes in this world (and everyone knows they are ass-holes); and have some back-bone.

Divorce and single-parenthood - It's getting harder and harder for single parents to provide the emotional support for their kids, and too often it seems, that support is to support even the bad shit they do.

I know video games will draw ire. "I play and it doesn't make me want to kill people."... every person is different, particularly emotionally.

Before the person kills, they first have to want to kill. I don't mind making it harder on them in getting the tool, but the tool is not the problem.

SawGreen wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:But today is today saw green. You don’t get to go back. Like I said if you want to blame the existence of cars for more car accidents that’s fine and right but it doesn’t move the conversation forward whatsoever. Cars aren’t going to stop existing. So great, you’re probably right that the internet lends a hand, but acknowledging that is like step 1 in a 20 step process.

But again, the “pussification” which isn’t a real thing, doesn’t make any sense at all still. I think what your getting at is what your mental profile of what these people is. Which, again, google any number of studies and maybe you’ll be like “hey wait. Maybe the issue is bigger than the games they play or the music they listen to.” Which it is. You’re way more on target with your talking about the internet, but it’s not even remotely close to a solution.

I never once mentioned solutions.  I mentioned contributing factors.

Cameron wrote:
Do you play video games? Do you have any first hand experience? Hell, do you have any studies you can point to that demonstrate that video games contribute to real world violence?

SawGreen wrote:

Cameron wrote:
Do you play video games? Do you have any first hand experience? Hell, do you have any studies you can point to that demonstrate that video games contribute to real world violence?

Q: Do you play video games? Do you have any first hand experience?

A: Not much anymore, but I have. Doom was awesome. Do you own guns? I don't want to kill because I own them... because I'm talking about me.

Q: Hell, do you have any studies you can point to that demonstrate that video games contribute to real world violence?

A: En masse, of course not. What's the ratio of "they do contribute" do you need? We are talking about a minuscule to extremely finite minority of people with mental issues. Here is what I do think. Nascar drivers train on video games, as do NFL players, soccer players, etc. For those predisposed or on the fringe, I earnestly believe that video games can contribute if for nothing else than fantasy and "practice".

None of my comments are an "attack" on society (or gamers). I do think morality has declined, I do think intestinal fortitude (on the average) has declined. But, even if neither is true, when you look at the perpetrators, I listed things that I believe are contributing factors.