Could Saban come back to MSU and win a NC?

Why or why not?

Speculate wildly

No. No way, no how would he ever come back. He's nearing retirement unless he decides to do a Joe Pa or that fossil out at Kansas State. He's got the machine destroying everything in his path. Would you want to start over and build up another program* at that age? I wouldn't.

* I'm talking taking us to the legitimate title contender level year in and year out.

Now lets say it's some sort of North Korean forced labor camp where he has to come back... Yeah, give him a few years and I bet he could get us competing with OSU on a consistent basis.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:No. No way, no how would he ever come back. He's nearing retirement unless he decides to do a Joe Pa or that fossil out at Kansas State. He's got the machine destroying everything in his path. Would you want to start over and build up another program* at that age? I wouldn't.

* I'm talking taking us to the legitimate title contender level year in and year out.

He didn’t say would he said could pylon.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:No. No way, no how would he ever come back. He's nearing retirement unless he decides to do a Joe Pa or that fossil out at Kansas State. He's got the machine destroying everything in his path. Would you want to start over and build up another program* at that age? I wouldn't.

* I'm talking taking us to the legitimate title contender level year in and year out.

He didn’t say would he said could pylon.

Keep reading nerd.

If the admin gave him carte blanche, I'd say yeah within 4 years he could have us in National Title contention.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
He didn’t say would he said could pylon.

Keep reading nerd.

Yeah you eventually got there in a much shorter separate post after rambling like an idiot about an irrelevant question. Great job.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Keep reading nerd.

Yeah you eventually got there in a much shorter separate post after rambling like an idiot about an irrelevant question. Great job.

I think most people agree with my first post and I bet they're glad I mentioned it. You're welcome.

So are we day drinking, Wags?

Just trying to get a discussion going. I don’t think he could. For a bunch of reasons

DWags wrote:Just trying to get a discussion going. I don’t think he could. For a bunch of reasons

You didn't answer the question.

He couldn't, things haven't changed that much since he was here, still a lot of competition for regional talent. His current swag would help, but not enough to replicate the 'Bama machine.

Nope. I don’t think he could Because of internal problems not external problems

I'd say yes, but not immediately (like not in year 1 or 2). But he is such a huge name now, that he wouldn't have much trouble bringing in top notch recruits from all of the country. He needs that talent. He wouldn't come in and have some brilliant training, tactical or motivational edge that would immediately lift our current players.

Ship has sailed DWags. Nick Saban is a helluva coach so long as he is given everything he wants including new contracts when he decides its time. Something MSU couldn't / wouldn't do.

Saban is the ex-wife who hauled ass out of town. There's no reconciliation.

I.B. Fine wrote:

DWags wrote:Just trying to get a discussion going. I don’t think he could. For a bunch of reasons

You didn't answer the question.

He couldn't, things haven't changed that much since he was here, still a lot of competition for regional talent. His current swag would help, but not enough to replicate the 'Bama machine.

The biggest thing that has changed is the Saban brand name. Just his name alone will bring in some top end talent. That and Bobby Bagman Williams. In this hypothetical are we paying to play on the scale that Alabama does... allegedly.

No

Even if MSU gave Saban complete freedom to act as he wishes or thinks best, we still have a revenue problem.

In terms of revenue we are 21st over all and 6th in the B1G at 126 million.  About 60 million less than OSU and Michigan and 50 million or so behind Alabama.  That is not changing in the short run and Saban is 66 years old.

When he left MSU he said that he could not recruit here.  Our recruiting disadvantages have not changed.

Some are misinterpreting what I’m asking. I know he can’t or won’t comeback. I’m asking if he could with conditions at MSU.

I'd argue yes. That 99 team was loaded and one of the top 3 teams I've seen at MSU.

Because of his clout and him being the GOAT I think he could recruit better this time around.

DWags wrote:Some are misinterpreting what I’m asking. I know he can’t or won’t comeback. I’m asking if he could with conditions at MSU.

If he came back I'd assume that the school would be willing to shell out the cash necessary for him to be here and have the support he needed to load up the staff with the best coordinators available.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

I.B. Fine wrote:
You didn't answer the question.

He couldn't, things haven't changed that much since he was here, still a lot of competition for regional talent. His current swag would help, but not enough to replicate the 'Bama machine.

The biggest thing that has changed is the Saban brand name. Just his name alone will bring in some top end talent. That and Bobby Bagman Williams. In this hypothetical are we paying to play on the scale that Alabama does... allegedly.

The Saban brand is combined with school - he is selling Saban at Alabama and their resources.

Just like Harbaugh sells himself at Michigan, Meyer sells himself at OSU etc.

Saban at MSU is simply not as strong of a brand as Saban at 'Bama.

It is also MUCH harder to cheat here.

I say yes. Not like we're that far removed from a Rose Bowl team that imo would have won playoffs that year.

Add Saban clout and we're ranked a few spots higher all year to help get to the playoffs

MSU addict wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

The biggest thing that has changed is the Saban brand name. Just his name alone will bring in some top end talent. That and Bobby Bagman Williams. In this hypothetical are we paying to play on the scale that Alabama does... allegedly.

The Saban brand is combined with school - he is selling Saban at Alabama and their resources.

Just like Harbaugh sells himself at Michigan, Meyer sells himself at OSU etc.

Saban at MSU is simply not as strong of a brand as Saban at 'Bama.

It is also MUCH harder to cheat here.

If a 17 year old 5 star recruit has Nick Saban recruiting them I think it makes a difference. Also, that 99 team is all the proof I need to see to prove to me he actually could recruit at MSU and this was when UofM, ND, OSU, Wisconsin and PSU were national power houses.

steveschneider wrote:

MSU addict wrote:
The Saban brand is combined with school - he is selling Saban at Alabama and their resources.

Just like Harbaugh sells himself at Michigan, Meyer sells himself at OSU etc.

Saban at MSU is simply not as strong of a brand as Saban at 'Bama.

It is also MUCH harder to cheat here.

If a 17 year old 5 star recruit has Nick Saban recruiting them I think it makes a difference. Also, that 99 team is all the proof I need to see to prove to me he actually could recruit at MSU and this was when UofM, ND, OSU, Wisconsin and PSU were national power houses.

Saban sells that they can and will win a National Championship.  That is a much harder sell to a 17 year old who's Dad may not remember when we last won one.

What was Saban's bowl record at MSU?

Yes.

Nope. We are still in Michigan. We don't have the local recruiting base the southern schools do. Our ceiling is Dantonio. Enjoy it. Our floor is much much lower.

Bobby might be available and interested.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Nope. We are still in Michigan. We don't have the local recruiting base the southern schools do. Our ceiling is Dantonio. Enjoy it. Our floor is much much lower.

While Dantonio has done very, very well, I refuse to believe we can't do even better, maybe not easily, but certainly possible.
I lived through Muddy, don't tell me about worse.

No.

MSU addict wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

If a 17 year old 5 star recruit has Nick Saban recruiting them I think it makes a difference. Also, that 99 team is all the proof I need to see to prove to me he actually could recruit at MSU and this was when UofM, ND, OSU, Wisconsin and PSU were national power houses.

Saban sells that they can and will win a National Championship.  That is a much harder sell to a 17 year old who's Dad may not remember when we last won one.

What was Saban's bowl record at MSU?

I'd argue comparing the 90's CFB land scape to the current CFB land scape is a bad comparison. The B10 is a lot more diluted, the schedules are weaker and Michigan is not the powerhouse that it was in the 90's. Who knows though you could be right... it's fun to argue about hypothetical scenarios on the internet.

I.B. Fine wrote:

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Nope. We are still in Michigan. We don't have the local recruiting base the southern schools do. Our ceiling is Dantonio. Enjoy it. Our floor is much much lower.

While Dantonio has done very, very well, I refuse to believe we can't do even better, maybe not easily, but certainly possible.
I lived through Muddy, don't tell me about worse.

#teamIB

steveschneider wrote:

MSU addict wrote:
The Saban brand is combined with school - he is selling Saban at Alabama and their resources.

Just like Harbaugh sells himself at Michigan, Meyer sells himself at OSU etc.

Saban at MSU is simply not as strong of a brand as Saban at 'Bama.

It is also MUCH harder to cheat here.

If a 17 year old 5 star recruit has Nick Saban recruiting them I think it makes a difference. Also, that 99 team is all the proof I need to see to prove to me he actually could recruit at MSU and this was when UofM, ND, OSU, Wisconsin and PSU were national power houses.

On the contrary, I think that 99 team shows the trouble that he had recruiting at MSU.  He wasn't exactly beating UM, OSU, and ND for those kids.  The team was built with a lot of questionable kids, like we would often end up with in those days, that managed to keep their shit together for a few months.  Some very key players probably wouldn't even be allowed at MSU today (i.e., didn't we stop taking Prop 48 kids?...can't remember if that's a school policy or a Dantonio policy), and some others that we wouldn't want at MSU today.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

If a 17 year old 5 star recruit has Nick Saban recruiting them I think it makes a difference. Also, that 99 team is all the proof I need to see to prove to me he actually could recruit at MSU and this was when UofM, ND, OSU, Wisconsin and PSU were national power houses.

On the contrary, I think that 99 team shows the trouble that he had recruiting at MSU.  He wasn't exactly beating UM, OSU, and ND for those kids.  The team was built with a lot of questionable kids, like we would often end up with in those days, that managed to keep their shit together for a few months.  Some very key players probably wouldn't even be allowed at MSU today (i.e., didn't we stop taking Prop 48 kids?...can't remember if that's a school policy or a Dantonio policy), and some others that we wouldn't want at MSU today.

Can't really speak to the Prop 48 kids, I barely follow recruiting now and it never even crossed my mind back then. Looking back through Saban's career from what I know now he recruited some of the all time great Spartans: Andre Rison, Plaxico, Jim Miller, Tony Banks, Ingram, Percy Snow, Duckett, Adrian Peterson...I'm sure there's so many more to add to that list I just don't know who recruited what players back then.

I do think Saban could beat UofM today for recruits. The climate is so different now in the State. Head to head vs OSU or ND for a recruit I have no idea what would happen but I don't think it's unreasonable to speculate the GOAT would be in the mix for some of those recruits in 2018. I think there's merit to both sides of the argument. I do think 2018 Nick Saban would lose out on some recruits to OSU and ND and perhaps even Michigan but I do think he'd would be winning more of those recruiting battles now that he's established himself as the GOAT.

If saban came back to MSU, the talent would flock there and he'd be playing in the NC within a few years, yes.

Rocinante wrote:If saban came back to MSU, the talent would flock there and he'd be playing in the NC within a few years, yes.

One other selling point Saban would have at this point he has the unbelievable track record of putting talent into the NFL. That alone is a huge selling point to recruits that I haven't seen raised in this thread.

Rocinante wrote:If saban came back to MSU, the talent would flock there and he'd be playing in the NC within a few years, yes.

Funny, I heard the same argument from Michigan slappies about Harbaugh.

Your first mistake is putting harbaugh and saban in the same category or atmosphere. Your second mistake is even allowing Michigan slappies to have a place in your mind.

steveschneider wrote:

Rocinante wrote:If saban came back to MSU, the talent would flock there and he'd be playing in the NC within a few years, yes.

One other selling point Saban would have at this point he has the unbelievable track record of putting talent into the NFL. That alone is a huge selling point to recruits that I haven't seen raised in this thread.

Of course he has a great record putting kids into the NFL - it's not hard when essentially all of your recruits are 4 and 5 star kids.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Your first mistake is putting harbaugh and saban in the same category or atmosphere. Your second mistake is even allowing Michigan slappies to have a place in your mind.

I realized this before I posted. It is the concept I am challenging.

People often argue that talent will flock to school because of a new coach. In reality it does not happen. I remember when people thought Charlie Weis would draw unbelievable talent at ND when he "flashed his super bowl rings."

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Your first mistake is putting harbaugh and saban in the same category or atmosphere. Your second mistake is even allowing Michigan slappies to have a place in your mind.

ya ever wonder how much weather plays into it??

I grew up down south and, in general, people down there wonder how the hell anyone could live in Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, etc from about November through March.

I sometimes think that coaches in the south use that against Ohio State, Michigan, MSU - not that we don't get a few kids from Florida, etc. every now and then - but I can see recruiters at Miami, Bama, Georgia, Auburn, LSU, etc. asking a 17 year old "have you ever spent a January in Ann Arbor? East Lansing? Columbus?"..

I just wonder how much our climate is used against northern schools.